Brutal List (very magic heavy)

Lord hajjij · Post by **Lord hajjij** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:59 am

Posted this in a few other forums, wanted to see the reaction from non-Druchii players. I don't think its that bad honestly, but the reaction to the list has been very negative so far. "Gunline" and "Points Denial" are 2 words that spring up in people's critique. :cry:

Anyway, the basic idea behind this army is to control the opponent thru magic, shooting, and psychology; then hit the unsupported pieces with my combat troops. I was told to tune it down on another forum...I'm going to post the original list and if you think it is a terrible ( :twisted:

) as they did I'll post my revised list and we can look at that. Without further ado:

High Sorceress lvl4
hw, tome of furion, wand of the kharaidon, heartstone of darkness, manticore

Sorceress, lvl2
hw, darkstar cloak, dispel scroll

Sorceress, lvl2
deathmask, dark steed

Noble BSB
ha, sdc, dark steed, warbanner

13 Warriors
sh, rxb, lordling

13 Warriors
sh, rxb, lordling

10 Warriors
rxb

5 Dark Riders
std

5 Dark Riders
rxb

5 Cold One Knights
std, standard of slaughter

5 Harpies

5 Shades

RBT
RBT

Ok. So basically, the BSB joins either the Cold One Knights (+4-6 CR from banners) or the bannered dark riders depending on the opponent. I then maneuver my sorceresses and march blockers into position while I blast support units away with my shooting, control their main line units with my magic, and spread terror as much as possible. At this point I will coordinate a charge with my big CR generators on the remainder of his army, and break his back, so to speak. :twisted:

This army relies heavily on the game-controlling nature of Dark Magic. I can't remember who first said this, I think it was Underway a long time ago, but that phrase has stood with me my whole warhammer career. While Slaanesh is arguable better, Dark Magic is no slouch with such spells as chillwind, WoP, Dominion, and the panic spreading ability of Black Horror. Also, both shadow and death magic have gotten considerably better in 7th. Doom and Darkness, for example, is nasty when combined with Terror, as is Drain Life.

Lets say Im going against a dragon lord in a game. I will endeavour to either "lock down" the biggest parts of his army (read: dragon), while shooting the support units like fast cav, missle units, giants, mages, whatever; then crushing the dragon with a charge from my CoK (after throwing a WoP on the rider of course :twisted:

) and hopefully beating and breaking/killing it, as it is unsupported.

Yes I know it is magic heavy. Yes I know it is shooting heavy. But I dont think it is a gunline, and it is very very fragile. What do you think, would you mind facing this?

Tethlis · Post by **Tethlis** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:07 am

I think it's an excellent list in several regards. You're not focusing on a single trick or gimmick in order to win, have plenty of points invested in core choices, and you're not even using all your special or rare choices.

An army with a theme or strategy is not necessarily an unfair list. Compared with Skaven SAD, your firepower and magic is relatively light and your numbers relatively few. None of your units are incredibly difficult to counter or destroy. I would enjoy playing against this list with my Asrai or CoS.

Arisos · Post by **Arisos** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:25 am

Only thing I would change is dropping the standard on the one dark rider unit and use the points for musician on both units.

It's quite shooty and heavy in magic.
Toning down the shooty bit could help for cheese callers:)

First thing that pops in my mind is a Hydra instead of some shooting to balance it a bit.

I don't think it is a terrible army, but I don't play you, so if the majority of your opponents shouts Cheese, it could be wise to change the list.
Better to have opponents and toning your list a bit down, then having no opponents with a themed list.
But that's your decision to make:P

Good luck

Xerasi · Post by **Xerasi** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:47 am

I like it's overall feel, but find that you could easily be facing several problems, mainly if you don't get dominion you seem to have a problem (as it looked a lot of your stratergy was around that spell.

I see how the list is effective, but I think it would work better with two chariots insteed of the CoK unit. Just to have more hitting power, and spread it out more.

Uoh, oversaw your manticore, so just wanted to say that I like it, and I'd suggest placing a nice Web of shadows on her.
I'd do it by droping the deathmask, giving that sorc the wand, and add the web to your manti sorc.

As a druchii player I wouldn't say it was point denial, but more point giveaway at first glance. It requires skill, luck, and is by no means points denial, you got a lot of points in "static" units, and a very lot of points in you HS. Points that are somewhat easily taken. Only thing that my gaming club would concider calling cheesy about it is points in chars. Maybe also that it is so magic heavy (or local turnies tend to be very strict on that point).

So if we go through the list on what a competitive druchii list is (if you at least hear what the trend tends to be): It'd not include a dragon lord, it'd not include 4 boltthrowers, it'd not include 8 CoCs. It wouldn't be magic maxed So I say you are fine. It would make an interesting and fun game I suppose, but it might just be my army.

Xerasi (who'd drop a lordling for the DR musos, a std on them is great, and with the bsb in they are an evil unit)

Firestart345 · Post by **Firestart345** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:25 am

Looks fine to me.

mainly if you don't get dominion you seem to have a problem (as it looked a lot of your stratergy was around that spell.

How can he not get it if he has the tome?

I think the list looks alright, but i dont think a unit of COK's is gunna take down a chaos lord on dragon anytime soon. I'd rather just destroy all the other stuff and keep the dragon out of the game.

Seanzala · Post by **Seanzala** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:14 am

With a 5/6 chance and two 2/6 chances, you will probably get the spell. You have a 93.6% chance if my calculations are correct. I don't think the list is really all that bad if you ask me. Definately nothing compared to SAD and others, but worse than other Druchii lists.

Sean

Lord hajjij · Post by **Lord hajjij** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:19 pm

Thanks for the responses guys.

@X: dominion is probably the most important spell for this list but if I dont get it i can simply switch up the strat. Like I said the new death and shadow lores are pretty good, so against certain armies I might pick a lore more suited to playing that army. For example against woodies I might take death on my high sorceress and try and just blast away the dryads, as I really have nothing that can deal with them besides magic. Or against lizardmen, I might be tempted to take shadows and try and get Pit of Shades, because they have very low I. So I guess I worded my post wrong...what I am trying to do is use magic as my "hammer unit" so to speak. Now this isn't the smartest thing because as we know magic is very fickle in this game; however, I've been playing with my static CR, VP denial army for a long time now and its time to switch it up.

Oh, and I think I need the deathmask, at least unless I drop some stuff for a hydra. I really want his entire army to have to be subject to a terror test, and it could really help if I put my sorceress in a unit of dark riders for a turn to make sure they pass their terror/fear test.

arisos wrote:I don't think it is a terrible army, but I don't play you, so if the majority of your opponents shouts Cheese, it could be wise to change the list.
Better to have opponents and toning your list a bit down, then having no opponents with a themed list.
But that's your decision to make:P

Thanks for the feedback. In fact my more 'toned down version' includes a hydra and some executioners and gets rid of a RBT and a unit of RXB elves (basically). I just don't think its that bad because it doesn't strive to just blow you away with extreme predjudice. The shooting is designed to take down your support units (fast cav, flyers, skirmishers, large baddies like giants, minotaurs/ushabti/treekin, and shooting units) quickly so I can dominate the movement phase. Its not a dwarf artillery castle that just points organ guns/thunderers/stonethrowers at your largest, most expensive unit, and blows it totally out of the water in 2 turns. Its not skaven SAD that has 4 ratling guns 20 jezzails 3 warlocks and 2 WLCs backed up with 6 fully ranked units and a ld10 warlord. Its not empire STANK complete with Gryphon bannered swordsmen, Grand templar in unit of IC knights with laurels of victory backed up by 6 units of handgunners, 3 cannons and a helblaster. At least, I don't think it is.

Tethlis wrote:I think it's an excellent list in several regards. You're not focusing on a single trick or gimmick in order to win, have plenty of points invested in core choices, and you're not even using all your special or rare choices.

An army with a theme or strategy is not necessarily an unfair list. Compared with Skaven SAD, your firepower and magic is relatively light and your numbers relatively few. None of your units are incredibly difficult to counter or destroy. I would enjoy playing against this list with my Asrai or CoS.

Thanks for the feedback. Both of those armies would be a tactical challenge for mine for sure! I actually had wood elves in mind when I created this army, and heavy dark vs slaanesh would be an interesting battle to say the least

God I F*****G hate wood elves :roll:

firestart345 wrote:I think the list looks alright, but i dont think a unit of COK's is gunna take down a chaos lord on dragon anytime soon. I'd rather just destroy all the other stuff and keep the dragon out of the game.

That may be the case, unless I can hit said chaos lord with a Word of Pain, and Doom and Darkness :twisted:

...a charge from +4-6 CR generating Cold One Knights (hopefully will give me outnumbering) when the lord and dragon are striking back on 5's should hopefully win me combat. Like I said, it depends on the opponent.

@sean: Thanks for the feedback. What do you mean "worse" than other Druchii lists? Just more frustrating to play against?

Xerasi · Post by **Xerasi** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:53 pm

It's not only getting dominion, scrolls can be a problem if used correctly, and with a lvl 2 having dominion, you are not shure to get it off when you need it...

But I understand that you (Hajjij) see this problem, it was more pointing it out that it could be a problem.

I'm very satisfied that at least one member of this site (I know there are more, but except it, we are the minority) chooses lore according to table and army faced.

Get a game and write us a report, so we know how it works

Xerasi

Joew · Post by **Joew** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:39 am

I really like this army list, it's very well designed and should be lots of fun to play with and against.
One army that I see giving you headaches is a dwarf horde army (seem to have become popular, with >125 dwarfs at 2000 pts). Against these types of armies, the problem becomes killing enough dwarfs to have an impact; MSU is sometimes limited by oathstones and the rune of challenge (forces a enemy unit to charge), and missile fire can take its toll on the army. In this situation you may find yourself relying heavily upon magic (probably shadows lore), which can backfire with the new miscast table. Of course, there aren't all that many armies that can really handle a horde dwarf army in a straight up pitched battle easily !frown!