Cerulaetas wrote:Thank you, I might actually start using this army list if the others in my group approve of it and will let me. My forces tend to revolve around corsairs and dark riders alot (MSU) so the new Raiders rule for corsairs is excellent, though I'm not exactly sure how to make up for the lost witch elves (I normally take 2 units + CoB) and the lost chariots. Any advice?
The Black Sea Dragons could make up for the witches here to a degree, also the execs could help in the role of lost chariots.
I was thinking I could definitely take a unit of those new badass Black Sea Dragons, though that would only make up for one of those units. I don't particularly like the ideas of slaves, I don't use execs too much, or shades, or RBTs. *has idea* Mengil Manhide's Manflayers are allowed, correct?
Mengils are allowed of course! Having Mengil and Lharek the Lame in the same list might cause trouble between the two of them. Of course they probably get along fine as long as the other stays away from the other's bounty...
Gee there is a thought, imagine those two thugs in the same bar?
Alright, now here's a massive ethical problem I have with the list. Skaven have 2 point slaves with leadership 2, which can be boosted to leadership 5 with their "strength in numbers" special ability, then to leadership 9 or 10 if within range of a grey seer or warlord. However, our slaves can just automatically be upgraded to leadership 8 for 10 pts, which makes it completely feasible to take one gigantic unit of slaves, and stretch it across the whole board as a meatshield. All you probably actually need to make it effective is 30 slaves, which will cost you 100 pts with leadership upgrade. That'll take any non-seaguard/woodie shooting list at least 2 turns to deal with, and it'll even be hard to do 25% casualties to cause a panic test.
So, my question is: was this intentional? or is it an oversight that was overlooked and should be dealt with somehow? Fluffwise, it would be extremely hard for 1 beastmaster to keep 30 models in one straight organized line (considering they're drugged), so it may need an additional rule, perhaps call it "organization", which states the the maximum width of a rank is 10, or something along that line.
(For those who haven't looked Dark Elf slaves are 3 points and I2 even worse than skaven ones.)
The thing we think, and what I have found is that large units of these kind of slaves (as you point out those damn skaven can easily have ld10 slaves and ld10 is way better than ld8), turn out to be a big waste of points. They get no command or champion, so the best they get is ranks and number. They are so easy to break because they are worse fighters than Skaven slaves (no shield, no spear, no armour, no musician) that they start to cost you a lot by having large units of them when they start breaking from even fast cav hits on the side. A big line of them doesn't even get ranks and can be broken by a hit of fast cav.
Also big units of them really get in the way, the DE army depends on mobility and this big block preventing you from maneuvering is a pain in the ass.
I have found that the best size is small units that I use as screens against missile shooting and magic missiles, and as bait or roadblocks. Otherwise, since they always break and die so easily, you start to lose points by getting big blocks killed.
Thinking about that this way, to a DE as a slave is literally walking cash, you wouldn't want to sacrifice too many of them to get the job done, just enough that is necessary. Using too many slaves is represented by army composition points, of which the loss of many units of slaves can cost you the game!
Also remember that you cannot have more DE slave units than corsair units and that the DE slave units do not count as core choices. So it is hard to have a huge slave army.
But try it out in a couple of games and let us know what you think. There is no reason that it cannot be changed with time and opponent opinion.
While running a million dollar company, singing at weddings, and his frequent jetting to Spain Elton Jon style, Dark Alliance found the time to stand on the doorstep of Games Workshop like Moses and the Pharoah and calmly state, "Let my people go."
