Logo
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:07 am



This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 91 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
MSU / MSE - some observations and game experiences 
Author Message
Morathi's Favoured
Morathi's Favoured

Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 1:29 pm
Posts: 9728
Location: In the paintshop
Reply with quote
This is my take on the whole MSU/MSE issue and following that I would like to share some experiences with you which you may find interesting.

From the various posts made over the last few weeks or so it is apparent that a number of you have been playing a variation of this idea for anything up to 12 months or so now. Many with extreme success. For the newbies around here I would like to offer my version.
Malakithau's original idea was that for Elves in particular, all models behind the fighting line were pretty much redundant and that increasing the number of attacking models at any one time in a combat was more important, and more likely to help us succeed and thus win the combat. In order to maximise these numbers of attacks we should take smaller units thus allowing even greater movement opportunities on the battlefield, which in turn increases the number of opportunities to effect flank charges to support units engaging the enemy to the front.

A basic tactic we all know but which can be difficult to achieve in reality due to unit size as well as terrain etc.

Add to this principle the idea of cheap 'bait' units, made even more feasible by the Revision, and you increase your movement opportunities even further. How? Simply by marching your cheap little unit right up close and personal and invite your opponent to come to the party!

MSU needs a further principle too - the 'Knockout Punch' or Hammer or whatever other name you wish to use. But basically it is not enough to pull your opponent all over the board, set traps and run rings around him. Sooner or later you have to kill him and this needs to be done swiftly and convincingly. This area is very much down to personal taste in my opinion and may take the form of a Highborn carrying the Gauntlet riding a Manticore, or a couple of Chariots led by a Noble with a gw or a lance, or maybe a unit of Executioners with a banner and a champion. Whatever form it takes you need to have a clear vision in your mind ahead of the battle exactly how you intend to bring that 'hammer' down. Where is not as important as that is usually determined by your opponent and how he deploys his units. Nontheless your plan needs to have taken effect, in your mind, ahead of the battle.

The last principle is to have a back up plan. Look at every eventuality when you construct the MSU list and try to consider what to do if your initial plan goes wrong. What will you do if the Executioners die? How will the other units in your list combine together to make up for their loss? If they can't then I strongly recommend you reconsider your army composition.

MSU or MSE? Multiple Small Units or Multiple Small Elites? The basic principle of this tactic gives you further options and choices here and there are definite cases for both lists depending upon your opponent. MSU is better for Hordes as the low cost units allows for a greater number to be fielded while still reaping the benefit of our better stat line. MSE is ideal for other Elves and specialist Elite armies where we need a little 'extra' to counter their better stat line. I strongly believe that the MSE units benefit very well from the Bait and Flee tactic, drawing our enemies to open their flanks wherever possible.

MSU/MSE in conjunction with other established tactics. I feel that both types of lists have gained enough merit to be viable enhancements to a whole range of other tactics. In larger games in particular, MSU could enhance the benefits of a Cavalry army by being the bait for example, and MSE can enhance ranked Infantry lists as the flanking threats.

What do I feel is the best thing about all this? Simple, the fact that it has caused us all to rethink our view of the Dark Elf army and the way in which it fights / can fight or should fight. It has encouraged many of us to look again at what we do and to think'outside the box'. All very positive things and whether you choose to try the tactic or not we are all very much aware of it.

Some experiences and actual gaming observations. I have found the success or failure of this principle is very much determined by two very important factors - Deployment and Movement - both very closely linked together.

I have disovered that in order to make this work, and maintain your movement advantage the units must be very carefully deployed. If you notice how Dwarf players and Skaven players line up their fully ranked units, close together with the intention of presenting a mass block of troops - I have found this to be very prohibitive. This is because our units are much smaller and very often with wider frontages ( 6 or 7 models wide ) and to win most combats we need to put multiple units into the same combat. In order to achieve this you need the space on the battlefield. However, this does need to be balanced against the necessity for terrain protection from enemy missile fire, so again balance is needed.

I have had two particularly difficult games with this and both were when I deployed the units very tightly together. I found that I did not have sufficient movement opportunities to benefit from the tactic.

Deployment and Movement are unavoidably linked so as the game unfolds watch how the enemy are deploying and ensure that you maintain the movement opportunities you will need to get the necessary charges in. In the past I have utilised the Hard Punch in one area tactic very well with my cavalry army but with MSU it is better if you spread yourself out more, especially against an army that is going to come at you very quickly - Bretonnians, High Elf Cavalry, Skaven for example. This has a multitude of benefits in that it mitigates panic somewhat, the enemy have limited options in that they should not be able to roll along a flank very easily but you are putting them at risk to counter charges.

Another thing about movement, MSU by it's very nature of sheer number of units can be very forgiving of early losses in the game. I have had several games turn around in the end 3 turns due simply to the greater number of units I have on the table. The enemy are just not able to kill them all and units such as Shades and Harpies are great for capturing ( or contesting ) table quarters.

The Cauldron. As I have said in previous posts the Cauldron of Blood is the perfect addition to any MSU list but an MSE in particular. Bearing in mind we are looking to maximise attacks it is only natural that we would look to maximise wounds too and there is no better way to do so.

Magic can be a liablity due to the small unit sizes but no more so than you probably experience anyway, particularly if you play Cavalry armies. Sorceresses can be used in the same way as you would normally but, if you consider the Revision change to Word of Pain, can be much more effective. Range is less of an issue because a lot of races will be coming towards you.

To summarise. Well I would like to think you can come to your own conclusions about these principles and whether they can work for you. Personally I like them a lot but they all need to be considered AND used in cohesion for the list to work. Both MSU and MSE need to be maximising on attacks and both need to maintain their movement opportunities.

I hope this has been and will be of some use.

Thanx for reading. :D


Last edited by Dark Alliance on Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Fri Jun 27, 2003 10:45 pm
Report this post
Profile
Malekith's Tastetester & Physician
Malekith's Tastetester & Physician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 9:41 pm
Posts: 5170
Location: Putting needles into people.
Reply with quote
Post 
This is one of the best articles in a while. Good stuff!

_________________
While running a million dollar company, singing at weddings, and his frequent jetting to Spain Elton Jon style, Dark Alliance found the time to stand on the doorstep of Games Workshop like Moses and the Pharoah and calmly state, "Let my people go."


Fri Jun 27, 2003 11:28 pm
Report this post
Profile
Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2003 10:49 am
Posts: 20
Reply with quote
Post 
I have a simple question: wouldn't regular regiments of post-revision spearmen work better than MSU or MSE? for less than 150 points you get a unit of 16 (no banner) which doesn't have attacks as strong as executioners or witch elves, but, when used in the hw/shield combat option, has better staying power and contributes a full rank bonus? I mean, considering their cost, you could practically build an "horde" army of these units. 8 will take up only 1200 points, leaving you 800 points for magic or RBT support and the so-called "hammer" you mentioned. (Like 2 RBT's, harpies and a dragon hammer).

_________________
I'm soooooooo eeeeeeevil


Sat Jun 28, 2003 1:08 am
Report this post
Profile
Shadowking
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:20 pm
Posts: 2375
Location: "View posts since last visit (147580)"
Reply with quote
Post 
DA, very interesting... but I can't really comment it, since I haven't played enough MSU/MSE games to have the experience neccecary (just 3-4).

Barbarossa, don't make the Dark Elves something they are not. Druchii is not a horde army. For 1200 points, I (being a Skaven player) can get 3 fully ranked, outnumbering units of Clanrats with Ratling Guns, 3 units of fully ranked and outnumbering Slaves, Rat Swarms, Rat Ogres ect ect.... so IMO, an army of 16 man spearmen units is a very bad idea.

_________________
Regards, A.A.

"Epic Krueger the Mousefrightened was a trap, to see whether we'd generalize. Lose faith. Whine. Die inside.

And when the light seemed darkest... we get the visual equivalent of the opening lick from Thunderstruck."


Sat Jun 28, 2003 2:46 pm
Report this post
Profile
Malekith's Tastetester & Physician
Malekith's Tastetester & Physician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 9:41 pm
Posts: 5170
Location: Putting needles into people.
Reply with quote
Post 
Alith_Anar wrote:
[b]so IMO, an army of 16 man spearmen units is a very bad idea.



Agree completely. This 16 man unit idea is from Baron de Sade and it is a waste of points. Buying 10 man units and having more of them is the way to win...

_________________
While running a million dollar company, singing at weddings, and his frequent jetting to Spain Elton Jon style, Dark Alliance found the time to stand on the doorstep of Games Workshop like Moses and the Pharoah and calmly state, "Let my people go."


Sat Jun 28, 2003 5:22 pm
Report this post
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 3:08 pm
Posts: 1290
Reply with quote
Post 
Do you think that the MSU/MSE tactics would be suicide up against an army with a lot of RBT's, magic and cavalry? Like High Elves.


Sun Jun 29, 2003 12:56 pm
Report this post
Profile
Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2003 10:49 am
Posts: 20
Reply with quote
Post 
Alith_Anar wrote:
Barbarossa, don't make the Dark Elves something they are not. Druchii is not a horde army. For 1200 points, I (being a Skaven player) can get 3 fully ranked, outnumbering units of Clanrats with Ratling Guns, 3 units of fully ranked and outnumbering Slaves, Rat Swarms, Rat Ogres ect ect.... so IMO, an army of 16 man spearmen units is a very bad idea.


First of all, MSU gets you lots of small units. I was just wondering whether it would not actually be better to have lots of small units which are more manouverable due to a smaller frontage and have a full rank bonus to boot.

Second, skaven clanrats are 5 points a piece, 6 if you take spears. New warriors are 7 points a piece, 8 if you take shields. So a two point difference - and you do get superior infantry, which is much more likely to rally after fleeing, has a good WS and initiative... I can imagine a "horde" Dark Elf army based on zounds of warriors. And while we do not have ratling guns, we can take 2 RBT's as a reasonable alternative to 3 rat weapon teams, cold one chariots as an alternative to rat ogre units... We don't have swarms, but have good fast cavalry as an alternative. I don't claim that DE could make a better horde army than Skaven do, I'm just saying it's not as bad an idea as you suggest.

_________________
I'm soooooooo eeeeeeevil


Sun Jun 29, 2003 3:50 pm
Report this post
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 9:27 pm
Posts: 1336
Reply with quote
Post 
I just want to through in that I think all the conversations about MSU and associated topics have really made more people get into the right frame of battle for their army. I think it is very positive.

MAybe a good idea would be to place test a traditional style rank and file DE army agianst an MSU and see what happens.


Sun Jun 29, 2003 4:17 pm
Report this post
Profile
Highborn
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2002 1:46 am
Posts: 686
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Reply with quote
Post 
Very good article DA!

I would even say "Kudos to you for writting it" ;)

_________________
"Prick your finger it is done
the moon has now eclypsed the sun
an angel has spread his wings
the time has come for bitter things"
-M.M


Mon Jun 30, 2003 7:06 am
Report this post
Profile
Malekith's Personal Guard
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 12:17 am
Posts: 899
Location: Seattle, WA
Reply with quote
Post 
Just a quick question from a newbie. The standard bait unit of 10 warriors costs 70 points and has no purpose other than to die. A unit of 5 DR costs 90 points, but can do so much more than the warriors. I'm a little confused on how the small ten man elite units are better also. 5 DR are cheaper than a unit of exe, faster, and much more manueverable. The exe do hit harder (especially against armor) and look sooo much cooler, but is it really worth it? I guess I'm just wondering what the advantage of small units of infantry is over small units of calvary. MSU/MSE seems like it is great for dealing with hordes and elite infantry, but I don't see how it would stand a chance against multiple small units of calvary (as all except fear causing should be used).

_________________
We've all begun to die, and don't know what to do.
Since it hurts to pray to God, when God is dying too.
Takes strength to laugh, when you start to drown.
And we dance while the sky crashes down.

-Jason Webley


Mon Jun 30, 2003 7:21 am
Report this post
Profile
Malekith's Personal Guard
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2002 2:06 pm
Posts: 975
Location: Locked in a bunker with only a HE player for company
Reply with quote
Post 
Nice post DA!

To make a few comments the advantages of small infantry units over cavalry ones

1. 4 units of 12 warriors in the UK will cost £45 for which you can buy a mere 11 DR models or 2 units so financially the warriors are good news (Prices are GW :? ).

2. The cavalry units contain fewer models and thus are much easier to panic either by magic or missile fire 5 models vs 10-12.

3. The points drain is much greater for every DR you loose 18pts for every warrior 7-11pts It requires your warriors to be killed at a rate of 2:1 vs DR to make the points drain uneconomic. Unless you face lots of black powder weapons this won't happen as both have the same save vs missile fire and the warriors can be more durable in hth (4+ with hw+sh vs 5+ for a DR).

Tactiaclly both have there uses in a game so a balance of the two unit types is what you really want having just one or the other is not the optimal solution unless you are going for an all cavalry army.


MSU vs Conventional Druchii

I'm actually going to play agame like this tommorow evening to see what happens so will post the observations back here Wednesday.

Frontage

The principle of MSU/MSE works because it maximises unit frontage to negate unit depth excluding all other factors ie flanks etc..

If you take deep narrow units you will at best manage 5 attacks this means vs an average opponent you might kill 1 of their front rank which means they hit back 4 times killing 1 of yours inevitably means you will at best win by the odd model and often will loose especially if outnumbered. With a wide frontage (I actually prefer 7 but most people use 6) you can get upto 8 attacks vs a 5 wide unit this typically kills 2 leaving only 3 to fight back probably killing no one net result the wider unit has negated the extra 2 ranks by doing nothing more complex than having the right number of models in the front rank.

Taking this on its own you still loose the combat but when you combine it with a flank attack which is the genreal objective with any combat strategy you will end up with a 6+ point swing in combat resolution vs a more usual 4 point swing in the same circumstances. Before you add in any extra damage from the flanking unit. This will reduce your opponents chance of holding his defeated unit to almost zero as most armies will be looking at break tests on a 3 at best!

Yep you could have a unit of 28 warriors 7X4 and achived the same results but 2 units of 12 are more flexible for the same points and when used to gether far more effective. Also if one dies so what yuou still have the other with a single big block if you loose its game over as DA points out the number of units available to you with an MSU style army can more than compensatefor the loss of a few of them when compared to the traditional block army where every unit is of importance.

To show this works it is exactlly what I did vs a chaos lord and his chosen retinue (5x4 undivided) at the GT final. They plowed straight through my warrior (rxb) screen topwards my general in a unit of corsairs (7x2). Where I combined a charge from the 7 man wide corsair unit (+1 ranks) with a noble supported a unit of 5 DRs in the flank. The corsairs managed to kill 1 warrior and the DR's 2 my noble challenged the lord inflicting 1 wound each. In return I lost 4 corsairs. I won the combat by partly due to my flank attack negating his 3 ranks and partly due to the fact I had more attacks - 26 vs 14!

If I had used a traditional narrow fronted unit I would have lost this combat before it would have started, to be quite honest I wouldn't even have attempted to pull this off. I'd have got out of their way!

Narrow fronts have their uses but if you want to be agressive in the true Druchii style then the aim is to quickly and decisively win combats. You have to kill the enemy to do that you need as many attacks as possible not as many ranks.

Its better to loose a small cheap unit to give you better tabletop position than to get involved in a long slog the last thing any elven general wants is their comparatively expensive basic troops stuck in a long protacted fight which they are most likely to loose. This is what MSU/MSE can offer its not the only tactical option but it is one.

_________________
Life is short, death last for ever like a journey on British public transport!


Mon Jun 30, 2003 9:25 am
Report this post
Profile WWW
Shadowking
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:20 pm
Posts: 2375
Location: "View posts since last visit (147580)"
Reply with quote
Post 
Barbarossa wrote:
First of all, MSU gets you lots of small units. I was just wondering whether it would not actually be better to have lots of small units which are more manouverable due to a smaller frontage and have a full rank bonus to boot.

Well, one of the basic ideas of MSU is to maximize attacks instead of ranks, since MSU is based on the phisosophy (sp?) that using 8+ pts elves to gain ranks is not cost effective when other races can get the same effect much cheaper.
And as far as manouverability goes, well, that depends on the situation. Sure, your front is 2 bases smaller than the average MSU unit, but your flank is 2-3 bases wider.

Barbarossa wrote:
Second, skaven clanrats are 5 points a piece, 6 if you take spears. New warriors are 7 points a piece, 8 if you take shields. So a two point difference - and you do get superior infantry, which is much more likely to rally after fleeing, has a good WS and initiative... I can imagine a "horde" Dark Elf army based on zounds of warriors. And while we do not have ratling guns, we can take 2 RBT's as a reasonable alternative to 3 rat weapon teams, cold one chariots as an alternative to rat ogre units... We don't have swarms, but have good fast cavalry as an alternative.

True, true. But all that would end up being more expensive than its Skaven equivelant, yet not by any means harder (most of the time, of course, since it depends on the situation). Most Skaven units will easily fight off 16 Spearmen through ranks ect. Even Slaves can hold their own for a turn or 2 against such an attack with the general/BSB nearby (and he will be nearby).

Barbarossa wrote:
I don't claim that DE could make a better horde army than Skaven do, I'm just saying it's not as bad an idea as you suggest.

If you cannot make a good horde with Dark Elves, then why bother? Why try to play the Druchii army in a way that suits other races better, instead of capitalizing on the things that Druchii can, but other races can't do/have?

But I reckon that the 16 man Spear units you speak of could successfully be incorporated in an MSU army together with the customary 10 man units to provide ranks and perhaps outnumbering, and let the smaller units provide the flanking and kills.

_________________
Regards, A.A.

"Epic Krueger the Mousefrightened was a trap, to see whether we'd generalize. Lose faith. Whine. Die inside.

And when the light seemed darkest... we get the visual equivalent of the opening lick from Thunderstruck."


Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:00 am
Report this post
Profile
Highborn
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 2:31 am
Posts: 767
Location: somewhere
Reply with quote
Post 
Quote:
If you cannot make a good horde with Dark Elves, then why bother? Why try to play the Druchii army in a way that suits other races better, instead of capitalizing on the things that Druchii can, but other races can't do/have?


I definately agree!

_________________
15 Orc Boar Boyz: 270
Full Command: 38
Warbanner: 25
Realising they still can't kill Chaos Knights: Priceless

There are some things points can't do, for everything else there's Chaos...


Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:31 pm
Report this post
Profile ICQ WWW
Highborn
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 2:31 am
Posts: 767
Location: somewhere
Reply with quote
Post 
500th post! :mrgreen:

_________________
15 Orc Boar Boyz: 270
Full Command: 38
Warbanner: 25
Realising they still can't kill Chaos Knights: Priceless

There are some things points can't do, for everything else there's Chaos...


Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:31 pm
Report this post
Profile ICQ WWW
The Aspect of Murder
The Aspect of Murder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2002 7:07 pm
Posts: 4646
Location: Los Angeles
Reply with quote
Post 
As always DA, this was excellent.

_________________
3 bots slain in Khaine's name.


Mon Jun 30, 2003 2:33 pm
Report this post
Profile
The Aspect of Murder
The Aspect of Murder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2002 7:07 pm
Posts: 4646
Location: Los Angeles
Reply with quote
Post 
Orteo wrote:
Just a quick question from a newbie. The standard bait unit of 10 warriors costs 70 points and has no purpose other than to die.


Not necessarily. The bait unit I use is 85pts with Banner + Musician. The Musician I feel is mandatory, because the unit will be fleeing so often that the extra rally is helpful. The Banner I like to use as well because there are times when I might make this unit fight in conjunction with Dark Riders, Shades, etc. In these situations, the extra CR is helpful.

There is a good chance the bait Spearmen will die, but it is hardly their only purpose. Don't use them as if they will die, but don't be afraid to sacrafice them either.

_________________
3 bots slain in Khaine's name.


Mon Jun 30, 2003 2:38 pm
Report this post
Profile
The Aspect of Murder
The Aspect of Murder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2002 7:07 pm
Posts: 4646
Location: Los Angeles
Reply with quote
Post 
Keledron wrote:
MSU vs Conventional Druchii

I'm actually going to play agame like this tommorow evening to see what happens so will post the observations back here Wednesday.


I look forward to it. I plan to do the same this week if I can. Personally, I think MSU will slaughter standard Dark Elves...

_________________
3 bots slain in Khaine's name.


Mon Jun 30, 2003 2:41 pm
Report this post
Profile
Black Guard
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 4:07 pm
Posts: 278
Location: Italy / florence
Reply with quote
Post 
great article... really... mobility and deployment... the 2 strong point to never forget on MSU/MSE tactics...

if you deploy wrong you are going to face a defeat.

Some consideration i see during my MSU matches:
I think one must decide before the deployment what units will coop togheter... dont place randomly ... try to place first the fast cavalry and if you have other high mobile (harpies?)
place them .. if you dont give your opponent any tricks on your deployment he will have to
decide where put is "MAIN" force...

after you can choose "what face with what", in ex. if he place all his heavy cavalry on his
right you can place your "anti-tin-can" there on in the centre, if he place a horde of infantry
you can face them with witches and spears...

Dark raiders are really useful on MSU/MSE cause they can wing flank or feing flank and retreat with order giving you the time to attack where you want...

Long live druchii!


Mon Jun 30, 2003 2:50 pm
Report this post
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend

Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 8:12 am
Posts: 1294
Location: Umeå, Sweden
Reply with quote
Post 
I read on the GW page that sawyer wants more material sent in to them. If someone bothers wrapping MSU up nice (like above?) and back it up with some photos it could make a great article...

I admit i havent tried msu yet myself, but in theory its very limited to what kind of enemy youre playing... its probably good against chaos, OK against UD, hard against skavent and hopeless against Empire... Shooty enemies will cause you atleast 2-3 panictests per shootingphase and probably another during the magicphase.

However, i agree with previous posters that even if the tactic wouldnt work (im not saying it dont!) its good to make people start thinking in terms of alternate tactics and so on


Mon Jun 30, 2003 3:34 pm
Report this post
Profile
Black Guard
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 4:07 pm
Posts: 278
Location: Italy / florence
Reply with quote
Post 
on panic test:
with a highborn that reach 80% of your MSU unit you have to test at 10
without you have to test at 8

we are not goblin or skaven that have to fear every panic test... with 10 i can test at least with a really
good chance of passing on the test... and we have not to test each turn... MSU versus heavy fire need to close fast and so at turn 3 you have to be in closecombat... and better in turn 2 their warmachine have to be attacked (and you can really... 3 dark riders group and shades and harpies... :-) maybe a noble on pegasus..)
i said before (to Maelis) no tactics is perfect for all the opponent.. but you can adapt the situation and if you are able to close on where needed his warmachines will not deal death and awe on your units...


Mon Jun 30, 2003 3:41 pm
Report this post
Profile
Slave (off the Altar)
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 2:23 am
Posts: 18
Location: Santa Barbara CA
Reply with quote
Post 
I agree with sugacapra on this. High leadership and movement is what makes or brakes msu armies. Our basic movement is 5" as everyone knows and that really helps close the gap. I still have a little trouble dealing with war machines though. But then again Mr. Murphy always come a long for the ride. What can go wrong will go wrong ;) .

Durban

_________________
If you meet the Buddha on the road kill him!


Mon Jun 30, 2003 4:07 pm
Report this post
Profile
Black Guard
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 4:07 pm
Posts: 278
Location: Italy / florence
Reply with quote
Post 
yeah... shiz happen sometime... usually we fail the stupidity when we have this fabolous opportunity to flank charge, or we fail to rally the DR when they are in range of the general, or we strike with GoP and do only 1 and 2 on dices (happen all to me :-)) LOL ) but at the end i think that Murphy strike both the players.. and as i said time ago in italian we said "poggio e buca fa pari" (translated a hole and a hill make a plain) so probably
what we suffer most was some other error we do, but what we (and me as first person) think that ruins all our plan is maybe a unlucky dice roll .... mmmm... the romans used to say that "la fortuna aiuta gli audaci" and
"non c'e' nessun eroe vittorioso sfortunato" (translated "luck help the braves" and "there is no UNLUCKY victorius hero ") ...
:-)

apart this... we are not goblin, i repeat, with our glorious highborn we have ld10 and this is enough for most tests.. :-)


Mon Jun 30, 2003 4:17 pm
Report this post
Profile
The Aspect of Murder
The Aspect of Murder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2002 7:07 pm
Posts: 4646
Location: Los Angeles
Reply with quote
Post 
sugacapra wrote:
on panic test:
with a highborn that reach 80% of your MSU unit you have to test at 10
without you have to test at 8

we are not goblin or skaven that have to fear every panic test... with 10 i can test at least with a really
good chance of passing on the test... and we have not to test each turn... MSU versus heavy fire need to close fast and so at turn 3 you have to be in closecombat... and better in turn 2 their warmachine have to be attacked (and you can really... 3 dark riders group and shades and harpies... :-) maybe a noble on pegasus..)
i said before (to Maelis) no tactics is perfect for all the opponent.. but you can adapt the situation and if you are able to close on where needed his warmachines will not deal death and awe on your units...


I couldn't have said it better myself. MSU takes full advantage of Elven LD, and Panic tests really are not a big factor.

_________________
3 bots slain in Khaine's name.


Mon Jun 30, 2003 4:24 pm
Report this post
Profile
The Aspect of Murder
The Aspect of Murder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2002 7:07 pm
Posts: 4646
Location: Los Angeles
Reply with quote
Post 
Durban Poison wrote:
I still have a little trouble dealing with war machines though.


Harpies, Dark Riders, Shades, and RBT can all go a long way to solving these "problems".

_________________
3 bots slain in Khaine's name.


Mon Jun 30, 2003 4:27 pm
Report this post
Profile
Black Guard
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 4:07 pm
Posts: 278
Location: Italy / florence
Reply with quote
Post 
GrogsontPowwabomba : we think the same things many time when MSU come to talk :-))

does your shrine is near italy ? (so maybe one day we can our shake hands and cross our blades?)

;-)


Mon Jun 30, 2003 4:28 pm
Report this post
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.   [ 91 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software