Druchii Net Civil War

Post by **Langmann** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 6:11 pm

There are many members out there thirsting for blood. While the current SoC campaign does not allow for any civil war (there is only one bar, Lizards vs Dark Elves), some of us are thirsting for a civil war of our own!

I am now trying to organize a Druchii.net run campaign. A Civil War between the Cult of Pleasure and the Khainites (regular druchii). This campaign will mostly take place on Naggaroth BUT it will allow the incursion of other races in the warhammer world. For example, there are some worshippers of Slaanesh in the Empire, therefore they might be imported by the cult as mercenaries. Hence your Empire friends can play in the campaign. The High Elves will invade us when we are weak. Chaos will support the Cult. The Lizards, out for revenge, may actually ally with the Khainites against the Cult! The VC and the TK may be back to back with the practitioners of Dark Magic once again. Dwarves may crawl out of their holes and attack everyone to regain their lost clan-hold in Naggaroth.

We will have a battlefield map and it will be run in a smaller but similar fashion to the GW campaign. If I get enough interested people that is.

What I'd like the initiative to do is to design the campaign a bit. What I want is basically a campaign where it is decided if the Cult remains underground or if it is allowed to come out of the cold as it were, and be a part of Druchii society. I don't want the utter destruction of both sides in this campaign as it would be against the fluff.

Secondly I think it should be simple, no real complexities because I have only one or two people doing the statistics behind the scenes and it would get way to complex for them to handle. We all have other jobs, GW employees work on one thing.

So what I want is everyone who is interested to open their Dark Elf books to page 4 where the map of Nag is and think about possible places to choose as Battlesites and small strategic sites. Plus how the campaign battles might be interlinked.

Any ideas are welcome. Remember keep it simple though.

Anaryin · Post by **Anaryin** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 6:26 pm

Great, as I said in the mods forum

The problem langmann is that we're also devising a Black Ark List. But maybe we can do the two together..

So, guys, are we up to it? Basically, what Langmann wants is one thing like NIS, about the same grade of complexity.

I'll probably think a little in this today. I've finished my biology studies for the day so

Anaryin

Logan · Post by **Logan** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 6:43 pm

Its a bit above and beyound this forum - it needs a map on the website- and i dont think anyof us actually have editing rights to the site - plus, adding areas to report battles and stuff requires links and such... its a logisitcal nightmare... only the US GW has a strong enough web team to run the campaign websites - none of the others do it... they just use the US's experiance...

i dont think anyof us are actually capable of running a campaign of scale that would be satisfying -while an intriguing thought -scenarios and such are easy to do -but hosting a worldwide campaign is too big....

plus, everyone is caught up in the SoC for now - later, ppl will turn to the next worldwide campaign 040k or fantasy...

i just am doubtful wether we are capable -and really, wether it would be worth doing...

Post by **Langmann** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 6:46 pm

Which is why I want to keep it fairly simple. Also I will set up a separate website for it, unless Kitrik wants to allow me access to his server. After I get the pages running it shouldn't be that hard. Really we are smaller than the entire world so I think it would really come down to a few users actually playing.

Anaryin · Post by **Anaryin** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:14 pm

Where will you put the pages? Maybe The guys over the BF can help you with the "computurized" part of the thing.

Post by **Langmann** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:43 pm

I am making a freeserver host right now. Once I get it all coded I'll talk to Kitrik.

Anaryin · Post by **Anaryin** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:05 pm

great

My question was because of bandwidth problems

Dark harlequin · Post by **Dark harlequin** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:45 pm

Very nice idea, really!

Secondly I think it should be simple, no real complexities because I have only one or two people doing the statistics behind the scenes and it would get way to complex for them to handle.

Could you probably give us some more details what would be possible? Like can we handle statistics from a map based campaign. If you want non Druchii armies it might be difficult to create a linear campaign.

Nagathi · Post by **Nagathi** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:51 pm

I will read the reports and add the statistics for the place where the battle was fought. Simple. Several places are a must IMNSHO. The Cult outbreak will be different in different cities and places.

- Nag

Anaryin · Post by **Anaryin** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:27 pm

Hm hm.. so, we're having a Naggaroth based map? With the 7 major cities right?

I was planning a first common scenario in all cities (if the cities apply) then depending each city, a varied scenario, with variants depending on who lost and won. Dunno, this will be complicated to do, even if simple

Nagathi · Post by **Nagathi** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:47 pm

Doing seperate scenarios for each city seems like a complicated and unnecessary thing to do. The cities and thier surroundings doesn't differ that much so the battles would be that different.

- Nag

Ansob. · Post by **Ansob.** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 6:35 pm

I seriously think that this would be much better as a Mordheim/Skirmish campaign - gang wars of sorts. I doubt that Malekith could remain idle if an open war was declared between the ToK and the CoP - after all, who would he choose, his mother or Khaine? This would modify the fluff too heavily, in my humble opinion. Which is why I think that a "gang wars" in Naggarond (being the capital; though of course this could be adapted to take place in any other of our cities) would be ideal, with a storyline along the lines of Morathi having brought Chaos Slaanesh warriors, followers and daemons (etc.) within the city to secretely undermine Hellebron's influence, and Hellebron counter-attacking. We could have three sides: the Temple, the Cult and the militia - ToK armies, CoP armies and standard Druchii armies with no ToK units allowed (ToK fights CoP and the militia fights both, trying to reestablish order - of course, there is nothing that says that certain groups of the militia could not decide to support either faction, being Chaos-haters or somewhat Slaanesh-corrupted, etc. with all the crunchy subtle details that "real" politics include). What say you, people of the Convent?

Anaryin · Post by **Anaryin** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:04 pm

Doing seperate scenarios for each city seems like a complicated and unnecessary thing to do. The cities and thier surroundings doesn't differ that much so the battles would be that different.

- Nag

I see, however, cities like Ghrond and Naggarond, the two major centers of the two guilds should get special treatment. I'd prefer a guerrila-based campaign, with lots of few points scenarios (500-1000) and only a few large battles (2000+). The reason I view it like this is because I don't see Malekith allowing a full grown battle (remember that 2000 points are equivalent to A LOT of warriors) in Naggaroth. Maybe a final battle or alike, but no campaign based in this.

I've said my idea for a first scenario in the CoP. I need them to start working in the campaign so we can start also. We need fluff to base ourselves to do the scenarios. I'll post here to my & DH's idea.

The Cult of Pleasure arrives in Naggaroth in a Black Ark, full with troops and goods from the Lustrian Campaign. As they send the first boats to land, they start sending the goods also, unloading them. The scenario is a modified "Landing" (Albion) where the Cult of Pleasure has 750 points in defenders and has to stop the Khainits (400pts) to get to the treasure "boats" and flee away with the items they contain.
Basically, the Temple of Khaine sends a party to steal the items and wheter they succeed of not, the CoP, with renewed power (from the Lustrian campaign, with the help of the remaining chaos warriors and marauders, with the annointeds) decides it's time to put an end to the rival cult, therefore starting the war. From my point of view, this is a perfectly good explanation and reasonable also, but, as I said, the CoP takes care of the fluff and so we are dependant on them.

However, as we need to build a ToK list, with just small modifications from the regular one(namely restrictions and Hags and probably more ToK items and poisons), I think it's better to start by this road. I've already sent PM's both to Vorchild and Jargobae, both having said they have ToK lists made. We will not take them fully, but we'll, as usual, take the most important parts of the lists, the ones we feel are well made and that adapt to our own ideas of the ToK and we'll make a list.
Furthermore, we'll need a LOT of input on that list. I don't want it to be set free in the common member to test it so we need not only the PT guild, but also the help of ALL moderators involved in the campaign.

Ok, this said, and with Z'gahn in holidays, I'll wait until the end of the week to see what he says on this as he is one of the 3ee (check the rules of the Convent). I've got positive input on 3 members of the convent to drop the BAL (or at least do it along with) for the ToK. Still, I like to hear Z'gahn as he is always a reasonable voice and a member which I respect (not that I don't take in consideration all of you but I want to hear what everybody has to say).

As for the Skirmish/Mordheim style campaign, with the Druchii divided in 3 factions I believe it is very hard to achieve. Also, there aren't many players with 3 Dark Elven Armies out there, or with 3 Dark Elven friends. Also the skirmish part of the thing is a sure thing, but the Mordheim is a no. First, because it requires an extra acknowledgement of rules and gameplay that most members are not willing to. Second, the rules for Dark Elves are completely outdated and there is no way we can update them as most of our members don't even know what Mordheim is...

So, I've emptied my head, literally. What do you have to say to all this?

Alcing ragaholic · Post by **Alcing ragaholic** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:18 pm

Z feels that his TOK list was left out... snifff...

Z

Anaryin · Post by **Anaryin** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:20 pm

Anaryin conforts Z and tells him ... he doesn't...he remembers that there is a list in the ideas forum... Anaryin adds Z's list to Vorchild's and Jargobae's.

Sorry mate!!!!! :oops:

Ansob. · Post by **Ansob.** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:28 pm

Well, the way I see the ToK pseudo-list, everyone can play it. It would just involve banning spellcasters and letting Nobles and Highborns take ToK items, and maybe making Witch Elves Core and 1-3 or let them remain Special but 1+, or make them 1 + 0-1 per 1000 points - basically, your normal, regular list with a few mods. Edit: Note that I haven't had a look at the other ToK lists yet, so I deserve to be baked in the oven.
I still think that the "gang wars" type campaign would be best, given the fact that Malekith will surely not agree to letting armies (or even small armed forces of more than 500 points) fight in his precious capital, and I doubt that CoP would manage to enter Ghrond in the first place. Fluffwise, we could set this up as being part of the next Death Night, or something.
Concerning the "theft of magic items" scenario, I don't particularly adhere to the idea as I don't see why the ToK - who supposedly distrust magic - would want to loot CoP items. Unless of course, they're not wanting to steal them, but just destroy/seize/whatever them, which now sounds much more logical to me...

As for what I said about the Mordheim bit, forget it - I've never played Mordheim, but all the people whom I know did said that it was the same as Skirmish. Unexperienced player's dialect error, my bad. :roll:

Alcing ragaholic · Post by **Alcing ragaholic** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:26 pm

Well, the idea of small Flash-Hammer games would be better, since it would not require too much converting and work on the army, nor will it require a lot of expenditure from the players' side.

Z

Anaryin · Post by **Anaryin** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:00 pm

Hmm, reducing unit size right? That was included in my "scenario draft". If you could get on the MSN or something I'd appreciate really

It's a really fine way to have all these details sorted out

Alcing ragaholic · Post by **Alcing ragaholic** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:41 pm

MSN... I dinnae have MSN...

Get into the chat.

Z

Dark harlequin · Post by **Dark harlequin** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:11 am

I seriously think that this would be much better as a Mordheim/Skirmish campaign - gang wars of sorts.

Naah.
Most players don't like skirmish or Mordheim. They want full grown battles.
Lunchhammer (Flashhammer) might be ok, but we also need full grown battles.
Btw, how long should this campaign last?

Does anybody know the Board Game "American Civil War" by Eagle Games? This might give an inspiration.

Nagathi · Post by **Nagathi** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 3:59 pm

DarkHarlequin wrote:Btw, how long should this campaign last?

About 12 months ...

- Nag

Anaryin · Post by **Anaryin** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 4:18 pm

ABOUT WHAT?! :lol:

One whole year? :shock:

*comes back to reality*

Ok.. We'll have a lot of work ahead of us then. I thought it was to last like one month! Like the SoC! Are you sure it is 12 months? Because that's an year and you might end the campaign with only 4 players... the others got bored... Even if the fluff is great, even if the rules and scenarios are amazing, even if the whole story is thrilling, I think it is too much.

Ansob. · Post by **Ansob.** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 4:22 pm

Well, we could always use the standard GW Warhammer in a Flash stuff, which would make up for 500 points battles - still not "full-grown" enough? Remember, "fluff" (well, "realism," insofar as once can talk of realism when chatting about a wargame set in a fictional universe) has to come into heavy consideration. There is no way that Malekith would let a full-grown war erupt in Naggarond (to my meagre knowledge).
But I still think Skirmish would be better. Come on, face it - Skirmish is much more fun than any antagonisingly slow huge battle! *stubborn old git*

Loremaster Nagathi wrote: About 12 months ...

Anaryin isn't the only one to have thought such a thing. I nearly - after it hit me - wrote::shock: ABOUT WHAT?! One whole year?

You do realise that that would mean that we would need to produce two scenarios every week at least to keep people's interest going, right?
Et encore...

Dark harlequin · Post by **Dark harlequin** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:10 pm

About 12 months ...

Ah, that's what I wanted to hear.

I thought it was to last like one month! Like the SoC!

SoC features one march of Chaos towards one main event.
The Civil War would indeed last much longer.

But I still think Skirmish would be better. Come on, face it - Skirmish is much more fun than any antagonisingly slow huge battle! *stubborn old git*

Well, how comes that people still play large battles and buy lots of big units? Because that's what Warhammer is and should be.

If we offer more than just one scenario one could be skirmish/flashammer and the other "real" Warhammer.

Or we somehow start a poll and see what players would like to have - if such a thing is possible.

So, we need a couple of battlesites like the cities and probably two or three other important sites.
Then we decide which of those sites will be active at the beginning and implement two basic scenarios for each city and other scenarios for the other battlesites.
The outcome of those battles may, let's say after 3 weeks, open new battlesites and opportunities - or close others.

You do realise that that would mean that we would need to produce two scenarios every week at least to keep people's interest going, right?

No, we just have to implement basic scenarios (rulebook) and make special scenarios for special situations.
If the war cools down after 6 weeks the war is settled...where's the problem?

Anaryin · Post by **Anaryin** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:46 pm

Well, ok. If you think we can handle it, who am I to say the contrary. But still, one year for me is just too much. I would prefer until Christmas and then put a poll or something to ask if the players wanted to continue.

Anaryin