Sisters of slaughter vs phineox guard

[Fleebo]

What are any ones views of SS vs PG

[Demetrius]

The Sisters win.

[Red...]

Fairly even match up.
- Both get a 4+ ward
- Sisters have a 6+ armour save, Phoenix Guard have a 5+ save
- Sisters have WS6, Phoenix Guard have WS5
- Sisters have murderess prowess, Phoenix Guard do not
- Both have ASF
- Sisters have an ability that improves their to hit and to damage rolls. However, I don't think it kicks in against PG
- Consequently, PG are S3(4) while Sisters are S3
- Sisters negate rank bonuses

Biggest challenge, though, is that the Sisters may get shot to ribbons before reaching combat. I don't have the Army Book with me, but I think they either cost the same per model or Sisters cost a little more?

[Fleebo]

I have this all ready to play out in a game I have going on the PG have just charged me ,
Only down side Is they are 40 strong 4 rows of ten
Where as my SS are only 23strong now I started 3rows of 8 , I just hope I can hold out as in my next turn there is a unit of black guard with malikith on black dragon close by I hope to cast pod on his unit too give the +1 S and really screw up there day

[Demetrius]

Red- Sisters also have an extra attack and hatred over PG, which obviously makes a big difference. Both units do cost the same.

Both units should have the razor standard, so the sisters arent getting an armour save and the PG is only 6+.

Say the unit sizes are 20 with FC and Razor, exactly the same cost. PG go 5 wide because of Martial Prowess, sisters probably go 7 wide to maximise attacks.

Sisters- 22 Attacks on 3s with rerolls, wounding on 4's rerolling 1's. PG gets 6+/4++.

PG- 16 Attacks on 4's, wounding on 3's. Sisters get a 4++.

[Thraundil]

PG are S3+1 so sisters wouldnt get armor to begin with.

If we take Fleebo's situation.

40 PG in horde vs 8 wide sisters gets full throttle, 40 attacks. 20 hits. 13 wounds. 6,5 casualties inflicted. Lets call that 7.

23 Sisters knock out 31 attacks, 27,5 hits, 16,8 wounds, 7 casualties inflicted, assuming sisters has razor. 5,6 casualties if they dont. Call it 6.

PG Combat res: 7 kills + banner + charge = 9.
Sisters combat res: 6 kills + banner + rank = 8. Or, if they do have razor standard, its a 9 also.

So on average rolls, if you gave the sisters a razor standard, you tie combat. If you didnt, you will lose ever so slightly. But keep in mind this is average: dice may be with him or even with you. In either case, when you charge either Malekith or the black guard into the fray, you should win combat handily. Just keep in mind: Malekith on a dragon cannot cast power of darkness on other units. The spell targets the caster + any unit he/she is in. And a dragon cant join units.

[Lord Drakon]

Replace the 13 sisters for a Bloodwrack Shrine, deploy them in Shrine of Slaughter formation and you break that unit of 40 PG on the charge Phoenix Guard does not have enough attacks to overcome the - 4 static combat resolution when charged + kills from impact hits, medusa, shrinekeepers and sisters.

[Daeron]

Hm. Interesting theory game

SOS, round 1:

4 wounds is the most likely outcome.

PG, round 1:

6-7 wounds are the most likely outcomes.

Round 2 gets messier as the SoS lose hatred. I would reform the unit at the end of round 1 to 12 wide and upgrade the number of attacks to 29-30-ish.
SOS, round 2:

PG, round 2:


Ultimately, the SoS will get squashed, but perhaps they can survive long enough.

[Fleebo]

The PG have caradon in it so am I right in saying the SS will get the +1 to hit and too wound witch would change them odds slightly yes

[Thraundil]

The PG have caradon in it so am I right in saying the SS will get the +1 to hit and too wound witch would change them odds slightly yes

Woop! Yes, that would change the odds dramatically. Sisters will now hit on 2+ and wound on 3+ rerolling all 1's.

@Daeron: in my calculation above I completely forgot the 7 sisters in the third rank will not be able to strike so it seems the sisters are likely to lose combat. But with the 2+ / 3+ we're looking at

24 attacks, 23,33 hits, ~18 wounds, and assuming no razor: 6 cas. If razor, we're looking at 7,5 wounds. So decent chance to actually tie now. Loss of hatred, but the added black guard + malekith charges, should see you beat the phoenix guard. And if BG have more ranks than his unit, you can also run them down straight up.

[T.D.]

Point-for-point Phoenix Guard are a much better all round choice. 4++/3++ vs Cannonballs, Artillery, Massed Fire

Although this is not a strictly fair comparison as Sisters are a special shieldwall breaking infantry rather than a Halberdier. Lord Drakon also made a really good point about improving both their resilience and offence with the Shrine.

[Fleebo]

Why is it the shrine makes so much difference .

Would the shrine deal with big hoards too ?

And if I was to start taking the shrine how many SS would you put in the unit and in ranks of what ?

[Fleebo]

And yes the razor banner is in that unit