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Archaon vs. Valten: still possible? 
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Black Guard
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Though the Storm of Chaos is ending, the city may still be destroyed. On the latest update, Gav mentions a Skaven weapon that has been placed underneath the city called the Doom Hemisphere. From the description, it sounds like a Warpstone-based bomb, much like the bomb used in The Two Towers to breach the wall at Helmsdeep, though probably a LOT more powerful.

So time to put on your thinking caps. What consequences (if any) will there be if the Skaven detonate this weapon underneath the city? From the fluff, Archaon isn't in a position to capitalize on something like this, as his army is melting away one warband at a time.

I find it odd that Valten and Karl Franz didn't get involved in the fight, and instead spent the entire campaign trying to reach the battle. Personally, I think that the Skaven will breach the walls, and Archaon will turn back (possibly alone) to destroy the flame of Ulric. Only a timely intervention by Valten (maybe with a heroic challenge thrown in?) will be able to stop Archaon.

The visual possibilities of the fight between Archaon and Valten in front of the Flame would be incredible. Double or nothing, winner take all.

That would be a great ending. Anyone else?

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Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:51 am
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Black Guard
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Honestly, at this point, i just don't care anymore.


Wed Sep 01, 2004 6:40 am
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with the siege already over, i don't think that is particularly likely, and let's not forget that archaon must now face the fury of the chaos gods, as if a champion fails his god(s) then the punishment is mutation, madness and te like.

in other words, i don't think, after failing, archaon will be allowed the pleasure of becoming a god himself, for he must now suffer the consequences of failure.

very nice idea, though and might be cool if it happened.

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Wed Sep 01, 2004 6:48 am
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Blackfel wrote:
Only a timely intervention by Valten (maybe with a heroic challenge thrown in?) will be able to stop Archaon.

The visual possibilities of the fight between Archaon and Valten in front of the Flame would be incredible. Double or nothing, winner take all.

That would be a great ending. Anyone else?


What about grimgor, can't he do something. I'd love he would kill archaon.

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Wed Sep 01, 2004 7:14 am
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If Archaon and Valten should fight Archaon would get the upper hand and wound Valten and then Grimgor will arrive and start to fight Archaon. But the Empire army will drive both of them away, and then...... THE END.


Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:55 am
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Things I want to see
Grimgor V Archaon
Valten V Archaon
Volkamr V Belakor (or Archaon)
Boris V Kazrak
and possibly Borgut V Strykaar

In the journal it has mentioned that Archaon declared he was going to kill Valten, Sigmar reborn instead of Sigmars god. So that seems likely enough.
I have also heard that Volkmar will be fighting Belakor or Archaon. Other then that I can only hope.


Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:29 am
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I've had my fill of Archaon, the 'Lord of the End Times' couldn't even get inside Middenheim, he burned about three unfortified provinces, got soundly thrashed and ran home to the Chaos Wastes.

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Wed Sep 01, 2004 2:32 pm
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Personally I believe that after this pittefull 'incursion of chaos' the Chaos wastes should retread further the were they started.

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Wed Sep 01, 2004 2:37 pm
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Dekhalan wrote:
I've had my fill of Archaon, the 'Lord of the End Times' couldn't even get inside Middenheim, he burned about three unfortified provinces, got soundly thrashed and ran home to the Chaos Wastes.


*giggles* i am with you! i am soooo sick of the whole chaos thing. if someone brings another chaos army to do battle with i will scream!

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Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:33 pm
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I'd love to catch that on camera!

Yeah, I was dissapointed Chaos didnt do squat in SoC too, but I dont hate chaos. Well, I dont hate Nurgle anyway, not too fond of those other guys though.

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Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:55 pm
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IMHO what would be a good story line: Archaon would go to madness (although not extremly madness like other fallen champions, as he is to tough for the chaos gods to simply dismiss. The forces of chaos go back to the north, and then it is finally time for the build of PAY BACK, The orcs will fallow after Archaon in search of a challange, grimgor wants to fight him, Valten wil also start a quest to kill archaon so he and some forces of good go on a quest to make sure chaos will think twice before coming down and fight the empire. In the end of the campaign, Archaon gets a change to redeem himself in the eyes of the gods as he fights valten in a great duel.

I would like to see such a thing as a campaign (and as a subcampaign, Lord mazdamundi and other old slanns start turning the land of naggaroth into a more jungle enviroment and they start for the hunt back of some treasure's, Lord Mazdamundi will then show the druchii what real power is)


Wed Sep 01, 2004 4:00 pm
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i'm with you frogboy, Lizards vs elfs make great battle reports

(if you don't believe me, check out the battle report section ;)

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Wed Sep 01, 2004 4:06 pm
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great scenario blackfel. sounds like something that could actually happen! and i would love to see it happen :D

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Wed Sep 01, 2004 4:10 pm
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Those bomb under Midecheim look like <4me> like atom bomb ^^ , and There will be big battle reaport included Last battle with Archaon, Valten and all others special heroes so we must wait to realy end of this war, because nothing is sure yet :) only 1 special character die in storm so I think that's not enught.

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Wed Sep 01, 2004 4:59 pm
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Look, our part's over now, but from what the fluff says, it looks like Games Workshop have got some work to do. Valten clearly hadn't arrived, and we know Skaven weren't to be trusted from the start, they've been waiting to capiltalize on something like this for ages. If this bomb goes off, Archaon will probably get word from his last few forces at Middenheim, then suddenly he will go for one final attack to try and get the flame. In the process, he'll meet the armies of Valten and the final battle will ensue, then we'll find out if Archaon does manage to succeed or not.


Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:36 pm
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i'm not really worrying about the SoC anymore. but just reading your imput about the final One on One duels I had a picture this might happen.

Archeon would turn up at the Flame of Ulric, then Valten would show up, then they would be fighting, then Grimgore would show up and it would be a three way fight. this fight would be furious and deadly with the 3 champions meer blurs of awsome sword-play then *BLAM* the Doom Hemisphere would go off, blowing all three of them up, destroying the Flame of Ulric and killing a load of Skaven.


Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:12 pm
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i'd rather see Archaon making a final show down in Middenheim, managing somehow to go close to Ulric's temple. then Grimgor appears from nowhere and the Lord of the End of Time has to kill the migthy orc to get the Flame.

Good fight, but as always Archaon'll win... when he will reach Ulric's Flame, Valten will show up from nowhere ( one more time... ) and push back Archaon...

after a long long fight, nearly dead by both exaution and his wounds Archaon will tempt his last chance to obtain the Flame but Valten will throw him self in it, disparreaing Sigmar and Ulric know where while the Flame extinguish...

the Skaven's nuke will blow the temple up a few seconds after, and nobody will find Archaon anymore...
but guess what ? he'll survive, just like Cypher manage to in W40k

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Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:09 pm
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I wouldn't be surprised if Archaon throws his last dice and takes the leftovers of his crazed followers to go after Valten LOTR last charge of Helm's Deep style. I dunno if they will destroy the flame of Ulric, but im not up to date on it, does the flame the imbodiment of Ulric as a god? Otherwise he will live on in the spirits of the warrior priests. Certainly better stuff than the lore so far...


Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:41 pm
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folks lets take a look at what u are saying here.

Grimgor vs. Archaon...hmm
Grimgor got his ass whopped by Crom-Archaon's lackey-then Crom got his ass handed to him by Archaon. Now for those of u out there who forgot a basic geometry principle-the transitive property-let me refresh your minds. if a > b and b > c, we then can conclude that a > c. therefore archaon will kill grimgor


Thu Sep 02, 2004 12:50 am
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Heir2thethrone

You should go and read your fluff again. Grimgor did not get his ass whopped by Crom. It was actually Crom who stepped back from the fight to allow Grimgor to see that his army had been broken (Damn Goblins!!) Grimgor was more then willing to continue fighting.

Crom looses to Archaon
Crom and Grimgor Draw (we will never know who would have won)
Archaon vs Grimgor even odds, I will give you a slight edge to Archaon but now that he failed to reached Middenheim his Gods might just take away some of his fancy toys.

On the topic of the Skaven Bomb. How about Archaon kills Valtan in the Temple and steps into the flames of Ulric and extinguishes them. As he steps out the Skaven Bomb explodes destroying the temple and Archaon but later in the rubble the Priets of Ulric discover that the flames had been re-ignited by the Skaven device.

Ashork of Da-Warpath


Thu Sep 02, 2004 3:21 am
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well, i personally am quite dissapointed that archaon and his lackeys couldnt take middenheim; any dark elf general would have done it with half the soldiers and without having to get his (or hers) hands dirty ;) i think that our sub-campaign should form the basis for a larger campaign involving us and ulthuan, in the form of us gettin so cocky about our treasures from lustria that we go into ulthuan to get back Tor Anlec or something small like that, so it doesnt have to wipe out the high elves.

and another thing, im actualli hopin that archaon gets his @$$ whooped by either grimgor or valten, i really dont mind which one. it has been proven that archaon does not have the cranial capacity to even hold his own sword straight ( i mean honestly, name one other general that would have lost with an cohort of Hell cannons...?), so reading about him gettin slaughtered would be great!

Phoenix14

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Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:17 am
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Quote:
Grimgor got his ass whopped by Crom-Archaon's lackey-then Crom got his ass handed to him by Archaon.

Ashork is right about this. The fight could of one either way if the ret of Grimgors army hadn't legged it. Acrhaon V Crom happened way before Grimgor V Crom.

If Archaon does step into the flames or the flames are put out some other way, Ulric dies and the Empire is subjected to eternal winter. I don't think that can happen. I just bought my selve a whole load of Ulric Priests!

Heres my thoughts on it: Archaon see's Valten and Co coming, issues his challenge and faces off against him outside Middenheim, not caring weather he lives or dies as he has failed his gods.

Meanwhile, Belakor remembers he can fly, goes into Middenheim, Volkmar steps up. They keep fighting in a gatehouse or something similar when the bomb goes off. Belakor trys to flee, Volkmar stops him sacrificing himselve to kill him.


Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:17 am
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This might be a little of topic but what happened to the armies of the undead? is it possible that we will see Manfred von Carstein in a duel or is his army powerful enough to challenges valtens army?


Thu Sep 02, 2004 2:42 pm
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Lord Mordaine wrote:
This might be a little of topic but what happened to the armies of the undead? is it possible that we will see Manfred von Carstein in a duel or is his army powerful enough to challenges valtens army?


the undead armie's of von carstein are not really into any challange's for some one. They have fought on the side of the empire in this campaign (well mostly just for themselfs). As to archaon, he doesn't see the difference between the empire and the realm of sylvania, so if he enters their land, no way Manfredd will let him just walk over. They will fight them. So they where called to fight and have fought against the armies of chaos, orcs and whichever army that tried to enter their lands.


Thu Sep 02, 2004 7:23 pm
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We last heard that a large army of undead where marching towards Middenheim. He has probably killed (and re-animated) all the marauders he came near and now see's the Empire ready to be taken (as it is).

They are marching by day and night and were about a week behind the relief force. It could be they will just join in the final battle at Middenheim. Maybe even resurect a fallen character (that would piss Volkmar off no end).


Fri Sep 03, 2004 9:35 am
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