Malekith, Eternity King too strong?

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Remydon
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Malekith, Eternity King too strong?

Post by Remydon »

I played a 4000 pt. game against the undead legions last night with a friend, we had agreed to do a Malekith vs Nagash fight. Seemed fair, since both are 1000 pts.

But it seems Malekith is just way too powerful even for that point value. Turn one his ability to move a friendly unit 20' had a Witch Elf / Cauldron deathstar 4" from my opponent's front lines, and in the magic phase Malekith easily pulled off the endtimes Shadow spell on 3 dice to put a unit of 15 cold one knights immediately behind his deathstar for a rear charge. The remainder of the power dice enabled the level 4 Life mage in the witches unit get off throne of vines and flesh to stone so that they survived the subsequent shooting from his army with minimal losses.

Sure, Nagash could summon 300 points of reinforcements per turn, but the sheer positioning advantage Malekith provides, let alone his beastliness in combat, ended the game on turn 1 effectively. His primary fighting unit of grave guard was dual charged front and rear by Malekith, a witch star, and 15 cold one knights. The next turn, Nagash, who had been charged by a manticore master, found himself in an unexpected combat with Malekith after Malekith switched himself with the manticore via the shadow lore attribute; Nagash died on round 2 as well.

I don't know if he was just using Nagash improperly, or if his complaint that Malekith is way too much is legit, but I don't know what I would have done differently in his shoes. His one questionable move was getting in the charge arc of that Manticore, but the only other option was to risk getting over-run charged by the witches and/or Malekith. Needless to say, he doesn't have much interest in any more matchups like that in the near future.

What are your experiences using the Eternity King variant?
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Re: Malekith, Eternity King too strong?

Post by Thraundil »

Well, I never used him, but we had a tournament last weekend where End times lists where allowed. The special chars where heavily comped: taking Malekith, you could not include: other characters at all, any fast cav, any bolt throwers or any flying units.

Only one guy brought Malekith. The rest of his army where darkshards and shades. He won the tournament. Because Malekith pretty much raped the opposing armies single handed.

So yeah. Malekith is broken. But then, all the end times characters are broken in their own way. But Malekith is just. Ugh to have on the table :P
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Re: Malekith, Eternity King too strong?

Post by T.D. »

Thraundil wrote:Only one guy brought Malekith. The rest of his army where darkshards and shades. He won the tournament. Because Malekith pretty much raped the opposing armies single handed.

So yeah. Malekith is broken. But then, all the end times characters are broken in their own way. But Malekith is just. Ugh to have on the table :P


Malekith approves of this state of affairs :twisted:
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Saintofm
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Re: Malekith, Eternity King too strong?

Post by Saintofm »

Thraundil wrote:Well, I never used him, but we had a tournament last weekend where End times lists where allowed. The special chars where heavily comped: taking Malekith, you could not include: other characters at all, any fast cav, any bolt throwers or any flying units.

Only one guy brought Malekith. The rest of his army where darkshards and shades. He won the tournament. Because Malekith pretty much raped the opposing armies single handed.

So yeah. Malekith is broken. But then, all the end times characters are broken in their own way. But Malekith is just. Ugh to have on the table :P


You know how we had a couple fun list threads of Druchii themed Skippy's list and you know it will be a long game when...?

Yeah we can have this on the top of a new one: You know your an asshole in Warhammer When...You Bring Malekith in a Storm of Magic or End of Times game.
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Thraundil
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Re: Malekith, Eternity King too strong?

Post by Thraundil »

Yep!
Difference between coming to a tournament to have fun, and coming to a tournament to win, I guess.

What really bothered me about it, though, was the fact that the tournament arrangers explicitly said you had to use the correct malekith model. And thats why I didnt bring Malekith. But this guy - he used an alternate model. And got away with it. I should have won that shiz :p
Name: Ladry (female)
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Killerk
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Re: Malekith, Eternity King too strong?

Post by Killerk »

Well the way I see it, your opponent lost the game by deploying terribly. Like most games are lost by bad positioning of units.
So Malekith isn't the problem but your opponents bad judgment, as he failed to factor in the superiority in the movement phase of the elves.

All EoT SC are idiotic good. But allowing your opponent play to his strengths and allowing him exploit your weaknesses is the players fault. But it's easier to cry cheeses then to admit you failed at something.

I remember a game vs lizzies vs my WoC where my opponent deploys with out looking at my army. He lost the initiative roll and turn one his army is surrounded in his deployment zone. As my army was made up of fast.units and fliers. He looked at the table shook my hand and said "good game". Same situation and I didn't have any SC charachters. We played my next turn and he had a unit of fleeing skinks on the table and a surrounded slan.
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Saintofm
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Re: Malekith, Eternity King too strong?

Post by Saintofm »

Thraundil wrote:Yep!
Difference between coming to a tournament to have fun, and coming to a tournament to win, I guess.

What really bothered me about it, though, was the fact that the tournament arrangers explicitly said you had to use the correct malekith model. And thats why I didnt bring Malekith. But this guy - he used an alternate model. And got away with it. I should have won that shiz :p



Alternative as in old Metal Archon alternative for Malekeith on foot?Details,details, give me details (this is out of curiosity)

Killerk wrote:
Well the way I see it, your opponent lost the game by deploying terribly. Like most games are lost by bad positioning of units.
So Malekith isn't the problem but your opponents bad judgment, as he failed to factor in the superiority in the movement phase of the elves.

All EoT SC are idiotic good. But allowing your opponent play to his strengths and allowing him exploit your weaknesses is the players fault. But it's easier to cry cheeses then to admit you failed at something.

I remember a game vs lizzies vs my WoC where my opponent deploys with out looking at my army. He lost the initiative roll and turn one his army is surrounded in his deployment zone. As my army was made up of fast.units and fliers. He looked at the table shook my hand and said "good game". Same situation and I didn't have any SC charachters. We played my next turn and he had a unit of fleeing skinks on the table and a surrounded slan.


Agreed. THey may have a few extra bits to their abilities and armaments but like with driving a care: it can be the coolest care in the world but if you can't drive stick/automatic and the car is the thing you suck at driving then you're screwed.
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Thraundil
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Re: Malekith, Eternity King too strong?

Post by Thraundil »

He used a dragon, dont know where from, older model I think. On top was a half naked guy with a whip. Not very Malekith-esque.
Name: Ladry (female)
Class: Mage (Pyromancer)
Equipment: Staff, longsword, dagger, 20 gold, insignia ring.
Skills: Power of Aqshy (2), defensive figthing
WS4, S2, T3, D4, I6.
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van Awful
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Re: Malekith, Eternity King too strong?

Post by van Awful »

:twisted: finally living up to his fluff then?

Seriously though, i would like to try him ,just for shiz and giggles, which most of my games are anyway.
But since my main opponent plays brets, dwarfs, OnG and ogres (poor bastard). Playing End time armies put him in a disadvantage enough without the eternity king.
I think ill sooner give the phoenix king a go, as his host is way more limited but is a nice way to see how some asrai units work out as i have no experience with them what so ever.
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Re: Malekith, Eternity King too strong?

Post by Makiwara »

I proxied him in a friendly game against a friend of a friend playing Empire and loved it, the maneuverability you get out of having him there is ridiculous and you really can be fearless with cannons. He got some borrowed Silver Helms into the back field, shielded Naestra and Arahan for the first two turns and allowed my blender Swordmaster unit to get away from his Demigryphs and into some greatswords. Uber fun to mess with straight battlelines!
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Re: Malekith, Eternity King too strong?

Post by TheSupremePatriarch »

I'd have loved to take Malekith in some games but the problem I have, and the guys at my meta spotted this straight away, is with ET magic going up against someone who has the Lore of Metal, Malekith just gets taken off the table by the signature spell. D6 wounds, wounding on his armour save of 3+ (or is 2+, can't remember) and he gets no ward against it. No one at my meta takes metal but if you say you're bringing in Eternity King chances are your opponent may decide to switch to it
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Re: Malekith, Eternity King too strong?

Post by Ming »

Mally should be able to withstand 2 or 3 such spells before poppin' out.
And the opponent must be able to force them through your impressive dispelling abilities.... (5th level sorceror)
But it's true that spells are his weak point
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Re: Malekith, Eternity King too strong?

Post by TheSupremePatriarch »

thing is if they have 2 metal wizards on the board, then searing doom will get through, with ET magic they get 4D6 power dice. After putting a 1k model on the board, I'd hate to see him go down because of the signature spell being cast by a level 1 Metal Wizard
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Re: Malekith, Eternity King too strong?

Post by Haagrum »

TheSupremePatriarch wrote:thing is if they have 2 metal wizards on the board, then searing doom will get through, with ET magic they get 4D6 power dice. After putting a 1k model on the board, I'd hate to see him go down because of the signature spell being cast by a level 1 Metal Wizard


With ET magic rules, there's a good chance that a level 1 wizard won't be able to cast that spell successfully. All it takes is one failed casting roll (remember, they get D6 dice to cast with, randomly determined each time they attempt the spell) and no-one is allowed to re-try that spell for the rest of the turn. They also can't attempt to cast the boosted version more than once per magic phase. Prioritise the dispel dice/scrolls on those attempts which are successful

After turn 1, Malekith should ideally be in combat with something, a situation that renders Searing Doom utterly useless against him. In the meantime, you can focus on killing the enemy wizards. I agree that it's an option to take down the Eternity King (treasonous though such discussions may be), but that we have plenty of options to prevent it from happening.
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Re: Malekith, Eternity King too strong?

Post by Persuader »

Hey,

Played a 3k game today, against a beastmen heavy legions of chaos list with DP, 4 chariots, 2x7 Khorne knights, 2x3 Skullcrushers, etc

Magic did put alot of preasure on him, 1+AS's as well. Still only S6 & not unbreakable. the DP with 1+AS and 5+ward (4++ most of the time) was scary as well.
But magic is really is main weakness.

But in the end we both thought it was fairly balanced. 1/3th of your points in one character is nothing to sneeze at.

Fun battle, although the magic phase can really frig your day up.
Have to get some more games in with him.


Finally he has the rules he deserves :P
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Re: Malekith, Eternity King too strong?

Post by T.D. »

Persuader wrote:Finally he has the rules he deserves :P


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