finally moving from 7th to 8th need advice(2500)

[Dark14]

Hellebron 350
Sorceress lvl4 tome of furion 275

Sorceress lvl2 Darkstar Cloak ruby ring of ruin 185
Master Cold One Lance Heavy Armour Shield BSB Hydra Banner 210

20 Witch Elves-st/ch, rune of khaine 245
20 Corsairs-st/ch, sea serpent standard 245
10 Repeater crossbowmen 100
10 Repeater crossbowmen 100

20 Black Guard(13)-st/ch, ring of hotek 309
5 Cold One Knight(27)st/ch 167

1 War Hydra 175
1 War Hydra 175

2486

So my last edition list was rather like this(2250pts) with less crossbows and the lvl4 gone in favor of a deathhag/lvl2. What i can see from this edition is trying to win combat in the first turn might not be a good stratagy and since they can always strike back dark elves are a little hurt.

Hellbron was always the big part of this army sitting in the BG(with asf,not needed now) but can she be hit back all the time now? If so she would die round 1 to any smart opponent. That also worries me alot on the WE/Corsairs there lack of armour seems like it would make them drop like flys vs any surviving opponents. A change i was thinking of making was adding a unit of about 40 spears 10wide. High Initiative with 4ranks attacking seems like a good start this edition.

[Azimyth]

Neither 20 infantry nor 5 cavalry in a unit is really ideal in 8th. Pie plates and spells such as dwellers will remove the majority of your unit in a very short time. With no partials even the small templete is hitting 21 infantry on a perfect hit. Have a look through the list forum and you'll see most of the lists have unit sizes of 30+ for infantry blocks and 10+ for heavy cav.
Champions are not really that necessary unless you really want to give BG, COK or WE an item. Musicians on the other hand are, especially for swift reform.
You need a CoB to increase the survivabilty of your troops.
Ruby ring is a meh item, remember that bound items don't autocast in 8th.
Hellebron is ok. She must go on the corner of the unit she is in; this will minimise the attacks coming back at her.

[Rabidnid]

Too many characters I suspect. Hellbron is a sweetie, but she has taken a major hit in 8th because she will get slaughtered most games by the return attacks.

Hydra banner points are also better spend on a CoB.

Musos are indispensable on all units that can have them in 8th.

CoKs with the ASF banner do really well due to getting re-rolls from the ASF rule.

Bigger units are good. I would take 25+ witches and drop the hag and RoK as she will only last a turn in most games. BoM and a muso are very useful on the girls these days.

25+ corsairs in Horde also do well.

[Diablo]

Neither 20 infantry nor 5 cavalry in a unit is really ideal

I have to disagree. You are right when talking about execs or spears. Both of them need big unit to be able to achive something.

As for WE and corsairs, the true power is in the first rank (21-22 attacks) the support attacks are handy bonus but nothing gamechanging. WE works great for me in units of 14. The downside is they will lose 1A for each dead but as i said, since the true power is in the first rank, thats not such a problem. The plus is, that such a small unit might not get much attention and make it into CC more or less unharmed.
Corsairs i dont like much. They are expensive, there is no choice of banner, because the SSS is mandatory, and if i want unit with lots of attacks, i choose WE. So i choose spears over corsairs every time.

As for 5 cavalry you are at least in two examples. First: WoCh knights. Second and more important, since we talk about DE, 5 CoKs supported by CoB. They are cheap so can be used as sacrifical unit, with +1A they have decent punch. But the CoB is mandatory.

...

First of all, whole lores are you planning to have on those Sorceress? The ruby ring sounds to me like overkill, since you will have 7 spells...
As rabidnid mentioned, ditch that master and get CoB. You will have more durable BSB + you can use it to support ANY of your units.

[Azimyth]

Neither 20 infantry nor 5 cavalry in a unit is really ideal

I have to disagree. You are right when talking about execs or spears. Both of them need big unit to be able to achive something.
As for WE and corsairs, the true power is in the first rank (21-22 attacks) the support attacks are handy bonus but nothing gamechanging. WE works great for me in units of 14. The downside is they will lose 1A for each dead but as i said, since the true power is in the first rank, thats not such a problem. The plus is, that such a small unit might not get much attention and make it into CC more or less unharmed.
I agree that the first rank is where the power lies, but the problem is getting them to combat. At 14 strong the majority of my oppenents see them as a major threat and do their damndest to kill them. When you see the damage rocket launchers do.
Corsairs i dont like much. They are expensive, there is no choice of banner, because the SSS is mandatory, and if i want unit with lots of attacks, i choose WE. So i choose spears over corsairs every time.
Agreed. I find WE just that little bit more effective than Corsairs. Plus if you field a dagger sorc they make for cheaper power dice.

As for 5 cavalry you are at least in two examples. First: WoCh knights. Second and more important, since we talk about DE, 5 CoKs supported by CoB. They are cheap so can be used as sacrifical unit, with +1A they have decent punch.
I suppose as a sacrificial unit, but I find that whilst they hit hard in the first turn, they suffer in subsequent turns. I feel they need the extra attacks from a second rank to provide them with a fighting chance. Also having the extra models means that you aren't having to rely on the CoB for that extra punch.

But the CoB is mandatory.

Amen!

Edit: spelling

[Saintofm]

Also, Hydras. I know the current fine cast one is more expensive then the pewter one ever was, but there is ebay and if you don;t plan on tournaments of Games Workshop games, there is still this

http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/h ... /02203_w_2

[Dark14]

The death hag can not detach from the cauldron though can she? seems like a huge waste of points for a hero that will sit back and do nothing.

[Rabidnid]

The death hag can not detach from the cauldron though can she? seems like a huge waste of points for a hero that will sit back and do nothing.

Try running a CoB a couple times, and you will see why some people run 2.