2250 tourney list,vs lizards,HE,DW

[Breadlord]

I am about to play against those armies and the restrictions are the following:

1 non catser,
up to 2 same special choices,
not doublicated rare choices,
up to 3 flyers,
up to 3chariots.

I need to have an all around list, and the first one I could think of, is this:

2 RBT -- 200pts

1 War Hydra -- 175pts

2 x 10 Crossbowmen -- 200pts

1 x 7 Harpies -- 77pts
1 x 6 Harpies -- 66pts (I had to get rid off one...)

1 x 5 Shades -- 90pts
+ great weapon

1 x 15 Blackguards -- 265pts
+ command
+ Standard of Hag Graef

1 x 15 Blackguards -- 230pts
+ command

2 x 10 Black Arc Corsairs -- 200pts

1 x Sorceress -- 185pts
+ lvl 2
+ Dispel Scroll
+ Darkstar Cloak

1 x Sorceress -- 125pts
+ Dispel Scroll

1 x Dreadlord -- 435pts
+ Armor of Darkness
+ Pendant of Khaeleth
+ Caledor's Bane
+ Manticore

Total: 2248pts

Any suggestions?

[Red...]

Sorry if this is me being thick witted, but what are DW?

Dwarf warriors?
Dogs of War?
Daemons of War?
Dark War Hydras?

[Breadlord]

Sorry if this is me being thick witted, but what are DW?

Dwarf warriors?
Dogs of War?
Daemons of War?
Dark War Hydras?

High Elves, Lizardmen, Dwarves

[Pewpewkith]

not so good list tbh.low magic,low infantry strenght,no cavalries...
seems like you haven't decided if you gonna use magic or brute force.

[Pewpewkith]

its a low restriction tournament so i whould try use some powerfull combinations.such as 2 manticores,as it's free on dreadlord,or 3 casters.

if i whould go melee,i whould use:

dreadlord on manticore-435
pendant of khaeleth
armour of darkness
caledors bane

master on manticore-325
eternal servitude
shield
sea dragon cloak
lance

caddy-150

2x10 xbowmen-100x2=200
2x6 DR+xbows-132x2=264
6 harpies-66

2x6shades-96x2=192
2x10 executioners-120x2=240 (maybe replace with 2 chariots is a good idea.it saves you 40pts,they give you fear,impact hits,etc but has stupidity and you lose KB)

hydra-175
2xRBT-200

fast list,everything can support each other,easy to play,3 terror causing,high str hits,lot of shooting.


if i whould go magic,i whould use:

supreme-350
lvl4
pendant of khaeleth
black staff

sorceress-185
lvl2
darkstar cloak
dscroll

sorceress-185
lvl2
familiar
dscroll

master-136
lifetaker
heavy armour
shield
sea dragon cloak
lance
dark steed

2x10 xbowmen-100x2=200
2x10 warrior+shield-70x2=140
7 DR+xbows-154
3x8 harpies-3x88=264

2x8 shades-128x2=256

hydra-175
2xRBT-100x2=200

heavy magic,many shooting model,3 flyer harpies that can march block,hunt siege machines,redirect units,or engage them,2 scout units that can also march block,hunt siege machines etc,plus shoot,warriors to protect casters or support hydra,master can join shooters,DRs or warriors,DRs can support hyrda and are perfect flank chargers...

[Red...]

some powerfull combinations.such as 2 manticores,

What? That's not powerful, that's twice as soft as 1 manticore.

The majority of armies would deal with them very easily. Warmachines would rip them apart, whereas even normal archers could do them lots of damage:

Turn 1:
30 high elf archers (e.g. 3 units of 10 or 2 units of 15)
Hitting at long range (-1) at a large target (+1) on 3s = 20 hits
Wounding on 5s = 6.6666 wounds
Randomising (1-4 = manti, 5-6 = rider) = 4.4444 wounds on the manti. Manti dead.

Turn 2:
Other manti dead.

Impact: 400 points gone and your 2 most important characters walking alone across the battlefield. Borrow £5 for a cab anyone?

[Pewpewkith]

LOL,30 archers are HE problem,not ours..
also dont forget that they don't need to get into combat in 1st round,hide them or make a small round so when they come in combat at about round 3 and with a charge they will pawn everything...

[Pewpewkith]

did i forgot to mention that when something becomes a shooting magnet,there comes aaaaaaall the others?
everyone must know to hide something that he must and bring it in combat when and the way it must come.or at least try to learn.
i also have to ask,who ends his fights with no losts?

[Red...]

LOL,30 archers are HE problem,not ours..

?? That made no sense. Breadlord is playing against HE, so clearly the units they could bring to battle ARE our problem.

Also, that's just one example. His dwarf opponent will probably have a much nastier gunline and his HEs are bound to have at least 1 Bolt thrower.

hide them

You can't hide Mantis easily, they are large targets so can basically be seen from anywhere on the board (unless they manage to lurk behind trees, but then they have no LOS and can't get the charge on anyone.)

with a charge they will pawn everything...

Unless your opponent shrewdly decides to allocate his attacks against the Manti (just T5 and no armour save), kills it and then either wins the combat on SCR or by outnumbering and being a fear causing enemy (if they cause fear).

did i forgot to mention that when something becomes a shooting magnet,there comes aaaaaaall the others?

All the other what? Sorry, this statement isn't clear at all.

everyone must know to hide something that he must and bring it in combat when and the way it must come.or at least try to learn.

I assume you're saying that everyone has to have good abilities at hiding important models/units and getting them into combat at the right time, or else they should learn to? Assuming that's what you mean, I agree, but taking large target, low toughness monsters is just not that effective imo.

i also have to ask,who ends his fights with no losts?

I have to answer with a different question: who enters his fights intending to lose troops?




Breadlord, I actually found your original list quite good. I would put the dreadlord either on a dragon (T6, 3+ save) or a pegasus (just 50 points, not a large target). Mantis are very easy to kill, suffer from uncontrollable (just when you need it least) and are just generally soft.

Going down the list:

2 Rpt Blts: Good choice. Gives you some good killing power against enemy monsters

1 Hydra: Good choice. Because, well, Hydras are awesome. Just be careful of those warmachines and flaming attacks.

2x10 crossbowmen. Good solid choice, but give them shields so they get 4+ save in h2h and 5+ against ranged.

Harpies: They make a lot of sense against the dwarves (good for warmachine hunting) although they may struggle against the ASF HEs.

Shades: Again, good warmachine hunters and charge blockers. 5 is quite few (they die easy) so keep an eye on them. Don't charge them against the HEs unless you will win easily (warmachines).

The two blackguard units. Good, solid infantry and you will keep the HE guessing as to which has ASF. That said, the one without it will need to be played skillfully to maximise its use. I'd put them as units of 14 (2x7 rather than 3x5) as that way they get 4 extra attacks, cost 13 points each less, just for 1 SCR (which you would likely lose anyway to arrow fire). Give one of the tower masters the ring of hotek to cope with hostile magic (of which the Lizzies and HEs are bound to have lots of...).

I'd think about what you want the black corsairs to do. Are they screening troops? Charge supporters? Heavy infantry? If they dont have a clear role then at 2 units of 10 they could be a waste. Personally I'd swap these out for a big block of warriors including an assassin with rune of khaine.

Your magic looks a bit confused. You have 1 lvl 2 with cloak and 1 level 1 scroll caddy. I'd go all magic (at least a level 4 and 2) or none at all (scroll caddy and ring of hotek).

Hope that helps a bit

[Pewpewkith]

time to stop arguement and talk about current list a bit more.
i agree with deathknight's opinion about blackguards,not quite sure if hotek is that good on a towermaster and not on a flyer.for example a master on pegasus.
i whould also drop overpriced corsairs,especially when they are 2 units of 10.if they are blockers that you dont care if they die,warriors are better solution.warriors can also do same job,as charge supporters,screening troops etc,for 30 points less.
2 casters are a waste.keep just caddy.your lvl2 will never cast.the only she can do is get you one more dispel dice,that is not a solution against any magic.she's just a waste of points.

[Pewpewkith]

btw,HE archers wound manticore on 6,not 5.
and who uses more than 2 units of 10???
but even if they are 30,they are not enough to kill manticore in first round.
20 will hit
randomise 6,66 will go for character,but lets say 6,not 7.
14 on manticore that wound on 6, this is 2,3 wounds.
IF they are 30...but they are always 20....
manticores will just have problem if dwarf player has a strong gunline,but if so,dragon whould have a problem too and generally most tournament set ups.
manticores can easi fight and will be very effective against HE and lizards.winning them and a draw or a small loss against dwarf(if he uses heavy gunline,otherwise you can win too),gives you a great advantage..