Tournament list without Black Guard, Magic, Hotek or Pendant

[Skilgannon]

Hi Guys I have been looking at focusing on a few lists to play at tournaments next year. This is one i have had success with against a couple of nasty armies. I have only played with it 3 times as I have been changing lists every game or two so I can get the hang of dark elves. So far I have played the Slaanesh leadership reduction army, a 12 power dice, 2 Vargulf vampire army and a dwarf army with plenty of combat troops and a couple of organ guns.

Dread Lord: Great Weapon, Armour of Darkness, Black Amulet: 241pts
Master: BSB, Armour of Eternal Servitude, SDC, Sword of Might: 163pts

Assassin: Add Hand Weapon, Touch of Death, Rune of Khaine: 151pts
Assassin: Add Hand Weapon, Rending Stars, Manbane: 151pts

5 Dark Riders: RXB, M: 117pts
5 Dark Riders: RXB, M: 117pts
5 Harpies: 55pts
5 Harpies: 55pts
10 RXB: 100pts
10 RXB: 100pts
20 Warriors: CSM: 135pts
20 Warriors: CSM: 135pts

5 Shades: GW: 90pts
14 Witch Elves: CSM, Banner of Murder, Manbane: 215pts

Hydra: 175pts

2000pts

On a side note I have converted my spearmen to not have shields so I won't be able to add shields and I won't be able to get the spearmen with shield painted in time. Pretty much the same story with the RXB. Also my BSB model only has two arms so no GW/shields!

What do you guys think?

[Dyvim tvar]

Interesting. Do you plan to put the General and BSB both in one spear unit, or split them up? The lack of shields is big problem ... Are the tournament organizers really that strict with WYSIWYG?

[Skilgannon]

Do you plan to put the General and BSB both in one spear unit, or split them up?

It depends I am very flexible on my character placement. ususally i would either have a character and assasin in each unit or one assassin with the shades and one character in one unit and the character and assasin in the other unit.

May I ask what you find interesting as i'm keen for more indepth discussion on this list as I am planning to use it for a tournament the more I understand it and people's reactions to it the better.

Are the tournament organizers really that strict with WYSIWYG?

I don't know about tournament organisers but I am. I put that down since a common comment on my lists is to add shields but I don't have the models, i'm not particuarly worried about it.

The lack of shields is big problem

Why is this? I have played without shields in all my games so far and although I can definitely see their value in some games I feel the points to shield ratio is about right so it doesn't matter to much on average whether I take them or not. Perhaps it is the way I use them there are definitely some uses I would like shields for. I'm looking at getting some done at some point for more choice but it isn't a priority.

My thinking is: option to go HW shield is nice but you lose a rank of fighting so against alot of units you miss out or are about even considering the points saved. Otherwise since mose attacks are S4 or higher these days a 5+ Save usually gives you a 6+ save at best this doesn't seem to make a huge difference to me. I'm not saying it isn't significant but no more so than the 40/60pts I would have to drop from the army.

[Thanee]

Shields are awesome against low strength troops, but they surely will work without them as well (just not as good, but they also don't cost as much then, as you say).

Point is... with shields they have the better chance to hold on a charge, simply because the chance is better that they get less wounds.

Anyways... one thing that immediately springs to mind with that army... you really, really, really do not want to put that one up against one of those nasty almost all Tzeentch Daemon armies floating around here...

Bye
Thanee

[Skilgannon]

Point is... with shields they have the better chance to hold on a charge, simply because the chance is better that they get less wounds

I guess this is my issue I tend to use ranked infantry to make charges (or where charging is the least worst option for the opponent). if a unit is likely to hold a charge why would my opponent charge it? I have put a more detailed thread on the tactics forum about shield on warriors i guess my feeling is you either lose the spear attacks or don't get a save worth much unless against S3 (which seems a little rare currently and not neceserily what I would like to use my warrior units against).

you really, really, really do not want to put that one up against one of those nasty almost all Tzeentch Daemon armies floating around here...

I played one of those a months ago with my dwarf army it was killing 20 dwarves per turn with me using scrolls and dice. I'm not sure I fancy many armies against that Tzeentch list although a Ring of Hotek would clearly help. In fairness I was quite concerened about facing a 12 dice Vampire army but that one went ok. Adding the ring of hotek in requires a serious rejig as there are no conveinent characters or unit champtions who could be given it.

[Thanee]

Just saying the chances are better, not that they easily hold on a charge. But making the break test on a 6- is much better than when you have to roll a 4- to succeed, for example, especially if you also have a BSB nearby for the re-roll.

Charging yourself is obviously the preferred method of arriving in combat, but you do not always have that luxury.

And yeah, I pretty much always use HW+Shield with them. Those pitiful S3 attacks aren't really worth much, anyways, in most cases.

Bye
Thanee