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SOC Tactics thread - Lizardmen 
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Morathi's Favoured
Morathi's Favoured

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I figured that in the run up to the campaign it would be a good idea to compile a list of tried and tested tactics which we could all have the opportunity to use against our primary targets - The Lizardmen.

I don't want this thread to get bogged down so at this stage while we compile the information I have decided to keep the topic locked and therefore 'read only'. So if you have any ideas or any suggested tactics which you know work send a pm to Underway or myself and we will include it here.

Once we have a few ideas we will either open this thread up for questions or ( more likely ) open a new thread to further discuss the ideas. The net result I hope to be a clear and concise directory of ideas in one thread and the opportunity for discussion in another.


Fri Jan 09, 2004 1:03 am
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Morathi's Favoured
Morathi's Favoured

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About Kroxigors :

One of the fearful Lizzie units due to their s7 attacks and fear causing nature. Remember they can also charge through the little skirmish screen of skinks sitting in front of them.

The tactic I generally employ against these guys is one of two simple options -

1. Charge the Skink skirmish screen with a Chariot, from which the Lizzie guy will often flee as he wants to s7 your Chariot. That's fine, position your Chariot so it is in base to base with 1 Kroxigor only. Perfectly within the rules ( although regarded as cheesey by some - but hey, we are talking about winning the Summer of Chaos here aren't we?? :twisted: ). Unless you are very unlucky with the dice the one Kroxigor in btb will die plus maybe another and hey presto bye bye Kroxi's ;)

2. Tactic number two, to be used if the Lizzie general is too close for comfort is to hit them in the side. An obvious tactic against many units I know but particularly effective against these guys as their large base allows you to get more models into btb, hence more attacks! :D


Sun Jan 11, 2004 9:28 pm
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Morathi's Favoured
Morathi's Favoured

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A couple of suggestions here for dealing with those goddam irritating Skinks 8)


Ostron wrote:
I've played lizardmen a fair amount, and one tactic that has always proven true is to charge any skink units ASAP. It's preferable to do it with Dark Riders, since they can charge while still being out of the Skinks range, and if you manage to get them to break, they will almost certainly run them down. You could do it with COKs too, but I would consider that to be a waste of the cavalry, unless they have absolutely nothing else to do.


Be careful though as Fast Cavalry have a tendency to be susceptible to their poison shots which undoubtably you will face as the charge reaction. Unless you are lucky enough to be able to start your charge from within 9" of course.



/\\// wrote:
Ok just a simple tactic I thought up to use against Skinks.

If your opponent is one to use lots of units of Skinks as scouts/screens etc then careful use of the Black Horror spell can send several units packing in one turn.

To get the best out of this tactic the units of Skinks have to be within close proximity of each other. Remember Black Horror can be cast anywhere within LOS; it doesn't have to be cast on a unit. Cast the spell so that the template touches models in both/all the Skink units it can. With their T of 2 and Ld of 5 this should send them panicking back to the jungles in no time.

This can also be used to knock off Skink units while damaging tougher units such as Saurus at the same time. If a unit of Saurus has a unit os Skinks nearby simply place the template so that it covers one Skink while the rest can cover as many Saurus as it can. Damage can be done to the main Saurus unit while there's still a good chance the Skinks will go as well.


This is a very good idea as any wounds caused mean an instant panic test ( damn that 3d6 leadership though! - bit the more tests they take the more likely they are to fail )

The point here though as AVA points out is the ability to hit several units at once. Skinks will die in droves and any weakening of a Saurus unit can only prove useful when the combats finally go in. If you are lucky you will remaove a rank bonus or two!


Last edited by Dark Alliance on Wed Jan 14, 2004 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Jan 12, 2004 10:37 pm
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Morathi's Favoured
Morathi's Favoured

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An overall suggestion here : Shooting them!

Vanidar wrote:
i have some great knowledge against the lizzies and i have found that the best way to counter them is to waste them away with shooting because of their low armor saves and low movement. they have nothing that can equal u in shooting at all. once they reach u just flank charges and boom dead!


True in some respects although t4 does make this job a little harder. One particularly good target for your RBTs though is the Slann. Being a large target he can be singled out for shooting ( both magical and mundane ) even if he is hiding inside a unit.

I have found shooting to be a particularly effective way of dealing with Saurus cavalry myself too! :twisted:


Mon Jan 12, 2004 10:44 pm
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More good stuff from /\\//\. This time about Lizardmen Heroes


/\\// wrote:

Many Lizardmen players on their dank, swampy forums on the internet may refer to the FSoD and JSoD. Here is a guide to their strengths and weaknesses as they can be very bad news for Sorceresses and RBTs.


The Flying Skink of Doom or FSoD as most Lizardmen players call it can be a relatively cheap and effective way of relieving you of you Wizards and War Machines. It is effectively a Skink Chief with the Cloak of Feathers (he can fly) and maybe the Sword of Might (makng him S5.) He may also have the Mark of Sotek (+1A on the charge) and may carry a blowpipe and light armour and shield. There is a chance he will scout as well meaning he can be killing your RBT crew in turn one. His stats aren't too bad for a Skink with 3A and WS4, BS4 and S4. This tolled up character above will only set back the Lizardman player back around 150 points and a hero slot so he is not to be underestimated.

A big weakness of his is that he is only Ld6 (although he is Cold Blooded.) This means that putting your Sorceress on a Cold One may mean the difference of whether he charges or not (fear). Although stupidity can be a problem it is unlikley to put her in a position where she will be in serious danger. Also if your opponent is taking a magic heavy army with a hefty big Slann then chances are you will need to concentrate more on dispelling rather than casting magic.

Another weakness of the FSoD is his meagre toughness of 3 (though coming from an Elf I am in no position to ridicule!) Use Black Horror to your advantage here. If he is hiding out of LOS in a wood then cast Black Horror just outside of the wood so the template covers the part where he is hiding. Although he has 2 wounds there is the fair chance he will panic.



The Jaguar Saurus of Doom (JSoD)
is the Saurus version of the FSoD. This basically involves a Saurus Hero with the Charm of the Jaguar Warrior (makes him M9!) his other equipment and marks may vary but his job will usually be to hunt Wizards and War Machine crews. This guy's stats are impressive with WS5, S5, T4, A4 and Ld8 (plus Cold Blooded.) He also comes with a 5+ save and can take a number of vicious items to increase his damage potential. A great weapon will make him S7 which means he mince our slow chariots and striking last won't matter much as he is only I3. Taking the Charm will leave him with only 30 points to spend on items but that doesn't mean the ones he can take are by any means bad. The Maiming shield will add +1A on top of acting as a normal shield and the sword of the Hornet will suddenly mean that pathetic I doesn't matter as he will always strike first. Finally he has acess to 2 Blessed Spawnings which are likley to be Sotek and either Tepok (+1 dispel dice for the army) or Quetzl (+1 armour save.) This last one combined with light armour and the Maiming Shield will give him a 2+ armour save and if he has Sotek and the Maiming Shield he will have 6 strength 5 attacks on the charge! This guy fully equipped will come in at the region of around 170 points and can pose a very fast threat!

So how can we combat him? Dominion will obviously help restricting his movement which is one of his strong points. Putting your Sorceresses on Cold Ones won't save them this time. Black Horror also won't do much good as he has S5! RBTs may be able to take him out but there are other units they should be targetting. A possibility is to design a Noble for specifially taking him out. A noble with HA, SDC, Dark Steed and GW will be hitting on 3's and wounding on 2's. If the JSoD also has a GW you won't have to worry about striking last. Also the Dark Steed will hopefully ensure you get the charge.


Wed Jan 14, 2004 10:42 pm
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Ash010110 wrote:
I figured a few focused sentences for each opposing troop type would be in order.

How to deal with. . .

SKINKS
I have found that the most efficient way to eradicate these pests is to charge them with dark riders. The range of our charge is greater than their blowguns and javelins so the the only casualties that will be taken are the stand & fire ones. This has the added benefit of allowing you to overrun even deeper into the LM backfield b/c most LM players do not choose to flee.

Another thing to keep in mind is their scouting ability. Deploy intelligently. Identify the real estate where they could possibly go. If it is in your DZ, deploy something fast near it so they cannot be both out of sight and 10" away from you. If you cover these scouting sites, they cannot scout. In the case of chameleon skinks, interspread skirmishers, riders, and other 360 LOS troops so that he has to deploy in your LOS. If this happens, the chameleons have to stay at least 8"-12" away (I cannot remember which). The idea is that you do NOT want them to find a place where no one can see them, b/c then they can deploy as close as they want, march blocking you, and hurting your game plan. If everyone can see them, they'll have to keep their distance. It also helps to have a designated 'skink-killer' centered on your table EDGE. He should have decent armor save to survive the volley of darts. The idea is that he acts as Johnny-on-the-Spot when the chameleons appear. His job is to kill them (or at least chase them out of your zone). That way, the rest of your troops can focus on the army and not some pint-sized commandos.

SAURUS
Shoot them with regular RXBs. They have the low armor of Orcs, but without the overwhelming numbers. My two units of 10 shooters consistently takes off a rank and a half on average. RBTs I have less experience with so I do not know if it is better to aim at the bigger stuff or support the small-arms fire.

In addition to shooting them, they are horrendously slow. Once march-blocking has been put into effect, it should be a trivial task to flank charge them. As a warning, do NOT flank charge them with dark riders unless you go in outnumbering them. They are very resilient, and the extra attack back at you will usually cancel any bonus you accrued. A ranked up unit is necessary as the wounds you can expect to inflict with execs, spears, corsairs, and blackguard are in the 1-3 range. Of course, witch elves and cold one knights/chariots will do more than this.

TEMPLE GUARD
Shoot them. These are very expensive models, so rarely do you see more than 16 in an army. If there are more than that, then ignore the unit and kill everything else. If less, you CAN shoot each and every last one of the buggers in 4-5 turns. Remember to concentrate fire and march-block.

KROXIGORS
Bait and switch. Send a scrubby unit of spears to accept their charge and redirect to expose a flank. Do not use riders for this task as you need their speed elsewhere. Also, the regular naked spearelves can hold up and even win against the skink screen if he does not fall for your trap. When the kroxigors are finished with the 70-90pt spear unit, you simply counter-charge the flank with something that has 2 ranks and a banner. Even a spear unit on the flank will send them packing. If you throw a noble/highborn in to ensure no return attacks, then you are home free. Under no circumstances should you charge these things from the front.

SAURUS CAVALRY
See Kroxigors.

TERRADONS
These are tricky, and the answer to them really depends on the player who uses them. Lots of ppl seem to think they are SuperMen. . . they are not. I've yet to see them win a round of combat against my Drow. The trick it seems is to ensure they have no charges on weak flanks or lone characters. Once they get into combat, they usually die or rout. A more intelligent player will bide his time and use them just to march-block or go after war machines. If you pack RBTs, these are good first targets b/c you MUST dominate the movement phase (and losing the expensive, well crafted machine to a flock of scaly birds is embarrassing). Also, the first volley hits them on 5's and the second volley hits them on 4's. Since they only have T2, you wound on 2's and that should see them off. Magic missiles also do wonders, even the S3 one.

STEGADON
These are not as bad as I initially thought. A fully ranked unit of spear elves (16 w/o shields) survived the charge of this thing and beat it each and every round of combat. It finally broke after 3 rounds. Since this is the extent of my experience with it, I am hesitant to advise everyone else to do the same. I do believe, however, that RBT shots against this thing is not worth it. Our weapon skill is a great advantage as half of its and the skinks attacks will miss. If you go in with +5 CR (or +6 if you can score a flank charge), it will rarely dig itself out of the hole. Also remember that it is stubborn so you only need to beat it by one. Overkilling it by slaughtering the skinks gives a pleasant feeling, but it is not a good use for our precious combat-swinging characters.

SALAMANDER
These are the banes of my Drow existance. Moving and shooting w/ autohitting artillery dice = Upset Ash. Anyway, this is RBT fodder. Be very careful with your riders around this thing b/c they will die fast to a pair of the bloody beasts. I've killed it with magic missiles (Grog had good luck with RBTs) and with surprise charges from shades or riders. These last two charges were b/c I positioned my stuff in such a way that my foe didn't realize I could see him. Dumb luck on my part and poor playing on my opponent's part; therefore, I advise magic and artillery first. The second way that might work is to charge some skinks that can overrun into the salamanders. LM players are sometimes sloppy b/c the army is so forgiving of mistakes; if you see a charge that can overrun into them, TAKE IT.

CARNOSAUR
Since I don't take RBTs, I just avoid it. Since it doesn't fly, it can be march-blocked to 7" per turn. Also, it cannot fly over intervening troops. Those who take RBTs and chariots say they have decent luck with killing the carnosaur with them. . . unfortunately, the Oldblood tends to kill the chariot that bashed his pet, and the RBT is not effective once the guy isn't on a large monster. I do not recommend sending a unit at it; it'll just kill them. A highborn on a monster might do the trick (especially dragon), but since I've never tested this, I do not know how effective it is.

SKINK PRIESTS
Hunt them down. I know that heavens mages don't need LOS, but terrain will not always be in the favorable for hiding. Charge characters out of units, shoot them with riders, take a dark pegasus, but kill them ASAP or they'll attrite your army down. I do not recommend assassins b/c they cannot defend themselves from his spells, and you need to save your dispels for your units. Shades work really well at flushing the guys out of the hidden real estate.

SLANN
I usually ignore them. They are worth shooting at if they don't have the 2+ ward save. Also, at 2nd gen, the rest of the army is just too small to give you any trouble. You can dance around them all day and kill them off easily. I have yet to see a game (either mine, or Grog's or anyone else) where a 2nd Generation slann army actually won. They've all been ties or losses. The trick was to kill the priests early so Mr. Big doesn't have so many dice to work with. Also, most ppl fail their stupidity test when they take the slann's spells so I really don't fear them at all.

So there you go! I hope I was not too redundant.

May peace be with you,
Ash


Fri Jan 30, 2004 5:08 pm
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Watch this space

I have some more good advice due to be posted shortly, including a three piece article by Jeff Leong!


Wed Feb 18, 2004 3:40 pm
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