2400 DE vs WE

[Venomblades]

Hey guys. Got a game coming up against a good mate of mine on tuesday and he's very talented with his WE.

I've just returned from a tournament and the one problem i had facing WE is that i couldnt close the distance quick enough before my troops got pin cushioned.

This list i've come up with, in my mind, applies a lot of pressure in target selection for my opponent and need your feedback. It's mainly fast/avoid with some form of CC element in there incase he has brought CC troops for mop up. Here it is.

2400 list

LORDS

Dreadlord
+Black Dragon
+OTS
+ToP
+Ogre Blade

SS lvl 4
+dark Magic or Shadow (Both lores can reduce BS)
+RoH
+Scroll
+Steed (In with warlocks)

HEROES

Master BSB
+Peg
+Lance
+CoT

CORE

5 Dark Riders
+Shields
+RxB's
+Shields

5 Dark Riders
+Shields
+RxB's
+Shields

5 Dark Riders
+Shields
+RxB's
+Shields

20 Witch Elves or Corsairs (Im thinking Corsairs for better armour saves)
+FC
+Banner of swiftness (Open to ideas for banner, trying to close the distance quickly though)

SPECIAL

Bolt thrower

Bolt thrower

Bolt Thrower

5 Shades
+AHW

5 Shades
+AHW

War Hydra
+Fiery breath

RARE

5 Doomfire Warlocks
+MoW

TOTAL - 2,395

So, my main idea is to use my Dread dragon to hunt his characters.
Pegmaster to assist if needed, or hunt easier units/characters and to also tie down units to stop them from shooting.
Fast cav to blitz around his flanks and soften his shooting units up supported by my bolt throwers.
Witches/Corsairs and Hydra stick togeather incase im confronted by his CC troops. Also, the idea of the hydra is to direct he firing away from other units as we all know that a hydra vs T3 elves is the ultimate playground hahaha.
Shades to try and deploy as close to his shooty units and take them down ASAP or at least tie them up.
Warlocks and my SS will support with magic from a safe distance and lend a charge if needed.

so, am i on to a winner here or is this list just plain stupid? I feel theres a lot of decisions for him to make on my army as i will be coming in hot.

Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks fellow Druchii!

[Venomblades]

Nothing wrong at all guys?

[T.D.]

Looks not bad for the job.

I'd go Corsairs with +1M, and I'd be careful with the Sorceress. With only 5 bodyguard and no ward, she can be wiped by WE shooting pretty easily. You could possibly put her on foot in the Corsairs instead; that would allow the Warlocks to zoom forward with the Riders, Dragon and Twihard Master. Life lore might be an option with that set up; heal the Corsairs, heal the Dragon/Hydra, threaten Dwellers on his mage bunker.

[Venomblades]

Excellent recommendation! Corsair bunker for wizard is a really nice idea. Will go for that for sure!
Quick question, ring of hotek, would that transfer over to the corsairs or does it just give my wizard a 4+ against Magic?

Life has got me thinking. It's something I rarely use so I might give it another go. I don't really know the best synergies with life but I will find out tomorrow haha.

Thanks for the advice mate.

[NonnoSte]

Hi,
as a WE player I think you've got all you need to play his game.
This way the one of you two who deploys better will have a downhill road to win. Maybe playing something to force more his game in another durection is worth some consideration too.
A lot depends on what he usually likes to run in the end.
Does he play avoidance? Is he keen on Wild Riders? Does he usually run lots of Scouts/Waywatchers? Is he more the shooty WE or the fighty one?

If he tries to go with combat blocks or Treemen there's no way he can win (but I'd consider GW on shades). Otherwise, if he sits back and waits, while peppering you with 60+ arrows per turn you could have hard time to get to his lines, even with the Dragon (a wounded Dragon dies fast against WR.

Double warlocks is surely powerful against WE, as shades are. Last time I hated to shoot down 2x10 shades hit on 6/7. It wasn't easy.

[T.D.]

Quick question, ring of hotek, would that transfer over to the corsairs or does it just give my wizard a 4+ against Magic?

RoH indeed protects the entire unit with MR(3), while doubling his chance of miscast if he casts spells against it.

For Life synergies, check out Dalamar's School of the Arcane in the DRAICH.

Edit: With no ward on your Sorceress beware of the game beginning cheap-shot and Waystalkers.


Incidental:

Take NonnoSte's advice over mine, as he is a WE player, whilst I have a small WE force that I never play with

[Venomblades]

Hmmmm, ok guys thanks a lot. So I guess changes to make would drop the hydra and field another unit of locks? Could spend excess points on shades to bulk them up.

As for my opponent he plays a mixed list but he tends to be more shooting reliant. I don't know what he's bronging exactly but he said its very competitive.

Nonnoste, are you suggesting I switch my list for something else? I didn't know if u meant my list is bad c's WE?

Cheers guys.

[T.D.]

Personally I'd keep the Hydra over a second unit of Loks.

Breath weapon, T5 and Regen will threaten your opponent and take some heat off your Dragon and Cloak of Sparkle Vampire Master.

[marcopollo]

The only time I find that the hydra really shine is against elves -- so take 2 (or 3). The flame template is devastating and they can be kept alive a long time with life magic. WE also have the ability to jump between unguarded woods. So, take care to keep a RBT or two in the woods in your backfield.

I tired this move once with WE.

CoT pegmaster in a unit of corsairs. Marched up the field towards his lines with 2 hydra in behind. Got close enough to charge the CoT master out of the unit into his nasty shooting unit and tied it down. Life healed the CoT pegmaster. Moved the hydras out from behind the corsair unit (reformed the corsair unit actually), and breathed on his big blocks. Toasty!

I had to focus chaff work on his wild riders and glade riders, which I did not win but kept busy enough while my main thrust broke his back just enough to pull out a small win.

[direweasel]

The only time I find that the hydra really shine is against elves -- so take 2 (or 3). The flame template is devastating and they can be kept alive a long time with life magic. WE also have the ability to jump between unguarded woods. So, take care to keep a RBT or two in the woods in your backfield.

I'd generally agree, but he has a black dragon too. That plus a hydra is kinda like 2 hydras, except one is more mobile and has a dreadlord on the back.

[Venomblades]

Hmmm, good discussion all. I'm juggline between juggling the hydra or taking another unit of warlocks and more shades.

Although i understand the benefits of keeping the hydra, would i not benefit more boosting my shade units in numbers?

[direweasel]

Hmmm, good discussion all. I'm juggline between juggling the hydra or taking another unit of warlocks and more shades.

Although i understand the benefits of keeping the hydra, would i not benefit more boosting my shade units in numbers?

Not really - they (the shades) are probably going to die anyway. Not saying don't take them, they will help you prevent his guys from having total board control with their infiltrators. But I wouldn't throw more points into them for not that much return.

[Venomblades]

Thats settled then, the list stays as is! Wish me luck hahaha! Will let u all know how it goes

[anglais]

warlocks kill WE as moblie magical missiles is the best weapon against them. for this reason I suggest taking fire for your SS. Light is very good as well, as Net is the easy way to keep his mages silent.
I would rather drop shades, as anything he blocks your vanguards with gives you points and is gives you overruns/cover/free reforms.

[marcopollo]

warlock magic missile is short range. Against WE they will out-range the warlocks. The only thing warlocks are inefficient against is massed Bow fire. They are still only T3, 6+, 4++. They won't last long against the Bow/gunline armies. Against these armies, I typically keep them back until my less expensive troops disturb their firing effects. But, with fire, you get a very long range which will roast those T3 skirmish elves no problem.

I'm not saying Fire is the best. But against WE, it is an efficient killing tactic.

[Venomblades]

Well.............he got first turn. Enough said lol.

[marcopollo]

Dragon is a big pincushion and a point sink. Too bad 1st turn is such a big deal in this edition.

[T.D.]

Well.............he got first turn. Enough said lol.

- I'll take the shame for my advice

Was there any salvageable learnings from the experience? Anything you'd do differently next time?

[Venomblades]

No it was no ones fault but my own.

My dark riders were pretty much whittled down after my vanguards. Lost momentum straight off the mark.

His ay was all shooting. 1 unit of wild riders and 2 lvl 4's. He tied me up with spells that I had to dispel in my own magic phase so I had next to no dice to cast anything

The only thing I could have changed would be the lore perhaps? Still, WE v any elf is a tough match up, it's all about first turns man.