Non-druchii armies?

Throw your ideas for Druchii.net around in here...

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Sneaky
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Post by Sneaky »

Loremaster Nagathi wrote:I disagree with Drakai.
I know I have the admins against me, but I think wargamers' discussion should be about wargames. And keep it to that. I want all topics about favourite beer or "cool vidios" on another site. Let the Wargaming forum be about wargaming, other stuff doesn't belong in there. If you want to post a link to a "cool vidio", then you have 255 letters to do so in your signature.

Loremaster Nagathi


You have one admin against you, at least, because I originally came up with the name "Wargamers' Discussion". The point is that it's simply a place where Wargamers can discuss stuff. Now, the reason that it's not something like "Other Discussion" or "Off-Topic Discussion" is because it tends to make people believe that it's for any old crap, and thus it attracts some spam. That's not entirely true; my intention when creating that name was to make the change in the board subtle but still palpable. Instead of simply discussing other aspects of the hobby (like the previous version was), it existed as a place for people who played Wargames to discuss things other than Dark Elves. That meant that you can discuss pretty much anything under the sun, and it still does. The only cap is to avoid spam/flame/trolling (duh) and high controversy: politics and religion, for instance.

I thought that the current title managed all this quite effectively, and if others didn't notice than that was all right by me. The way I saw (and still see) it, the users would kind of realise that they had more freedom but not be entirely sure how much. So they would slowly diversify their discussions. I think it's gone spectacularly so far, especially with that "Is Chaos Evil?" topic. It had to be locked eventually, but it was reminiscent of the old days when we could discuss such edgy topics calmly and logically and in a generally friendly manner.
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Post by Nagathi »

You are kinda contradicting yourself, as you are saying you want me to go to another site to post offtopic, and again you say you dont want people to join the site only for offtopic.
On the other site what is off topic here would maybe be very much on topic there. A crap post about beer flavours on druchii.net is way off topic, but on www.beersociety.com that might not be as off topic. I am not contradictining myself, I just missed to explain further.

It came, its gone, I personnally don't care if it comes back. If I want Non-Warhammer Related Topics, I'll go to a Non-Warhammer site.
That is exactly what I want. That's the mentality I'm following, and I try to get more people to do so. Unfortunalety, I have the entire admin team against me.

like the ppl on this site, and i like to discuss things with THESE people, when i wanna discuss on the net i dont just wanna discuss for the discussion. I wanna discuss for the fun. On these forums the great variety of members personalities, and the tight community, it becomes a more personal discussion. I like that...
What's stopping you from sending those guys a PM saying something like "Oh, I've found a great site where we can discuss this and this." If they want to discuss with you, they will follow you there.

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Post by Lethalis »

I agree with Nagathi here, this is and remains a Warhammer forum, dedicated to Dark Elves, and is not designed to talk about beer, except for Bugman's which might be tolerated. It's really frustrating when you're looking for topics to share your wisdom or ask questions.
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Post by Nagathi »

Sneaky wrote:You have one admin against you, at least, because I originally came up with the name "Wargamers' Discussion". The point is that it's simply a place where Wargamers can discuss stuff. Now, the reason that it's not something like "Other Discussion" or "Off-Topic Discussion" is because it tends to make people believe that it's for any old crap, and thus it attracts some spam. That's not entirely true; my intention when creating that name was to make the change in the board subtle but still palpable. Instead of simply discussing other aspects of the hobby (like the previous version was), it existed as a place for people who played Wargames to discuss things other than Dark Elves. That meant that you can discuss pretty much anything under the sun, and it still does. The only cap is to avoid spam/flame/trolling (duh) and high controversy: politics and religion, for instance.
The name suggests members to talk about everything they want, but that's not really where the problem lies for me. It would be like creating a forum called Spam, and spam would be the content, but it is still not what I want. I want useless, non-wargaming threads off this site. We are all wargamers (at least 99.99 % of us) and a forum for our discussions surly would have discussions of everything in it. I withdraw my statement on the name of the forum now. However, I can cling on to the spirit of the site. The spirit of all our boards would be to discuss wargames, and thus that forum attracts lots of non-wargaming content. That content is (in my opinion) against the spirit of the boards. Berr threads doesn't belong on a wargames site, and I would personally want it locked or prevented in the first place.
Do not get me wrong here, Sneaky. You guys set the rules and I obey to follow them, but I just wanted to vent my opinions and explain why I feel that kind of threads should be gone.

I think it's gone spectacularly so far, especially with that "Is Chaos Evil?" topic. It had to be locked eventually, but it was reminiscent of the old days when we could discuss such edgy topics calmly and logically and in a generally friendly manner.
Yeah, that thread was good, but it was wargaming related. I have no problems with threads like that, it is the ones with absolutely no relation to wargames which I do not like.

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Post by Sneaky »

By the way, Kithan's much-vaunted sort of random postings board does exist. http://www.genmay.com is pretty good for those of you who want to post in a large community. However, their mods and admins are fairly draconian at times (people left the original site because the admin went Hitler on them), and unlike Druchii.net, the people there are CRUEL. I do mean cruel.

I surf there from time to time, but I don't post. I'm too fragile.
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Post by Black hydra »

Well, seeing as I did start this thread I am going to have to reply to the large amount of input.

My opinions on the matter are as follows:

1) This is called "druchii.net" I don't intend to waste valuable resources to make this a site for every army. There are about two dozen links on the front page for that. While, I don't think talking about other armies should be forbidden, I don't think we should lose our identity here.

2) While I tend to side with Lord N on the issue of there being off-topic discussion or not, I do think it is important that we can have an outlet to discuss things or draw other members to the attention of things that may intrest them. I simply look at it in the manner that if we have this "Off Topic" forum it does draw away resources. If the mods (who ultimately are these valuable resources) are willing to volunteer I see no problem.

3) As I said earlier, I think that there are many topics that are too general to be race specific. I think these topics either should be allowed on the main forums or have a separate forum for them.

4) I also really feel we need to define what content should be placed where. Each mod has slightly different opinions and, as such, material because of the feedback is often left on a forum it doesn't really belong.

Druchii Discussion seems to encompass pretty much anything. I think we need to define what does and doesn't belong here better. For example: My campaigning thread was moved to wargames discussion, however, Rasputins rant about Mail Order was not. I am not complaining about the decision I just think having more than vague guidelines is necessary.

If it is decided that Druchii Discussion will be, as it should, about Druchii then have a separate (serious) forum to put things to do with wargames and not specifically druchii.

Although this can be placed in the Wargamers Discussion Forum, I doubt Rasputin's article would have been given as serious thought. It seems that there is almost a certain 'prejudice' to topics in that forum that have them lose there seriousness.

If the mods can handle introducing a new Warhammer Discussion Forum aswell as the Wargamer's Discussion Forum then I don't see why one needs to be removed. If they cannot I would rather sacrifice the off-topic comments for the integrity of the forum. That is my opinion, you guys can do what you want!

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Post by Nagathi »

If it is decided that Druchii Discussion will be, as it should, about Druchii then have a separate (serious) forum to put things to do with wargames and not specifically druchii.

Although this can be placed in the Wargamers Discussion Forum, I doubt Rasputin's article would have been given as serious thought. It seems that there is almost a certain 'prejudice' to topics in that forum that have them lose there seriousness.
The reason topic lose their seriousness when they reach the WGD is peobably due to the amount of crap posts and threads in there. This is one great argument for our cause. We need a forum for non druchii stuff, but the Wargamers' Discussion is not the place for it since the crappy threads (ok, no offense but threads not about wargames on this druchii site are considered crap by me) surrounding that topic makes it just as bad as they. I see it as a coin in the hand and a coin in a pile of sh*t, which is most valuable?
So far I have not heard one good argument for why we should keep the crap treads, and I would like to hear more from Sneaky, who apparently decided to have it the way it is.

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Post by Black hydra »

I think one point needs to be brought up about the Wargamer's Discussion threads.

These 'crap posts' (as coined by Lord N) are contributing to post count. I don't think people with 1000 posts and thus considered 'honorable contributers' to the site should really have that title for making posts about beer and punk rock.

Please, thats just like spam as it is easy to think of topics if they have no relevance to the site.

As I said earlier, I don't dislike the forum, I just feel it is wasting resources better spent elsewhere. If the mods can keep this up and a new warhammer discussion forum then I suppose it will still make people happy. It does however, still leave my last comment unresolved...
There once was a High Elf named Bill
He went out and fought with all his will
Along came the hydra
and fried Bill with fire
And that was the end of poor Bill.
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Post by Sneaky »

I have never been much of a fan of having discussion of non-Druchii stuff on these boards because this is a Druchii board. However, contradictory as it may seem, I am not opposed to some non-Warhammer discussion creeping in. Basically, I think that other topics should be discussed from time to time (not as a matter of habit but once in a while) but when it comes to Wargaming we should stick to Dark Elves and things related to Dark Elves.

I think therein lies much of the problem. I don't have concerns about "favourite beer" threads, although I admittedly haven't read that thread. I think those are fine - it's basically the community interacting on a different level. The thing I find hard to justify is discussion on Tzeentch army lists or possibilities for the fourth edition of 40K. It just seems like the precise wrong place to discuss that. If this were a general Warhammer forum, fine, but it isn't. It's a Dark Elf forum.

Those are my views, anyway. I'll throw a possible suggestion out there, which would help redefine the use of the Druchii Discussion and Wargamers' Discussion forums. Basically, we would effect a sort of merger between WGD and DD, so that the WGD is deleted, but we relax the rules in Druchii Discussion a bit. We basically state that Wargaming discussion should be confined to Dark Elves, but gamers can discuss some other things outside of the Warhammer hobby. This suggestion obviously hinges on whether you agree with my views on allowing non-Druchii-yet-about-Warhammer threads here.

Edit: for those who really want to keep a general warhammer discussion forum, I expect that we'd make the WGD into General Warhammer Discussion instead of deleting it. I reread the original post :roll:.
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Post by Nagathi »

Correct me if I'm wrong here, Sneaky, but you said:
that discussions on Tzeentch (wargaming discussions) are "bad" because they have nothing to do with Druchii
and
that Favourite Beer threads are ok, because... :roll:
Your logic is not really showing off here. Tzeentch is too off topic, but beer isn't?

I don't want new forums, or any changes in the druchii discussion. I want the Wargamers' Discussion to be about wargames and nothing else. That is my suggestion for ya.


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Post by Lord k »

i think i see where sneaky is coming from here and i think i would agree. the topics about beer and music help to build a better atmosphere and community on the site. these are the kinds of things that dark elf players do. any discussion on wargames though should be mainly devoted to dark elven topics as this is a dark elf site which has nothing to do with 40k. i also know that beer has nothing to do with 40k but it is somehow different discussing those type of things
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Post by Drakken »

Actually, currently, the Tzeentch threads and the 40K 4th Edition discussion are actually Wargaming Discussion, which is what that Forum is supposed to be by its name. I'm not really following how the Beer or Band debates go along with them (accept perhaps under the Humor aspects, since those have been some damn funny stuff)...
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Post by Nagathi »

Drakken, that's the point. Someone (assuming Sneaky) changed the name from Wargames Discussion to Wargamers' Discussion. Therefore, the name doesn't contradict the beer threads anymore

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Post by Black hydra »

I can understand where both sides are coming from. Seeing as I consider myself in the middle of the two camps perhaps I can help explain what I have just heard and share my opinions on the matters.

First off, I can see why Sneaky feels threads about 40K and Tzeentch are off-topic but beer threads are not. The reason is, that, everyone on the site is aware that threads on beer are off topic and as such can be easily contained in one small corner of the site without 'polluting' the rest. However, topics about Tzeench and 40K are more vague. If they are allowed in regular sections then we might just get overrun by those who have no intrest in druchii at all. Keep in mind that there are still many threads in the Wargamer's Discussion that are related to other races.

As for the rules relating to Druchii Discussion I have no idea how you are going to police an 'Off topic, in small amounts' rule. Personally, I think this is a good place for the chat. If you want to talk about off-topic stuff with site members the chat generally has a few people and I find over half the time they are discussing different things so there isn't the same strict on-topic approach there.

I understand why many members feel that a little bit of off-topic is good. This can help people talk about things unrelated and also share things that they felt the community would be interested in. I do think, however, that, these kind of priviledges shouldn't be abused. If people are increasing there post count by making pointless threads this is wrong and should be punished.

I think some more definite rules should be defined as to this "Off-Topic" behavior.

One rule that might work is that you shouldn't start an off-topic thread if there is already one on the front page. This would be a definite rule with solid rules, however, it still minimizes off-topic discussion while allows for some "freedom" from time to time. I suppose that might satisfy both parties.

I think the most important points are:
- Many members want to be able to post some off-topic things even if they are minimal
- Many members want a legitimate place to post non-druchii or simply warhammer general content without having it moved

There we go..
There once was a High Elf named Bill
He went out and fought with all his will
Along came the hydra
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Post by Drakken »

....oh...oops. Tells you how much I pay attention to little details huh? Maybe I'll just stay out of this from now on, it seems a really muddied-water debated at this point. We all have our views, can back them up, and its sort of a nobody going anywhere anytime soon.
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Post by Falahk »

I have said it befor and i know all mods disagre with me about it.....I think the removal of the humor forum did remove the wargaming aspect of the wgd(did take all serius stuff from the wgd) and made it the forum it is today...so in sumary black hydras idea is a good move back towards the orginal feel of druchii.net

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Post by Sneaky »

Drakken wrote:....oh...oops. Tells you how much I pay attention to little details huh? Maybe I'll just stay out of this from now on, it seems a really muddied-water debated at this point. We all have our views, can back them up, and its sort of a nobody going anywhere anytime soon.


That may be true, Drakken, but unfortunately for me and the other mods/admins, this is a matter that will need to be cleared up in order to ensure the proper running of the boards. The whole "this debate isn't going to be solved easily" point can't deter us. Hey, our jobs are tough.

I put forward an idea that has gotten approval from a few mods (we've been discussing this!) which I'll repeat here without permission from the others (but it's my idea so bugger off and let my have my moment). After the SoC, we could change that board into a non-Druchii Warhammer board and change the Wargamers' Discussion into a board where people can discuss non-Warhammer things.
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Post by Zool »

Hmm..

Druchii.net is blessed with a very large quantity of members compared to most other warhammer related sites. The members are a ressource envied by those who've decided to focus their money and time on non-druchii armies and browse forums of less quality than this one. Yes, we are tempted to sign up here, yet the onesided nature of these forums keep us at bay.
- Sure, I can understand that the druchii community wants to keep its identity as the prime darkelf warhammer site, but Im also certain druchii.net can reap the knowledge and ideas of the rest of the warhammer world by simply adding a single board on their forums dedicated to "other armies" without loosing any identity at all.

The amount of members alone will drive non-druchii players to make use of this board in the hope that their ideas, armylists, tactics etc will recieve attention from a larger quantity of people than they otherwise would on near-dead websites dedicated to their particular armies.
Druchii.net would lose nothing from this arrangement - instead it would most likely increase its memberbase and thus gain new views on the discussions here from generals using other armies.
People playing other armies would at times stray from their "other armies" board to enrich the druchii discussions with the enemy point of view on your armylists and tactics, they would share with you what countermeasures you could expect from their particular army and in the end everyones smarter than they'd be if they just stuck to their own crowd and didnt bother with other point of views.

A board such as "Other armies" would be a win-win situation for the druchii community in the sense that it would provide fresh blood and fresh views that stuck around for more than 2 posts while in the same time providing a board where druchii ppl could snoop new enemy tactics. In return the other-army-generals reap the benefits of a huge crowd of members reviewing their stuff.

On a sidenote - I assume alotta druchii players have alternate armies as well that they'd like to discuss at times and the "other armies" board would prevent them logging off druchii to scout the net for some mediocre site dealing with those other armies.

Well, just 2cents from a Mortal Slaanesh General envious of the great site you have here - you've done a great job making this place and I wish there was a chaos site of similar size and quality out there - I've yet to discover it at least...

- Zool
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Post by Nagathi »

I completely agree with Zool here.
A board dedicated to non-druchii stuff is alwys needed, however, it is the existence of tht non-wargaming board which I am against.

Loremaster Nagathi

Feels wrong making such a short post after Zool's great one, but...
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Post by Black hydra »

Well I think this is a bit of a mess right now but as Sneaky said I don't think this is really an issue we can just put off. I think we will have to compromise.

There are definitely enough people (and mods) who want to have some limited off-topic discussion.

I think there is a large amount of people, enough to warrant making a new board for the other aspects of warhammer. I think that having a legitimate place to discuss this stuff is in order.

I think there are also enough people who want to keep off-topic discussion off this site entirely to maintain that all off-topic posts would be very limited and only as an occasional break from the usual subject manner.

Finally, I think there are many different solution routes that would satisfy all the parties involved. Maybe we should start brainstorming some seeing as I think all of us have illustrated there points?
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Along came the hydra
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Post by Oloth »

Dont need non warhammer related topics. But let the other amies in if you like but make sure you restrict the Asur.... By the way I've seen some HE posts in Druchii.net before and I got realy pissed..... !mad!
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Post by Mtucache »

Right... because you can actually tell what armies people play by what their IP address is. :roll:

Did it ever occur to you that some people here may play multiple armies, including High Elves?? What would you say if you found out that the first miniature I ever bought was a Swordmaster?? Ban me? :roll:
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Post by Nagathi »

I just hope Oloth is joking... What about our good member Alith Anar, or any of the other great Asur member we have (sorry for forgetting your names at the time) ?
Hey, we even made Alith Anar turn to the dark side after spending some time here.

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Post by Drakken »

Okay, having a lot of free time this weekend, I did some reading.

"A Long Time Ago in a Galaxy Far Far Away.." (Couldn't resist)
We had an unhappy and unsuccessful place called Non-Druchi Discussion. This was closed because it didn't work. In time, in reopen as Wargaming Discussion (this was also the 1st Reformat of the Humor Forum). This worked for a while, but was eventually stilled filled with large amounts of things that had nothing to do with War Gaming. Its has since become Wargamer's Discussion, and has a large amount of free reign for topics (or has become the dumping ground for others).

What does this lead to (in a bit of a long winded manner)? A Question: Whats Changed? Aren't we nearly right back were we started a couple of years ago when this didn't work? Perhaps is time for heads with more control then mine to make another decision: Do we really want an Non-Gaming Discussion Board (which we basically have)? I understand the point about Other Armies, and would have no problems with a Forum for them (I'd actually rather like it), but do we really want to bring back pure NDD? Which is all that will be left in WGD besides Humor...
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Post by Nagathi »

Drakken wrote:Whats Changed? Aren't we nearly right back were we started a couple of years ago when this didn't work?
I think so. And I would hate that to happen again.

Perhaps is time for heads with more control then mine to make another decision: Do we really want an Non-Gaming Discussion Board (which we basically have)? I understand the point about Other Armies, and would have no problems with a Forum for them (I'd actually rather like it), but do we really want to bring back pure NDD? Which is all that will be left in WGD besides Humor...
I am all in with this idea, but unfortunately (for me and you) the other mods and admins are against me. This has been discussed before, both here (check other threads in this very forum) and in more exclusive forums. I want to have the Wargamers' Discussion (WGD) renamed, or locked. Either make it Non-Druchii Discussion (as it was long ago) and keep it at Wargaming topics. Or delete/lock that one and create a new forum with the NDD rules and guidelines.

What we agreed on (somewhat) was that the SoC forum might evolve into a forum for wargaming discussions where people can rate and give advice on other armies, talk about other armies' tactics etc etc. It is not set in stone (and will proabably never will until one admin decides to just do it), but it looks like that is what might happen.

- Nag
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