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Dark Tigers - Dragonlist blog 
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Corsair

Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:54 pm
Posts: 86
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@Tyrannus: I agree that multiple single-model threats definitely make this list more difficult to deal with. Part of the advantage I also have is that very few people have dealt with a dragon or similar in 8th; friends in my club are starting to come up with tactics and strategies, but against anyone who is not expecting it, sometimes there's some hesitation that can be exploited.
Regarding your suggestions (thanks!), they're both interesting. Until I add in another sorceress though (maybe at 2400?) I have room for only one arcane item and I'm extremely dependent on the scroll - it's definitely a crutch, but not one I'm willing to give up just yet. The crossbow comment took me by surprise, but after reviewing some of the battles, I'd have to agree that they're not adding a lot to my battleline. Originally, they were partially there for the standard (which I've dropped) and as a bunker for the sorceress (and I've since mounted her so she's more of a mobile can't catch me character now - at least in theory). It's too close to the tournament, otherwise I think I'd drop them for another unit of dark riders (no time to model up another set). I can't switch them out for witches, since they're not core. RHB corsairs are intriguing idea, but after thinking about it, they're not too different from crossbows with shields. I think I'll keep the crossbows, at least for the upcoming tournament, but I should endeavor to be much more proactive with them; I usually try to protect them, but pointwise, they're just as expendable as the dark riders, which sometimes I'm damn near suicidal with. I really enjoyed the diversionary role they played in the latest empire battle, and if I'm more aggressive with them, I may force an opponent to divert resources to deal with them.

@Setomidor: You're welcome!
I suppose if I'm doing this the way the forum was designed, I'd post each batrep in the battle report section and then if I'm lucky, there'd be a sticky with links, which there already is in that forum, kind of, but only has two people currently.
When I initially posted, I was only asking about the list and then decided to just post reports to give people an idea of how I was using it. After the first report or two I decided to continue it similar to what they do at the high elf forums (yes, I've been spying like a good druchii should); they have half a dozen 'blogs' over there in the army section. I've been following one in particular Curu Olannon's Vindicators, a high elf list with a Star Dragon. It's 2500 and high elf, so not everything translates well into druchii dragon tactics, but I've picked up a few tricks and tips. He hasn't been that active lately, but the battlereports are a wonderfully great read - I'd highly recommend perusing it if you've enjoyed my reports.
As for comments, there hasn't been a lot of feedback on many of the individual battles (which is fine, I was a lurker for many, many years, so no judgements :) ), though I suppose I didn't give much time in between the last four or so. In any case, I'd be more than happy to discuss any aspect of any of the games (you might just need to reference which game), even if its from a while back.


Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:38 pm
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Trainee Warrior
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cycloptic squirrel wrote:
When I initially posted, I was only asking about the list and then decided to just post reports to give people an idea of how I was using it. After the first report or two I decided to continue it similar to what they do at the high elf forums (yes, I've been spying like a good druchii should); they have half a dozen 'blogs' over there in the army section. I've been following one in particular Curu Olannon's Vindicators, a high elf list with a Star Dragon. It's 2500 and high elf, so not everything translates well into druchii dragon tactics, but I've picked up a few tricks and tips. He hasn't been that active lately, but the battlereports are a wonderfully great read - I'd highly recommend perusing it if you've enjoyed my reports.

I've read that one too - it's awesome, and I was disappointed that no-one did anything similar here, so I'm really pleased you're keeping this thread going. I'm intending to do the same once I've got enough experience that my games aren't just a constant re-checking of the rules.

For occasional readers, it might be harder to comment on older battle reports having them all in one thread, but I like this format as it's easier to see how your list/approach evolves from battle to battle.


Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:04 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Regarding your battle with the Ogre player (your October 2d post): After the FAQ two important things that helped him from being crushed would not have happened. No ranged greedy fist attacks and his Mornfangs would not have overrun in the battle where they hit your knights in the flank. Last Man Standing rule is essentially like crumbling from unstable. It is determined after combat in the results phase. Well played game. Your opponent was quite skilled as well. I learned a lot from this report. :)


Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:29 pm
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Corsair

Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:54 pm
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Thanks Sedge! I agree that it could/would be harder to discuss past battles, but I do enjoy the flow and the fact that it's a one stop shop so you don't have to go digging through several pages to ensure that you've read them all.

@Gidean: I agree about the death fist, but at the same time, had the wizard's tower not been right there, my spell selection would have been a little more limited. I'm not sure I agree on the banner thing since the last stand section specifically states that 'the enemy can pursue or overrun as normal' and you normally wouldn't be able to overrun unless the enemy was destroyed. Another thing that the FAQ would have changed though, is that the BSB's toughness would have been 4, so Fate would have resulted in only two hits/wounds leaving the BSB alive and the harpies unpaniced. It's hard to say what I would have done with a 1 wound BSB - likely just dance around providing rerolls, maybe take on the ironblaster.


Anyway... the tournament was last weekend. I barely remembered to grab some decent pictures for showing, but here they are.

The first was taken before the tournament and I used it as a watermark on the armylist along with some fluff:
Serine inspected her forces. It had been two years since the disasterous astrologically inspired expedition; less than half who had embarked returned to restore thier strength. Still, it was a productive few years with many tigers born and blessed. The warhost, though smaller in number, compensated with more numerous and more powerful tigers; Sarine herself rode aloft one of the few specimens that had survived both the blessings of strength and flight. The venture this time was likely to be no more forgiving than the last but it was time once more to follow the North Star.
Image

Here are two quick pictures on the display base:
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And here's a decent ground view of a partial battleline.
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A quick overview of the tournament envirnment: there were about 80 people, no comp, closed 2200 lists, no special characters, random matchups for the first game, subsequent games would be based on total battlepoints, 20-0 system, and everyone who donated to charity has a one per game reroll, which can even be used to rereoll a reroll, two and a half hour time limit.

A little foreshadowing:
Sarine reflected on the information that the coven had given her: within an fallen hold, the dwarves had locked away items of significant power. The North Star had portended of a doomed soul still bound to this realm who knew how to locate and access this stash. Sarine's mission was to escort one of the coven to capture this soul, bind it to her will, and use it to capture the treasures.

Battle reports to follow.


Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:42 pm
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Corsair

Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:54 pm
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Sarine scanned inland, her keen eye searching for signs of either lizard creatures or zombified pirates. The makeshift harbor had served their purposes passably as only a few ships in the fleet had been beached from the storm. Dark elf ships had not been the only ones beached, however, and as their occupants emerged, it was clear that the natives were not the only forces to be concerned of.

Tigers
Dreadlord on Dragon w/ Ironcurse Icon, Blood Armor, Soulrender, Pendant of Khaeleth
Master BSB on Dark Pegasus w/ heavy armor, shield, sea dragon cloak, Crown of Command, Dragonhelm, Luckstone
Sorceress[SHADOW] on Dark Pegasus w/ level 2, Dispel Scroll, Whip of Agony

27 Spearmen w/ full command, Warbanner
10 Repeater crossbowmen w/ musician, shields
5 Dark Riders w/ repeater crossbows, musician
5 Dark Riders w/ repeater crossbows, musician

5 Harpies
5 Harpies
5 Cold One Knights w/ banner, Banner of Eternal Flame, champion, Ring of Hotek
Hydra
Hydra

Ogres
Tyrant, great weapon, Armor of Destiny, Crown of Command
Bruiser BSB, heavy armor, ironfist, Talisman of Preservation
Hunter, great throwing spear, harpoon launcher, ironfist, light armor, Talisman of Protection, longstrider

8 Ogres, light armor, ironfists, full command
8 Ogres, light armor, ironfists, full command
10 Gnoblars, standard
10 Gnoblars, standard
10 Gnoblars, standard
10 Gnoblars, standard
10 Gnoblars, standard
10 Gnoblars, standard
10 Gnoblars, standard
10 Gnoblars, standard

2 Sabretusks
3 Yhetees
Thundertusk
Stonehorn

Setup and Deployment:
The first game was on the vampire coast of Lustria and against an ogre player; I was concerned about facing my most feared army the first round, but was pleasantly surprised when I learned that there were no ironblasters in this list as well as no magic! The major and minor objectives, however, were to destroy the least and most valuable unit (all of them in case of a tie), which I knew I’d have to get all 8(!) gnoblar units and suspected both ogre units, though I was pulling the same shenanagins with two units of harpies as well as the spears and knights. Deployment was random (as in dawn attack) except units with fortitude could choose where to deploy. For spells I rolled Doom (and Darkness) and Fate and elected to keep both.
The cemetery (center) was a charnel pit which gave all units within 6” -1 ld and the forests were either normal or a venom thicket on 4+. I chose sides and elected to put my opponent on the side with the cemetery since I figured that would be where the action would be and thought that the ld penalty would be a net benefit for me. As I chose sides, I had to deploy first and I pretty much went centrally so that I could react to whatever his deployment was. He weighted the eastern flank with a stonehorn in the west to keep me from running amok. He did not steal the initiative on a 6+, but with no magic, no ironblasters, and nothing critical to react to, I elected to have him go first so that I may have last turn.
Image

Ogres turn 1:
The mass advanced, with the hunter advancing boldly enough that I was suspicious of his items. In shooting, a harpoon was thrown at the dragon, and it was determined that the Ironcurse Icon would not be of use, but I would get an armor save, which I made on a 6+. The thundertusk attempted to throw a snowball, but misfired (automatically just a shot missed).
Image

Tiger turn 1:
I was not mindful of my BSB placement and thus was a quarter inch out of range when the knights went stupid and stumbled forward 6”.
I didn’t see a great need for my fast cav in the main event, and mindful of the objectives decided to start clearing gnoblars. One unit made it in fine, but the western unit lost two from thrown sharp stuff. The hydra decided that the only way to find out what the hunter was packing was to charge. I positioned the spears so that the sorceress would be just out of ring range from the champion on the western side of the knights.
Magic was 4v3 and all dice were thrown at Doom and Darkness and it went off on his Stonehorn.
The crossbowomen picked off 3-4 gnoblars causing them to flee.
In combat, the western riders killed three gnoblars and lost one of their own; the diminutive goblinoids were steadfast and held. The other riders killed a few, lost none, and ran their unit down. The hydra handlers killed a sabretusk, the hunter caused and received two wounds with the hydra. The hunter broke, running through four units, but the stonehorn was the only one who paniced, running away from the dark riders since they were the closest unit. The hydra pursued into the yhetees.
Image

Ogres turn 2:
The thundertusk considers charging the dragon, but decides against it. The BSB’s bulls charge the hydra’s flank. The stonehorn is still within range of the sailor’s cemetery, so combined with the Doom and Darkness tries to rally on a 4 and makes it! The hunter on the other hand, feels that it is time to leave and goes off the board.
The harpoons miss the dragon this time, but the snowball lands perfectly on the spearwomen, crushing 11 of them, but failing to wound the sorceress (she is ineligible for a ‘lookout sir’). The far eastern gnoblars target the harpies and thankfully kill only one. Magic is almost skipped, but I remind him to attempt to dispel Doom and Darkness, and it is.
The ogres cause only one wound to the hydra, the hydra breathes and kills one ogre, puts one wound on the champion and two on the BSB. Everyone holds. The other dark riders fail to remove steadfast, but the gnoblars flee anyway and are caught.
Image

Tiger turn 2:
The dragon and BSB decide to tackle the stonehorn, hoping for an overrun into the yhetees. The knights charge the thundertusk and the depleted dark riders charge the flank of the gnoblars. The full dark riders charge another unit, but a nice stand and shoot drops two and the riders panic. The crossbowomen are in range, but I remember that my resolution to advance them so that they may also serve as redirectors. I want my sorceress to try to get into the backfield and I decide to try the western (central) route.
Magic is 5v3 and I then realize that the route I’ve taken with the sorceress takes her within the range of the Ring. Knowing that a good Fate could end the general, I use four dice, there’s luckily no miscast, all the dispel dice cannot negate, and (I think) I put two wounds on the tyrant. I use the last power die to cast Power of Darkness which gains me only two, which I then use to try and cast Doom and Darkness and fail to cast, but also fail to cause a miscast.
The crossbowomen get a few hits, but no wounds on the ogres.
The knights strike last due to the thundertusks freeze aura, but the beast amazingly cannot hit a thing! I deal 3-4 wounds, win, and run him down with a large pursuit roll. The dragon and BSB kill the stonehorn, but not before two wounds are put on the dragon. The BSB overruns into the yhetees and will fight again, but the dragon rolled low and has her corner still visible by the tyrant. The hydra dies and the BSB takes a wound from the yhetees, but she holds on stubborn. The gnoblars lose a few, the dark riders lose one more, and the last dark rider disperses her opponents with a pursuit.
Image

Ogres turn 3:
The bulls charge the dragon and a unit of gnoblars charge the flank of the knights. The other gnoblars move for shooting positions and the gnoblars fleeing from crossbow wounds rally.
Sharp stuff is thrown and two harpies fall, but are within 18” of the general and hold their ground. Other shooting is ineffective.
In combat, the one gnoblar and one knight fall; the knights lose by two but hold and are able to reform to face. In combat, I know his tyrant has a great weapon and I remember there’s a particularly nasty magic great weapon in the 6th/7th edition ogre book, but I’m unsure if it’s made it into the new one. Still, he’ll hit me whether I challenge or not, so my dragonlord challenges and the tyrant accepts. I don’t get to find out what the weapon is though as the dragon decides this is the time to breathe and takes off enough wounds to kill the tyrant and barely win the combat. The bulls lose their nerve, break, and are run down (thanks graveyard!). The BSB gives and takes another wound.
Image

Tiger turn 3:
I reposition, trying to get the other bull unit surrounded. The dark riders rally and the sorceress joins them to protect her from the buckets of sharp stuff that are being thrown around the field.
Magic is 6v4 and since there are no eligible targets for Fate in her front arc, I throw all dice at Doom and Darkness on the Bulls, hoping for a lucky panic test if/when the yhetees break. The spell is cast with irresistible force and the resulting calamitous detonation sucks her into the void along with two dark riders.
In combat, the knights break and run down the gnoblars in the forest, losing none to dangerous terrain. The recently rallied gnoblars then panic and run off the board. The BSB puts another wound on the yhetees, but fail to break them.
Image

Ogres turn 4:
The bulls turn to face the dragon, and move the gnoblars to protect their rear.
Doom and Darkness is dispelled.
Sharp stuff takes out one of the dark riders remaining(?).
I don’t remember exactly the result of the BSB/yhetee fight, but as near as I can tell, the yhetee with S5 managed to kill the BSB and is left with one wound remaining.
Image

Tiger turn 4:
If the hydra destroys the gnoblars, there’s a decent chance of overrunning into the rear of the bulls, but it’s not a sure thing, so I elect not to charge with the dragon, instead repositioning. The spears charge the yhetee, who flees. The hydra charges the gnoblars, who hold. Both units of harpies and the last dark rider charge the northern gnoblars, but the large unit of harpies fail to make it. The knights are not stupid this turn, and since they are immune to psychology they march through the woods to get near the action. I figure I may lose one to dangerous terrain, but I am not expecting to lose three of them leaving only the champion!
The crossbowomen manage only one wound on the last unit of unengaged gnoblars.
The harpies and dark rider break the gnoblars without losing any of their own and pursue off the table. The hydra and handlers kill nine gnoblars, leaving one to flee; I fail the restrain test and pursue into the bulls!
Image

Ogres turn 5:
The yhetee rallies and a little time is spend considering position to block the dragon before I point out that I can just fly over any redirectors.
The hydra takes 2-3 wounds before using her breath weapon; I win due to wounds but the break test is passed and the ogres reform to face the spearwomen.

Tiger turn 5:
I really want that banner/warbanner/musician in this fight, so the spears and the dragon charge in.
There’s a unit champion challenge and each do one wound, but the spearwoman falls wheras the bull stands with one wound remaining. The spears cannot manage a single roll above four to wound. The bulls put one wound on the hydra and twelve on the spears! The hydra kills the BSB, the dragon and rider eat some more. It’s surprisingly close, but I win by 1-2. The bulls hold, but it’s pretty clear where the remainder of the game will go and my opponent concedes.

Postgame:
Had we played the last round I am sure I would have been able to get that last gnoblar unit as well as chase the straggler off the board. What I’m not sure of is the main fight. He had four bulls left: two at full strength, one trooper and the champion both with a single wound remaining. At the same time, the hydra only had one wound and I had only four spear women. That said, I’d rather not force a game continuation when my opponent clearly isn’t feeling it.
I’ve seen my the ogre player at previous events and he’s certainly a competent general, but the armies were clearly not at the same level. His list was featuring units that wouldn’t normally see the board but he wanted to bring them; I’m a fan of the list, I just wish I had the opportunity to play him with a similar style list.
So at the end of the first game, I’m up 20-0, but there are a lot of games that went that way due to the completely random first round. At the same time, I’m getting an inkling that I may not be at the top of my game. There were a lot of little mistakes I made and I felt I just wasn’t processing as I normally do; I chalked it up to first game jitters and was looking forward to an my next game against skaven.


Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:12 am
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Trainee Warrior
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I've never seen an Ogre army like that - it's far more interesting than the usual lists I've come across. I'd definitely agree that it's an army that would be fun to play against in other circumstances - but it didn't stand much of a chance against you this time around.


Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:24 pm
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Corsair

Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:54 pm
Posts: 86
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Part of it was the matchup; with two ironblasters it would have been a different game entirely. I didn't get a chance to talk to him later to see how the rest of his games went, but looking at the results, he went on to get 45/80 battlepoints in the rest of the tournament, so he won more than he lost (excluding the game against me).
A quick note about matchups though, part of the advantage of a dragonlist is that most players don't take efforts to include tools to deal with big monsters, especially highly mobile ones. Related to that is that most people don't have 8th ed experience against a dragon, so even if they have the tools, they may not always use them in the most efficient manner. Not that I blame anyone - I'd probably be a little at a loss at how to deal with an opposing dragon myself - I'm not sure if it'd be a very dancy game or a very straightforward one with the dragons colliding in turn one. Either way, it'd be a lot of fun!



On to game two!

These human lands were weak; if this was a normal slaving run, they'd already be on the returning with full holds. But, the expedition was traveling light and hordes of prisoners and 'loot' would just slow them down and make them vulnerable. Penetrating along the river Reik had been relatively easy, yet their passage was not unnoticed and Serine had noted that the farther inland they went, the more local militias and garrisons seemed to be on the lookout for hostile forces. No one had approached much less attacked, but it was only a matter of time; when that time came there would be no question as to who would be the victor, yet the tiger warhost needed to conserve their strength.
Serine smiled at her cleverness; the dark riders had detected a mass of ratmen hastily making their way toward a relatively undefended settlement. If the elves saved the human's village, the human watchers that were tracking the ratmen would likely mistake the tiger force for a battalion of their Ulthuan kin. At that point the ‘friendly’ tiger army's trek across these lands should be at least tolerated, if not understood. Serine had no particular desire to go up against any of the contraptions that a chittering horde of that size usually dragged with them, but the option was a lot better than facing potential hostility across an entire nation.


Tigers
Dreadlord on Dragon w/ Ironcurse Icon, Blood Armor, Soulrender, Pendant of Khaeleth
Master BSB on Dark Pegasus w/ heavy armor, shield, sea dragon cloak, Crown of Command, Dragonhelm, Luckstone
Sorceress[SHADOW] on Dark Pegasus w/ level 2, Dispel Scroll, Whip of Agony

27 Spearmen w/ full command, Warbanner
10 Repeater crossbowmen w/ musician, shields
5 Dark Riders w/ repeater crossbows, musician
5 Dark Riders w/ repeater crossbows, musician
5 Harpies
5 Harpies
5 Cold One Knights w/ banner, Banner of Eternal Flame, champion, Ring of Hotek
Hydra
Hydra

Skaven
Grey Seer, Screaming Bell, Power Scroll, Skalm
Chieftain BSB, halberd, heavy armor, Stormbanner
Plague Priest, flail, Dispel Scroll
Warplock Engineer, Doom Rocket

49 Clanrats, spears, shields, full command, Poison Wind Mortar
15 Stormvermin, musician, champion, Warpfire Thrower
38 Skavenslaves, musician
5 Giant Rats, Packmaster
5 Giant Rats, Packmaster

27 Plague Monks, Plague Banner, full command, additional hand weapons
Hell Pit Abomination
Doomwheel
Warp Lightning Cannon

Setup and Deployment:
This scenario had the 54x15 inch deployment with the major objective to get your opponent down to 3 fortitude and the minor was to kill any enemy wizard.
For spells I got Caress and something else (Purple Sun?) but traded it for Spirit Leech. He got Curse of the Horned Rat, Warp Lightning, Crack’s Call, Death Frenzy for the Seer and Withering and Cloud of Corruption for the Plague Priest.
I won the roll for sides and chose the side with the building to hide behind. After a mini chaff war, most of his forces went to the west of the building and I moved to counter. I barely finished deploying first and won the roll off for first turn.
Image

Tiger turn 1:
The storm banner calls down a fury preventing flight, but thankfully, all my fliers have pretty decent ground movement. The eastern riders circle around, while the western stay in place for a steadier shot. The crossbowomen occupy the building while the dragon continues to use it as cover from the cannon. The hydras advance, the eastern ensuring that she is farther from their lines (and the wheel) than the building is. The sorceress move up the west flank, staying as far from the Abomination as possible while keeping the Seer within spell range.
Magic is 8v5 and we each throw two dice at Power of Darkness, but it’s dispelled irresistibly. All remaining dice go into a long range Caress which is cast on the seer, but I only roll a 4, resulting in one hit which fails to wound.
With the storm banner active, I assume that I will get few hits, so I target the weapon teams and manage to get a wound onto the warpfire thrower and kill it.
Image

Skaven turn 1:
The Storm Banner sputters out. The doomwheel moves 10 inches toward the hydra. The abomination considers moving toward the sorceress, but she’s 17 inches away and can now fly again, so the monstrosity lumbers 8 inches toward the dark riders. The storm vermin about face to pressure the dark riders, the engineer leaves the slaves to get a good shot, and everything else moves up.
Magic is 12v6 after two channels and I settle in for a long phase. The first two dice are used for Warp Lightning on the dark riders which I let go; only one hit is rolled and one rider falls. The next four dice are used to try and Wither the knights; I really don’t enjoy the thought of T2 knights, but I’m mostly relying on armor anyway and if the BSB leaves the unit, the effect stays with them (or so I assume and my opponent agreed with my reasoning), so I let that go as well. The next three dice are used to irresistibly cast Crack’s Call on the hydra, but the range falls short. The miscast causes the seer to lose two levels and warp lightning along with it. The last three dice are used for Cloud of Corruption, but my six dispel dice easily negate it.
The warp lightning cannon guesses 8 short of the sorceress but rolls a 10 so the shot goes long. The engineer fires the doom rocket which lands a little short, but still blasts apart 11 spearwomen.
Image

Tiger turn 2:
I know the doomwheel is bad news for the hydra, but I figure that trying to get some wounds will be better than just having it chase me around, so I charge it. The northeastern riders charge a unit of giant rats to get out of the stormvermin’s arc, but the rats flee. I redirect into the cannon which is 19” away and they fail, stopping just in front of the stormvermin. The knights and BSB charge the abomination (as they were designed for) but to open a charge lane, the central dark riders needed to charge the clanrats and bell. The harpies, since they are three wide, are barely able to fit in against the last weapons team; the stand and shoot does nothing except roast a slave. The hydra moves to the flank, the spears shift over again and the dragon lands beside them, keeping all three opposing infantry units in view.
Magic is 6v5 and I start with a two die Power of Darkness; it’s unopposed and I gain 4 power dice. I use 5 power dice on a Caress against the cannon; it’s again unopposed, but I roll a 5 for two hits and again no wounds. The last three dice I use to try and Leech the Spirit of the Plague Priest, but his five dice easily dispel.
The crossbowomen target the stormvermin and drop three of them, but it’s one short of a panic check.
In combat, the knights and BSB’s flaming attacks only inflict 5 wounds, leaving the abomination alive to feed, causing a no armor save D3 wound hit on every model in base contact; three knights, including the champion (goodbye Ring!) die, but luckily my BSB was not even wounded. The abomination breaks, is not caught, but the pursuit takes the knights and BSB into the bell and clanrats. I know that I have to take the bell out if I am ever going to break the unit, but the BSB cannot wound it. The dark riders cause some wounds but are cut down pretty quickly. I lose by a lot, but the BSB is stubborn and I hold. The hydra uses it’s breath against the wheel, but only gets three hits; after attacks, I only cause 2-3 wounds on the wheel, with none in return; the wheel either holds or it’s unbreakable (I don’t remember which). The harpies make short work of the weapon team and decline to overrun as they’re in a pretty good position for charging the cannon as well as just being in the way.
Image

Skaven turn 2:
The giant rats rally, but the abomination does not and it clears the board. The storm vermin charge the fast cav and I see no reason to stay as I may roll low enough to stay on the board. The flee roll is very low so I do not go off the board, but I am caught and destroyed. The slaves line up for a charge on the building while the monks try to dissuade the dragon from chaging the bell.
Magic is 7v4 and a two die Death Frenzy is failed. The next four dice are used for a cloud of Corruption and as much as I want to see the insanity that this spell can cause, I really need those harpies alive to take out the cannon, so I use my scroll. The last two dice are used to Wither the knights again; I use all four dispel dice and all come up sixes! (I guess the sorceress really wanted those knights to stick around.)
In the shooting phase, the cannon targeted the sorceress again, misfired, but is able to shoot next turn. The doomwheel rolls 10 for the strength of the three (d6 wound) hits on the hydra, but I regenerate them all!
In combat, the wheel puts a few wounds on the hydra before she gives one wound in return. The BSB targets the grey seer and puts a wound through and holds.
Image

Tiger turn 3:
The seer drinks the Skalm, healing his wound.
The hydra charges the flank of the clanrats and the harpies charge the cannon. The dragon briefly considers going after the bell, but I really don’t want to deal with a flank charge, so I charge the monks instead. The spearwomen charge the giant rats, who flee, and so I redirect into the flank of the slaves. The sorceress is marchblocked but advances as much as she can. The other unit of harpies reposition for a flank on the clanrats or a rear on the monks or slaves.
Magic is 6v4 but I’m out of range from the engineer and everything else is in combat except for the fleeing giant rats. I consider targeting the packmaster, but decide it's really not worth even a low risk of miscasting so instead she just skips the phase.
The crossbowomen kill another three stormvermin, this time causing a panic check, which is failed, and the vermin flee off the table.
In combat, the dragon breathes, attacks, and stomps, and a mess of monks fall as well as the priest. The monks all target the dragonlord; I’m a little worried as they reroll failed hits and wounds this turn, the Blood Armor hasn’t ramped up, so I’m sitting on essentially a 4+ armor and 4+ ward. Somehow only one wound gets through and the monks hold. The hydra kills his BSB, but not before the chieftain kills both remaining knights. My BSB cannot get past the seer’s ward save. The spearwomen kill some slaves, lose none in return, win by a bunch and are disrupting ranks which negates the 'strength in numbers'. The slaves break and the explosion kills two spearwomen and three giant rats. The spears reform to face the monks.
Image

Skaven turn 3:
The few remaining unengaged rats scatter to conserve what few points they are worth.
Magic is 12v6 and he has two spells. Three dice are used on Death Frenzy; at this point I figure he’ll use six dice on Curse of the Horned Rat and I’ll be unlikely to catch it, but I still have my scroll, so I dispel Frenzy with all six of my dice. He uses only five dice to cast Curse, I say scroll and at that point I am kindly reminded that I had already used it. I was pretty sure I hadn’t, but after a quick check of my notes it was very clear I had. With that cleared up, I had nothing I could do; he rolled 14 models, which is exactly the number of spearwomen I had left! He now had a nice new unit of clanrats!
The dragon grinds and the remaining monks break; I decline to pursue and instead reform to face the clanrats. Meanwhile, the hydra grinds, the BSB cannot get past the seer’s ward, and the rats cannot pierce my armor.
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Tiger turn 4:
I use harpies to run down the remining monks. The western hydra charges the new clanrats (mostly for honor’s sake) while the sorceress moves to snipe the engineer.
Magic is 3v2 and I spend two dice on Power of Darkness which is cast irresistibly. Luckily, the result is that everyone in base contact (no one!) takes damage and 5 power die are sucked away.
The crossbowomen take out the engineer.
In combat, the hydra grinds, the dragon and rider target the bell, and the BSB targets the seer. The bell sustains two wounds and the seer one.
Image

Skaven turn 4:
Magic is 8v6 and the bell is finally rung with Scorch cast on one unit of harpies destroying them. He uses 3 dice to cast Death Frenzy on the clanrats and I dispel it with six dice, still feeling I cannot stop a Curse. The last 4-5 dice are used to cast Curse on the other unit of harpies, turning them into clanrats as well.
Time is short and I know I will not get another turn. The seer is sitting on one wound left and the bell has 2 or 3. The hydra grinds enough to actually win the combat, but the BSB still cannot wound the seer. With the dragon and lord I think I have enough attacks to kill either the seer or the bell, but not both. I target the bell with the assumption that if I destroy it, the unit is no longer unbreakable and they have a chance of breaking. I do not kill the bell, though and the game ends.
Image

Postgame:
We had both achieved the major objective of getting the other down to 3 fortitude, but only I had killed an enemy wizard, fulfilling the minor objective. After adding the points up it was a 14-6 victory to me. I was slightly disappointed with the early ending as I was pretty sure I’d have the bell and seer killed with one more round, but we were having a good time and probably chatting more than we should have been. I was concerned about my performance as I still felt I was having an off day: forgetting I had used the scroll only a round earlier, forgetting that the seer was only a level two and thus I had a pretty decent chance of catching whatever he tried to cast with equal dice, not targeting the seer from the start with the BSB. Also, I realize in retrospect, had I targeted the seer with the dragon, I may not have gotten points for him, but I would have gotten the 100 VPs for killing the general, which in this case would have been worth an extra battle point. Still, I had a wonderful time, I'm feeling pretty good about the win, and I was curious to face a beastmen list in the next round.

As an amusing note: before I submitted my army list, I made one last switch to equip shields on the crossbowomen instead of a banner (mostly because they were already modeled with shields and I hadn't yet modeled a banner). Had they had the standard, I would have been at 4 fortitude instead of 3, which would have been another 300 point (2 BP) swing. I was aware of the potential for this to happen, but I figured, what are the odds of that happening? :D
C&C always appreciated!


Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:04 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:47 am
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Nicely fought. I really enjoy your batreps! :D I like this one in particular as I have both Dark Elves and Skaven. I was not all that impressed with his list. Think I would have gone more Stormvermin and less Clanrats and maned the bell with the Stormvermin. Used the clanrats as another offensive unit. :?


Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:30 pm
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@Gidean: Thanks! I've only played one other skaven player before, so I'm still not quite sure what I think of the list, but I do know the doomwheel is gold against an army like mine,
I'm thankful they're not more popular.


In the twisted lands of Sylvania, they finally found the mansion that was trapping the dwarf’s soul. In this land of the vampires, though, the tiger force was not the only party interested in capturing the powerful spirit.

Tigers
Dreadlord on Dragon w/ Ironcurse Icon, Blood Armor, Soulrender, Pendant of Khaeleth
Master BSB on Dark Pegasus w/ heavy armor, shield, sea dragon cloak, Crown of Command, Dragonhelm, Luckstone
Sorceress[SHADOW] on Dark Pegasus w/ level 2, Dispel Scroll, Whip of Agony

27 Spearmen w/ full command, Warbanner
10 Repeater crossbowmen w/ musician, shields
5 Dark Riders w/ repeater crossbows, musician
5 Dark Riders w/ repeater crossbows, musician
5 Harpies
5 Harpies
5 Cold One Knights w/ banner, Banner of Eternal Flame, champion, Ring of Hotek
Hydra
Hydra

Beastmen
Doombull, Sword of Swift Slaying, Talisman of Preservation, Charmed Shield, Ironcurse Icon
Shaman [SHADOW] lv4
Gorebull, Brass Cleaver, Ramhorn Helm, Luckstone, heavy armor, shield
Gorebull BSB, Banner of Swiftness, heavy armor, shield

35 gor, extra hand weapons, banner, musician
37 Ungor, shield, full command
5 Ungor Raiders, shortbow
5 Ungor Raiders, shortbow
5 Warhounds
5 Warhounds

6 Minotaurs with banner
5 Harpies with scout
Razorgor
Razorgor
Razorgor

Setup and Deployment:
The scenario had diagonal deployment with the major objective to have the unit with the most models within 3” of the objective (center) at the end of the game – monstorous infantry and cavalry were worth three models. We decided that the building was just out of 3" so you couldn't just hole up in the building all game. The minor objective was to kill all enemy heroes.
For spells I rolled Doom and Darkness and Purple Sun and exchanged the later for Spirit Leech. He rolled up Miasma, Withering, Pit of Shades, and Mindrazor.
The board was set in Sylvania and the terrain was pretty standard with the building as a haunted mansion (every unit within 6” takes 1d6 S1 hits with no armor save) and a graveyard which gave -1 ld to any unit within 6”. I took a look at the board and decided that if I had my choice, I’d divide the board and put the building in my opponent’s deployment zone forcing an army split. After reviewing our units, I won the roll and picked the side of the board with the building! About three drops in I realized my blunder and resolved to be more careful.
Both hydras deployed to the right of the mansion and his minotaurs deployed to oppose them. His infantry went center and the majority of my army went to the left and deployment ended as a semi-refused flank. He finished deploying first for the +1 and got first turn.
Image

Beastmen turn 1:
In the west, his razorgor charged the harpies; after confirming with my opponent that an overrun would not contact my sorceress I held instead of fleeing off the table. In the east, my dark riders fled rather than risking the razorgor making the long charge. Because I had angled the hydras slightly facing each other, his minotaurs had to charge both with the razorgor supporting. The minotaurs needed a 7 or something and failed; the razorgor made it into one. Otherwise, his infantry wheeled to come around the building at the bulk of my army, the dogs stayed put, and the harpies repositioned for flanking/rear opportunities.
Magic was 10v6 and I let a two die Miasma go through on the unengaged hydra for -2 initiative. I then used all my dispel dice to deny a 5 dice Pit on the same hydra. His last three dice were used to Wither the engaged hydra for -1 toughness.
The razorgor easily killed four harpies and chased the last off the board; I was hoping that the harpies could get a wound or two before dying, but no such luck. The other razorgor managed to get two wounds on the hydra before getting killed.
Image

Tiger turn 1:
With three characters, I knew the majority of points would be in the minotaur unit; I briefly considered double charging the hydras in, accepting that they would likely die, but hopefully doing some damage beforehand. I would have liked to simply retreat with them, but since I had positioned them close together I could barely pivot them and the 3 inches I could move backward would not be enough. Instead, the undamaged hydra charged the flank of the gors along with the dragon. At this point, I really wanted my BSB in there to accept challenges, but strongly suspected that with the third charge the gors would flee and the hydra would be left right in front of the minotaurs and I didn’t have any chaff in the back field to push the gors off the board. So instead the knights simply advanced along with the spears and crossbows. The eastern dark riders rallied and stayed near the harpies while the western riders failed a charge against the warhounds. The sorceress went along the back, partially to circle around and get near the minotaurs and partially to temp the harpies into a charge. The last unit of harpies went to screen the hydra from the minotaurs.
Magic was 9v4 (after a channel) and I started with 7 dice on Doom and Darkness on the gors; it was not irresistibility cast but neither was the dispel attempt. I had two dice left and decided that it would be worth the small risk of miscasting to throw the last two dice at Spirit Leeching a harpy; it worked.
The crossbows may have picked off an ungor or two, the dark riders failed to hit any harpies. In the gor fight, he did not have a champion and I elected to save the hydra’s breath weapon for when the ungor flanked the dragon and the dragon’s breath for the eventual minotaur fight. After I could not seem to miss and two very large thunderstomps, I killed something like two dozen (leaving twelve of them) with no wounds in return. They were steadfast, but -3 ld from D&D and -1 ld from the graveyard they needed a four to stick and rolled a three!
Image

Beastmen turn 2:
The minotaurs wanted to charge the hydra and I realized that in redirecting with the harpies I failed to take into account that as the back ranks of gor were killed, this would open a charge lane to the hydra! The harpies were close enough that it was too close to call whether the minotaurs could wheel past them and after a roll of a 4+ they could. (This is not the first time that I’ve been sloppy with my redirectors and need to learn to just put them closer). His ungor predictably flanked the dragon while his harpies charged my sorcerers. The raiders with his mage ensured that they were out of my harpies’ arc and the other raiders moved up for a few shots.
Magic was 9v6 and his first three dice were used on a big Miasma on the sorceress; I decided that she could still handle four harpies even hexed, so let Miasma through and she was down two initiative, movement, weapon skill, and ballistic skill. We each threw six dice at Pit on the unengaged hydra and I rolled higher to dispel.
In combat, the harpies went first and despite now hitting on threes only managed to wound once (yay new and improved T4!). In return, the sorceress and mount killed three and declined to pursue the last one. Between impact hits and his ASF S6 general, the hydra died before the handlers even went. The ungor champion challenged the dragon and the dragon ate him with three overkill. With the minotaurs now out of combat, I was still down by 7 (+1 wound, +3 overkill, -1 charge, -3 ranks, -1 banner, -5 hydra wounds, -1 flank) and because of the graveyard I needed to roll a two. On the BSB reroll I got a three; we recounted combat res, but three was not enough! I ran only eight (a pair of fours and a two) and I briefly considered using the reroll to try and get more, but decided that it was unlikely to get higher. Both the gor and ungor followed, both rolled seven but after using his game reroll the ungor caught the dragon! (The moment had passed, but had I decided earlier to avail myself I would have needed to roll a six on my reroll to escape)
Image

Tiger turn 2:
I’m pretty demoralized at this point since I had the foresight to redirect the minos but my sloppy placement let them pass, my dragon had almost stuck around and then was barely run down. I didn’t think I had enough punch left to take on the minotaurs, so at this point my plan was to continue to avoid them all game, perhaps flank them with the spears, knights, and BSB should the opportunity present itself, maybe a lucky Spirit Leech would take out a character. With that in mind, I felt I could clean up on everything else, so the knights and crossbowomen charged the ungors. The dark riders charged the hounds and made it this time. The harpies charged the ungor raiders. The sorceress circled back as the razorgors were starting to limit which areas were safe.
Magic was 9v5 and I used two dice on an unopposed Power of Darkness which yielded three dice. I cast a Spirit Leech on his doombull with four dice but his five dispel dice stopped it. I used my last four dice irresistibly casting Doom and Darkness on his shaman’s unit; I had hoped my harpies would break the raiders and the shaman’s raiders would panic (I completely forgot about the general and BSB well within range of both). The miscast I rolled an 8 but the S6 hit failed to wound!
The dark riders managed to get one wound on the razorgor. The other dark riders killed 4 hounds and reformed rather than chasing the last one off the board. The harpies and raiders traded a single wound and the raiders easily passed their rerollable ld7 break check. The ungor herd took some wounds, failed to do any in return, steadfastly held, but couldn’t make the check to reform.
Image

Beastmen turn 3:
The southern razorgor made a long charge into the rear of the knights. The northern razorgor charged the hydra hoping to hold it up for a turn. The shaman’s raiders moved up near the action, staying out of the hydra’s arc. The gor reformed two wide and moved to the north, giving the minotaurs a little room to maneuver.
Magic was 8v4 and the first three dice produced a miscast reducing the hydra’s initiative, weaponskill, etc by 3. The miscast was the S10 small template, killed two raiders (panic passed) and lost two power dice. With fewer power die than dispel die he threw the last three at successfully dispelling Doom and Darkness. I used the opportunity to dispel Withering which was still active on the hydra.
The harpies killed their raiders without damage and reformed. The razorgor may have done a wound to the hydra, but the hydra killed it and reformed looking at the shaman. The other razorgor killed two knights, the elves killed some ungor, and the ungor killed only one crossbowoman, but that was enough to bring them below two ranks which meant that the ungor were no longer disrupted. With the rear charge and now counting the three ranks, I lost. The knights/BSB held stubbornly, but the crossbows fled.
Image

Tiger turn 3:
Time was already short but it was clear that this would be the last turn. After a quick analysis, I knew that my 27 spearwomen could contest the objective if I could get them close enough, the problem was the ungor were right in the middle of it all; if they weren’t I could have reformed the spears and even had the sorceress join to tip the balance. But with the unit in the way, I charged the spears in along with the sorceress and harpies. The hydra charged the now visible shaman and the dark riders charged the two wide gors. The crossbows rallied and the other dark riders went to shoot the last harpy to get the points.
Magic was 5v4 and the sorceress was in range of the ring. Since she had already taken one wound, was going into combat, and I was only up one die, I decided the increased risk of miscast was not worth it, so I just discarded all the dice.
In combat, the hydra killed pretty much everything and ran down what was left. In the south, the razorgor took another knight, the elves and harpies killed many ungor and the ungor took a harpy. Critically, because of the knights, only one ungor was in contact with the spearwomen and the second rank was in contact with the sorceress so had to attack her. That mean there was only one attack that could (and did) go toward the spears. Knowing the significance, I held my breath as the attack hit (though it was a good bet with hatred) and wounded! The ungor broke, the sorceress chased them into the gor, the harpies also pursued but missed the gor, and the knights ran down the razorgor. The spears could have then reformed very wide getting near the objective, but with only 26 models there wasn’t a point. Against the gor, the sorceress and riders killed six enemies which was enough to get the sorceress out of combat. In return the gor brought down only one rider. Without the flank bonus, I was only up by 4 and he rolled a three! I recounted the situation and realized we were near the graveyard for -1 ld, but the three was still good and the gor held keeping their ~300 points!
Image

Final positions:
Image

Postgame:
After counting everything up, I was down only 220 in army points, but he obtained the major objective for anther 300, so the game ended in a 7-13 loss for me.
We both had a really good time, though it was a pretty short game. We started so close together there were a lot of tough movement decisions from the start, he had rarely faced a dragon/mobile list like mine, and I was just slow. After the game I thought that the early end benefited me, but in retrospect, I think I could have utilized 1-2 more turns pretty well with unopposed death magic and double flees.
I left the game pretty disappointed in myself, mostly for the botched redirect which ultimately led to the dragon’s demise, but there was also picking the opposite side of the table I had intended, allowing the western riders to be distracted by hounds that weren’t really a threat, and the mess concerning the major objective. Had I had my head on straight, I would have done everything to remove even one minotaur thus needing only 25 spearwomen to claim the objective. The dark riders could have shot them instead of the harpies, we both forgot about the mansion’s 1d6 S1 hits every turn during the last 1-2 turns, and I could have used the last magic phase a lot better. Had I thrown two die at Power of Darkness, I likely would have gotten it without miscast, then throw 2-3 dice at Spirit Leech at a unit minotaur, saving 3-4 for Doom and Darkness. Since I think my opponent feared D&D more than losing a single minotaur, I think he would have let Leech through. At that point, I just don’t even try for D&D. Had I been able to claim the objective, it would have been an 11-9 victory instead, or 9-11 loss if I had simply not lost that spearwoman at the end.
I was pretty demoralized making several mistakes over the course of the day and decided to skip evening festivities, hit the sack early, and hope I’d be more lucid the next day. I was excited to pull another beastmen player for day two, because even though I have little experience with the beasts, it’s always fun to see how another army operates (even if you just lost to the same army!).
C&C always welcome!


Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:11 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:47 am
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Question. I know that lone models like monsters can pivot on the spot to move per the rules on p.27 of the BRB. Do our Hydra's get that benefit since technically they are not a single model when you consider the handlers?

And when your sorceress fought the Gors in Turn 3, you said she ended up out of combat after 6 were killed. I think you are doing that incorrectly. Read "Shrinking Units" and "No More Foes" on p. 61 . She would have moved over. She would have only been out of combat if the unit she was touching was completely wiped out. Unless I am missing something here..?


Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:07 pm
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Corsair

Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:54 pm
Posts: 86
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Yes, like all monster and handlers, we ignore the handlers for movement, so hydras pivot when not charging, however, the pivot still cannot take them within an inch of another unit, so their movement can be restricted by clever opponents getting mobile units too close or placing our own units too close.

After reviewing the section, I absolutely agree with you. For some reason, I had thought the movement due to shrinking units was only for units attacking an enemy from the rear. I suppose this is one of those situations where knowing the rules makes all the difference :)


Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:08 pm
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Serine sighed, the tiger forces had been demoralized after Sasha had carried her from the field; they were unable to prevent the minotaurs from performing some fell ritual capturing the very soul the elves had journeyed far to acquire. After a short recuperation, the expedition tracked the herd as it joined with several other groups of man-beasts. It was in the hilly regions of half-men that opportunity presented itself as the herd split into several groupings to raid, gorge, and pillage. Serine glared in anticipation as she spotted the totem that the beasts had imprisoned the dwarven spirit – this time she would be more careful to ensure that Sasha would not become surrounded – the battle would be theirs.

Tigers
Dreadlord on Dragon w/ Ironcurse Icon, Blood Armor, Soulrender, Pendant of Khaeleth
Master BSB on Dark Pegasus w/ heavy armor, shield, sea dragon cloak, Crown of Command, Dragonhelm, Luckstone
Sorceress[SHADOW] on Dark Pegasus w/ level 2, Dispel Scroll, Whip of Agony

27 Spearmen w/ full command, Warbanner
10 Repeater crossbowmen w/ musician, shields
5 Dark Riders w/ repeater crossbows, musician
5 Dark Riders w/ repeater crossbows, musician
5 Harpies
5 Harpies
5 Cold One Knights w/ banner, Banner of Eternal Flame, champion, Ring of Hotek
Hydra
Hydra

The Wild Herd
Beastlord, Crown of Command, Enchanted Shield, Sword of Might, heavy armor
Shaman [DEATH] lv4, Talisman of Preservation, additional hand weapon
Wargor BSB, heavy armor, shield, Beast Banner, gnarled hide
Bray Shaman [SHADOW], Dispel Scroll
Bray Shaman [BEASTS], Shard of the Herdstone

39 Gor, extra hand weapons, full command
25 Ungor, shield, full command
Tuskgor Chariot

10 Centigors, spear, light armor, shield, full command
23 Bestigors, full command, Standard of Discipline
5 Harpies
5 Harpies

Setup and Deployment:
After a good night’s sleep I was feeling much more confident than yesterday, though I knew I’d have my work cut out for me since the next game was against one of the Point Hammered boys and I knew he was no slouch as a general. We were battling the long way on the Moot table (Halfling hills) with no real special terrain rules. The major objective was to control more of the two objectives than your opponent and the minor was to control more table quarters than your opponent.
For spells I got Caress and Spirit Leech, he also got Caress and Spirit Leech as well as Purple Sun and Doom and Darkness for his Great Shaman and I forget what his level 1s had, but I think it was just the signatures.
I had more a little more chaff than he did, but with the shortened deployment zones, there wasn’t a whole lot of choice for him. My characters were the last units placed and I figured the dragon could go into any unit without too much worry (as long as a hydra was supporting against the bestigors) while I delay and redirect everything else. I decided that I didn’t want to risk the dragon against the S6 bestigors (and whatever the lord was sporting) before the end of the game, so I decided to deploy and advance down the southern flank. (In retrospect, I think prioritizing the bestigors would have been the better choice as that’s where the dangerous magic was as well as a huge chunk of points and I could have supported the dragon better as well.)
After I vanguarded, he won the roll off and decided to go first.
Image

Beastmen turn 1:
The battleline advanced pretty steadily with the harpies in reserve and the chariot keeping my dark riders honest.
Magic was 12v6 and the first four dice cast a Caress on my BSB which I irresistibly dispelled with all my dice. The next four were used on a Spirit Leech on my hydra which I let go. I was (and still am) a little unsure of how unmodified ‘unmodified leadership’ is because he used his general’s leadership (since it was in the same unit) while I used the hydra’s base ld, even though by the same logic, I should have used the handler’s ld. Either way, I didn’t catch it, took 6 wounds but regenerated half of them. The last four dice failed to cast a Purple Sun toward the hydras.
Image

Tiger turn 1:
The southern riders were able to sneak into the backfield while their northern counterparts advanced cautiously, staying close enough to tempt the chariot, but far enough that it’d be unlikely to complete a charge. The dragon flew right up to the line, presenting her flank to the centigors; the sorceress used the dragon as cover, but I ‘mistakenly’ left her exposed to the harpies in the back field. The BSB flew right up to the gor herd daring them to charge. The unwounded hydra advanced pretty aggressively, making sure to stay out of the bestigor arc. I wanted the knights to advance, but they couldn’t get out of the same arc, so I settled for the bestigor needing a 9 on their charge range. The spears and wounded hydra simply shifted south, ready to harass the northern lines.
Magic was 8v6 and a successful two die Power of Darkness yielded two dice. I then irresistibly cast Caress on the general, but rolled a five yielding no hits. The miscast was an explosion for everyone around her and I lost two dice. I used the last on a single die Spirit Leech for fun, but failed to cast.
The crossbowomen got very lucky and felled five bestigors, the northern riders failed to wound the chariot, and the southern riders dropped one harpy.
Image

Beastmen turn 2:
I had apparently not learned my lesson from last game as the centigors were able to barely squeeze by the dragon and charge the hydra; I did not like those odds, so the hydra fled and the centigors redirected into the knights with a long range charge and the bestigors joined them with a long charge of their own. The chariot did not make it’s long range charge, but the free stand and shoot again failed to wound. The gors charged my BSB. The harpies either did not see the opportunity to charge the sorceress or inferred the hidden danger, so simply repositioned (still saving them for later I think). The ungors advanced slightly, keeping both mages within range of the herdstone.
Magic was 5v2 and the first two dice were used on an unopposed Miasma which reduced my BSB’s weapon skill by 1. The last three dice were used to cast Doom and Darkness on the fleeing hydra and my two dispel dice could not stop it. The wizard was in range of the Ring, but three-dice spell did not produce a miscast.
In combat, he refused a BSB throwdown; I killed a few gor and held. The knights were able to wound the beastlord once and kill two centigors before losing everyone but the bannerman who promply died when he couldn’t make the low ld break test. This caused the wounded hydra to flee. The centigor overran preventing the bestigor from doing the same so they simply reformed.
Image

Tiger turn 2:
The dragon could see the ungor and have room to get into their flank, so declared a charge; the ungor fled northeast, the dragon redirected into the gor. The northern riders then charged the fleeing ungor, which caused them to flee southeast; the riders redirected into the chariot, which fled east. The southern riders barely had sight to the ungors, so they were charged a third time, sending them northeast and bouncing through the chariot; I declined to redirect with the riders. At this point the ungor might rally, but they’re out of range of the general, BSB, and herstone (should they rally). The sorceress, angry that her trap did not work, charged the middle harpies, who fled north but were then charged by my northern harpies sending them south and easy range of the sorceress who caught and destroyed them. I surprisingly made the ld6 redirect test with the northern harpies to charge their counterparts – it’d be a long charge, but the enemy fliers decided this was a fight they wanted none of and fled south, bouncing through the gor. The spearwomen charged the rear of the bestigor – it would not end well, but they should hold up for a turn. The wounded hydra rallied, but the other did not, thanks to the hex upon it. The crossbows turned to face the centigors and the last unit of harpies flew up to screen the sorceress in case something weird happened with the spears.
Magic was 11v6 and there were very few targets available, so I started with a 5 dice Caress on the centigor unit champion; one irresistible force later, we have a very dead unit champion and a magical feedback that failed to wound the sorceress but drained two more power dice. I threw the last four dispelling D&D on the hydra.
The crossbowomen cannot seem to miss and three more centigor drop.
The gor cannot seem to scratch the dragon nor BSB; the dragon eats the opposing BSB and champion and starts grinding. The spearwomen surprisingly don’t do too badly, only lose three, and the bestigor hold on stubbornly, but fail to reform.
Image

Beastmen turn 3:
Only four strong, the centigors decide that they’d better see what they can do about the wounded hydra. Since the bestlord had made way last turn, he was barely out of range for the harpies, who failed to rally and ran off the board. The ungors and chariot also failed to rally, the former deciding now may be a good time to raid halfling burrows without the gors coming in to claim the best loot, food, and wine.
Magic was 8v6 and because of the failed reform his shaman was looking directly at my sorceress. I dispelled his two-die Spirit Leech with three dice of my own. A very nice roll on a two dice Caress left me thinking that my remaining three might not catch it; rather than risking losing the sorceress entirely, I used the scroll. Lastly, a Purple Sun was cast successfully in the direction of the dragon (5v3) but misfired. The scatter landed right in the small area between the harpies, BSB, and gor. He lost a few bestigor, I didn’t lose any harpies.
The centigor lost 1-2 to the handlers before inflicting a single wound on the hydra and dying to the counterattack. The spears again won barely, but this time the bestigors reformed as well as passing the break test. The dragon continues to grind.
Image

Tiger turn 3:
I really want to free up the dragon, so the southern riders charge the gor while their northern brethren reposition in case the chariot rallies. The fleeing hydra rallies, the other moves up a bit and the crossbows move back a little staying out of range of the bestigors. The sorceress flies to the east (though should have flown behind the gor to protect her from the bestigor which are likely to be freed up.) The southern harpies move to screen the flank of the dragon.
Magic is 10v something, but with not viable targets I just use all the dice to dispel Purple Sun. The dark riders again cannot wound the chariot.
The dragon grinds, I lose two dark riders but they add 2-3 kills themselves. Facing the full fury of the bestigors, the spearwomen all die horribly.
Image

Beastmen turn 4:
It’s pretty apparent that this is the last turn and looking at the objectives, the beastlord decides that instead of charging anything, the herd would stay put and claim one of the two objectives. The chariot again fails to rally and runs off the board.
Magic is 6v5 and a Purple Sun is cast and dispelled (4v5) and then I don’t have anything else recorded for the last two dice, but nothing of significance happened.
In combat, there’s about 16 gor left and I consider using the breath weapon to free everyone up, but I know if I’m going to do anything significant against the bestigor in one round of combat, I need the breath weapon. So after an average round, there’s 7-8 gor left and thus still steadfast and they hold.
Image

Tiger turn 4:
The BSB is now free since the ranks he was against were killed (see previous posts about my mistaken take on this) and I briefly consider charging everything in against the bestigor even without the dragon. I then dismiss it as the unwounded hydra would need 11-12 to even complete a charge and even if she made it, I’m probably just throwing away the wounded hydra and sorceress and possibly the BSB. Instead, I move the hydras up as far as possible. I advance the northern riders within 3” of the other objective claiming it (since they barely have a rank and musician).
Magic is 3v2 and we both throw two dice at Caress, but my roll is better. I roll 7 so end up with 2 hits against the beastlord, but neither wound. I then use the last die on Power of Darkness but fail to cast.
Both hydras use their breath weapons, the wounded one catching almost all of them but is only S1 while the unwounded one only catches 6-7 but is S5. The dark riders and crossbowomen pour fire into unit as well and drop many. Of the seventeen that started the round, only 7 remain, but that I enough to still claim the objective.
In combat the dragon and dark riders finish off the gor.
Image

Postgame:
We both have control of one objective, but I control two table quarters to his one, so minor objective to me. I had only lost my knights and spearwomen while he had only the bestigors and lords left. The final difference is 1220, which translates to a 18-2 victory to the tigers!
I felt pretty good since I was pretty sure if we had more time that I’d be able to clear the table of the last unit (though maybe not!) and at the time I felt I hadn’t really made any mistakes (though now I feel the misprioritization, failed dragon screen, and knight aggression are worth noting).
This was an absolutely beautiful game as my opponent took home best painted army (check out his website The Wild Herd website for pictures, background, and tactics) as well as the Moot board being one of the more impressive of the tournament (though they are all excellent). Since this was one of the Point Hammered boys the whole tournament as well as this battle was given an overview on their podcast Point Hammered and the ‘casts are pretty enjoyable in general (though be warned, it’s intended for mature* audiences).
At this point, I’m still out of the running for best general, but I’m only a point behind the best dark elf, so I may have a shot at that, if I can get a victory against an empire player next round.
Overall, a very fun game and C&C always welcome!

*ok, maybe mature isn’t exactly the right word, but it’s not recommended for youngsters (though very recommended for those old enough)


Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:36 pm
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Your charges for turn two were like a pefectly executed billards shot with his harpies being the cue ball. :)

I would have committed the breath weapon in turn 4 against the Gor. 'Bird in the Hand' and all that don't you know. ;)

A brilliant battle overall and you earned your victory. Good show.


Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:48 pm
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Thanks Gidean! Regarding the breath, it's a something that I'm probably a little too conservative with, along with other one use resources like scrolls and rerolls.

It had not been easy to wrest the information from the dwarven spirit, but few could resist the continued attention from one learned in the dark arts. Getting into the Karak Azgal was relatively easy, but once inside, Serine was surprised to find that they were not alone. The great hall showed signs of recent battle as well as containing an encampment of humans. Serine wondered how the men had gotten the iron wagon into the hold - getting the maneuverable but bulky Sasha through the narrow tunnels had been difficult enough. The elves would have to clear out the humans before advancing to the hidden treasure room where their long journey would come to fruition.


Tigers
Dreadlord on Dragon w/ Ironcurse Icon, Blood Armor, Soulrender, Pendant of Khaeleth
Master BSB on Dark Pegasus w/ heavy armor, shield, sea dragon cloak, Crown of Command, Dragonhelm, Luckstone
Sorceress[DEATH] on Dark Pegasus w/ level 2, Dispel Scroll, Whip of Agony

27 Spearmen w/ full command, Warbanner
10 Repeater crossbowmen w/ musician, shields
5 Dark Riders w/ repeater crossbows, musician
5 Dark Riders w/ repeater crossbows, musician
5 Harpies
5 Harpies
5 Cold One Knights w/ banner, Banner of Eternal Flame, champion, Ring of Hotek
Hydra
Hydra

Empire
Archlector, Fencer’s Blades, Armor of Meteoric Iron
Wizard Lord [HEAVENS], Dispel Scroll
Captain BSB, full plate, Sword of Might, Enchanted Shield, Luckstone
Warrior Priest, Warrior Bane, Dragon Helm, heavy armor, shield, barded warhorse
Engineer, light armor
Engineer

35 Halberdiers, full command
5 Archer Detachment
30 Swordsmen, full command
5 Archer Detachment

3 Demigryphon Knights, champion, standard, Gleaming Pendent
3 Demigryphon Knights, standard, Banner of Swiftness
Hellblaster
Hellblaster
Steam Tank

Setup and Deployment:
The last board of the day was the great hall of Karak Azgal; the board had six pillars which were impassable and I could not fly over as well as two rocky patches which counted as forests that granted hard cover. The empire player was a clubmate and he had played on the board once before. I was one point behind the highest dark elf and would need to grab a significant victory to surpass him. The scenario was standard battleline with the game randomly ending on turn 5, 6, or 7. The major objective was to have a scoring unit completely inside your opponent’s deployment zone at the end of the game and the minor objective was to prevent your opponent doing the same.
For spells I got Soulblight and Caress; he got Iceshard Blizzard, Harmonic Convergence, Curse of the Midnight Wind, and Chain Lightning (he didn't have his usual Comet of Cassendora).
I was able to save my harpies until the hellblasters were placed, and since they were together, I was able to put both units of cubs across from them. Since my characters were the last elements placed, I was able to determine which flank to weight. I could have tried to delay the demigryphs while the dragon smashed up the steam tank, but after the previous attempt at doing so took so long, I thought instead I’d target the demigryphs and work my way east. With this in mind, I could have simply refused the eastern flank and avoided the hellblasters altogether, but with most of my fast elements already aligned, I thought I’d attempt to take them out and pave the way for my heavy hitters in the second half. I deliberately only vanguarded the eastern riders up a little, staying out of range of the hellblasters. When my opponent won the roll for the first turn, he elected to let me go first since everything was out of range of the hellblasters, the dragon and hydras were safely concealed behind a pillar, and having the last turn could be very useful given the objectives.
Image

Tiger turn 1:
I advanced the hydras as quickly as I could and used their bulk to shield the dragon. The spears I advanced as a delivery system for the characters to fly into the hellblasters. I also advanced the dark riders and harpies (keeping everything at long range) figuring that one of them would survive the inevitable hail of lead. The other dark riders stayed stationary as I liked their position. The knights advanced toward the wizard.
I declined magic as it was only 6v5 and I was in range of the ring.
Shooting didn’t do anything significant.
Image

Empire turn 1:
The steam tank generated four steam and used one to advance, saving the other three for the cannon. The archers moved in front of the infantry blocks to clear lanes for the hellblasters and demigryphs. Both units of demis advanced and the engineers moved in front of their machines as speedbumps.
Magic was 12v7 after we both channeled once. I didn’t oppose Iceshard on the dragon (2 dice), Convergence on the Demigrpyhs (2 dice), or Curse on the western riders (3 dice) so that I’d have dispel dice left to prevent Chain Lightning. When the 4 dice Chain Lightning was attempted, it failed, so I used all 7 dispel dice to negate a one die Ward prayer on the demigryphs.
The steam tank’s cannon erupted with a roar and had a nice line to go through both hydras and into the dragon, but the ball stopped as it failed to wound the first hydra. The hellblaster opened with a roll of 8 and two misfires; the second misfire was rerolled (because of the engineer) as a 4, but the second caused the total number of shots to be halved to 6 shots total, which all failed to hit any dark riders! The second hellblaster didn’t roll any misfires and the 14 shots hit 7 times and no dark riders survived. One unit of harpies failed the panic check and retreated while the other held fast with the spearmen.
Image

Tiger turn 2:
Since a unit of harpies was available, only the sorceress charged the engineer with the cubs while the BSB flew in to hold up the swordsmen; the cubs initially failed, but I used the game reroll to ensure they made it. The dragon charged the western demigryphs while the dark riders ran around their rear. The knights charged a unit of archers and then redirected into the flank of the other demigryphs; the hydras tried to charge in as well as they only needed a 4 and 5 to make it in, but both rolled a three for distance leaving the tiger cavalry to tackle the eagle-horses alone. The fleeing cubs continued to run and stopped at the edge of the board.
Magic was 7v5 and I used all the dice for a bubble Soul Blight which was negated by a dispel scroll. Just for kicks he rolled the five dispel dice and would have gotten an irresistible dispel.
The sorceress ran over the engineer pretty easily while the harpies inflicted only two wounds, one of which was saved by the engineer’s light armor! After a failed counterpunch, the engineer held. The knights killed one demigryph before losing two of their own and the demigryphs held. The dragon lost a wound while she and her rider inflicted two wounds on the unit and one on the warrior priest.
Image

Empire turn 2:
The steam tank again generated four steam points and used one to advance while keeping three for the cannon. The swordsmen charged my BSB, the archers rallied, and the halberdiers reformed to face the hellblasters. The remaining archer detachment repositioned slightly so that on a charge and overrun would not lead directly into the halberdier’s flank.
Magic was 12v7 after I channeled once and he channeled twice. I barely dispelled a Ward prayer on the demigryphs (2v3) but didn’t oppose a Reroll Wound prayer (2 dice). I was able to dispel Iceshard on the dragon(2v4), but then couldn’t counter a Convergence on the central unit of demigryphs. Finally, the last four dice was used to cast a Chain Lightning on a hydra which failed to make it past the regeneration and also failed to bounce onto another target. The wizard was close enough to the ring to miscast on this last spell and the resulting explosion failed to wound the wizard, but took a few swordsmen as well as wounding my BSB!
The steam tank’s cannon misfired and wounded the machine. The unengaged hellblaster took aim at the spearwomen and misfired, but the engineer was able to reroll it; the 12 shots killed 4-5 spearwomen.
In combat the harpies finished off the engineer while the sorceress killed the hellblaster crew and reformed to look at the other one. The dragon took two wounds while inflicting two more and everyone held. The other unit of demigryphs surprisingly couldn’t hit the knights while the knights managed to get two wounds through! The BSB killed the unit champion and held on stubbornly.
Image

Tiger turn 3:
The spearwomen charged the archers and the western hydra charged the demigryph knights while the other moved toward the halberdiers. The sorceress charged the remaining hellblaster and the harpies joined her to ensure that all crew would be killed and the sorceress could overrun. The dark riders started the long sweep around and the crossbowomen started to march toward the opposite corner (not shown). The fleeing harpies decided that with both hellblasters dealt with, it was safe to remain on the board.
Magic was 10v7 and all dice were used on a bubble Soulblight which was irresistibly dispelled.
The dark riders took some potshots at the archers but everything missed.
In combat the central demigryphs lost a few more wounds and put one wound on the hydra before breaking; since the last one alive was the bannerman, he was removed instantly. The tiger cavalry reformed to face the dragonfight while the hydra overran into the archers. The dragon finally killed off the warrior priest and put another wound on the knights accepting one in return; the demigryphs broke, killing the bannerman outright. This left only one demigryph knight left at only one wound and since I didn’t think I had anything that could reliably take that last wound off, I pursued and caught him. The sorceress and harpies dispatched the crew and overran, though the harpy distance was pretty small. The spearwomen inflicted only 4 wounds (despite the diagram) and declined to pursue into the pillar since the last archer could not rally (except on double 1s, which he failed to get and ran off the board); instead the spearwomen turned to face the metal monstrosity that was surely coming toward them.
Image

Empire turn 3:
The halberdiers charged the harpies; an overrun or pursuit would lead directly into the sorceress on a 9+(?) so I fled with them. The halberdiers then redirected into the sorceress and needed 10+ to catch her, but I saw little reason to chance that and I also wanted to ensure the halberdiers didn’t move any further east than I could prevent, so I fled with the sorceress. The steam tank generatated a pile of steam, but misfired, causing a minor leak and lost 1 steam point; it still had enough to connect with the spearwomen.
Magic was 12v6 and I didn’t oppose a Curse on the spearwomen (3 dice) or a Convergence on the tank(2 dice). When a 5 dice Chain Lightning was cast (and miscast due to the ring) I opposed with all 6 dispel dice and barely managed to catch it. The miscast caused a level drain of 2 levels (along with Chain Lightning and Iceshard Blizzard). The last two power dice were used singly on a failed 4+ Ward prayer and a successful Reroll Wound prayer. (Disclaimer: I think I had forgotten my sorceress was fleeing and if so the Chain Lightning should have been successful – I don’t think it would have massively affected the final outcome, but I still offer apologies to my opponent for my oversight).
The hydra ate all the archers and looked east to the swordsmen. My BSB managed to kill his BSB either this round or the previous without damage to herself (though she did use her Luckstone). The steam tank rolled over the bodies of 11 spearwomen; spears predictably failed to successfully wound the steam tank (with the hex and buff in play, it would have taken an average of about 1500 attacks just to get one wound!). The infantry was still steadfast though and held their ground.
Image

Tiger turn 4:
The hydra barreled into the flank of the swordsmen. I chose to try rallying the harpies first and failed; they ran over the sorceress (no panic since she was already fleeing) but stayed on the board. The sorceress did rally and turned to face the halberdiers. The unengaged hydra moved around to get a good look at the steam tank, though really I was just trying to get in position for a 5th turn breath on the halberdiers and/or set up a 6th turn charge. The harpies flew up so that they could either charge the steam tank or just get in its way once it had dispatched all the spearwomen. The dragon moved as fast as she could toward the halberdiers while maintining a good facing toward the swordsmen as well. The dark riders and crossbowomen both moved east for a few shots and the knights, lacking a musician, simply reformed.
Magic was 8v6 and all dice went into a long range Caress, but was again irresistibly dispelled.
The steam tank engineer shot one of the spearwomen as she and her friends futilely tried to stab the vehicle. Many swordsmen fell to flame, paw, whip, and lance, but at the end of the combat, five swordsmen and the wizard were left standing and refused to run.
Image

Empire turn 4:
The steam tank misfired again for another minor leak, but this time lost 3 steam points. The halberdiers were too far away from the sorceress to charge so simply reformed looking south.
Magic was 7v3 and the first 3 dice were used on a failed casting of Curse. The last 4 were used on a 4+ ward prayer, but I stopped it using my 3 dispel dice.
In combat, the wizard was in contact with the hydra (since he refused a challenge last time and was the only model remaining in the second rank) and died pretty quickly along with the rest of the unit. I lost a handful of spearwomen, but they were still enough left to remain steadfast (again, despite the diagram).
At this point we decided that there was not enough time left to get in turn five so the game ended.
Image

Postgame:
At the end of the day, he was only left with the tank, the archlector, and the halberdiers, while I had lost only one unit of dark riders; it was a 20-0 victory to me pretty solidly.
Deployment-wise, I was pretty pleased with my setup, while I questioned him splitting his infantry blocks as well as keeping his tank to a far flank. He was a little off balance not having Comet this game (over 90% chance of getting it). His warmachines did not treat my opponent well this game either. His two cannon shots failed to wound once and misfired the other time. His first hellblaster volley doing absolutely nothing was huge as it allowed my harpies to charge in freeing up my BSB to cause trouble on the other flank. His tank having steam generation troubles did nothing to help. I was ok with magic overall, despite not getting any spell off whatsoever.
The board was interesting (and beautiful as well) though the most important piece of terrain may have been the north central pillar – essentially dividing the battle into two halves that only my knights and BSB crossed.


Tournament Results:
When the last of the men and their armored cart had been allowed to exit, the great hall was indeed theirs. Finding the hidden chamber had not been hard, and what treasures were contained within! With the new riches, several other excursions could be funded, more elves recruited, and more tigers bred and blessed. Serine would indeed return home triumphant!

I did feel a little bad for my good luck in the final game, as my opponent would have tied for best empire general had he been able to score even a single battlepoint. My margin of victory was enough to propel me into the best dark elf general at the tournament (dark elves being the most numerous army there), 7th in battlescores, and 15th overall (of 78 participants).
My painting, and to a lesser extent sports, scores could definitely use some work. Almost as important, is my timing, which surprised me, since I usually didn’t run into time issues while practicing. Only the first game made it past turn four. During the tournament, I was pretty sure it was mutually the fault of me and my opponents, but in reflection, the common denominator is me. I’m not sure if I’m over analyzing the situation or just being to chatty during the game.
I met a lot of great people at the tournament, but was pleasantly surprised to see another dark elf dragon list! He was running no magic(!), no hydras(!), a pair of nobles on pegs, BSB on foot, a pair of chariots, small unit of knights, a large block of spears, another of crossbowmen, and a handful of shades. Battlewise, he ended 31st, so a pretty good showing for the druchii dragons.

Post Tournament:
I’m pretty pleased with how the list worked out and I’m not sure if I would change anything with the list if I could do it again, though experimentation with different builds might be fun. Over on the high elf forums Curu Olannon transitioned his core from a spear heavy force to archer anchors and I think something similar could be tried with dark elf crossbowmen.
For now, I’m taking a break from the dragonlist to try some other warhammer projects. I’m not sure when I’ll return, though there is a 2400 point tournament next June that I might bring the dragon to. My initial though is to keep everything the same except for another character to carry the Seal of Ghrond (possibly a mage) – the extra dispel die seems like it would be very useful.
Anyway, thanks for following along on all tournament prep and execution! Any comments and criticism is always welcome!


Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:35 am
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Takes a big man to admit he can improve on his sportsmanship. :) Do you think:

1) It was because you were perceived as playing too slow? I myself have trouble with that. It is very hard for me to finish a 2500 point game in two hours. Two and half hours is doable but 2 hours seems too short. One thing that is a pet peeve of mine is players who pick up their dice too soon. So when I roll my 20 plus dice for shooting or a landing a large template over a unit, I tend to pick out the misses and leave the hits for my opponent to view. This tends to bog down some phases.

2) Or were you contentious with some of the rules?

3) Or was it maybe because of your honest mistakes like the sorceress dispelling while she was in flight? Or the mistake you were making with the ‘move over’ rule when you had multiple units engaged in a combat?

You definitely outplayed this Empire player in spite of his lack of luck. Why would he flee with his archers to give you a flank charge into his demi-knights?! And you were spot on with his deployment of the tank. It was bad enough to stick on the far flank but then to risk a dangerous terrain test when he drove through the stalactites? Or is it stalagmites? I can never remember which. ;)

Regarding your painting score, I suspect it might be more with the models you chose. While the theme is really cool they appear to be toys painted over. Some people are turned off by that in our hobby.

Congrats on being the Best Dark Elf General. :)


Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:06 pm
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That was a lunch hour well spent! Thanks & a big congratz on the win & the write up. Taking time to include rules that were played wrong or forgotten will serve as reminders for me, thanks for those clarifications as well.

I do have two questions if you wouldn't mind taking some time to answer:

1) Charging fleeing units. How does that play out in step by step fashion? How does a second unit of Charges factor in?

This weekend I had a situation where I had two free, flying units, within 7-8 inches of a fleeing Ogre unit. The way we worked it out was that I had to declare charges with both of my units so that we could decide what direction the unit would flee (away from the strongest). Rolled the Ogres then my two units, as both of my units were faster, it was BRB’d that the fleeing unit was caught where it stood and I was allowed to re-form on the spot only. There was no over-run.

2) What was the original plan for the HellBlasters? 2 units of harpies to screen, 1 unit of DR’s to shoot & the option of the BSB charge? I ask because it’s enemy #1 in our league & I’ve been going the avoidance route.

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Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:16 pm
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@Gidean: My sportsmanship score wasn't bad per se, it just was near the low end of the tournament, which is very believable given that it attracts a pretty good crowd. You rank essentially rank each opponent on a scale of 1-5 where 3 is an average game that you'd be happy to play again, 4 is a good game, and 5 is a truly wonderful experience (and a lot of 5s get given out, but that's a different topic). You're also given bonus points for being selected 'favorite opponent' at 5 points a vote. From what I can guess, I scored an average of about 4.5 points a game along with a best game vote. Taking that at face value, I'd be pretty ok giving everyone a pretty good game as well as an excellent game from another person. At the same time I'm comparing myself to top finishers who somehow manage to beat their opponent and gather favorite opponent votes. I think a big part of that is being very comfortable with your army and confidence in your ability to take on anything; once you have that, you can start enjoying yourself more and not take everything so seriously - I' close to that, but not quite yet.
1) On timing, I do play slow, but I doubt that it was a big factor in my sports scores since in every game another turn would have widened my margin of victory. For rolling I usually do as you do and roll a big pile and pick out the misses, leaving the successes on the table and confirming with my opponent before scooping them up. It is a little more time consuming, but I'd like to think it prevents any bad impressions (true or not).
2) There were a few rule discussions, but I don't think any were really contentious. A few came down to a 4+ die roll, but I don't think I was argumentative.
3) Mistakes happen; if they are pointed out to me I apologize and try to rectify the situation, but the two you mention in particular I didn't even notice until doing the report and I don't think my opponents noticed either (or if they did they didn't mention anything).

Again, overall, I didn't score badly, just not as high as I'd like :)

The scattered rocks counted as forest with hard cover, so I don't think the tank took any dangerous terrain tests.

You could be correct on the model selection, but at the same time I have no illusions as to my level of skill. It is tabletop quality, but not much more than that. I'm pretty happy with it, but if I wanted to start aiming for overall placing it's something I'd need to work on.

@xFallenx: As soon as you declare a charge with one unit, the target makes a charge reaction and resolves it immediately (ie if it flees, it flees before other charges are declared). If a fleeing unit is charged, it must again flee directly away from the charging unit, even if that brings it closer to the unit it fled from first. If a charging unit's target has fled it can make one redirect with a successful ld check. After all charges are declared (and flee reactions taken) then you roll for charge distances and move all chargers.
This order of events makes fast elements (like harpies or dark riders) essential. Say you charge a big block of something with your executioner horde and your opponent decides to flee. If you harpies are in charge range after they flee (ie less than 22 inches away) you declare a charge and they'll have to flee again, oftentime off the board at that point.
So in your situation, the ogres should have fled twice, but you did reform correctly after that; there is no overrun.

The plan was to move the spearwomen as a bunker for the two pegasus mounted characters; the spearwomen would take the hits, but the characters would be unscathed. This was really the only element I needed, but the dark riders and harpies were in position, so I advanced them as well. I figured I'd lose two of the three, but then if the third could pass the panic, it'd be available to charge as well. The had the bonus of taking focus off the spears, which I liked since I thought I'd need their ranks in the second half to break the halberdiers.
Against hellblasters, avoidance is good, multiple threats are ok, but I really like the spearmen 'missile launcher'. Another good option would be pegasus masters specifically equipped for the task (Cloak of Hag Grief and the Pendant come to mind). As one last option, remember you can target the engineer with our crossbows - he'll get a 'look out sir' but with T3 1-2 volleys should do it. The hellblaster will still be there but it won't be nearly as reliable.

Thanks for the comments and congratulations!


Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:01 pm
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A chariot or in this case, 'tank' moving through the woods takes a dangerous terrain test and I believe fails on a 1 or 2...


Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:18 pm
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The BRB has tank listed as 'unique' (though this was also for the previous empire book). In some ways it acts very much like a chariot, so I wouldn't be surprised if it had to take dangerous terrain checks as such, but the rules specifying that would be in the empire book. I'll check with my friend next chance I see him.


Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:43 pm
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Thanks for the reply Cycloptic, but I'm not sure I agree, at least not 100%.
But I'll start a new post so as not to muddy your collection of reports.

Thanks for the idea of the Peggy fire base. That is an awesome idea. Keep up the great work!

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Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:12 am
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cycloptic squirrel wrote:
The BRB has tank listed as 'unique' (though this was also for the previous empire book). In some ways it acts very much like a chariot, so I wouldn't be surprised if it had to take dangerous terrain checks as such, but the rules specifying that would be in the empire book. I'll check with my friend next chance I see him.


I have the Empire book in my hand. Troop type for Steamtank is....wait for it....Chariot! It would have taken dangerous terrain since anything but open ground is such to a chariot. It only fails on a 1 but would take a D6 wounds if it fails. p. 117.

Now you don't have to feel bad about your sorceress dispelling while she was fleeing. hehe. :lol:


Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:48 am
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@ Gidean: Wow, now I know for next time! And I'm not the only one who made an oversight :D Thanks!

@xFallenx: sounds good - you'll likely get a better discussion from a wider range of people in a new thread as well (though I'm always happy to discuss stuff here if that'd be your preference)


Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:04 am
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Well, I had a few other warhammer projects, but now that they're wrapped up, I'm looking forward to playing around with the dragon again; I have my eye on a summer tournament at 2400 points.
Since this was pretty much a continuation of the previous army, I thought I'd keep the old thread (under a new name) just so everything was in one place.

I don't think there will be any fundamental changes going from 2200 to 2400; people will just have a few more points to play around with things, which I think translates into higher probabilities for stronger magic, more war machines, and bigger death stars. None of these are great for the dragon, but the threats are no different than I was facing before.

I really enjoyed the 2200 list I was using I think very little will change beyond adding 200 points. What exactly I will do with these points is a little up in the air at the moment. For reference, this is what I was running:

Dreadlord on Dragon w/ Ironcurse Icon, Blood Armor, Soulrender, Pendant of Khaeleth
Master BSB on Dark Pegasus w/ heavy armor, shield, sea dragon cloak, Crown of Command, Dragonhelm, Luckstone
Sorceress[DEATH] on Dark Pegasus w/ level 2, Dispel Scroll, Whip of Agony

27 Spearmen w/ full command, Warbanner
10 Repeater crossbowmen w/ musician, shields
5 Dark Riders w/ repeater crossbows, musician
5 Dark Riders w/ repeater crossbows, musician
5 Harpies
5 Harpies
5 Cold One Knights w/ banner, Banner of Eternal Flame, champion, Ring of Hotek
Hydra
Hydra



Of the 200 additional points, 50 points must be spent on core. I've thought about using the points to transition the spears into a big block of crossbows. 22 crossbows pack a ranged punch, and if reformed into ranks shouldn't function all that differently from the spears, especially if the BSB joins.
Alternatively, I could use the points to increase the size of the spearblock - if I pull the toys from the other core, I could even get their number above 40 and have the option of hording if I really need to put out some attacks.
A third option is just to throw in 10 naked spears as another drop and redirector; not sure if I like this option as I don't see them doing or threatening much for their points. If I pulled in some non-core points, I could even upgrade the 10 to crossbows or corsairs so that they could actually do something.
At this point, I like the first option best, but I don't yet have the field experience with large blocks of crossbows to know for sure.

I'd really like to put a seadragon cloak on the lord or if points allow, upgrade his armor to armor of darkness (only 5-10 points).

For the remainder, there are a lot of options:
Another unit of harpies for even more redirectors.
Bulk up the knights; I'd lose a bit in expendability, but gain in damage output and staying power.
Shades are an intriguing option; scouting and skirmishing means they can usually be in the right place at the right time, but I'm not sure if my list is especially lacking in the firepower that they bring.
A bolt thrower might be interesting; a little firepower and a psychological target that might be able to pull in some chaff.
I haven't really played around with witches all that much; a unit of 14 could be a credible threat or a pack of 5 could be fun to run around.
I could de-mount the sorceress and run another pegmaster. He could get into fights without worrying too much about counterattacks as well as putting out some damage on his own. I could even put a Seal of Ghrond on him to help with the anti-magic.
The magic defense option is to add another sorceress with the Seal. It would give me another channel, another spell, an extra dispel die, and also make the mounted sorceress more expendable since I wouldn't lose all my magic if she dies. I'd even have the points for either the Tome of Furion if I wanted to increase my spell selection or the Scepter of Stability if I wanted even more anti-magic protection. The drawback with her is that she's on foot and thus would have to go with one of the core blocks or run around on her own.

I like the last option best since I didn't feel I was missing much of anything in the previous list except for magic defense. Another death spell is also another chance to get purple sun against ogres (still my greatest fear, the ironblasters in particular).

What do you guys think? Am I missing any options? Was my previous list lacking in any particular area of the game? What is the best way to spend the extra points?


Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:14 pm
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Corsair

Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:54 pm
Posts: 86
I got distracted by a Brettonian concept army, which I'm still working on, but I'm slowly coming around to the dragon again. The big change in the meta is the new warriors book, which beyond new warrior lists I might face, I think people are more likely to bring cannons and metal magic to deal with warrior lists - neither is good for a dragon. So while the meta just got harder, I still think this is viable.
I decided to give the massed shooting a try as well as add in some anti-magic elements. I also put the level one on metal magic, just as another resource to deal with all the monstrous cav running around.

I was able to grab a game vs a new warriors list - so I got to try out an upgraded list as well as see some of the toys warriors can now bring to bear.

Tigers
Dreadlord on Dragon w/ sea dragon cloak, Blood Armor, Soulrender, Pendant of Khaeleth, Ironcurse Icon
Master BSB on Dark Pegasus w/ heavy armor, shield, sea dragon cloak, Crown of Command, Dragonhelm, Luckstone
Sorceress[METAL] on Dark Pegasus, Dispel Scroll, Whip of Agony
Sorceress [DEATH], lv 2, Seal of Grhond, Scepter of Stability

22 Repeter Crossbowomen w/ shield, full command
10 Repeater Crossbowomen w/ musician
5 Dark Riders w/ repeater crossbows
5 Dark Riders w/ repeater crossbows

5 Harpies
5 Harpies
5 Cold One Knights w/ banner, Banner of Eternal Flame, champion, Ring of Hotek
Hydra
Hydra

Warriors of Chaos
Deamon Prince w/ Mark of Nurgle, Charmed Shield, Scaly Skin (+2 AS), Souldfeeder (regain wounds)
BSB w/ mark of Tzeench, enchanted shield, Talisman of Protection

25 Warriors, shields, full command, warbanner
10 Maruaders, champion
10 Maruaders, champion
10 Maruaders, champion

Gorebeast Chariot, mark of Khorne
Gorebeast Chariot, mark of Khorne
Warshrine, mark of Tzeench
5 Knights, enscorcelled weapons, mark of Khorne, Banner of Eternal Flame
Hellcannon
Hellcannon

Setup and Deployment:
I had choice of sides, and though there wasn’t much difference I chose the side without the impassible rocks, possibly forcing a split of the opposing forces.
My chaff went down pretty standardly while he placed his marauders around the shrine, after which everything pretty much went centrally. I had to place my characters before his, and no idea where the prince was going, I thought I’d try to bring the dragon to bear either on the knights or chariots. His prince went to the opposite side – I wasn’t’ sure if he was avoiding the dragon or going after my shooting, but either way, I was pleased.
For spells I got Searing Doom, Doom and Darkness, and Caress while my opponent got Plaugewind (T test vortex), Fleshy Abundance (Regen), Rancid Visitations (MM causing d6 S5 hits repeats if fail a T test), and Curse of the Leper (+/- d3 toughness). His magic worried me a bit, especially with all the T tests on my squishy T3, but hoped my new anit-magic would keep me safe.
Image

Tiger turn 1:
The eastern riders advanced out of the prince’s line of sight, while the two units of crossbows advanced just a bit to get in range. The knights started moving laterally across the field, their main objective to get near the prince and hope he cascades himself into the void. Otherwise I was a little cautious, advancing just enough to force some frenzy checks from the chariot and knights, but also close enough the dragon could start charging things – with two hellcannons around, I didn’t want him unengaged. The harpies simply redeployed to the center, staying in reserve for later.
Magic was 2v1 and he dispelled my attempt at Power of Darkness.
I threw some shooting into the Prince, simply to make sure that, yes, he was sitting on a 1+ armor save (if he wasn’t my plan would have been to try and fill him full of bolts). Otherwise, only three marauders fell to the rest of the shooting.
Image

Chaos turn 1:
The chariot and knights both charged, but thankfully didn’t roll the 11+ needed. The prince advanced aggressively, looking to get into the flank of my shooting and the infantry moved up as well.
Magic was 5v5 and I let a Curse of the Leper (2v0) off on my large block of crossbows for -1 T, but dispelled Rancid Visitations on the same unit (2v4), saving one die to oppose the shrine, but it failed to cast.
The first hellcannon took aim at my knights, catching the BSB as well, but misfired consuming its dwarven crew. The second hellcannon took the same target but the shot veered 10” north.
Image

Tiger turn 2:
The dragon was now spoiled for targets, but decided to take out the artillery since I figured they were the most dangerous. I had wanted to charge the western one since I figured the eastern one wouldn’t be firing anymore without its crew, but then changed my mind since the crewless cannon was an inch closer (which ended up mattering since I rolled exactly what I needed). The knights charged one unit of marauders, hoping to break them and pursue into the shrine, while the dark riders charged the other two units of marauders. The hydras moved up to make use of their breath weapons while the crossbows advanced to shoot them as well. One unit of harpies stayed in reserve, but out of range of the prince while the other unit moved to redirect the gorebeast chariot. Finally, the BSB moved to intercept any warriors still standing, figuring he could hold them and the hydras could come in the following round to help clean up.
Magic was 7v6 and the flying sorceress cast Power of Darkness for a gain of one die and then her Searing Doom was dispelled (3v2). The death sorceress cast Power of Darkness for a gain of 2 dice and cast a long range Caress (4v0) on the BSB, but I rolled 5 for a net of no hits. Finally Doom and Darkness on the warriors was dispelled (3v4).
The hydras breathed for a total of 27 hits, 19 wounds, and 12 kills; 44 bolts brought down another three. The small unit of crossbows shot at the shrine, but none wounded.
In combat, without the crew to soak wounds, the dragon and rider put three on the hellcannon and the dragon took one in return. In a display of failure, the knights only killed three marauders and they held steadfastly, while the southern riders killed 3, overran into the remaining marauder combat and helped kill 8 of them; the last two were run down. All this marauder death unnerved the shrine, which failed its panic and ran from the knights (who were the closest unit).
Image

Chaos turn 2:
The prince charge the flank of the large unit of crossbows, the warriors charged the BSB, and even though I had intended to redirect the chariot, I had once again placed the harpies too far away, allowing the chariot to barely wheel past them and into the hydra! The shrine rallied, the marauders did not, and the knights and chariot moved into prime flanking positions.
Magic was 7v7 and six dice go into casting Plaugewind down the crossbowomen line, but the vortex distance misfired, starting on the prince and moving southeast (still hitting and killing two elves). The resulting miscast saw the prince lose three levels of magic and all spells except for Fleshy Abundance.
The hellcannon aimed for the unengaged hydra but veered again.
In combat the crossbow champion bravely challenged and was struck down; I was still steadfast and within BSB range. Immediately after, the BSB had to slide out of range to accept his BSB’s challenge. I couldn’t get past the 3+ ward, but he put two wounds on me; I’m stubborn and fine, but pretty sure she’s toast next round. The knights, shamed by their previous performance, killed six marauders and let the last flee, instead reforming to look at the warriors. The dragon finished the hellcannon and after a bit of consideration, decided to help the BSB as well. The chariot only put three wounds on the hydra, easily broke her, failed to catch, but slammed into the other hydra.
Image

Tiger turn 3:
The dragon and knights charge the warriors, the hydra rallies, and I block off the chariot and knights with harpies (being extra careful this time) so that the dragon wouldn’t get a nasty surprise in her rear. The dark riders run around, almost without purpose at this point.
Magic is 9v6 and I gain one die with Power of Darkness. The Searing Doom is dispelled (4v6) and since I’m out of range for any Caress Targets, I attempt to cast Doom and Darkness on the warriors, using only four dice since I want to avoid a miscast, but fail to roll the 8+ I need!
All my shots aimed at reducing the fleeing marauders below 25% fail.
In combat, I opt to fight the warriors first, (foolish since the hydra will likely need the BSB and she’s about to die). To my surprise, his BSB whiffs; my BSB cannot get anything either. My knights and dragon kill 6 warriors, leaving him with five models left; his warrior kills a single knight. At this point I’m a little concerned as my lord is out of base to base so cannot attack, but I have three cold one attacks… which all miss. I hold my breath as I thunderstomp and get only two hits. Both wound and he only makes one! With only four models, he’s no longer steadfast, breaks, and is run down by the BSB and knights. Between a poor round of impacts and attacks for him and amazing regeneration by me, the hydra only takes a single wound, causes one in return, holds, and reforms. The prince start whomping on crossbowomen, but I hold on steadfast.
Image

Chaos turn 3:
The chariot and knights slam into the harpies destroying them easily and overrunning. The hellcannon targets the fast cav, veers off only 2”, killing three and causing them to run. The hydra has another amazing round, taking only one wound and causing three. The crossbowomen are looking a little depleted and he might take me under steadfast, so the sorceress challenges and is cut down, but I’m able to stick on steadfast.
Magic was 11v7, and the Regen spell was cast irresistibly causing a small detonation, with one dead elf and one wound on the prince.
Image

Tiger turn 4:
I spent a moment deciding between the hellcannon and knights, but reasoned I could deal with the latter with magic but had few ways to deal with the demonic artillery, so the dragon off the dragon went. The dark riders rallied, while the other unit and crossbows moved to take some shots at the knights. I reasoned the knights could handle the shrine and prevent the dragon getting rear-ended. The BSB was staying near the hydra, but with only one wound left, was mostly trying to stay out of trouble.
Magic was 10v6 and with only one spell I threw 8 dice at large Searing Doom, figuring we were now even on levels, and two extra dice should be enough to ensure success while minimizing the chances for miscast. I rolled low, he rolled high and it was dispelled…
Two dozen bolts couldn’t find their way past chaos armor.
The hydra took two more wounds but couldn’t cause one. The dragon took a wound, put three wounds on the hellcannon of which two were saved by crew acting as human shields (err.. dwarven shields). The prince surprisingly only killed six soldiers, leaving five who stayed on steadfast.
Image

Chaos turn 4:
The chariot spun a bit looking for targets while the knights started to bear down on the crossbows. The shrine crashed into the knights, killed two, the standard died while breaking, and the champion escaped. The prince killed the remaining five elves he was still engaged with. The dragon and rider only managed only two wounds, but the last dwarf didn’t feel sacrificing himself. The hydra and chariot were both at one wound remaining; his high strength attacks went first but failed to produce, while the hydra managed to get two wounds through.
Magic was 11v6, and the prince got the Regen spell off on himself.
Image

Tiger turn 5:
I considered charging everything I could into the remaining gorebeast chariot, but it had all five wounds left, and it wasn’t worth risking the flying sorceress (all three wounds, but only T4), the one wound hydra, the one wound BSB, and the T3 riders and harpies. Instead, I simply played the avoidance game, while the crossbows, resigned to their fate simply stood and fired at close range, bringing down one knight.
Magic 5v4 and Power of Darkness didn’t increase the net total. I threw five dice at upgraded Searing Doom reasoning I’d need to roll high to beat his four dice; I failed to meet the casting value.
In combat the dragon finished off the hellcannon and reformed looking to center.
Image

Chaos turn 5:
The chariot spun again, looking for a target. The shrine charged the dragon and they traded a wound. The knights charge the crossbows, losing two to the stand and shoot, the deamon prince joined them; together no elf was left standing, the knights overran, and the prince looked to the middle. Magic was something and the regen spell was cast again.
Image

Tigers turn 6:
I played avoidance and tried to get the last two knights, but no none fell to bolts. Magic was 10v6 and I gained two dice with Power of Darkness. Still playing safe, I only threw nine dice at upgraded Searing Doom, which was irresistibly dispelled.
In combat I beat the shrine and would have let it escape, but since I wanted to see how to dragon went against the prince in practice (theory favors the prince), so I ran down the shrine.
Image

Chaos turn 6:
The chariot and shrine charged the dragon. Three impact hits were divvied one to the dragon which failed to wound, and two the rider which were saved by armor. In the challenge, the prince only did one wound to the dragon, I couldn’t get past the prince’s armor, but I passed the ld 7 break check.
Image


Postgame:
We didn't count points, but he only had his prince, knights, and one chariot left (1500 VPs?), while I had lost only one unit of harpies, all my crossbows, and one mage (600 VPs?). So a pretty solid win, though it would have been much different if I had second turn and/or the hellcannons had better shooting.
I really like the Seal – an extra dispel die every round really takes the edge off of not having the level 4. Overall, I like the magic setup, but I think I need a new strategy as to how I utilize the mages. I don’t think the crossbows did anything that the spears couldn’t do, but perhaps it would have been different if they hadn’t been targeted by the prince. I'll need a few more games before I can give them a solid evaluation.
With two hellcannons, a warshrine, and an assist with the warriors, the dragon definitely earned her points this game. Once again, I can’t be as cavalier with the harpies redirection as I am – perhaps this time it will sink in.
For the warrior list – very strong. With the a few very notable exceptions, I think the new warrior book is pretty balanced and I think I was facing some of the more dangerous options. There are few good answers many people have for hellcannons and it’s dangerous to ignore them. The gorebeast chariots are amazing – 5W and T6 for the amount of points is a great buy. The deamon prince though - utterly broken – I’m not sure what GW was thinking with this guy. Everything he has isn’t terrible in isolation – 1+ AS, T5, 5+ ward, nurgle plus 9WS, unbreakable, flight, regain wounds; but put it all together and you have something that few people have an answer for except for a cannon to the face; if he came down the center, I’m not quite sure what I’d do – I think he grinds out the dragon, though it’d take a few turns. Then again, looking at my setup with a large model that’s difficult to take out, I suppose I shouldn’t throw rocks.


Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:23 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:47 am
Posts: 1042
A New Cycloptic Squirrel Batrep?! Oh why did I come upon this after midnight! Ok...link copied and sent to work email for my coffee break tomorrow. Will comment. :)


Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:48 am
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