Death or glory - 500 pts newbie list
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Author:  Rowena [ Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Death or glory - 500 pts newbie list


I have never played the game and do not know if I am going to like it. Therefore I want to create a small army for trying out. I want it to have a reasonable chance of winning and I want it to allow me to learn the basic principles (which a purely shooting force, for example, would probably not suffice to).

So far I have bought 20 spearmen, five of them are already painted. And I would like to include some witch elves, because Blood Vestals from Raging Heroes are just too cool to miss. Apart from that there are hopefully no resrictions regarding what I can or cannot field.
I have no idea who I will be fighting against. Several different armies, most probably.

I have this list in mind (pleas correct me if I apply the rules wrongly):

20 spearmen, standard bearer, musician, 149 points
10 corsairs, standard bearer, sea serpent standard, 135 points
5 witch elves, 50 points
5 witch elves, 50 points
sorceress (shadow), tome of furion, 115 points
- totalling 499 points

The plan is: spearmen as a meet shield, soaking damage and enemy charges. Corsairs for their many attacks and at least mediocre survivability. Witch elves hiding behind these two and then joining combat with their devastating charge. Sorceress for reducing the ballistic skill of enemy archers and generally crippling the opponent.

I am aware this army is vulnerable to missile heavy opponents, but I have no idea how big this problem is, how many players are using such builds. I should maybe swap one unit of witch elves for some harpies or shades to hunt down warmachines and archers? But the idea of two groups of witch elves working together and charging the same foe the same turn is not easy to resist.
I am aware that I have little choices againts high toughness and armour models as well. I would answer with lore of metal or the sheer ammount of attacks.
What makes me really nervous is how much I depend on getting the charge. But maybe I can allow a charge into the corsairs as well. If it is not by a really nasty foe, they may lose their frenzy, but could stand their ground. And then the enemy is open to my witch elves. This means two units get the charge, two units get charged and in the sum I could still gain the upper hand. What do you think?

Generally I think that I either gloriously win, or gloriously die. :D Which is completely fine provided it really the case.

Author:  Blackphantom [ Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:41 am ]
Post subject: 

Rowena wrote:
20 spearmen, battle standard, musician, 149 points
10 corsairs, sea serpent standard, 135 points
5 witch elves, 50 points
5 witch elves, 50 points
sorceress (shadow), tome of furion, 115 points
- totalling 499 points

spearmen: battle standard: is this really meant as battle standard, or just standard bearer?
rulebook wrote:
One Master or Death Hag in the army may carry
the Battle Standard for +25 points

for the corsairs, you need atleast a standard bearer to carry a magic standard like the SSS.

If you want those guys to fight, i'd atleast get a champion.

Author:  Ming [ Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:00 am ]
Post subject: 

I know you prefer two separate witch elves units; but I think one single unit of 10 has more endurance.
If you are worried about missile fire, consider that 5 witches are the perfect target for concentrated fire, for an easy victory point gain.

If you field 10 witches, your opponent has to kill them all to gain victory points.

Against armoured foes or high toughness ones you must rely on magic debuffs.

Author:  Rowena [ Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:23 am ]
Post subject: 

@ BlackPhantom: For the spearmen I mean just the standard bearer, not the battle standard, thanks for correcting. I am going to edit it to avoid further confusion.

The corsair standard bearer is included in the cost, I thought. Ten models, one of them upgraded to serve as a standard bearer, SSS and nothing more should sum up to 135 points, at least I hope so.

* Ming: Good point, will think about it.

Author:  Blackphantom [ Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:44 am ]
Post subject: 

Ah yes, SSS is 25p and standard bearer is 10...
my mistake :p

Author:  Samusin [ Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:56 am ]
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I agree that 10 WE would be better than 5... their longlivety is just not that good ;)

Author:  Daeron [ Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:08 am ]
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The advantage of fielding them in units of 5 is that you can use them as darts. Field them 3 wide, with 2 in support. If the enemy has a caster, charge his unit. Even if you maximize contact, you should be permitted to bring them all in contact with the mage. That's 11 poisoned attacks with a reroll to hit on a mage.

I don't see how placing them in a unit of 10 is going to increase their survivability in this case. Now, the enemy has to choose which unit to fire on. The number of kills he can score is capped at 5. In the charge, two times 5 is just as deadly as 1 times 10. And then, once more, the enemy units needs to choose which target to attack, potentially loosing attacks if he "capped" the kills on one small unit.

I'd say give it a shot. A unit of 10 WE's is a suicidal unit anyhow.

Author:  Miasma [ Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:56 pm ]
Post subject: 

I've been thinking about this list recently as a number of people at my LGC are starting armies from 500 points (although in my opinion 800 should be about the starting level but thats beside the point)

Here is what I have come up with as a 500 point list

Sorceress - 125
General, Lore of Shadow, Ruby Ring of Ruin

16 Warriors - 126
Musician, Standard, Banner of Discipline

5 Harpies - 55

5 Shades - 85
Additional Hand Weapons

10 Witch Elves - 105

Total 496

So for each of the phases I believe you are covered.

Movement. Harpies, I would seriously urge you to learn to use this unit as a redirector, if you like how they fair in the games then add another unit, they also allow you to let your creative side free as you can convert these from any model that you like. Just add wings. Also will be able to learn how to use and combat flying units

Magic. Sorceress, Lore of Shadow I recommend that you use the signature spell in your games for learning the magic phase as Miasma is one of the better signature spells that are around (hence my name swapping character placement when you get another one, jut imagine where you'd like to place your sorceress once you have cast a spell)

Shooting. Shades another unit that I would recommend to anyone, the additional hand weapons allows them to perform in close combat but their main strength in this list is so that you can learn the skirmisher and scouts special rules

Combat. Any of these units can perform in close combat but the unit that you want in combat are your witches, I would recommend holding these back, letting your opponent charge your spears or shades and then try and get in your opponents flank.

Hope this helps and gives you something to consider when you're playing games, these choices will also allow you to paint something different from spear elves!

Author:  Samusin [ Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:39 am ]
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... I would prefer a chariot wih that few points... they hurt like hell then

Author:  Rowena [ Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:12 am ]
Post subject: 

To Miasma:

Thank you very much - I really appreciate you took the educational value of each unit into account as well. :)

So what could happen to the army you suggested: if there is some nasty warmachine, the shades and harpies should be able to deal with it quickly. If there is a strong melee unit, I can block it with spearelves or impair its movement using miasma and avoid it completely until I come up with some clever multiple charge. I can fireball weak supporting units, even if the winds of magic blow weakly. So I should be prepared to most of the situations that can arise. Or do I miss something?

Now I need to think out with my girlfriend how do we convert the shades...

Author:  Miasma [ Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:10 pm ]
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Glad you liked the recommendations, and yes that is a sound battle plan just remember that you'll have to adapt if things aren't working out.
It should also.give you a good indication on what you want next in the list (chariots and more shooting would be good)

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