Dark Elves for 'Ard Boyz

Dooks dizzo · Post by **Dooks dizzo** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:50 am

After getting trounced in the 40K 'Ard Boyz I figure I need to come back home and play some Fantasy.

So I am getting ready to gear up for the Fantasy 'Ard Boyz in September. I figure it's a rather safe bet that Daemons are going to be there in strength vying for the top spots.

Initially this kind of stole the wind from my sails. Considering some of the NASTY things that can be done with DoC in 3000 points I almost just gave up.

Then I looked down and noticed I wasn't wearing a skirt.

So instead of whining about it I got to thinking, exactly just what can I bring to slap the taste clean out of Daemons mouths? And then, like a light coming on from above I remembered...

Shade Death Star.

Here's what I've got and I hope it's horrifying...

=Lord=
Dreadlord
Pair of Repeater Handbows
Heavy Armor / Sea Dragon Cloak / Enchanted Shield
Pendant of Khaeleth
Soul Render
Potion of Strength

This guy is build for taking challenges and winning them. S9 for a turn if he needs it!

Dreadlord
Pair of Repeater Handbows
Heavy Armor / Sea Dragon Cloak
Null Talisman x 4
Hydra Blade

Utility Lord (if there is such a thing). He gives the unit MR4 and halves the BS of anyone shooting at them. Combined with being Skirmishers most people should be hitting on 6's at best.

=Heroes=
Battle Standard Bearer
Banner of Hag Graef
Great Weapon
Pair of Repeater Handbows
Heavy Armor / Sea Dragon Cloak

Gives the unit ASF, +1 combat res and a reroll if I need it. But if I need that reroll I am in deepest poo.

Death Hag
Cauldron of Blood

This is really the clincher for the list. A 5+ ward for the unit is a big dang deal. Should defense not be a problem then either +1 attack or killing blow is perfect for those hard to reach places (even Plague Bearer don't want to take that many KB attacks).

Master
Great Weapon
Pair of Repeater Handbows
Heavy Armor / Sea Dragon Cloak
Pearl of Infinite Bleakness
Guiding Eye

On more utility character to round it all out. Makes the unit Immune to Psycology which is really important. No way am I taking a chance on losing the unit to one bad fear or terror test!

Guiding eye is just funny. For 25 points I get to reroll the entire units shooting once per game. For when to absolutly, positively have to murder every puddle jumper on the board. Accept no substitutes.

=Core=
Dark Riders x 5
Musician / Repeater crossbows

Never know when some fast Cav might be handy!

Crossbows x 10
Crosbows x 10
Warriors x 10

=Special=
Shades x 50
Repeater Crossbows
Additional Hand Weapon

100 shots per turn. If played right I get 100 in my turn then another 100 for a Stand and Shoot reaction. BS5 lets me hit on 5+ in most situations and 3+ or 4+ in ideal circumstances. If it comes to combat, well that is a lot of attacks backed up by some rock hard characters.

Black Guard x 10
Tower Master, Ring of Hotek

Cheapest way to get the Ring in there and cause some miscast action. I'll just keep them right behind the Death Star.

=Rare=
War Hydra
War Hydra
War Hydra

The Hydra's round out the list. They can guard my flanks and grab or contest table corners nicely.

All in all it comes in at just a hair under 3K.

Post by **Calisson** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:22 am

Let us know how it behaves in battles!

I'm puzzled with the core troops.

Dark Riders x 5 Musician / Repeater crossbows
3 x Warriors x 10

I know that warriors are just here to be cheap.
However, shade stars are vulnerable to simultaneous charges (especially chariot).
This is where DR come very handy and should help preventing your opponent to place his chargers where he wants.

For this reason, I'd consider taking DR as core. Probably they need no RXB, that is too expensive for what it does.

Finally, for a death star, I'd consider providing the shades with armour. Yes, I know, they are not very likely to suffer S3 attacks, but if it is the case, then for a small price you get 1/6 more survivors. Not sure of the conclusion, though, but it's worth studying.

Grandmaster ej · Post by **Grandmaster ej** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:37 am

I think you have two main vunerubilities:

1 - other dark elves with a pendant cruise missile (situational)

2 - the black guard caddy unit (HUGE PROBLEM)

firstly a pendant cruise missile, could survive the stand and shoot, he may even be too close for it to begin with, unseen lurker etc. This along with a combined charge from something harder than you, such as ASF black guard or a hydra in the flank where your characters are NOT then you are going to lose this unit, and the game. But its situational, the one you need to be worried about with daemons, is the masque.

further more, with a shade-star, above these two foes the one you need to be most worried about, is vampires.

lastly, i dont think that you can ahve 4 null stones, I believe the max magic res is 3

Slortor · Post by **Slortor** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:06 pm

EJ is right - 3 is the highest MR you are allowed

personally i'd lose the guiding eye and get hotek into the deathstar - if anyone takes out the 5 BG (which wont be hard... they are T3 5+ AS afterall) then hotek and a large portion of your magic defence vanishes... and tbh you dont need the rerolls i wouldnt think. 33 hits should be as good as 55 unless you are shooting something really really nasty.

Only other thing - id give the Assassain rending stars - that way he can go and take down chariots etc on his own without needing to distract the Star... in fact id take a 40 man death star and a 10 man unit with a RS/MB assassain to actually scout - bit more utility...

Post by **Calisson** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:23 pm

Slortor wrote:EJ is right - 3 is the highest MR you are allowed

4 is allowed, there is no limitation.
Agree with other statements.

Dooks dizzo · Post by **Dooks dizzo** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:46 pm

Thanks for the input guys, it will really help keep me on my toes.

I can see how Vamps might be an issue since I really have no way of stopping summoning spam. I'll have to try and go straight for the army general and murder him.

Pendant cruise missle will be problematic. If I see one I'll be sure to keep a screen in front of the Star. Though I don't know if even he could survive the S&S. (I've got +16 shots from the characters as well).

I need to drop the Ring of Darkness because I can't have it and Null Talismans on the same character. Dang.

I am seriously considering dropping the assassin from the shade unit. It gives me back enough points to add 5 guys to the BG and change out 2 units of warriors fro crossbows.

Desert icon · Post by **Desert icon** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:09 pm

Calisson wrote:4 is allowed, there is no limitation.

Tournament special rule? Because MR3 is the highest you can have normally (although he could have 4 or more Null Talismans, though they would give him no further benefit).

Dooks dizzo · Post by **Dooks dizzo** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:13 pm

Hmmm, not sure how they rule this one. You can fit up to 6 Null talismans on a character. Is it the BRB that says you can't have higher than MR3 and if so, would the army book superceed in this case?

Slortor · Post by **Slortor** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:48 pm

no it wouldnt - you can buy the 6 null talismans if you want...

but you only get three extra dice against a spell whether you have 3 NT or 6 NT, so the other 3 are a waste of time...

Post by **Calisson** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:01 pm

I don't have BRB with me but it's a discussion that has been made already.
Can someone quote the exact wording of BRB about magic resistance?

Desert icon · Post by **Desert icon** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:26 pm

Calisson wrote:I don't have BRB with me but it's a discussion that has been made already.

And probably one best left for a new topic, lest we hijack this thread faster than a Somalian pirate (of course, no offense meant to anyone who may or may not be Somalian

). Of course, I'll still try my best to explain since it will benefit Dooks Dizzo in making his list, so technically it is still relevant.

Calisson wrote:Can someone quote the exact wording of BRB about magic resistance?

While there is no direct quote I can give you from the book that specifically and directly says "MR only goes to maximum of 3," the entry heading for Magic Resistance on page 94 itself is the one that gives the limitation. The fact that it is expressed as "Magic Resistance (1-3)" is what sets the limitation for Magic Resistance, showing that MR is a property/ability of certain units/items that can go no lower than 1 and no higher than 3. Of course, certain rules/abilities trump this in the relevant army books (such as the Brettonian King) and their workings are described in their relevant entries, since generally Army Book > Rulebook.

Dooks dizzo · Post by **Dooks dizzo** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:32 am

I'll try to solve it by contacting the person heading up the 'Ard Boyz at GW. That should get it sorted. It's rather gray to be honest either way.

Zakath the slaughterer · Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:54 am

Heh, no gray areas there

3 is the max you can have, end of story. If you buy 6 Talismans, the three extras are just for Vaul's Unmaking or the like.

Shade death stars are a bit unreliable IMHO - especially in this large games where enemies can bring all sorts of nasties too. Including a lot of templates!

You're better off making a real list, methinks

Kargan daemonclaw · Post by **Kargan daemonclaw** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:06 am

Even if you are charged by a character from long range your S&S when the character is in the unit so all the hits go on the unit.

Also shade star lists are very vulnerable to things that hit automatically. like salamanders.

You als have no magic defence against things like black horror. It's a place the template spell so you are not targetted so so ring and your null talismans do nothing. Most shade star armies take a scroll caddy to stop this sort of thing. Your magic defence won't stop Wind of undeath either.

I can see things like the skaven static res monster unit being a problem as well.

I think you would be better with great weapons on the shades as well.

Dooks dizzo · Post by **Dooks dizzo** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:29 am

Not sure I get the MR thing completely. As was mentioned there are precedents of higher than 3 in the game, such as the Brettionian King.

Is there and FAQ anywhere that deals with this?