Thanks so much for that Gary. I appreciate your time. My Internet is playing up so can't risk writing too much!
Hydra itself has hatred right?
Dark lore does seem pretty tech!
The Heartless - 11/09 - UKGT testing & minor changes
Moderator: The Dread Knights
-
Dark Alliance
- Morathi's Favoured
- Posts: 9741
- Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 1:29 pm
- Location: In the paintshop
*To the mods: my aim for this thread is to create a battle log for this army. It will include army lists, battle reports, records etc etc. I am very keen for it to remain in this forum as opposed to the Battle Reports one as its more focussed on the list. The battle log threads of old proved quite popular so im hoping to recreate that. Hope this is ok*
Hey,
So yesterday my army finally got a run out. I must say I was probably about as excited about a game of Warhammer as Ive ever been. I actually managed to get two games in aswell
I still havent gotten around to the fluff, but as I like to write a small peice relating to each battle I shall probably "back date" it when I finally get around to it.
Anyhow, here is my list again, so you dont have to flick back to page 2;
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-The Heartless-
2,000 point Dark Elf Army
Karst Ether'Rage (Supreme Sorceress) - Level 4, Dark Pegasus, 2 Null Talismans, Focus Familiar, Dispel Scroll. (390)
Menardi Qel Droma (Sorceress) - Level 2, Dark Steed, Darkstar Cloak, Dispel Scroll. (197)
5 Dark Riders - Repeater Crossbows, Musician. (117)
5 Dark Riders - Repeater Crossbows. (110)
10 Repeater Crossbowmen - Shields. (110)
5 Harpies (55)
5 Harpies (55)
5 Shades (80)
6 Shades - Great Weapons. (108)
Cyuss (Assassin) - Additional Hand Weapon, Rending Stars, Manbane, Cloak of Twilight. (171)
6 Cold One Knights - Standard Bearer & Champion, Ring of Hotek, Standard of Hag Graef. (254)
War Hydra (175)
War Hydra (175)
Total; 1,997 points
Power Dice; 9 + Cloak of Twilight
Dispel Dice; 5 + 2 Scrolls
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I travelled up to the GW store early as I was meeting some friends down the pub early afternoon. However before indulging in a beverage or three me and a mate (who will probably become one of my most common opponents) decided to play a game. He is mostly a Daemon player and can put together just about any list, which will be usefull when it comes to testing for tournaments....
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Game 1 - vs Daemons of Chaos
A game vs my good friend Diesel, I have quite a unique friendship with this guy, in that, he is the only person who's name I have tattooed on my behind...but yeah, thats another story really, huh?
I know he is fond of Bloodthirsters and Keepers, Flesh Hounds and Flamers. However, today was very different. To put it bluntly, he went extremely friendly and took probably as soft a Daemon list as is possible, it featured;
3 massive units of Plague Bearers, all with Heralds (one a BSB) & 2 units of Flamers. Yup...thats it!
From the outset it was obvious the Flamers would be the only real threat to me here. Luckily both Sorceresses had Chillwind and Doombolt, so I tended to soften the units with Doombolt, and then hit a Chillwind at them, as Chillwind seemed unlikely to do the required 2 wounds to stop them shooting, which of course was the desired effect! He also had a fairly decent magic phase with all 3 Heralds being level 1's, and was packing 3 Staffs of Nurgle; which did seem pretty usefull against my lowly toughness. Anyhow I dropped one unit of Flamers to a single model very early on and the Assassin finished him off. The other unit managed to avoid any really damaged and went about killing off a few of my small units. The Harpies were brilliant, totally stalling his massive units. The Hydras totally wrecked the ranked Plaguebearers when I finally got into a good posistion to do so, killing up to 10 models a time with the flaming breath attack. I did make a mistake when I sent a Hydra on 1 wound (friggin' Flamers!) on a suicide charge into the front of a full unit, planning on taking out the BSB before dying. However I forgot I'd let him have a spell that reduces some of the stats of models in contact to 1, so obviously that didnt go so well. The Knights mostly got in my way this game, and caused me 2 miscasts and none for him (starting a record of that!), though I did through them into the rear of a unit once it had been significantly reduced, but even then it was only luck on his break test (even for reroll) that caused the unit to dissapear as opposed to any wounds.
So whilst I was never in any danger of losing this game, I did find it hard to rack up a decent ammount of points, and as the game went on he slowly started to wittle mine down.
Victory Points; 997/433
Minor Vicotory to The Heartless
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, not a real report there, just wanted to scan over the main points. Anyway, some thoughts, questions etc;
*Remember Hatred!!!
*Can I pop the Assassin from a unit of Shades on Turn 1, displace a shade pushing a model to within 2" of a wood, thus seeing a target and being able to declare a charge? Does that make sense?
*Focus Familar is awesome. Really really usefull. Is making me question the Null Talismans however, I didnt need to use them atall over both games.
*If the Dark Pegasus is behind a unit of Dark Riders it cant be targetted, right? What about man sized models?
*Concerning the movement of a Hydra. Can it really march through woods without penalty and then use its breath weapon? Can is pivot and move in any direction free of charge? How many attacks do the Beastmasters get, 2 or 3?
*Hydras are really good!
*Love the Assassin! He can leave the unit the turn he is revealed cant he?
*Need to remember that Manbane works in combat and not just the Stars!
*I like Dark Magic. Does Power of Darkness count as part of Dark Lore? Cause the Daemons had a banner that was -2 to cast (forgot to mention that!), he choose Dark Lore, but we agreed PoD would not suffer the -2.
*Remember Hatred!!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Games Played: 1 / Won: 1 / Drawn: 0 / Lost: 0
Daemons of Chaos: 1 / Won: 1 / Drawn: 0 / Lost: 0
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately I dont have time to write up the second game, which was vs Wood Elves as planned. Hopefully Ill get that up tonight, if not, tomorrow. That was a better game. Hopefull this gives you all something to say back to me. i can give much better/clearer details on the game if needed
Cheers,
Chris
X
Hey,
So yesterday my army finally got a run out. I must say I was probably about as excited about a game of Warhammer as Ive ever been. I actually managed to get two games in aswell
I still havent gotten around to the fluff, but as I like to write a small peice relating to each battle I shall probably "back date" it when I finally get around to it.
Anyhow, here is my list again, so you dont have to flick back to page 2;
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-The Heartless-
2,000 point Dark Elf Army
Karst Ether'Rage (Supreme Sorceress) - Level 4, Dark Pegasus, 2 Null Talismans, Focus Familiar, Dispel Scroll. (390)
Menardi Qel Droma (Sorceress) - Level 2, Dark Steed, Darkstar Cloak, Dispel Scroll. (197)
5 Dark Riders - Repeater Crossbows, Musician. (117)
5 Dark Riders - Repeater Crossbows. (110)
10 Repeater Crossbowmen - Shields. (110)
5 Harpies (55)
5 Harpies (55)
5 Shades (80)
6 Shades - Great Weapons. (108)
Cyuss (Assassin) - Additional Hand Weapon, Rending Stars, Manbane, Cloak of Twilight. (171)
6 Cold One Knights - Standard Bearer & Champion, Ring of Hotek, Standard of Hag Graef. (254)
War Hydra (175)
War Hydra (175)
Total; 1,997 points
Power Dice; 9 + Cloak of Twilight
Dispel Dice; 5 + 2 Scrolls
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I travelled up to the GW store early as I was meeting some friends down the pub early afternoon. However before indulging in a beverage or three me and a mate (who will probably become one of my most common opponents) decided to play a game. He is mostly a Daemon player and can put together just about any list, which will be usefull when it comes to testing for tournaments....
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Game 1 - vs Daemons of Chaos
A game vs my good friend Diesel, I have quite a unique friendship with this guy, in that, he is the only person who's name I have tattooed on my behind...but yeah, thats another story really, huh?
I know he is fond of Bloodthirsters and Keepers, Flesh Hounds and Flamers. However, today was very different. To put it bluntly, he went extremely friendly and took probably as soft a Daemon list as is possible, it featured;
3 massive units of Plague Bearers, all with Heralds (one a BSB) & 2 units of Flamers. Yup...thats it!
From the outset it was obvious the Flamers would be the only real threat to me here. Luckily both Sorceresses had Chillwind and Doombolt, so I tended to soften the units with Doombolt, and then hit a Chillwind at them, as Chillwind seemed unlikely to do the required 2 wounds to stop them shooting, which of course was the desired effect! He also had a fairly decent magic phase with all 3 Heralds being level 1's, and was packing 3 Staffs of Nurgle; which did seem pretty usefull against my lowly toughness. Anyhow I dropped one unit of Flamers to a single model very early on and the Assassin finished him off. The other unit managed to avoid any really damaged and went about killing off a few of my small units. The Harpies were brilliant, totally stalling his massive units. The Hydras totally wrecked the ranked Plaguebearers when I finally got into a good posistion to do so, killing up to 10 models a time with the flaming breath attack. I did make a mistake when I sent a Hydra on 1 wound (friggin' Flamers!) on a suicide charge into the front of a full unit, planning on taking out the BSB before dying. However I forgot I'd let him have a spell that reduces some of the stats of models in contact to 1, so obviously that didnt go so well. The Knights mostly got in my way this game, and caused me 2 miscasts and none for him (starting a record of that!), though I did through them into the rear of a unit once it had been significantly reduced, but even then it was only luck on his break test (even for reroll) that caused the unit to dissapear as opposed to any wounds.
So whilst I was never in any danger of losing this game, I did find it hard to rack up a decent ammount of points, and as the game went on he slowly started to wittle mine down.
Victory Points; 997/433
Minor Vicotory to The Heartless
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, not a real report there, just wanted to scan over the main points. Anyway, some thoughts, questions etc;
*Remember Hatred!!!
*Can I pop the Assassin from a unit of Shades on Turn 1, displace a shade pushing a model to within 2" of a wood, thus seeing a target and being able to declare a charge? Does that make sense?
*Focus Familar is awesome. Really really usefull. Is making me question the Null Talismans however, I didnt need to use them atall over both games.
*If the Dark Pegasus is behind a unit of Dark Riders it cant be targetted, right? What about man sized models?
*Concerning the movement of a Hydra. Can it really march through woods without penalty and then use its breath weapon? Can is pivot and move in any direction free of charge? How many attacks do the Beastmasters get, 2 or 3?
*Hydras are really good!
*Love the Assassin! He can leave the unit the turn he is revealed cant he?
*Need to remember that Manbane works in combat and not just the Stars!
*I like Dark Magic. Does Power of Darkness count as part of Dark Lore? Cause the Daemons had a banner that was -2 to cast (forgot to mention that!), he choose Dark Lore, but we agreed PoD would not suffer the -2.
*Remember Hatred!!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Games Played: 1 / Won: 1 / Drawn: 0 / Lost: 0
Daemons of Chaos: 1 / Won: 1 / Drawn: 0 / Lost: 0
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately I dont have time to write up the second game, which was vs Wood Elves as planned. Hopefully Ill get that up tonight, if not, tomorrow. That was a better game. Hopefull this gives you all something to say back to me. i can give much better/clearer details on the game if needed
Cheers,
Chris
X
-
Dark Alliance
- Morathi's Favoured
- Posts: 9741
- Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 1:29 pm
- Location: In the paintshop
Xizor wrote:*To the mods: my aim for this thread is to create a battle log for this army. It will include army lists, battle reports, records etc etc. I am very keen for it to remain in this forum as opposed to the Battle Reports one as its more focussed on the list. The battle log threads of old proved quite popular so im hoping to recreate that. Hope this is ok*
That's fine Chris. I'm the same (when I can be bothered!)
A game vs my good friend Diesel, I have quite a unique friendship with this guy, in that, he is the only person who's name I have tattooed on my behind...but yeah, thats another story really, huh?
Why am I not surprised by this statement
3 massive units of Plague Bearers, all with Heralds (one a BSB) & 2 units of Flamers. Yup...thats it!
From the outset it was obvious the Flamers would be the only real threat to me here. Luckily both Sorceresses had Chillwind and Doombolt, so I tended to soften the units with Doombolt, and then hit a Chillwind at them, as Chillwind seemed unlikely to do the required 2 wounds to stop them shooting, which of course was the desired effect! He also had a fairly decent magic phase with all 3 Heralds being level 1's, and was packing 3 Staffs of Nurgle; which did seem pretty usefull against my lowly toughness.
They are a bugger. The fact they can take multiple gifts just highlights how good the Daemon book really is. I lost half a unit of BG to just a single staff once.
Anyhow I dropped one unit of Flamers to a single model very early on and the Assassin finished him off. The other unit managed to avoid any really damaged and went about killing off a few of my small units.
That's why we use this guy:
Master, BSB - dark steed, ha, sdc, enchanted shield, lance, pendant. Flamers hate him!!
The Harpies were brilliant, totally stalling his massive units. The Hydras totally wrecked the ranked Plaguebearers when I finally got into a good posistion to do so, killing up to 10 models a time with the flaming breath attack. I did make a mistake when I sent a Hydra on 1 wound (friggin' Flamers!) on a suicide charge into the front of a full unit, planning on taking out the BSB before dying. However I forgot I'd let him have a spell that reduces some of the stats of models in contact to 1, so obviously that didnt go so well. The Knights mostly got in my way this game, and caused me 2 miscasts and none for him (starting a record of that!),
It takes a little practice to get used to using the ring in an army where you want to cast decent numbers of spells yourself. Persevere as it can be done quite successfully mate. I know from experience.
though I did through them into the rear of a unit once it had been significantly reduced, but even then it was only luck on his break test (even for reroll) that caused the unit to dissapear as opposed to any wounds.
So whilst I was never in any danger of losing this game, I did find it hard to rack up a decent ammount of points, and as the game went on he slowly started to wittle mine down.
Victory Points; 997/433
Minor Vicotory to The Heartless
Sweet! Always feels good when a new list wins the first time you use it. Well done.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, not a real report there, just wanted to scan over the main points. Anyway, some thoughts, questions etc;
*Remember Hatred!!!
*Can I pop the Assassin from a unit of Shades on Turn 1, displace a shade pushing a model to within 2" of a wood, thus seeing a target and being able to declare a charge? Does that make sense?
Yes you can, and GW have confirmed this in the DE FAQ. It is however, regarded as very cheesey and frowned upon in a lot of independant tournaments. In some tournies it is actually banned as part of the house rules. I would not start to rely upon it mate. Fine at the UK GT though.
*Focus Familar is awesome. Really really usefull. Is making me question the Null Talismans however, I didnt need to use them atall over both games.
I have found Null Talismans to have a limited use myself too. Where they really come into their own is against armies featuring lots of Horror units.
*If the Dark Pegasus is behind a unit of Dark Riders it cant be targetted, right? What about man sized models?
Concealed by both.
*Concerning the movement of a Hydra. Can it really march through woods without penalty and then use its breath weapon? Yes. Pg 94 BRB. Can is pivot and move in any direction free of charge? Yes. How many attacks do the Beastmasters get, 2 or 3? They get 3 mate. Confirmed as well in DE FAQ if I remember correctly.
*Hydras are really good! They are, but look out for the Blade of Realities in the new Lizard book!
*Love the Assassin! He can leave the unit the turn he is revealed cant he? Yes.
*Need to remember that Manbane works in combat and not just the Stars!
*I like Dark Magic. Does Power of Darkness count as part of Dark Lore? Cause the Daemons had a banner that was -2 to cast (forgot to mention that!), he choose Dark Lore, but we agreed PoD would not suffer the -2. Power of Darkness is not affected by the Banner of Sundering. That is clarified in the Daemon FAQ IIRC.
*Remember Hatred!!!
-
Marauder mitch2
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1575
- Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:48 am
- Location: Menoth Wills it - Hippies or Goths
Well done mate. Daemons are tough. I am finding it takes time to get used to the ring and magic but against some armies it is immense.
The assassin can be immense just he needs to be avoided being shot. I also find that bladewind is a awesome spell for flamer, but the pendant BSB is great against daemons.
Well done for the win, how did the other game go??
The assassin can be immense just he needs to be avoided being shot. I also find that bladewind is a awesome spell for flamer, but the pendant BSB is great against daemons.
Well done for the win, how did the other game go??
DJ Dizzy Posted: Jul 1 2009, 08:13 PM
Horror
Group: Members
Posts: 15
Member No.: 1,989
Joined: 26-February 09
My daemon record is 2 wins and 12 losses... Yep, I suck at warhammer
Horror
Group: Members
Posts: 15
Member No.: 1,989
Joined: 26-February 09
My daemon record is 2 wins and 12 losses... Yep, I suck at warhammer
Hey,
Im too tired after work to bother with writing up the second game tonight, Ill definately try to do it tomorrow, as I think it was a pretty exciting battle with some good moments! Also I just had an internal error so am going to have to try and wrote what I had all over again....so so annoying!!!
Gary, I would be a little upset if that selected statement suprised you! Id like to think you know me well enough to expect such things!!
I found trio of Staffs a right pain to be honest, and often found myself saving my dispel dice purely for the bound spells. I did forget to mention my thoughts, that already his list is very clearly a "soft" Daemon list, it still seemed pretty strong, durable and highly resiliant. But maybe thats just me out of practise and wanting to make myself feel better about my win. As correctly stated, I find it very nice to get a win with an army on its first outing, especially when its an army im looking to pursue a long and successfull career with!
That BSB seems good. Though I maybe wasnt aware he could have a Lance & Enchanted Shield aswell as his banner. Oh, that brings me on to something else; I want people to know that im not some utter newbie that knows nothing (or is that debatable?!
), out of practise is my prefered phrase . If the Assassin doesnt work out, though I really hope he does (love lone characters, even in 7th!), then I have planned to try out something like that. I also keep thinking about Manticores...
I agree on the point of the Ring of Hotek. It would be very easy for me to start chopping and changing after a few games. But I am confident the basic build I have here is decent, and can work. My only major concerns at the moment are the Null Talismans on the general.
As for the naughty Assassin trick, well, I shall probably use it from time to time, where...um, appropriate
That is how I used the Hydras in both games, having read and referenced all the pages youve quoted anyway. I just wanted to check as it felt a bit too good! Cheers for the confirmation on the Beastmasters attacks.
Marauder Mitch (from some random part of my memory I'm wanting to call you Rob...), I share your opinion on the Ring and Assassin. I really want them in my list, and will endeavour to work at making them work!
As for the other game, you'll have to wait and see! As a sort of preview, here is what he took;
Level 4, Level 2, BSB, Wardancer Noble, Glade Guard, 2x Dryads, 2x Wardancers, 2x Wild Riders, Treeman, Waywatchers.
Feel free to post what you think might of happened, or indeed what i shouldve done. In fact I encourage that, would be interesting.
I also want to see some different and new faces having a little post on this thread. I love input from everyone and want to hear as many opinions as possible. Remember this list is in no way set in stone yet. This isnt to say I want the likes of Dark Alliance to stop posting as much! Sorry, no let off for you Gary
Finally, after reading a couple of my posts I have noticed a pretty poor level in my grammar and spelling. Im putting this down to a new laptop - I cant stand not having a proper keyboard!
Cheers,
Chris
X
Im too tired after work to bother with writing up the second game tonight, Ill definately try to do it tomorrow, as I think it was a pretty exciting battle with some good moments! Also I just had an internal error so am going to have to try and wrote what I had all over again....so so annoying!!!
Gary, I would be a little upset if that selected statement suprised you! Id like to think you know me well enough to expect such things!!
I found trio of Staffs a right pain to be honest, and often found myself saving my dispel dice purely for the bound spells. I did forget to mention my thoughts, that already his list is very clearly a "soft" Daemon list, it still seemed pretty strong, durable and highly resiliant. But maybe thats just me out of practise and wanting to make myself feel better about my win. As correctly stated, I find it very nice to get a win with an army on its first outing, especially when its an army im looking to pursue a long and successfull career with!
That BSB seems good. Though I maybe wasnt aware he could have a Lance & Enchanted Shield aswell as his banner. Oh, that brings me on to something else; I want people to know that im not some utter newbie that knows nothing (or is that debatable?!
), out of practise is my prefered phrase . If the Assassin doesnt work out, though I really hope he does (love lone characters, even in 7th!), then I have planned to try out something like that. I also keep thinking about Manticores...
I agree on the point of the Ring of Hotek. It would be very easy for me to start chopping and changing after a few games. But I am confident the basic build I have here is decent, and can work. My only major concerns at the moment are the Null Talismans on the general.
As for the naughty Assassin trick, well, I shall probably use it from time to time, where...um, appropriate
That is how I used the Hydras in both games, having read and referenced all the pages youve quoted anyway. I just wanted to check as it felt a bit too good! Cheers for the confirmation on the Beastmasters attacks.
Marauder Mitch (from some random part of my memory I'm wanting to call you Rob...), I share your opinion on the Ring and Assassin. I really want them in my list, and will endeavour to work at making them work!
As for the other game, you'll have to wait and see! As a sort of preview, here is what he took;
Level 4, Level 2, BSB, Wardancer Noble, Glade Guard, 2x Dryads, 2x Wardancers, 2x Wild Riders, Treeman, Waywatchers.
Feel free to post what you think might of happened, or indeed what i shouldve done. In fact I encourage that, would be interesting.
I also want to see some different and new faces having a little post on this thread. I love input from everyone and want to hear as many opinions as possible. Remember this list is in no way set in stone yet. This isnt to say I want the likes of Dark Alliance to stop posting as much! Sorry, no let off for you Gary
Finally, after reading a couple of my posts I have noticed a pretty poor level in my grammar and spelling. Im putting this down to a new laptop - I cant stand not having a proper keyboard!
Cheers,
Chris
X
-
Marauder mitch2
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1575
- Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:48 am
- Location: Menoth Wills it - Hippies or Goths
Chris, it is the same rob. I think we chatted at Tanelorn a while ago. I like the list you are using, you just need to get back to practice shame grevious can't make a show thought.
Just keep practising you have a solid list.
Just keep practising you have a solid list.
DJ Dizzy Posted: Jul 1 2009, 08:13 PM
Horror
Group: Members
Posts: 15
Member No.: 1,989
Joined: 26-February 09
My daemon record is 2 wins and 12 losses... Yep, I suck at warhammer
Horror
Group: Members
Posts: 15
Member No.: 1,989
Joined: 26-February 09
My daemon record is 2 wins and 12 losses... Yep, I suck at warhammer
!smile! <= that's my "new" face. I never used that emoticon before.Xizor wrote:I also want to see some different and new faces having a little post on this thread. I love input from everyone and want to hear as many opinions as possible.
There is more to receive in this thread than to add, for us less experienced gamers.
As long as DA takes some time to provide his lessons, there will be plenty of avid readers and not many contradictors.
Your effort in grammar and spelling is appreciated, it is one of the good points of D.net for us who speak English as a foreign language.
Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}
-
Geoguswrek
- Highborn
- Posts: 616
- Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2003 3:57 pm
- Location: painting the null stone on my archmage
Xizor wrote:Hey,
Im too tired after work to bother with writing up the second game tonight, Ill definately try to do it tomorrow, as I think it was a pretty exciting battle with some good moments! Also I just had an internal error so am going to have to try and wrote what I had all over again....so so annoying!!!
If you write a long post, save it in word before you post it, people seem to be getting quite a few internal errors at the minute.
Gary, I would be a little upset if that selected statement suprised you! Id like to think you know me well enough to expect such things!!
I found trio of Staffs a right pain to be honest, and often found myself saving my dispel dice purely for the bound spells. I did forget to mention my thoughts, that already his list is very clearly a "soft" Daemon list, it still seemed pretty strong, durable and highly resiliant. But maybe thats just me out of practise and wanting to make myself feel better about my win. As correctly stated, I find it very nice to get a win with an army on its first outing, especially when its an army im looking to pursue a long and successfull career with!
A common complaint about the daemon book is you could construct a list using a random generator, and it would still be pretty hard. Three staffs is nasty (its worse with a level 4 great unclean one). congrats on the win though.
That BSB seems good. Though I maybe wasnt aware he could have a Lance & Enchanted Shield aswell as his banner. Oh, that brings me on to something else; I want people to know that im not some utter newbie that knows nothing (or is that debatable?!
I agree on the point of the Ring of Hotek. It would be very easy for me to start chopping and changing after a few games. But I am confident the basic build I have here is decent, and can work. My only major concerns at the moment are the Null Talismans on the general.
As for the naughty Assassin trick, well, I shall probably use it from time to time, where...um, appropriate
Its not nice, DON'T do it.
That is how I used the Hydras in both games, having read and referenced all the pages youve quoted anyway. I just wanted to check as it felt a bit too good! Cheers for the confirmation on the Beastmasters attacks.
Marauder Mitch (from some random part of my memory I'm wanting to call you Rob...), I share your opinion on the Ring and Assassin. I really want them in my list, and will endeavour to work at making them work!
As for the other game, you'll have to wait and see! As a sort of preview, here is what he took;
Level 4, Level 2, BSB, Wardancer Noble, Glade Guard, 2x Dryads, 2x Wardancers, 2x Wild Riders, Treeman, Waywatchers.
Feel free to post what you think might of happened, or indeed what i shouldve done. In fact I encourage that, would be interesting.
I also want to see some different and new faces having a little post on this thread. I love input from everyone and want to hear as many opinions as possible. Remember this list is in no way set in stone yet. This isnt to say I want the likes of Dark Alliance to stop posting as much! Sorry, no let off for you Gary
Finally, after reading a couple of my posts I have noticed a pretty poor level in my grammar and spelling. Im putting this down to a new laptop - I cant stand not having a proper keyboard!
Cheers,
Chris
X
Hey,
George, thanks alot, three comments, all of which very different but very usefull. I was sortve kidding with the Assassin thing, tho Im sure there are times and people that may require I call upon. Nice to know its there if needbe. As a rule Im not that sort of player.
The saving of posts is a very wise piece of advice. Im on it now!
As for Daemons, we are most certainly agreed there. Guess I need to face a real list though, huh?
Ok, suppose I better put up that second report then. I wont spam my list again, once each page should be enough
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Game 2 - vs Wood Elves
Another game vs a mate, Dom is a good player and luckily for me has loads of armies so without having to search for opponents I can play a variety of armies (Though its definately important to play different players!). He normally fields pretty tough builds, but is relatively new to Woodies, we shall be improving his list next time I see him. Any tips you guys can give to help this would be great.
I mentioned his list before, but here it is again;
Level 4, Level 2, BSB, Wardancer Noble, Glade Guard, 2x Dryads, 2x Wild Riders (full command), 2x Wardancers, Waywatchers, Treeman
I was hugely worried about losing my General this game, I flew her behind a wood (no other suitable terrain) and used the Familiar to control my phase. Nothing else massively concerned me, though I was unsure on what best way to take down the Treeman. This game started off very well for me. I got the first turn and promptly revealed my assassin. Everything advanced pretty offensively. Magic drew a dispel scroll and all his dispel dice, I did manage to take out a few Wild Riders with a Doombolt (I really really love the Focus Familiar!). The Assassin took off with his Cloak and landed behind enemy lines, the Level two was skulking around out of a unit, thinking he was perfectly safe behind a hill and other friendly troops. Shooting phase was even better as the Assassin promptly tore apart the Level two with a fierce volley of Rending Stars. On either side of the battle field, combined fire from Shades and Dark Riders hurt the Wild Riders, leaving three left in one unit and finishing off the other. The RXBmen, not wanting to be outdone, took out 4 Glade Guard. Not too shabby I thought. A little bit shaken, his battle plan clearly a little disrupted by the surprise of the Assassin and an above average shooting phase, Dom decided to go all out and declared a number of charges. The Waywatchers went for the Harpies Id stuck infront of them, who promptly fled. Unfortunately he caught them and managed to redirect into some Dark Riders, who also fled...a massive 17" This path led them straight through my Level 4, who thankfully passed her panic check! He also charged the remaining 3 Wild Riders into a Hydra in a clever charge which I thought Id blocked off. What a crazy start! His magic phase was poor and his shooting resulted in a singled dead RXBman. In combat the Wild Riders and Hydra cancelled each other out and they stayed where they were. Turn two was as good for me as my magical superiority kicked in. My only charge was my other Harpy unit into his BSB's unit of Wardancers. Magic; I took out a couple of Watchers, some more Glade Guard (stopping both units shooting in the process) and some Dryads. Shooting saw the end of the Glade Guard. In combat he refused to let me rank three Harpies against his BSB as he ranked up around the model I contacted, sticking the BSB on the end. Clever so-and-so. Still, that solo Harpy rolled two 5's to hit, and two 5's to wounds. His BSB failed both saves. Winner!! Afterwards we realised he shoulda picked the ASF dance, but as it was, even with the extra attacks they only killed 3 Harpies anyhow!! He ran down the rest. His turn; The Wardancers took the bait of the Cold One Knights who had "accidently" stood in charge range of them! Magic let him move some woods around. Treeman took out some Dark Riders with his silly shooty move. The Standard of Hag Graef took him by suprise as the Knights took down the Wardancers. From this point I was sure I was onto a good victory, probably even a Massacre. However, I think I did too much too early, as the rest of the game resulting in my killing little more - a Hydra took two turns to kill 3 Waywatchers! About a bajillion crossbow shots took one wound off the seemingly invincible Treeman, who was racking up VP's with his silly shooty move (thats the right name isnt it?!). Then it went really tits up as a massive series of miscasts (NOT due to Ring of Hotek, which incidently worked well this game) resulted in a dead Level 2 and half points on my General! Weird. Thinks its due to Power of Darkness making me throw so many dice at everything! Anyway, the second half of the game was frustrating and thats how it went. Luckily I had done alot of damage very early on, so...
Victory Points; 1257/786
Minor Vicotory to The Heartless
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, is that more satisfactory as a report? I know I shouldve formatted it better (turns etc), but hey. Here are some more thoughts;
*If you remember Hatred, its pretty good.
*Null Talismans probably arent worth it on the Level 4
*Ring of Hotek is definately worth keeping, I think overall its 2/2 now or my miscasts / opponents miscasts!
*About the Standard of Hag Graef; should I have declared I had it before his Wardancers picked their dance? Cos I didnt...
*Also, do the mounts gain ASF from it?
*How do I kill a Treeman? Not be a pussy and throw a Hydra at him? Get lucky with shooting/magic? How would the Knights do?
*Assassin is fun, but once my opponents know my list I believe his use might lower. For Tournaments could still be effective though.
Im sure theres more, but this post has taken far longer than I wanted it too, and I gotta be up for work in under 6 hours!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Games Played: 2 / Won: 2 / Drawn: 0 / Lost: 0
Daemons of Chaos: 1 / Won: 1 / Drawn: 0 / Lost: 0
Wood Elves: 1 / Won: 1 / Drawn: 0 / Lost: 0
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Im also going to start posting in other peoples army list threads soon. Just wanted to get a game under my belt with the new book before throwing out "advice"!
Gimme some feedback,
Night night,
Chris
X
George, thanks alot, three comments, all of which very different but very usefull. I was sortve kidding with the Assassin thing, tho Im sure there are times and people that may require I call upon. Nice to know its there if needbe. As a rule Im not that sort of player.
The saving of posts is a very wise piece of advice. Im on it now!
As for Daemons, we are most certainly agreed there. Guess I need to face a real list though, huh?
Ok, suppose I better put up that second report then. I wont spam my list again, once each page should be enough
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Game 2 - vs Wood Elves
Another game vs a mate, Dom is a good player and luckily for me has loads of armies so without having to search for opponents I can play a variety of armies (Though its definately important to play different players!). He normally fields pretty tough builds, but is relatively new to Woodies, we shall be improving his list next time I see him. Any tips you guys can give to help this would be great.
I mentioned his list before, but here it is again;
Level 4, Level 2, BSB, Wardancer Noble, Glade Guard, 2x Dryads, 2x Wild Riders (full command), 2x Wardancers, Waywatchers, Treeman
I was hugely worried about losing my General this game, I flew her behind a wood (no other suitable terrain) and used the Familiar to control my phase. Nothing else massively concerned me, though I was unsure on what best way to take down the Treeman. This game started off very well for me. I got the first turn and promptly revealed my assassin. Everything advanced pretty offensively. Magic drew a dispel scroll and all his dispel dice, I did manage to take out a few Wild Riders with a Doombolt (I really really love the Focus Familiar!). The Assassin took off with his Cloak and landed behind enemy lines, the Level two was skulking around out of a unit, thinking he was perfectly safe behind a hill and other friendly troops
. Shooting phase was even better as the Assassin promptly tore apart the Level two with a fierce volley of Rending Stars. On either side of the battle field, combined fire from Shades and Dark Riders hurt the Wild Riders, leaving three left in one unit and finishing off the other. The RXBmen, not wanting to be outdone, took out 4 Glade Guard. Not too shabby I thought. A little bit shaken, his battle plan clearly a little disrupted by the surprise of the Assassin and an above average shooting phase, Dom decided to go all out and declared a number of charges. The Waywatchers went for the Harpies Id stuck infront of them, who promptly fled. Unfortunately he caught them and managed to redirect into some Dark Riders, who also fled...a massive 17" This path led them straight through my Level 4, who thankfully passed her panic check! He also charged the remaining 3 Wild Riders into a Hydra in a clever charge which I thought Id blocked off. What a crazy start! His magic phase was poor and his shooting resulted in a singled dead RXBman. In combat the Wild Riders and Hydra cancelled each other out and they stayed where they were. Turn two was as good for me as my magical superiority kicked in. My only charge was my other Harpy unit into his BSB's unit of Wardancers. Magic; I took out a couple of Watchers, some more Glade Guard (stopping both units shooting in the process) and some Dryads. Shooting saw the end of the Glade Guard. In combat he refused to let me rank three Harpies against his BSB as he ranked up around the model I contacted, sticking the BSB on the end. Clever so-and-so. Still, that solo Harpy rolled two 5's to hit, and two 5's to wounds. His BSB failed both saves. Winner!! Afterwards we realised he shoulda picked the ASF dance, but as it was, even with the extra attacks they only killed 3 Harpies anyhow!! He ran down the rest. His turn; The Wardancers took the bait of the Cold One Knights who had "accidently" stood in charge range of them! Magic let him move some woods around. Treeman took out some Dark Riders with his silly shooty move. The Standard of Hag Graef took him by suprise as the Knights took down the Wardancers. From this point I was sure I was onto a good victory, probably even a Massacre. However, I think I did too much too early, as the rest of the game resulting in my killing little more - a Hydra took two turns to kill 3 Waywatchers! About a bajillion crossbow shots took one wound off the seemingly invincible Treeman, who was racking up VP's with his silly shooty move (thats the right name isnt it?!). Then it went really tits up as a massive series of miscasts (NOT due to Ring of Hotek, which incidently worked well this game) resulted in a dead Level 2 and half points on my General! Weird. Thinks its due to Power of Darkness making me throw so many dice at everything! Anyway, the second half of the game was frustrating and thats how it went. Luckily I had done alot of damage very early on, so...
Victory Points; 1257/786
Minor Vicotory to The Heartless
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, is that more satisfactory as a report? I know I shouldve formatted it better (turns etc), but hey. Here are some more thoughts;
*If you remember Hatred, its pretty good.
*Null Talismans probably arent worth it on the Level 4
*Ring of Hotek is definately worth keeping, I think overall its 2/2 now or my miscasts / opponents miscasts!
*About the Standard of Hag Graef; should I have declared I had it before his Wardancers picked their dance? Cos I didnt...
*Also, do the mounts gain ASF from it?
*How do I kill a Treeman? Not be a pussy and throw a Hydra at him? Get lucky with shooting/magic? How would the Knights do?
*Assassin is fun, but once my opponents know my list I believe his use might lower. For Tournaments could still be effective though.
Im sure theres more, but this post has taken far longer than I wanted it too, and I gotta be up for work in under 6 hours!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Games Played: 2 / Won: 2 / Drawn: 0 / Lost: 0
Daemons of Chaos: 1 / Won: 1 / Drawn: 0 / Lost: 0
Wood Elves: 1 / Won: 1 / Drawn: 0 / Lost: 0
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Im also going to start posting in other peoples army list threads soon. Just wanted to get a game under my belt with the new book before throwing out "advice"!
Gimme some feedback,
Night night,
Chris
X
*About the Standard of Hag Graef; should I have declared I had it before his Wardancers picked their dance? Cos I didnt...
=> no if you don't play open list.
*Also, do the mounts gain ASF from it?
=> yes.
*How do I kill a Treeman? Not be a pussy and throw a Hydra at him? Get lucky with shooting/magic? How would the Knights do? *
=> D.R.A.I.C.H., know your enemy.
Thanks for the report.
Keep playing and having fun (and writing more reports!).
=> no if you don't play open list.
*Also, do the mounts gain ASF from it?
=> yes.
*How do I kill a Treeman? Not be a pussy and throw a Hydra at him? Get lucky with shooting/magic? How would the Knights do? *
=> D.R.A.I.C.H., know your enemy.
Thanks for the report.
Keep playing and having fun (and writing more reports!).
Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}
-
Geoguswrek
- Highborn
- Posts: 616
- Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2003 3:57 pm
- Location: painting the null stone on my archmage
Xizor wrote:Hey,
George, thanks alot, three comments, all of which very different but very usefull. I was sortve kidding with the Assassin thing, tho Im sure there are times and people that may require I call upon. Nice to know its there if needbe. As a rule Im not that sort of player.
yeh i know. I remember you a bit from the old days. its ok against daemons i guess. And people you don't like and never want to play again.
The saving of posts is a very wise piece of advice. Im on it now! DA suggested it in another post a few weeks back
As for Daemons, we are most certainly agreed there. Guess I need to face a real list though, huh?
It is still a hard-ish list, those staffs are horrible. playing really hard daemon lists isnt fun at all.
Ok, suppose I better put up that second report then. I wont spam my list again, once each page should be enough
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Game 2 - vs Wood Elves
Another game vs a mate, Dom is a good player and luckily for me has loads of armies so without having to search for opponents I can play a variety of armies (Though its definately important to play different players!). He normally fields pretty tough builds, but is relatively new to Woodies, we shall be improving his list next time I see him. Any tips you guys can give to help this would be great.
I mentioned his list before, but here it is again;
Level 4, Level 2, BSB, Wardancer Noble, Glade Guard, 2x Dryads, 2x Wild Riders (full command), 2x Wardancers, Waywatchers, Treeman.
Seems pretty standard magic heavy list. im hoping calaingor's on the level 2?Also, who had Hail of doom arrow cos it doesn't look like it would be anywhere
I was hugely worried about losing my General this game, I flew her behind a wood (no other suitable terrain) and used the Familiar to control my phase. Nothing else massively concerned me, though I was unsure on what best way to take down the Treeman. Remember you can take lore of metal, one spirit of the forge/several RoBI's should do the trick, though dark magic is better oh and you can do something with the assasin's s7 throwing stars... but you have to give him a unit to hide in or the treeman's silly move and shoot. This game started off very well for me. I got the first turn and promptly revealed my assassin. Everything advanced pretty offensively. Magic drew a dispel scroll and all his dispel dice, I did manage to take out a few Wild Riders with a Doombolt (I really really love the Focus Familiar!). The Assassin took off with his Cloak and landed behind enemy lines, the Level two was skulking around out of a unit, thinking he was perfectly safe behind a hill and other friendly troops
Victory Points; 1257/786
Minor Vicotory to The Heartless
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, is that more satisfactory as a report? I know I shouldve formatted it better (turns etc), but hey. Here are some more thoughts;
*If you remember Hatred, its pretty good.
*Null Talismans probably arent worth it on the Level 4
Probably not
*Ring of Hotek is definately worth keeping, I think overall its 2/2 now or my miscasts / opponents miscasts!
it was never gonna do that much against the daemons with only level 1's
*About the Standard of Hag Graef; should I have declared I had it before his Wardancers picked their dance? Cos I didnt... i don't think so
*Also, do the mounts gain ASF from it? yes
*How do I kill a Treeman? Not be a pussy and throw a Hydra at him? Get lucky with shooting/magic? How would the Knights do? Badly. as above metal magic/assasin throwing stars are the best chances you have.
*Assassin is fun, but once my opponents know my list I believe his use might lower. For Tournaments could still be effective though. he will still be useful because you deploy him after they've deployed their army. so you still get the surprise factor.
Im sure theres more, but this post has taken far longer than I wanted it too, and I gotta be up for work in under 6 hours!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Games Played: 2 / Won: 2 / Drawn: 0 / Lost: 0
Daemons of Chaos: 1 / Won: 1 / Drawn: 0 / Lost: 0
Wood Elves: 1 / Won: 1 / Drawn: 0 / Lost: 0
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Im also going to start posting in other peoples army list threads soon. Just wanted to get a game under my belt with the new book before throwing out "advice"!
Gimme some feedback,
Night night,
Chris
X
Hey,
Calisson, thanks for the confirmation of the Standard of Hag Graef
geoguswrek, I think youve got the right idea on where & when I might consider the Assassin thing, GT might be another place. Dunno. Agreed on the Staffs of Nurgle. Multiples of things like that is not nice! Imma get him to field a tougher list against me in a week or so. Looking forward to that one...
The Wood Elf list was, of course, packing Calingors Stave, but, oddly, not the Hail of Doom arrow. He said he didnt know where to fit it into this list. Unless im mistaken the BSB or Wardancer Noble cant take it can they? I think he might need to lose the Wardancer for someone who can have it. Im gonna work with him on this list next time I see him, cos he has FC on both Wild Rider units and things like that, which probably arent necessary.
One thing I need to do is refresh my memory of what the other lores available are like, Im sure ill mostly go with Dark Magic, but it is nice to know your options, right? I figured I maybe shouldve tried to get the Assassin into a position to start throwing stars at the Treeman. Bit of an error there perhaps?
As for your comment about his magic phase being overcosted and not doing much apart from moving trees...Yup, totally agree on that, and I have often thought this about Wood Elves, not with seasoned tournament players at the helm, but even good club players still do it. Just get obsessed with moving trees to no real effect. Is Life lore sometimes more effective?
It was certainly a massive error to not choose ASF on the Wardancers, but you live and learn, he wont do it again, so ill have to come up with another plan! Luring people into a charge on the Cold One Knights is something I can see myself trying to do quite a bit, and more than obvious "trick", but still, its new to me, and I like it!
As for killing my own casters, yeah I know, it was very silly. But im just finding my feet and supposed I wanted to see how far I could push it?! Ok, thats a crap excuse, I should know better
Thankyou for the confirmation on all the bits at the bottom of my post.
On the subject of Null Talismans, I shall look into that in the next few days, suffice to say I think they are out. Ideas for replacements? Doesnt have to be more stuff for the General. I know DA is gonna suggest the Black Dragon Egg, I just dunno about it. Though I should know better than to doubt him, huh?
Calisson, thanks for the confirmation of the Standard of Hag Graef
geoguswrek, I think youve got the right idea on where & when I might consider the Assassin thing, GT might be another place. Dunno. Agreed on the Staffs of Nurgle. Multiples of things like that is not nice! Imma get him to field a tougher list against me in a week or so. Looking forward to that one...
The Wood Elf list was, of course, packing Calingors Stave, but, oddly, not the Hail of Doom arrow. He said he didnt know where to fit it into this list. Unless im mistaken the BSB or Wardancer Noble cant take it can they? I think he might need to lose the Wardancer for someone who can have it. Im gonna work with him on this list next time I see him, cos he has FC on both Wild Rider units and things like that, which probably arent necessary.
One thing I need to do is refresh my memory of what the other lores available are like, Im sure ill mostly go with Dark Magic, but it is nice to know your options, right? I figured I maybe shouldve tried to get the Assassin into a position to start throwing stars at the Treeman. Bit of an error there perhaps?
As for your comment about his magic phase being overcosted and not doing much apart from moving trees...Yup, totally agree on that, and I have often thought this about Wood Elves, not with seasoned tournament players at the helm, but even good club players still do it. Just get obsessed with moving trees to no real effect. Is Life lore sometimes more effective?
It was certainly a massive error to not choose ASF on the Wardancers, but you live and learn, he wont do it again, so ill have to come up with another plan! Luring people into a charge on the Cold One Knights is something I can see myself trying to do quite a bit, and more than obvious "trick", but still, its new to me, and I like it!
As for killing my own casters, yeah I know, it was very silly. But im just finding my feet and supposed I wanted to see how far I could push it?! Ok, thats a crap excuse, I should know better
Thankyou for the confirmation on all the bits at the bottom of my post.
On the subject of Null Talismans, I shall look into that in the next few days, suffice to say I think they are out. Ideas for replacements? Doesnt have to be more stuff for the General. I know DA is gonna suggest the Black Dragon Egg, I just dunno about it. Though I should know better than to doubt him, huh?
-
Dark Alliance
- Morathi's Favoured
- Posts: 9741
- Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 1:29 pm
- Location: In the paintshop
This is a typical Wood Elf army and one regularly used by Martin Bunting who won the UK Masters this year...
Level 4 - 3 scrolls, Ranu's Heartstone
BSB - Hail of Doom
3 x 10 Glade Guard
3 x 8 Dryads
5 Wild Riders - std, war banner
2 x 7 Wardancers - m
Treeman
5 Waywatchers
It works Chris, and it works well mate. Get your friend to use it against you and see for yourself. Martin takes Lore of Life quite often and it is very effective.
As for how to kill a Treeman, Chris if you are going to get back into tournaments then I think you need to seriously start thinking about dropping a Hydra and putting in 2 RBTs. This solves your Treeman problem, among others such as force threats on BTs etc, and also gets you used to an army that will be acceptable on the tournament scene.
Most independant tournaments have comp of some kind. These will either reject your list coz it has 2 Hydras, or heavily penalise your score for having them.
Level 4 - 3 scrolls, Ranu's Heartstone
BSB - Hail of Doom
3 x 10 Glade Guard
3 x 8 Dryads
5 Wild Riders - std, war banner
2 x 7 Wardancers - m
Treeman
5 Waywatchers
It works Chris, and it works well mate. Get your friend to use it against you and see for yourself. Martin takes Lore of Life quite often and it is very effective.
As for how to kill a Treeman, Chris if you are going to get back into tournaments then I think you need to seriously start thinking about dropping a Hydra and putting in 2 RBTs. This solves your Treeman problem, among others such as force threats on BTs etc, and also gets you used to an army that will be acceptable on the tournament scene.
Most independant tournaments have comp of some kind. These will either reject your list coz it has 2 Hydras, or heavily penalise your score for having them.
-
Druchii77
- Purveyor of Pain
- Posts: 1721
- Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:24 am
- Location: Wherever the fight is
I know this sounds like a less that optimal use of magic lore, but I have also found that fire lore works wonders on treemen. He will have a 4+ armor save, but on a D6 S4 or 2D6 S4 missile you will slip a wound or two through and then you double the wounds since he is flammable. It is also a great damage lore against the rest of the army.
castrensis in totus res
Fight my Brutehttp://suckerpunch77.mybrute.com
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Fight my Brutehttp://suckerpunch77.mybrute.com
Try Evony!http://zao77s.evony.com
Dark Alliance wrote:This is a typical Wood Elf army and one regularly used by Martin Bunting who won the UK Masters this year...
Level 4 - 3 scrolls, Ranu's Heartstone
BSB - Hail of Doom
3 x 10 Glade Guard
3 x 8 Dryads
5 Wild Riders - std, war banner
2 x 7 Wardancers - m
Treeman
5 Waywatchers
It works Chris, and it works well mate. Get your friend to use it against you and see for yourself. Martin takes Lore of Life quite often and it is very effective.
I cant remember what the Heartstone does, but I can see thats a more than decent list. Ill pass it on to Dom. Cheers
As for how to kill a Treeman, Chris if you are going to get back into tournaments then I think you need to seriously start thinking about dropping a Hydra and putting in 2 RBTs. This solves your Treeman problem, among others such as force threats on BTs etc, and also gets you used to an army that will be acceptable on the tournament scene.
Most independant tournaments have comp of some kind. These will either reject your list coz it has 2 Hydras, or heavily penalise your score for having them.
Ok you have me convinced that its the right thing to do for the long run. This also helps me decide what to do with the points from dropping the Null Talismans. Revised list will follow.
druchii77 wrote:I know this sounds like a less that optimal use of magic lore, but I have also found that fire lore works wonders on treemen. He will have a 4+ armor save, but on a D6 S4 or 2D6 S4 missile you will slip a wound or two through and then you double the wounds since he is flammable. It is also a great damage lore against the rest of the army.
I must say that Fire Lore was actually one of my initial thoughts for this problem. S4 against a Treeman doesnt seem great. But like you said, All those S4 missiles against the rest of the army would be pretty destructive. Porbably worth a closer look.
Ok Im just revising my main list now and Ill post again in a min.
Hey,
Ok I have decided that it is probably better if I start playing a list which Im going to be able to use at most (if not all tournaments). Im not really a fan of playing with different lists all the time. I do love the double Hydra list, but already I can see my list struggling with my opponents big monsters - Dragons, Bloodthirsters, Treemen etc. A nice pair of Bolt Throwers should help pose a threat so such models and also improve any comp score.
As mentioned in previous posts, I havent been impressed with the null talismans on Karst, my High Sorceress. The Focus Familiar is a fantastic item, and combine with the great mobility of the Pegasus means I should be able to mostly stay out of trouble. The only spells likely to hurt me will probably be AoE, not allowing the use of MR anyhow!
As the Hydra is cheaper than the pair of RBT, Ill need the points gained from dropping the Talismans to fit the war machines in.
This does leave me a few spare points, allowing me to afford the Musician on the second unit of Dark Riders. Winner. Anyway, cast your eye over the new, improved(?), list;
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-The Heartless-
2,000 point Dark Elf Army
Karst Ether'Rage (Supreme Sorceress) - Level 4, Dark Pegasus, Focus Familiar, Dispel Scroll. (360)
Menardi Qel Droma (Sorceress) - Level 2, Dark Steed, Darkstar Cloak, Dispel Scroll. (197)
5 Dark Riders - Repeater Crossbows, Musician. (117)
5 Dark Riders - Repeater Crossbows, Musician. (117)
10 Repeater Crossbowmen - Shields. (110)
2 Reaper Bolt Throwers (200)
5 Harpies (55)
5 Harpies (55)
5 Shades (80)
6 Shades - Great Weapons. (108)
Cyuss (Assassin) - Additional Hand Weapon, Rending Stars, Manbane, Cloak of Twilight. (171)
6 Cold One Knights - Standard Bearer & Champion, Ring of Hotek, Standard of Hag Graef. (254)
War Hydra (175)
Total; 1,999 points
Power Dice; 9 + Cloak of Twilight
Dispel Dice; 5 + 2 Scrolls
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if there is anything I would really like on Karst instead of the Talismans, though if this were the case I'd have to find 24pts for the RBT's elsewhere..
Let me know your thoughts.
Chris
Ok I have decided that it is probably better if I start playing a list which Im going to be able to use at most (if not all tournaments). Im not really a fan of playing with different lists all the time. I do love the double Hydra list, but already I can see my list struggling with my opponents big monsters - Dragons, Bloodthirsters, Treemen etc. A nice pair of Bolt Throwers should help pose a threat so such models and also improve any comp score.
As mentioned in previous posts, I havent been impressed with the null talismans on Karst, my High Sorceress. The Focus Familiar is a fantastic item, and combine with the great mobility of the Pegasus means I should be able to mostly stay out of trouble. The only spells likely to hurt me will probably be AoE, not allowing the use of MR anyhow!
As the Hydra is cheaper than the pair of RBT, Ill need the points gained from dropping the Talismans to fit the war machines in.
This does leave me a few spare points, allowing me to afford the Musician on the second unit of Dark Riders. Winner. Anyway, cast your eye over the new, improved(?), list;
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-The Heartless-
2,000 point Dark Elf Army
Karst Ether'Rage (Supreme Sorceress) - Level 4, Dark Pegasus, Focus Familiar, Dispel Scroll. (360)
Menardi Qel Droma (Sorceress) - Level 2, Dark Steed, Darkstar Cloak, Dispel Scroll. (197)
5 Dark Riders - Repeater Crossbows, Musician. (117)
5 Dark Riders - Repeater Crossbows, Musician. (117)
10 Repeater Crossbowmen - Shields. (110)
2 Reaper Bolt Throwers (200)
5 Harpies (55)
5 Harpies (55)
5 Shades (80)
6 Shades - Great Weapons. (108)
Cyuss (Assassin) - Additional Hand Weapon, Rending Stars, Manbane, Cloak of Twilight. (171)
6 Cold One Knights - Standard Bearer & Champion, Ring of Hotek, Standard of Hag Graef. (254)
War Hydra (175)
Total; 1,999 points
Power Dice; 9 + Cloak of Twilight
Dispel Dice; 5 + 2 Scrolls
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if there is anything I would really like on Karst instead of the Talismans, though if this were the case I'd have to find 24pts for the RBT's elsewhere..
Let me know your thoughts.
Chris
Last edited by Xizor on Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Geoguswrek
- Highborn
- Posts: 616
- Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2003 3:57 pm
- Location: painting the null stone on my archmage
Chris: to get the BSB to have the Hail of doom, i think (but am not sure) that you have to buy the cheap magic bow first.
As to your list if you are looking for points to trick out the level 4, you can always drop a dispel scroll (and get by on 1 scroll, 5 dice and active mage hunting + RoH) or you can drop the great weapons on the shades, and a single shade, this should give you the points for an item of some sort.
However i'm nto convinced you need any items, the list should be ok without and there isn't anything glaringly obvious to buy. maybe the pendant? you have the spare character slot (under ETC rules the pendant takes a hero slot), it is only 35 points and it does protect the level 4 quite nicely (especially from cannons).
OTher suggestions would be:
a power stone (you use all your dice, and the cloak, then use the powerstone ((the enemy will have used all his dice) to cast PoD, giving you d3+1 dice, which you can then use to cast sometihng (like chillwind perhaps?).
the black dragon egg: DA will love you, and the breath weapon isn't bad.
The ITP item: you shouldn't ever be fleeing, but you will have to take terror/panic tests you can't afford to fail. Also has the advantage of protecting you from annoying WoC slanesh magic (most the good spells don't effect ITP units)
Life taker: lets the sorc do something in the shooting phase, wouldn't suggest it though, because the level 4 is meant to hide.
a dispel scroll: you can never have to many dispel scrolls!
the seal of ghrond: extra DD, giving you six so you can stop 2 medium spells, or one big spell and a bound item
one final point: toy about with the tome of furion on the level 2, you have tons of dice and PoD, so you don't really need the extra dice, but the extra spell is often quite useful.
As to your list if you are looking for points to trick out the level 4, you can always drop a dispel scroll (and get by on 1 scroll, 5 dice and active mage hunting + RoH) or you can drop the great weapons on the shades, and a single shade, this should give you the points for an item of some sort.
However i'm nto convinced you need any items, the list should be ok without and there isn't anything glaringly obvious to buy. maybe the pendant? you have the spare character slot (under ETC rules the pendant takes a hero slot), it is only 35 points and it does protect the level 4 quite nicely (especially from cannons).
OTher suggestions would be:
a power stone (you use all your dice, and the cloak, then use the powerstone ((the enemy will have used all his dice) to cast PoD, giving you d3+1 dice, which you can then use to cast sometihng (like chillwind perhaps?).
the black dragon egg: DA will love you, and the breath weapon isn't bad.
The ITP item: you shouldn't ever be fleeing, but you will have to take terror/panic tests you can't afford to fail. Also has the advantage of protecting you from annoying WoC slanesh magic (most the good spells don't effect ITP units)
Life taker: lets the sorc do something in the shooting phase, wouldn't suggest it though, because the level 4 is meant to hide.
a dispel scroll: you can never have to many dispel scrolls!
the seal of ghrond: extra DD, giving you six so you can stop 2 medium spells, or one big spell and a bound item
one final point: toy about with the tome of furion on the level 2, you have tons of dice and PoD, so you don't really need the extra dice, but the extra spell is often quite useful.
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Dark Alliance
- Morathi's Favoured
- Posts: 9741
- Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 1:29 pm
- Location: In the paintshop
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Deathmonkey
- Slave (off the Altar)
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:13 am
Are you sure you really want hotek in this list?
especially on your CoK?
how i see it is you will want to get the CoK into your opponents battle line, which means you won't want to target anything within 12" with a spell that casts on 2 or more dice.
especially on your CoK?
how i see it is you will want to get the CoK into your opponents battle line, which means you won't want to target anything within 12" with a spell that casts on 2 or more dice.
Last edited by Deathmonkey on Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Geoguswrek
- Highborn
- Posts: 616
- Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2003 3:57 pm
- Location: painting the null stone on my archmage
Hey,
I am pretty tired now and need some sleep after a heavy weekend! Im going to have a good think about the points raised and the overall selection of Magic Items in my army tomorrow and post something constructive then!
Just wanted to acknowledge the posts made today. Given me some food for thought. I believe that deathmonkey might have a point, and must admit it is one of my main fears/concerns with the list.
So are we all agreed that 1 Hydra and 2 RBTs is the right way to go with the list?
Night.
I am pretty tired now and need some sleep after a heavy weekend! Im going to have a good think about the points raised and the overall selection of Magic Items in my army tomorrow and post something constructive then!
Just wanted to acknowledge the posts made today. Given me some food for thought. I believe that deathmonkey might have a point, and must admit it is one of my main fears/concerns with the list.
So are we all agreed that 1 Hydra and 2 RBTs is the right way to go with the list?
Night.