1000 pts Campaign list

[Omnichron]

Hello everyone.
Have checked this site for over a year now, and have learned alot from all of you guys both new and old to the Dark Elves. Now I thought it was about time to register, and join the ranks of dark generals.

Christmas draws near, and when it comes, I will be back to my hometown with all my friends and start a campaign where we will each have 2 armies of 1000 points each. My enemies will be Dwarves, Orc & Goblins and Tomb Kings. I've been creating lots of army lists for myself over the year and a half I've played dark elves, and thought I would try something different than the others styles I've tried... The army list I had in mind goes like this:

Dark elf Noble: 129 pts
Hearthstone of Darkness, heavy armor, cloak, greatsword.

Dark elf Noble: 109 pts
Seal of Ghrond, heavy armor, cloak, greatsword

Sorceress: 140 pts
lvl 1, 2 Dispel Scrolls

Core:

24 Warriors: 212 pts
Shield, Banner, Lordling

24 Warriors: 212 pts
Shield, Banner, Lordling

Special:
2 Cold one Chariots: 190 pts

Total: 992 pts.

When I began making the army, my idea was to have 2 large groups of warriors with 2 nobles in each, and to have 2 chariots to support them. I also felt I had to have a caddie to dispel magic if I met a heavy magic army... After some thought, I've begin to wonder if the heroes wouldn't be excellent in the chariots instead... What do you think? I haven't even used chariots before, and I really wanted to give it a try this time.

Now, I know that the list has some weaknesses. It's not as fast and manouverable as most dark elf generals would want, and I am used to having the upper hand in the magic phases... however, I hope that the 2 large squads of warriors will be a hard nut to break at 1000 points.

Anyways, what do you think of the list? Do you think it will work? What modifications would improve the list?

All responses are welcome

[Harabec]

Well if you want to play an army in this still, thats fine. In this case I would definetly have the nobles in the chariots. That way they are both have the vital US5 and can be used for flanks and rank negation, as well as hitting power.
Also remeber that wit the 5 wide rule your 24 man warriors will be odd ranked.

[Daeron]

Indeed, 24 may not be the most efficient size for a unit. Other than that I fear your list may suffer from a lack of mobility and support. Personally... in a 1K game I'd take a unit or two that's faster (like Harpies, Shades, DR's). The enemies you will face have a lot of large blocks and I fear simple warriors lack the punch to beat them, even with a noble. You need some support to break a unit fast. Dwarves are so hard to beat in combat your noble will not make the difference. With Tomb Kings imagine a warrior block caught in a fight with a skeleton block; you will not be able to use that unit for the remainder of the battle without good flanking support. Well anyways.... I strongly suggest you get a DR unit in the list. Either by replacing a chariot, or dropping a warrior block for a DR unit and perhaps some Shades or Harpies? In 7th edition, if a unit breaks and flees into an enemy unit, they are destroyed. It would thus be a good idea to charge an infantry block in front and flank and place Shades, DR's, Harpies behind the enemy unit.

[Omnichron]

The reason for the uneven blocks of warriors was both the points left and the number of men I would have with a noble in each (5x5). Aalso, there will always be losses, and the extra warriors would make them more likely to stay in the battle longer... on the other hand, I could do with more units and I agree that the army list lacks speed. Therefore I've changed the list a little:

Dark elf Noble: 129 pts
Hearthstone of Darkness, heavy armor, cloak, greatsword. On Chariot

Dark elf Noble: 109 pts
Seal of Ghrond, heavy armor, cloak, greatsword . On Chariot

Sorceress: 140 pts
lvl 1, 2 Dispel Scrolls

Core:

20 Warriors: 180 pts
Shield, Banner, Lordling

7 Dark Riders: 168 pts
RxB

Special:
2 Cold one Chariots: 190 pts

6 Shades: 84pts

Total: 1000 pts.

I lost one of the warrior blocks, and turned the other down to 20 warriors. I'm kinda afraid that if I loose the last warrior block, I might be in big trouble... however, with the shades and DR's, I now got the mobility on my side. Maybe I should remove the shade group and instead have 2 groups of 5 DR's instead?

[Seanzala]

I think that the second list is definately better. The faster units give you much more flexibility in thhe army, and the loss of the second warrior unit shouldn't be too much of a worry.

Sean

[Harabec]

I like the second list alot better as well. As mention, now you will have the added manouvrability, and the pair of noble mounted chariots can add alot of punch inot 1000 point lists.

Personally I would normally wouldn't have 3 characters in 1K. This setup is decent but if you could have 1 empty chariot and then changed the noble in for some more DR or warriors. Just a thought.

[Mpdscott]

Also remeber that wit the 5 wide rule your 24 man warriors will be odd ranked.

Actually that's not true.
Mathematically speaking, 24 is a much more flexible number than anything of a similar size.
With 24 soldiers, you can rank them up neatly in 6x4, 8x3 or even 12x2 if you wanted. Then there's uneven rankings that give you 5x5 (minus 1, or plus a character), 7x3 (plus 3 spares) or 9x3 (minus 3).
Admittedly there are issues with each of these formations, but in each you gain the 5 wide ranking, and if you're using spears, the second rank's attacks.
A wide formation also has it's uses in controlling terrain.
Of course this may not be as functional in practise as it is in theory, but that sort of flexibility can be abused by a smart general.

[Seanzala]

mpdscott is right about the number. I used to field a unit of 24 Empire Halberdiers and they worked a treat in most battles. Spearmen would probably work even better.

Sean

[Omnichron]

Thanks for the help everyone. Will try the second list, and will think about loosing one noble for more men. I've always enjoyed having plenty of men and units in battles...

As for the numbers of a unit, I think that most will try to keep it at 5x4 (for the ranks ofc), however I've also enjoyed using 6x4 before. Wider line against other units means more attacks (most of the time), and might be the difference between a loss or a win in a fight.

[Daeron]

The second list looks better. A point to consider (though not necessary) is that you have both SoG and a Scroll Caddy. For 1K battles that is a lot of points in magic defense! True, against TK that will come in handy, but for the same price you can either buy a unit of RxB warriors, another DR unit or harpies. Keep in mind that the DR or harpye unit, with their speed and agility, should be capable of quickly assassinating at least one Liche Priest/Shaman. Against non-magic enemies it still has some combat value. Well.. if you have the time, try it out Good luck!

[Omnichron]

Hmm, I agree with you that I got lots of anti-magic for those points, and most likely I will only have use for it against the TK...

If I should take away one of them, who would you recommend? I kinda wanted 2 heroes for that nice extra punch in CC, so my first thought I had was to remove the sorceress. The question then is whether SoG alone is enough to stop magic (long enough for others to kill the magicians at least)...

If not, the other option would probably to remove the hero and take SoG instead of a dispel scroll...


I've also been thinking about my second army. I got Mengil Manflayers, and kinda wanted to use them, but they cost alot for a 1k list... Also, as this game is about having fun, they might make the game less enjoyable for the others when they have such a hard time taking them down while the manflayers themselves kill my friends armies... What experiences have you had with mengil manflayers?

[Dancingpigeon]

Keep in mind, you are playing a campaign, and one of your opponents will Dwarves... so in that matchup your caddy is going to be a massive sink in such small games (you'll be playing 850 to his full 1000). I'd do one of 2 things. Either a) Drop the sorceress and take the SoG, or b) Drop a noble, give the Sorceress the Darkstar Cloak, Extra Level and a Dark steed and use her offensively.

If you take option a, you will have plenty of spare points for another unit. Try a 13 strong unit of RXB Warriors w/ shields. Against Tomb Kings, 3 dice in 1000pts is plenty, as in 1000pts the TK player is limited to one of 2 things. Either he is taking two priests, and won't have many troops, or he is taking one priest, in which case he doesn't have many spells. In either case, save your dice for any movement spells, and keep an eye out for the Hieratic Jar....

If you take the second option, you will have a very powerful magic phase for 1000pts. 5 power dice and +1 to cast is extremely powerful in low point games, and Dark and Death are very powerful Lores. Of course, you lose the hitting power of a second noble, but you gain the ability to put up a strong magic defense and offense- allowing your list to fully function in almost all facets of the game (You lack psychology, shooting is a little weak, but passable).

Oh, and one last thing- You better off giving your noble a halberd if he's on the chariot. The GW will deny him his awesome Initiative, with the only advantage being in the case of his chariot exploding...

[Daeron]

Well... I totally agree with DancingPigeon here. There is little I can add to it but "Yeah, go either A or B".
* takes pop corn and waits in suspense to see which will be Omnichron's next move *

[Omnichron]

Hehe, you got some good points there DancingPigeon and Daeron. After some consideration, I felt my dark blood stir, and yet again it seems that I make another army with aggresive tactics in mind. The army at the moment looks like this now:

Noble: 129 pts
Hearthstone of Darkness, heavy armor, cloak, halberd, on Chariot.

Sorceress: 192 pts
Lvl 2, Darkstar cloak, Lifetaker, on Dark Steed.

Core:
20 Warriors: 180 pts
Shield, Banner and Lordling.

5 Dark Riders: 120 pts
RxB

5 Dark Riders: 120 pts
RxB

Special:
2 Chariots: 190 pts

5 Shades: 70 pts

Total: 1001 pts

I went for the sorceress to fill the gaps in the list so far. I chose the darkstar cloak and also the Lifetaker. It kinda made her expensive, but together with the dark riders, it can prove a deadly combination... I hope

As you also see, with the points I had left, I formed another Dark Rider squad. Can't have enough of those really... Oh, and I changed from GW to halberd too... You are right about the initiative... been kinda boring to see my GW wielding noble hacked to pieces earlier because he hit last...

[Sulam]

Persoanlly I often find out that spear warriors will not be hard hitting enough to act as a main block. A simpel option to solve this are executioners. Since you already have 2 core choices I suggest to swap the warrior block for an executioner block.

It'll be something like this:

Noble
ha,sdc,shield,halberd, rides chariot -86
(Dropped the HSOD, he already has a wonderfull armour save.)

Sorceress
lvl2, dsc, scroll, ds
(I played a tournament battle vs tomb kings and found that 3 dd was just too less. The option to dispell a spell for sure is worth 25 IMo)

5 DR -97
dropped rxb to get points, added musician to make this an excellent bait unit and make it more relyable in close combat.

5 Dr 127
rxb, mus

2 chariots -190
5 shades- 70
20 executioners -244
sb, draich-master
-lovely.=D hit hard, equal ermour, offensive, six S5 killing blow attacks. they also have better defense against TK and goblins (ws2) and you can hit dwarves on 3+, rather than the 4+ roll warriors would need.
Total: 1001 points

This way you ahve an extremely hard-hitting flexible an fast force, with magic offensive as well as defensive elements.

Sulam

*edit* If you are absolutely not allowd to field more than 1000 points, drop the DR mus and get a mus ont he executioners.

[As'fallion]

I think you are forgetting too much about any ranged attacks. An Reaper Bolt Thrower can in two shots, if you're lucky, kill a giant. This useful against orcs & Goblins as they need big monsters to pack the punch

[Sulam]

If you would like to be more shooty a simple way to archieve this is wapping a chariot and a musician for a RBT. It's just what you prefer to field.

Sulam

[Dancingpigeon]

I'd consider dropping the Lifetaker for either the Seal or Scroll.

Against Dwarves, Lifetaker is very limited, as it only S3 against T4... even with the re-roll they still get a 4+ save. Against the other matchups, the Seal and Scroll will enable you to completely limit their magic phase. Its up to you, but if it were me I'd go for the security of the Seal.

I can also understand you taking the Hearstone, but I'm not sure if its totally necessary. Keep it for now, but consider swapping it for something else after a few games.

[As'fallion]

Another famous as'Fallion shooting idea:

Choose the army list: City Garison
You can have shooters in the front rank of your spear formation which means you can haras O&G until they come close enough. If the charge you can try shooting them down hopefuly making them run before they attack. If they charge succesfully you might loose your rxb warriors but your 2nd rank is still as capable as the first.

[Omnichron]

Great, lots of tips

Persoanlly I often find out that spear warriors will not be hard hitting enough to act as a main block. A simpel option to solve this are executioners. Since you already have 2 core choices I suggest to swap the warrior block for an executioner block.

Well, I never expect my warriors to do the damage in close combat really. That's what the chariots and lord is for. The executioners are great to kill off many types of units, if they get to charge. Otherwise, they die rather quick for my taste (as do warriors of course, but they are cheaper and can get 4+ save). I kinda like to have executioners hanging back so they might get a flank charge when my enemies get caught up in battle against my warriors... I think the warriors are good enough for their role...
I could drop the RxB's on one of the dark rider groups to make them a bait. On the other hand I like the idea of having 2 DR groups harassing units with RxB's... Gotta think that one through. As for the sorceress, I think you are right that some more anti magic might be needed.

I think you are forgetting too much about any ranged attacks. An Reaper Bolt Thrower can in two shots, if you're lucky, kill a giant. This useful against orcs & Goblins as they need big monsters to pack the punch

The RBT is great indeed. One of the best weapons there is imo. However, this list I kinda want to go more for the close combat variant. A giant will be a real challenge for the army so far though... Maybe my noble with hearthstone may kill him... probably not

I'd consider dropping the Lifetaker for either the Seal or Scroll.

Against Dwarves, Lifetaker is very limited, as it only S3 against T4... even with the re-roll they still get a 4+ save. Against the other matchups, the Seal and Scroll will enable you to completely limit their magic phase. Its up to you, but if it were me I'd go for the security of the Seal.

I can also understand you taking the Hearstone, but I'm not sure if its totally necessary. Keep it for now, but consider swapping it for something else after a few games.

You are probably right about the Lifetaker. A dispel scroll would be really nice... But I think I would rather go for the seal too.

The Hearthstone was probably most important when I had the greatsword... or if I have to use him to take down units with lots of strength or survive armor piercing... Hmm, I will probably keep it, but somehow I now want the greatsword back on him again to be able to take down high toughness (As he most probably will survive several attacks against him)



The shooty idea works quite nice most of the time. However, I find shooting less fun than a battle where both armies clash into each other with bloody outcome. THAT's what I enjoy the most!

I think I will keep the last list I made with some minor changes:
Exchaning Lifetaker for Seal. Maybe change back to greatsword on the noble again, or get rid of Hearthstone for something else... I also have to consider the RxB's on the dark rider squad... Always good to get some more men in the warrior or shade unit.

Hmm... how to take down a giant if I meet one?

[Dancingpigeon]

Keep the Heartstone for now- the reason I thought you were taking it was because if someone fires a cannon at your general's chariot, you want it to hit him, not the chariot- and if it hits him, he has a pretty decent chance of survival with the Heartstone.

If you're going to drop it, consider Crimson Death or the Draich of Dark Power. The DoDP is a little pricey, but very fun, especially when you take out the enemy general with it. With both of those items, you are paying premium for the extra Strength they grant over a Halberd or Great Weapon... but against T4 enemies (Orcs, Dwarves, Tomb Princes are T5) it can really pay off. If you don't want to pay that much for the extra Strength, you could try a Lance instead. That would free up the points you needed for the RXB's on the DR's.

Having said that, at 6pts a model, I find RXB's far to expensive for my tastes. I've had quite a bit of success running a unit of 6 DR's with a Noble w/Lance, Shield, HA, SDC and Dark Steed as a powerful flanking unit.

[As'fallion]

If you want a CC army then drop the heartsone... it's a nice thing but only works against 1 wound. This limits your survival greatly. Also the Giant, if you have a unit of CoKs they should be able to easily dispose of him, maybe not in first turn but i have experience with 1 + AS cavalary. My empire knights which are weaker managed to kill a giant and hold off 40 goobos at the same time (btw i had a banner that made them have double rank bonus so we outnumbered them). And if you put a noble in the with draich then the giant certainly won't be a problem.

[Dancingpigeon]

Fallion, you're thinking of the wrong Heartstone. Read the Storm of Chaos magic items again to see which one we're actually talking about (Not the Wood Elf one).

I wouldn't make any more changes to the list until you play some games. Theres only so far theoryhammer can go.

[Omnichron]

Yeah, it is time to test the list. Thanks for all the help guys. Might be some battle reports later

[Lord hajjij]

I've always been a fan of the triple noble on pegasus 1000pt army, but thats just me

Looks like a good, balanced list. Well done