2.000 points vs dwarves

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Malerun
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2.000 points vs dwarves

Post by Malerun »

So, here we go. I'm still a 7ed virgin so be gentle :D

My regular opponent are dwarwes and in 6ed it was a lot of trouble to defeat him or just avoiding being massacred. I think the new AB is some what better and dwarves now will make a tough but exciting matchup.

He castles pretty well, is pretty good at range guessing and moves his characters alot between units and war machines. In 2K he usually bring 2-3 conbat blocks, 2-3 shooting regiment and some war machines. General + BSB + perhaps another thane with some rune weapons. To harass me he uses a gyro and/or miners. He has lately aquired an Anvil and some slayers. So a reasonable competent dwarf general.

We try to play a little nice regarding composition especially characterwise. Not taking a dive, but trying to be reasonable, so Crone on a manti, Shadowblade and a master on manti and some assassins is out of the question

After having read the new AB and what I could find on the net regarding this matchup, my thoughts on cores are the following:

The killing power will have to come from the specials, as RxB will have problems wounding and regular WS4, S3 attacks will fail to do any significant damage to T4, AS3+ warriors, although corsairs with SSS should beat missile troops on regular basis. Core troops will have other uses, mainly static CR and shielding. Anything which helps wounding and avoiding armour saves is a must.

Magic against dwarves should either be all in or nothing at all. I'm leaning towards nothing as it would make me character heavy and
beating him by magic could make him field the Anvil, which I prefer stays out.

Specials:
I have devised the following hammers. Still don't know if I bring them all or if I use multiples of one of them. Is 15 a reasonable number assuming they hit the dwarven line together with some core blocks providing static CR?

15 Black Guard + Tower Master: Packs some punch but 4+ to wound and 4+ AS to the stunties makes these the weaker choice. Perhaps a Standard bearer + Dread Banner to autobreak working togegther with other units. They will prefer fighting missile troop, but Stubborn means hey can be used to stop a nasty dwarven unit. The Tower Master would get Crimson Death.

15 Witches + FC + Manbane + Banner of Murder: Will break any missile troop on the charge. The BoM and Manbane gives a decent chance should the be lured into a combart unit. If he fields Slayers, the girls will take care of them! They deliver more wounds than BG, so BoM is more effective here.

15 Executioners + Draichmaster: S4 + Great Weapons + Killing Blow means dead tin cans! WS4, T4, AS3+ dwarves are dropped 0,6 on the charge and a little under 0.5 per attack subsequent rounds. To utilize this to the max, the BSB with Hydra Banner goes here. Tullaris could be included for Fear.

With some more points I would grab some Cold One Knigths, but in 2K vs shooty dwarves, I'll fear they'll die before accomplishing anything and the rest of my stuff is cheaper/more redundant, so shooting will have lesser impact.

Special:

I plan to take 1 or 2 RBT. They (if 2) will be deployed in each side of the DZ and the main target is the gyro. I fear a Hydra will be a war machine target, so first impulse is leaving Naggaroth without.

Core:

I plan to use quite a lot core regiments. Some (2?) 10 strong RxB, which are a decent matchup for dwarf missile troops in a shootout and can do some damage to a small slayer unit. Think I'll go with shields and use them to flank, when HtH begins.

30 spears with shields + FC to provide static CR. General on foot will likely go here to boost unit and make it look more dangerous than it really is.

25 Black Ark Corsairs + FC + SSS: Lots of attacks but not much pain delivered. Their survivability against shooting plus the number of attacks on the charge makes them better than spear elves per point, but not by much.

2*5 harpies for silencing the organ gun(s) for 1 or 2 rounds. Perhaps a single regiment of dark riders to charge a forward placed organ gun.

Charactes:

General: I prefer a dreadlord for the Ld10. To make him survive: Armour of Eternal Servitude, SDC, S, Pendant of Khaeleth, Soulrender or full mundane armour, PoK, Sword of Ruin.

Master: He is the main war machine silencer. He will rumble forward to hide somewhere in turn 1. Turn 2 he can't see any war machines (otherwise he'd be death), so he'll gulp down a Black Dragon Egg and fly behind dwarven line and breath death on war machine crews. Hopefully T6 is enough to survive a flying hammer and some engineer's pistols. Turn 3 and further he will charge what's left. Dark Pegasus, lance, HA, SDC, S, RxB, Black Dragon Egg.

BSB: Will take the Hydra Banner and join the Executioners. Then equipment will be either (for a master) HA, SDC, GW or (for a Death Hag) Dance of Death and Hand of Khaine. I feel the Death Hag might actually be more surviveable and the Executioners will almost want to charge if able to. What's your opinion, Master or Death Hag?

Assassin: Don't know where he goes? Additional Hand Weapon, Touch of Death, Rune of Khaine, Black Lotus. Black Lotus removes the poison to get maximum number of rolls to wound and let me reroll a sixth of those. He average just above 1 killing blow per turn. Hope that dwarf doesn't have Rune(s) of Iron or Master Rune of Spite (isn't that a Cold One :lol:)?


And overview:
Core: 1007 (inkl. spears and DR)
Special: 618 (inkl. BG)
Rare: 200
Characters: 779/824 depending on BSB

So where do I cut the 2604/2649 points?

My own idea is BG (234), General (234), 1RBT and the odd model in a few regiments. Problem are now that I only have 2 medium sized hammer units and my rather squishy general will be running around on his own, untill the footsloggers catches up.
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Druchii77
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Post by Druchii77 »

You really don't need 30 strong spear units. 20-25 works just as well. Remember you only get up to +3 for combat res. Those additional ranks are made for maintaining full rank bonus only.

Also I like your character setup. I think it could do well.
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Descipleofkhaine
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Post by Descipleofkhaine »

Hi, i often play against a dwarf. (Thats the reason why my Hydras risen foot put on a dwarf.) With the new army book i overruned him the last time. My dwarfen enemy play 3 CC Blocks. One big 6x5 Dwarfes and two small to support the big one. The last time i killed the support units, 5x2 dwarfs) with my cold ones. My Black riders hunted his war maschines. My RBT shoot in the main Unit to make it smaller. Then Execs in the front, Whitches in the left rear coks in the right. My enemy every time play everithing he can to rise ist CR. So i hit im hard to negate this advantage. Hellebron was a good Choise for this. My Assassin killied his king with the Venom Blade. I won this battle and only lost my Execs an two Dark Riders.

I think MAnticores are a bad choice against so much shooting power. Manticores are big targets or not?
My Dwarfen friend bought a lot of new stuff at Gw, so i think about new strategies and ideas for some new surprises. On a german board i found one nice Idea. In german we call it "Adliger Jäger" which means in english "Noble Hunter". Take a noble an equip im two a dwarf killer an let him ride on a Pegasus. I think in the second turn this Noble Hunter can start hunting Warmashine crews.
Malerun
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Post by Malerun »

druchii77 wrote:You really don't need 30 strong spear units. 20-25 works just as well. Remember you only get up to +3 for combat res. Those additional ranks are made for maintaining full rank bonus only.


Ok, when adjusting points spears will be lost, pehars even used to beef the specials.

DescipleofKhaine wrote: In german we call it "Adliger Jäger" which means in english "Noble Hunter". Take a noble an equip im two a dwarf killer an let him ride on a Pegasus. I think in the second turn this Noble Hunter can start hunting Warmashine crews.


I think with regard to hunting characters, is that the characters often go into combat block and charging one of these means losing to static CR. After fleeing the dwarfves will have a round of shooting practice against a rather soft target. A cunning dwarf will, given the chance, slash down the pegasus in the HtH, which wiill render the character rather unusable, should he survive the round of shooting.

My master on pegasus is build to target war machines, where he should have a better chance of survival.
Descipleofkhaine
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Post by Descipleofkhaine »

You attacking the Maschine directly? I think to kill the crew ist much easier and an anvil in example can´t be destroyed.
Malerun
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Post by Malerun »

DescipleofKhaine wrote:You attacking the Maschine directly? I think to kill the crew ist much easier and an anvil in example can´t be destroyed.


Bad wording. Of course Im targeting the crew :)
Malerun
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Post by Malerun »

First the characters: It was pointed out to me, that a character needs to be Khanite to join the executioners: So a Death hag it is! The assassin goes in the Corsairs for the frenzy: Another attack per round for 6-8 hatred, KB attacks per round! I prefer him in the Corsairs (lots of low S attacks) instead of the Executioners, as he complements the Corsairs, but not the Executioners. I have decided to upgrade the flying master to a Dreadlord, for the better combat skills and the better Ld, when the army catches up. Untill then Ld8 + BSB must suffice. I've added the Pendant of Khaeleth for protection and a pair of repeater hand bows. As he starts by flying into the "castle" he should be in range at all times.

Characters:
Dreadlord: Dark Pegasus, lance, HA, SDC, S, 2*RHB, Black Dragon Egg, Pendant of Khaeleth: 292

Death Hag: BSB, Hydra Banner, Dance of Death and Hand of Khaine: 235

Assassin: Additional Hand Weapon, Touch of Death, Rune of Khaine, Black Lotus: 171

Cores:
2*10 RxBs: Shields: 220

24 spears: Shields + FC: 183

23 Black Ark Corsairs + FC + Sea Serpent Standard: 280

2*5 harpies: 110

5 Dark Riders: Musician: 92

Specials:
15 Witches: FC + Manbane + Banner of Murder: 225

15 Executioners: Draichmaster: 192

And totalling up:
Core: 885
Special: 417
Characters: 698

Questions for you is now:
Death Hag: Dance of Death + Hand of Khaine OR Manbane + Rune of Khaine. In other words, defensive or offensive. Defensive will keep the banner alive a little longer but offensive can make the executioners cut through the opponent and avoid the 2nd second round of combat, where they strike last.
Are the RxBs usefull enough vs dwarves to warrant them? The point could buy me 4 harpy units, 2 RBTs, another unit of witches, 2 units Dark Riders, or another unit of spearmen.
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