BG Executioners Axe list. Updated with 4 BRs 04/09
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:38 pm
Edit: BG list and BRs appear from post #9 and down.
Hello Everyone.
Im attending a tournament this weekend, and have contemplated several lists.
The tournament is heavily comped (but also aim for a lower power level than for instance the ETC)
The most important comps are:
* 2200 Pts
* No more than 1 warmachine of each type (Bolt Throwers excluded)
* max 1 rare or 2 specials
* PoK and Crown banned
* 100pt discount on many monsters (manticore among them)
* Max 5 dice casting (incl DE) NO magic level added
* DE must choose 1 of BSB, CoB or Hydra
* Max 9 cavalry per unit, max 40 cheap models otherwise max 20 per unit.
This leads to a metagame where:
* Many low level caster with ruby ring. Few will choose high casting lores like shadow or metal. Many magic missiles expected.
MR on key units will be important. Due to many MM shades are much less interesting. Only Max 8 allowed anyway.
* Magic much less dominant as most spells will require 4+ dice to cast succesfully. This leads to fewer spells will be present and less will be cast.
Feedback scroll might be interesting, as might crystal of midnigt against the many lv1 fire mages expected.
* Many monster and other large targets present due to 100 pt discount and only 1 cannon per army.
Rending star assasin interesting, WEs (frenzy an issue though)?
* Due to low unit sizes allowed, it would not be unexpected to face deathstar comprimising of many characters (similar to ETC 2012)
Initial Testing:
I have done some testing where i experimented with a 20 ASF BG Deathstar with 2 rending star assasins, a MR3 Master, and a DL with Executioners Axe backed up by harpies and 2 large spearmen blocks.
It worked as intended, but all in all i feel that good players will simply stand off the relatively slow moving deathstar and I will either loose small or draw. This means that i will not get the big wins needed to finish in the top.
So im back to the drawing board.
Lessons Learned:
* Lack of BSB Ld rerolls is really tough.
* I was impressed with the rending star assasins. They really performed very well in a close combat list where you often operate inside their 12" range. They provided a really good solution to characters and for instance mournfangs. Their stand and shoot often intimidates the opponent to making bad decisions. Synergizes well with CoB for stubborn spearmen.
* I also found magic to be very underwhelming. You mistcast a lot due to casting with 3+ dice on practically every spell. And normally spellcaster only got off a couple of magic missiles that did not really do much. Therefore i decided to abanded magic alltogether!
After a lot of contemplating i have come up with the following lists a defensive and an offensive version:
The defensive list:
* Dreadlord, General, on Manticore, HA, Shield, Whip of agony, Ironcurse Icon, Talisman of Preservation, Cloak of Hag Graef - 349 Pts.
* Master, Lance, HA, SDC, Dark Pegasus, Black Dragon Egg, Pidgeon Plucker Pendant, Charmed Shield - 182 Pts.
* Master, Shield, SDC, Dark Pegasus, Biting Blade, Dragonbane Gem, Armour of Eternal Servitude - 181 Pts.
* Master, HA, Shield, SDC, Dark Pegasus, Sword of Might, Opal Amulet, Dragonhelm - 180 Pts.
* 20 Crossbowmen, Shields, M, C - 230 Pts.
* 14 Crossbowmen, M - 145 Pts.
* 38 Dark Elf Warriors, M, S, C, Gleaming Pennant - 248 Pts.
* 5 Harpies - 55 Pts.
* 5 Harpies - 55 Pts.
* Cold One Chariot - 100 Pts.
* Cold One Chariot - 100 Pts.
* War Hydra - 175 Pts.
* 2 Reaper Bolt Throwers - 200 Pts.
A shooting heavy list designed to sit back and grab points from the opponent at range and taunt to attempt a charge. The flying heroes and hydra will hide defensively and cover his lanes of approach, and when the time is right deliver an overwhelming charge with the chariots and or hydra to devastate one of his key units. Stupidity is an issue with no BSB, as is panic.
It is designed with the Russian Dragonlist from the ETC in mind (the Dragon is changed to a manticore in my list)
The offensive version:
* Dreadlord, General, Manticore, HA, Shield, Whip of agony, Ironcurse Icon, Talisman of Preservation, Cloak of Hag Graef - 349 Pts.
* Master, HA, SDC, Dark Pegasus, Sword of Might, Black Dragon Egg, Charmed Shield - 188 Pts.
* Master, Lance, Shield, SDC, Dark Pegasus, Dragonbane Gem, Armour of Eternal Servitude - 180 Pts.
* Assassin, Rending Stars, Manbane - 145 Pts.
* Assassin, Rending Stars, Manbane - 145 Pts.
* 5 Dark Riders, M - 92 Pts.
* 39 Dark Elf Warriors, M, S, C, Gleaming Pennant - 254 Pts.
* 38 Dark Elf Warriors, M, S, C, Std. of Eternal Flame - 253 Pts.
* 5 Harpies - 55 Pts.
* 5 Harpies - 55 Pts.
* 20 Black Guards, M, S, Std. of Murder - 306 Pts.
* War Hydra - 175 Pts.
Total: 2197
Well a list designed with a simple plan. Get charges by turn2. Move to combat asap. Simple but effective.
Im not totally satisfied with the offensive version.
Right now i like the defensive version as it imo is better designed.
But my gut feeling tells me an offensive version might be better suited for my vulnerable Manticore DL & Hydra.
My questions to you:
How do I improve the offensive list?
Which one is better in the meta?
Hello Everyone.
Im attending a tournament this weekend, and have contemplated several lists.
The tournament is heavily comped (but also aim for a lower power level than for instance the ETC)
The most important comps are:
* 2200 Pts
* No more than 1 warmachine of each type (Bolt Throwers excluded)
* max 1 rare or 2 specials
* PoK and Crown banned
* 100pt discount on many monsters (manticore among them)
* Max 5 dice casting (incl DE) NO magic level added
* DE must choose 1 of BSB, CoB or Hydra
* Max 9 cavalry per unit, max 40 cheap models otherwise max 20 per unit.
This leads to a metagame where:
* Many low level caster with ruby ring. Few will choose high casting lores like shadow or metal. Many magic missiles expected.
MR on key units will be important. Due to many MM shades are much less interesting. Only Max 8 allowed anyway.
* Magic much less dominant as most spells will require 4+ dice to cast succesfully. This leads to fewer spells will be present and less will be cast.
Feedback scroll might be interesting, as might crystal of midnigt against the many lv1 fire mages expected.
* Many monster and other large targets present due to 100 pt discount and only 1 cannon per army.
Rending star assasin interesting, WEs (frenzy an issue though)?
* Due to low unit sizes allowed, it would not be unexpected to face deathstar comprimising of many characters (similar to ETC 2012)
Initial Testing:
I have done some testing where i experimented with a 20 ASF BG Deathstar with 2 rending star assasins, a MR3 Master, and a DL with Executioners Axe backed up by harpies and 2 large spearmen blocks.
It worked as intended, but all in all i feel that good players will simply stand off the relatively slow moving deathstar and I will either loose small or draw. This means that i will not get the big wins needed to finish in the top.
So im back to the drawing board.
Lessons Learned:
* Lack of BSB Ld rerolls is really tough.
* I was impressed with the rending star assasins. They really performed very well in a close combat list where you often operate inside their 12" range. They provided a really good solution to characters and for instance mournfangs. Their stand and shoot often intimidates the opponent to making bad decisions. Synergizes well with CoB for stubborn spearmen.
* I also found magic to be very underwhelming. You mistcast a lot due to casting with 3+ dice on practically every spell. And normally spellcaster only got off a couple of magic missiles that did not really do much. Therefore i decided to abanded magic alltogether!
After a lot of contemplating i have come up with the following lists a defensive and an offensive version:
The defensive list:
* Dreadlord, General, on Manticore, HA, Shield, Whip of agony, Ironcurse Icon, Talisman of Preservation, Cloak of Hag Graef - 349 Pts.
* Master, Lance, HA, SDC, Dark Pegasus, Black Dragon Egg, Pidgeon Plucker Pendant, Charmed Shield - 182 Pts.
* Master, Shield, SDC, Dark Pegasus, Biting Blade, Dragonbane Gem, Armour of Eternal Servitude - 181 Pts.
* Master, HA, Shield, SDC, Dark Pegasus, Sword of Might, Opal Amulet, Dragonhelm - 180 Pts.
* 20 Crossbowmen, Shields, M, C - 230 Pts.
* 14 Crossbowmen, M - 145 Pts.
* 38 Dark Elf Warriors, M, S, C, Gleaming Pennant - 248 Pts.
* 5 Harpies - 55 Pts.
* 5 Harpies - 55 Pts.
* Cold One Chariot - 100 Pts.
* Cold One Chariot - 100 Pts.
* War Hydra - 175 Pts.
* 2 Reaper Bolt Throwers - 200 Pts.
A shooting heavy list designed to sit back and grab points from the opponent at range and taunt to attempt a charge. The flying heroes and hydra will hide defensively and cover his lanes of approach, and when the time is right deliver an overwhelming charge with the chariots and or hydra to devastate one of his key units. Stupidity is an issue with no BSB, as is panic.
It is designed with the Russian Dragonlist from the ETC in mind (the Dragon is changed to a manticore in my list)
The offensive version:
* Dreadlord, General, Manticore, HA, Shield, Whip of agony, Ironcurse Icon, Talisman of Preservation, Cloak of Hag Graef - 349 Pts.
* Master, HA, SDC, Dark Pegasus, Sword of Might, Black Dragon Egg, Charmed Shield - 188 Pts.
* Master, Lance, Shield, SDC, Dark Pegasus, Dragonbane Gem, Armour of Eternal Servitude - 180 Pts.
* Assassin, Rending Stars, Manbane - 145 Pts.
* Assassin, Rending Stars, Manbane - 145 Pts.
* 5 Dark Riders, M - 92 Pts.
* 39 Dark Elf Warriors, M, S, C, Gleaming Pennant - 254 Pts.
* 38 Dark Elf Warriors, M, S, C, Std. of Eternal Flame - 253 Pts.
* 5 Harpies - 55 Pts.
* 5 Harpies - 55 Pts.
* 20 Black Guards, M, S, Std. of Murder - 306 Pts.
* War Hydra - 175 Pts.
Total: 2197
Well a list designed with a simple plan. Get charges by turn2. Move to combat asap. Simple but effective.
Im not totally satisfied with the offensive version.
Right now i like the defensive version as it imo is better designed.
But my gut feeling tells me an offensive version might be better suited for my vulnerable Manticore DL & Hydra.
My questions to you:
How do I improve the offensive list?
Which one is better in the meta?