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Malekith's Best Friend
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Hey y'all, I'd like to discus the campaign a bit in this topic.

See after reading through the battlesite fluff I have to say I'm not sure if this is a nightmare or a good thing for our race. I know that people have long been bussy about Arnheim and the conflict between the temple and the cult, but seriously I think this is just crazy.

Forgive my harsh comments as I ramble over your hard work and I really do think the effort is great, but this is as I see it:
-First of all, the reporting: You say you have to report from both the player sides. What this gets you is that almost only the players who take the time to sign up and everything as well as their opponents doing the same, will get to post results, my point is: You can't play against someone who is not involved in the campaign!
-The fluff: The CoS and ToK bash it out all in the open... I mean seriously do you think this realistic? Sure the CoS has come into life just recently, but construct these factors togheter:
*The witchking would be a complete idiot to let his race fight so openly, first off all the CoS has suffered sugnificantly from the war against Lustria and now they are just supposed to dive into conflict again just like it's nothing!
*Dark elves have had several civil wars in the past and our race is really running thin, with all this bloodshed our entire race would crumble as we've joined the war for middenheim (failed misserably, just like the rest of the attackers), fought the war against Lustria, without any real gains and are now supposed to go into civil war?
-The dwarf thing... I mean seriously, submarines? Ironclads? wtf? Now I can set all those thoughts aside and allow imagination to make it all work, but I see it as just another conflict between dwarves and skaven. Like they haven't had enough of each other...
-The druchii-lizardmen alliance: Siding with the race that a month or so ago planned on burning your home, raiding your posessions and bashing your brains out... I rest my case...

So, I'd like to know if I'm just being annoying, or do other people share my oppinion that this campaign is kinda "Unfluffy" (hate that word)

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Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:18 pm
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Malekith's Speechwriter
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Well, you have some valid points that I agree with (like Malekith just standing around and letting it all happen), but I think that the Cult of Slaanesh becoming powerful would be the straw that breaks the camel's back. All of these changes, and some miserably bad luck I might add, for the entire Druchii race, would be a breeding ground for civil wars.

The lizardmen have allied with the Temple of Khaine for basically one reason, and its a real kicker: They are fighting chaos. The slann probably figure (rightly) that the Temple of Khaine is the lesser of two evils, and the Lizardmen to NOT want the CoP to win Naggaroth, as it would mean a mass migration of Chaos power southward into Naggaroth, literally the doorstep of the Lizardmen nation, the only nation with the power to maintain the gates of Chaos. Thats why, and I think its an excellent reason.

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Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:10 am
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Malekith's Tastetester & Physician
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Mordekai of Khanlath wrote:
Hey y'all, I'd like to discus the campaign a bit in this topic.

See after reading through the battlesite fluff I have to say I'm not sure if this is a nightmare or a good thing for our race. I know that people have long been bussy about Arnheim and the conflict between the temple and the cult, but seriously I think this is just crazy.

Forgive my harsh comments as I ramble over your hard work and I really do think the effort is great, but this is as I see it:
-First of all, the reporting: You say you have to report from both the player sides. What this gets you is that almost only the players who take the time to sign up and everything as well as their opponents doing the same, will get to post results, my point is: You can't play against someone who is not involved in the campaign!



Reports that are not validated will still count but will be worth less than reports by both players, the winner and loser.

Any other ideas on how to prevent cheating??? You could enter false reports everyday.

Obviously the game is more effective if both people play...
But if your opponent doesn't care you can still enter reports. They are worth less points but that's valid considering that your opponent doesn't care.

Quote:
-The fluff: The CoS and ToK bash it out all in the open... I mean seriously do you think this realistic? Sure the CoS has come into life just recently, but construct these factors togheter:
*The witchking would be a complete idiot to let his race fight so openly, first off all the CoS has suffered sugnificantly from the war against Lustria and now they are just supposed to dive into conflict again just like it's nothing!


The Witch King has done it before. Right after the sundering, remember that the Slaaneshi Dark Elves were in charge and were given control over the Naggaroth cities. Malekith allowed a civil war and allowed the Khainites to wipe out the Slaaneshi DE because they were too powerful... perhaps now the Khainites are too powerful and Malekith is shaking things up again.

About conflict, well DE live for fighting... c'mon this IS warhammer you know. It is a WAR game. :)

About the conflict, if you read the fluff carefully you'll notice that on a scale the battles are much less epic than the SoC.

Quote:
-The dwarf thing... I mean seriously, submarines? Ironclads? wtf? Now I can set all those thoughts aside and allow imagination to make it all work, but I see it as just another conflict between dwarves and skaven. Like they haven't had enough of each other...



No its a three way fight between dwarves skaven and DE. Secondly dwarves have those ships if you pay attention to the naval war rules GW just came out with.

Quote:

-The druchii-lizardmen alliance: Siding with the race that a month or so ago planned on burning your home, raiding your posessions and bashing your brains out... I rest my case...



DE and Lizardmen are pragmatic. There are millions of examples from real history where enemies have formed common alliances for common causes. Check them out.

(Also because the Khainites were being assaulted from all sides they did need allies to balance the campaign)

Quote:
So, I'd like to know if I'm just being annoying, or do other people share my oppinion that this campaign is kinda "Unfluffy" (hate that word)


I think you're not being very helpful.

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Last edited by Langmann on Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:27 am
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Malekith's Tastetester & Physician
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Mornâr Shethurith wrote:

The lizardmen have allied with the Temple of Khaine for basically one reason, and its a real kicker: They are fighting chaos. The slann probably figure (rightly) that the Temple of Khaine is the lesser of two evils, and the Lizardmen to NOT want the CoP to win Naggaroth, as it would mean a mass migration of Chaos power southward into Naggaroth, literally the doorstep of the Lizardmen nation, the only nation with the power to maintain the gates of Chaos. Thats why, and I think its an excellent reason.


That is spot on, and exactly why. Moreover there are other problems that the Lizards are having, the VC are right on their doorstep (the Vampire Coast) Luthor Harkon...

Common enemies make common allies.

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Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:32 am
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Hmmm, well I get your points, and thanks for indulging me. :oops:

I just care a lot for our race, I love it's spirit and agressive style, but somethimes I'm perhaps too traditional in my protection. :) I think this has granted some explanation for the campaign though and hope that everybody will have a great time gaming. ;)

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Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:13 am
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About reporting: There isn't any way we can have a cheat-proof system, but this comes pretty close. Your opponent only need to know your mail address and some basic stuff about the game to make both reports worth a lot more. It takes a few seconds to report, sure they all got time for that.

- Nag

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Sun Sep 12, 2004 2:10 pm
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i beleve we are born to fight and i am chaseing down a druchii anoited no matter who gets in my way (my char is ne ways) however i do think that undead being there are a bit much

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Wed Sep 15, 2004 12:07 am
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langmann wrote:
Mornâr Shethurith wrote:

The lizardmen have allied with the Temple of Khaine for basically one reason, and its a real kicker: They are fighting chaos. The slann probably figure (rightly) that the Temple of Khaine is the lesser of two evils, and the Lizardmen to NOT want the CoP to win Naggaroth, as it would mean a mass migration of Chaos power southward into Naggaroth, literally the doorstep of the Lizardmen nation, the only nation with the power to maintain the gates of Chaos. Thats why, and I think its an excellent reason.


That is spot on, and exactly why. Moreover there are other problems that the Lizards are having, the VC are right on their doorstep (the Vampire Coast) Luthor Harkon...

Common enemies make common allies.


but we can still enslave them when were done useing them as allies right? :twisted: *hides chains behind back*

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Wed Sep 15, 2004 12:10 am
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Lizardmen allying with the dark elves. While for most mortal races this would be a big no-no. I have read thoroughly the fluff on the lizardmen so this is completely understandable.

The Slann basically see all of the lesser races (other than the greenskins and skaven) as their children. They see the dark elves, rather than an evil superpower, as a misguided brat. It says in the army book that the Slann never wanted to attack the dark elves except when they stole precious artifacts as they were their children... The CoS is chaos, the archrival's of the Old Ones and slann. They would do anything to destroy something that goes against the Old Ones highly ordered plan.

It is harder to get your head around that one than with other races, because the Slann don't simply have an arrogant attitude (like the elves) and think their better, they have an almost paternal need to protect the lesser races.

The only exceptions being greenskins (a 'plague' according to the Slann that couldn't be stopped) and skaven because they too are unnatural beings.

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Wed Sep 15, 2004 12:51 am
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Malekith's Tastetester & Physician
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Black Hydra wrote:
Lizardmen allying with the dark elves. While for most mortal races this would be a big no-no. I have read thoroughly the fluff on the lizardmen so this is completely understandable.

The Slann basically see all of the lesser races (other than the greenskins and skaven) as their children. They see the dark elves, rather than an evil superpower, as a misguided brat. It says in the army book that the Slann never wanted to attack the dark elves except when they stole precious artifacts as they were their children... The CoS is chaos, the archrival's of the Old Ones and slann. They would do anything to destroy something that goes against the Old Ones highly ordered plan.

It is harder to get your head around that one than with other races, because the Slann don't simply have an arrogant attitude (like the elves) and think their better, they have an almost paternal need to protect the lesser races.

The only exceptions being greenskins (a 'plague' according to the Slann that couldn't be stopped) and skaven because they too are unnatural beings.


Well put and it is exactly how the Slaan view things. Who knows what the other lizards are thinking, but they're mostly bidden by the Slaan who make the real decisions.

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Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:00 am
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Black Hydra wrote:
Lizardmen allying with the dark elves. While for most mortal races this would be a big no-no. I have read thoroughly the fluff on the lizardmen so this is completely understandable.


oh well desperate times calls for desperate measures...but seriously would I would think that the ToK would juz view the lizardman as tools or peharps cannon fodder.... :twisted:


Wed Sep 15, 2004 2:22 am
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I dont have a problem with the fluff or reasons, and I think it'll be a great campaign. BUT this scenario would be a disaster for the Druchii. We've been pretty much left alone in our northern country for the last couple of thousand years; and now we're all of a sudden invaded by dwarves, skaven, lizzies, undead, and the hated Asur is moving as well. OK maybe the battles are smaller than the SoC. But if half of this was to happen, Malekith would (should) come out in a rage not often seen and take drastic measures.
OK Malekith has always encouraged back-stabbing and so on. But would he do it whilst engaged in a war? Historically, there are few civil wars that start during war. Revolutions yes, civil wars no. And dont tell me this is a revolution, Malekith would HARDLY look the other way to that!

So, what does Malekith has to say to these events? Which Special Characters can be used by the different sides?
And yes, I think it'll be a great campaign, I just hope GW doesn't write the fluff according to these events.
Thanks.


Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:53 am
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Malekith is aware of the upcoming struggle, and he will wait to take any sides until he can be sure he won't lose. Those of you who might think he is a khainist, remember the old shield he used to have? The one with the slaaneshi mark on it?
Malekith is as of yet neutral. He hats what will happen, but he can't afford to join one side until he knows his chosen side will win this struggle. He is a smart leader, somewhat backstabbing, but still smart.

- Nag

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Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:58 pm
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Well, I for one dont think Malekith is a Khainist, I think he's a pragmatic (always has always will). Of course he wont take sides officially until the situation has become clearer, BUT I highly doubt that he would be passive until that moment. For instance, although he hasen't officially taken sides, he would certainly have a preference for how he would like this to turn out, wouldn't he?

So why not send Shadowblade to knock off Hellebron, and blame if on the CoS? (if weakend Khainists is what he wants). Or the other way around, remove his mother, which is now IMO acting in away that borders to treason.

And I ask again; has there been a discussion on which special characters that can be used? And for what sides? (except the obvious Morathi and Hellebron)
Thanks again.


Fri Sep 17, 2004 9:29 am
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Dwarf ships such as the Nautilus and Ironclads are well established in the background, I don't know when they first appeared but they certainly featured in Man O'War circa 1990.
The Ironclad fits with the Dwarfs' early industrial revolution era steam technology, I'll concede that the Nautilus is pushing it a little but it's fantasy.

The Slann are the ultimate pragmatists - they live for thousands, even tens of thousands of years. The collapse of the Dwarf empire approx 7500 years ago which allowed the greenskins and skaven to prosper was the result of earthquakes triggered by Lord Kroak shuffling the tectonic plates around for his own long term purposes. The Slann will do whatever is necessary to hold back Chaos.

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Fri Sep 17, 2004 10:05 am
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I SO hope that there's going to be some Sweet! fluff in this all, I just can't wait to get started, some of the fluff may be superficial or far-fetched, but from what everybody sais, it only makes sence that these things would happen. So you've defenately won me over and I hope other people are as excited about it is I am now. ;)

Greetz and thanx for your comments everybody!

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Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:30 pm
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