2500 pt all rounder list tournament likely

Bies · Post by **Bies** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:14 pm

This is a list I've tweaked after playing 2 games. I tried this list with no blackguard and only 2 bolt throwers with another unit of 20 warriors and a hydra instead. Didn't like it (although I beat an empire army).

This list I massacred an orc list and I quite like it but thought I'd post it for review and to see if there are any tricks I'm missing out on.

Dreadlord - Crimson Death, Armour of Eternal Solitude, Pendant of Khaleth, Sea Dragon Cloak = 241

Master - Banner of Hag Graef, Heavy Armour, Seadragon Cloak - 123*
Sorceress - lv2, Darkstar cloak, Dispel Scroll = 185
Sorceress - lv2, Sacrificial dagger, Dispel Scroll = 185

2x5 Dark Riders with RepeaterXbows and musicians = 234
2x5 Dark Riders with musicians = 184
18 Warriors, shields, fullcomand = 155 (1 sorceress in here)
15 Corsairs, full command, Sea Serpent Banner = 200

18 Executioners, FUll Command, Banner of Murder = 271, Dlord and BSB in here

21 Blackguard, Full Command, Warbanner = 320, 7x3 ranks

4xBolt Throwers

= 2498pts
* I realize I have forgotten to pay the BSB cost, but don't have my book here so not sure how much it is, probably take the Xbows from 1 unit of Dark Riders to pay for it.

The Black Guard did awesome. Taking on 3 units of 30 orc boyz at the same time and defeating all 3. The Executioner unit with gen and bsb is horrible as well. Killed 25 greatswords with both combat detachments on my flank in 3 rounds of combat and a unit of 20 black orcs in 1 round..

Advice, Criticism welcome.

Darc · Post by **Darc** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:19 pm

The BSB upgrade is 25 points so swapping out the crossbows on the dark riders will allow for it.

Also, it's no longer possible to put non-Khainite characters in Khainite units. The Executioners are a Khainite unit.

Bies · Post by **Bies** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:25 pm

ah bugger... that executioner unit was killer.

No point putting the lord and BSB in the black guard, it's just overkill.

Need to review my character/unit combos (I come from an Empire background so my characters are usually designed to support the unit they're in rather then the otherway round).

Punk_in_drublic · Post by **Punk_in_drublic** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:13 pm

Just make your bsb a death hag. Give her rune of khaine and you've got 6-8 str 4 ASF poison attacks. Sure, she'll be frenzied, but just adapt to that. Put her bang in the esec unit and ypu're golden.

Laters,

-Punk

Bies · Post by **Bies** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:15 pm

and what, drop 1 of the Blackguard and stick the Dreadlord in there.

I guess it makes more sense to stick him in the Warriors so then the unit = 20 US with the mage in there as well.

I'll need to wait till tuesday to get my army book back but seems like a simple enough modification.

What about the rest of the army- workable?

Darc · Post by **Darc** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:27 pm

Sorry to disagree with you there but I don't value Hag BSBs at all, I think BSBs should be a lot less squishy, although I suppose it's all personal preference. Besides, it's tricky to get the unit in combat when your opponent sees the Hag in there.

If you still want the Exec unit to be as badass as before I would recommend an Assassin instead. If the unit does get charged then the assassin reduces any attacks the Execs will take before they strike. This also helps in any prolonged combat.

As for the rest of the army, I'd switch those Warriors out for some Crossbowmen. You already have a few combat blocks and could use a little more fire support.

Also, if you have Harpies, consider switching out one unit of Dark Riders for two units of 5 Harpies.

Bies · Post by **Bies** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:41 pm

I have a whole host of older models but I plan on creating a new army so no unit choice is fixed.

I guess harpies are to take down enemy warmachines, I've always found fast cav to be able to the job anyway- then again I've never really played with any fliers or units like harpies.

I tried 2 units of 10 crossbowmen against the Empire army but found them to be less then usefull. Admitably the enemy army was all knights apart from the Greatswords which were in combat turn 2.

Against the orcs I saw that they could be used but again it wasn't an overriding need. I think I'll have to play another game or two before I decide on the matter. So far I'm figuring that with 2 rider units with bows and the 4 bolthrowers I can still give a decent shooting phase.

As for the Hag-Assassin debate I'll need to wait until I get my hands on the army book again (my copy is in Sydney and I'm currently in Hong Kong, need to wait to get to the shop so I can borrow the store copy as I don't fly home until the end of the month).

I found that one of the main reasons the execs were so effective was the ability to strike first which means I need the banner of Hag Graef in the unit, alternatively I may change the unit size to 14 (or figure a way to boost it to 21) and also use a 7x3 formation. At least I'll always have 2 guys attacking back (ignoring character attacks etc.).

so say, drop the warriors, get 10 xbows and boost the execs to 21. drop the bsb and get an assassin for the exec. drop 1 black guard and stick my general in that unit.

Keeps both crazy hard with the corsairs for support.

Darc · Post by **Darc** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:00 am

Well typically, Dark Riders are better at baiting units due to the fast cavalry rule, and can provide a little fire support at the same time. They can also perform better when doing a supporting flank charge.

However, I would say that Harpies are better at mage hunting since they can typically get an extra model in. They are also better at hunting warmachines due to the fact they can fly over units to get to warmachines on hills. Harpies are also better for screening units since they're harder to shoot.

Finally, the fact that they are cheaper than Dark Riders makes you care less when they're KIA and lets you have two units in place of one.

So basically, both units have different uses and theres no reason for them to be used exclusively of each other.

Personally I would switch out two units of Dark Riders for four units of Harpies, but it looks like you like the Dark Riders a lot so I suggested just the one for two swap.

Those changes look about right to me.

Bies · Post by **Bies** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:54 am

4 units of niggly flyers... interested!

I may play around with them and try'em out see how they go. I like my dark riders because 4 of them killed an Orc Great Shaman on Wyvern single handedly, actually comparing Darkriders to Marauder Horse and Pistoliers I think Dark riders are some of the best, if not the best, fast cav I've ever played with.

What you say about the warmachines is true, a dedicated warmachine hunter unit able to get rid of them in turn 2 is probably more effective then a unit that can take out warmachines but will likely be used for other more important purposes.

Darc · Post by **Darc** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:12 am

I completely agree with you about the Dark Riders, they are definitely one of the best fast cavalry units in the game. I wouldn't say they're better than pistoliers, although they're faster they have slightly less firepower. I'd say they were a good match though.

I'd say definitely give the harpies a try though, I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Bies · Post by **Bies** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:20 am

I play Empire as my main army and don't find pistoliers to be that amazing, then again I have never used more then 2 units at once, them being special and all.

Darc · Post by **Darc** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:34 am

Oh, they can be annoying when there are four units of 6 running around. Especially against an army of squishy elves. This was before the new Dark Elf book though, so I didn't field anything as tough as a Hydra.

Bies · Post by **Bies** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:06 am

I tried the hydra in my first game and found it less then stelar, which is why i have 4 bolts in the above list.

I know I used it correctly (used a unit of riders to set the hydra on a flank charge on some empire knights) it just didn't do any real damage, lost the combat and got overrun.

4 units of 6 outriders?! That goes against the usual cardinal rule of 1 Great Cannon per 1000pts!! haha.

Darc · Post by **Darc** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:19 am

Fair enough. I think you might have been incredibly unlucky with it there though. Seven S5 attacks with Hatred and a flank charge. That combat should have been easily won by the Hydra.

Anyway, perhaps it'll be worth giving it a second try in future. There's nothing wrong with Bolt Throwers at all, I just think ours are a little expensive.

Are those not a rare choice? I'm sure he had two of those as well.

Bies · Post by **Bies** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:52 pm

Outriders are a special choice. So he could have had 2 units of Pistoliers and two of outriders but not 4 of one and 2 of the other.

I think a hydra will be something I'll get after my initial 2500pt army for variation reasons. The idea of 4 boltthrowers makes me ticklish- no guessing, no misfiring!

Darc · Post by **Darc** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:42 pm

I meant two Great Cannons, and four units of 6 Pistoliers (those are the ones with the 3xmultiple shots weapons right?).

Yeah, I reckon you'll scare any Brettonian players you come up against anyway