Druchii.net: the most uptight forum on the net

Farke · Post by **Farke** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:31 pm

It seems like there is no longer possible to lead an intelligent discussion or to ask simple questions on this board without getting your posts locked. Casually dropping in, I immedeately noticed several threads locked because the authors asked for things like whether or not Shades were 0-1 in a back-of-the-book list! Why do we even have a Rules Question forum, if every other post gets locked because someone asked for or someone else divulged (even accidentally) copyrighted information? Also, do not the moderators around here understand that the same or more copyrighted information is revealed in almost any topic discussing the tactical/strategic aspects of the game? Why are threads locked and participants given warnings because a Rules Question about, say, a Magic Item turned into a tactical discussion around said item? Do you actually prefer two or more threads on one item where they all could be resolved in one go? Beware, fellow members, there is a doublestandard like no other lose on this forum.

I understand that the fear of divulging copyrighted material is because Druchii.net want's an official recognition by Games Workshop, or be allowed to participate in the making of the next Warhammer Armies: Dark Elves book. Well read my lips as I say: It ain't gonna to happen.

Oh, and to actually make sure this thread would belong in this forum category, here's my Druchhi.net Suggestion: Stop being so uptight!

Nagathi · Post by **Nagathi** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:57 pm

It seems like you are talking about the site in general judging from one or a few forums. Not good.
As always, if you have issues about how a thread has been handeled by a moderator, you should send them a Private Message and let them explain their actions.

I understand that the fear of divulging copyrighted material is because Druchii.net want's an official recognition by Games Workshop, or be allowed to participate in the making of the next Warhammer Armies: Dark Elves book. Well read my lips as I say: It ain't gonna to happen.

Sorry to have to disapoint you or something, but it is already happening.

- Nag

Mdk · Post by **Mdk** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:39 pm

Well what can I say?
I think beeing "so uptight" as you put it so nicely is making
this site so healthy as it is. Without that it would just
be a other WHFB communety that tends to spam, flame and
do useless things instead of what it should do and that is
giving information and having reasonable and senceble
discussions. Copywrite is a important isseu btw.
Without that GW would'nt even exists and that goes for
us aswell. IMHO.
Greetings, MDK.

Blackfel · Post by **Blackfel** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:04 pm

The issue of copyright is very important, but there are ways to honor the copyright while still posting relevant information. How many of you had to write a report in High School (or your country's equivalent)? If you have ever had to write a term paper or a formal report, you know that the key to citing information is to use direct quotes and formal accreditation. A standard version is this:

From Warhammer Armies: Dark Elves, page 6; under the heading "The Dark Host":

"Many and varied are the highly skilled warriors of the Witch King. Master the arts of strategy and tactics so that you might better settle the bitter debt owed by the fallen Kin of Ulthuan. Unleash the fury of the Druchii upon your foes and be glad that you do Khaine's great work."

As long as you properly credit Games Workshop for the information, and tell people exactly where you got it, and most importantly(!) do NOT make a profit from it or attempt to make a profit from it, you are covered by copyright law.

Blackfel

Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:25 pm

as nagathi said: if you have a propblem with the locking of a thread then PM the one who locked it.

Drakken · Post by **Drakken** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:54 pm

Wow...so its a bad thing this is one of the most upstanding WHFB Forums around? Why?

Why is it bad there's a crack down on Spamming and Copyright Violation (especially since there's several places where it mentions both are illegal, and its standard rules on almost every forum)? Why is it bad to discourage behavoir against the rules? Especially since there's been a massive effort to ensure everyone knows said rules?

Evilzealot · Post by **Evilzealot** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:22 pm

I agree with Drakken, while you could consider it "up tight", our mods are really just doing whats right. Certain threads need to be locked like "can anyone fax me a codex?"-type-threads. This is probably the best site I have found for active Moderators and discussions (not to mention the discussions are almost always on topic), so you should put this award right beside this sites other awards

.

I thought it would be very ironic if this thread was locked, but perhaps farke wouldn't enjoy the irony...

Calapine · Post by **Calapine** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:31 pm

Well i have noticed this site is a bit more serious now than it was when i joined, but i can't say it bothers me, after all theres always the chat if you want to be goofy and stuff, in fact i've met some of the more "serious" d.net members on chat and their sound there, really easygoing.As for the copyright thing that does kinda confuse me, like if i wanted to post the rules for say alith anar (which for the record i don't) but as he no longer has rules in the current edition are the old obselete ones still a breach of copyright?. anyway yeah this site does have a kind of serious mentality but its also got a cool chat thingy, so i still love it.

Post by **Vorchild** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:36 pm

You are correct, we are a bit more businesslike that other places, and that sentiment has come up before. However, its not as bad as you make it out to be I think. At some levels, yes, its almost all business, but at others, its all just fun and games.

There are quite a number of locked topics in the rules forum, but don't take that the wrong way. It quite frequently happens that a second question will be asked in the topic or that someone will come out of nowhere with an incorrect answer they swear is right, and that really distracts from the question itself. Its just a lot more clear an effective if topics are locked once a question is answered correctly. Its nothing against the poster or those who responded - but rather is a bit of clarity. In that forum, posting a topic per question is almost the desired thing.

You suggestion has much merit, and I'm always trying to lighten the mood, but there is the fact that there is a lot of business that gets done around here, so that air is difficult to avoid.

Arquinsiel · Post by **Arquinsiel** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:47 pm

This is the most useful and generally pleasant forum to be a member of that I have so far managed to find anywhere. I fail to see any problem with it. Except for the obvious lack of intravenous access of course.

Cerulaetas · Post by **Cerulaetas** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:51 pm

I wouldn't say that Druchii.net is too uptight (and I'm the one getting my post locked

) the concerns are valid, and I wouldn't want to see this website getting taken down for a silly little violation.

Basically the only advice I can give to you Farke, if you want to avoid getting a topic locked, is read the Copyright Information rules before posting, and then, if there is any area that is unclear, ask a mod before posting. while it may seem kind of tedious, it's the most sure way of not having your post locked.

Farke · Post by **Farke** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:54 am

I have not gotten my threads locked. I do not divulge copyrighted material nor do I encourage anyone else to do so. I am merely pointing out the tremendous double standard that over timehas evolved on these forums. You go to any other highly acclaimed forums, like Portent, Warhammer.org.uk, or the old (and now, sadly defunct) WPS boards rules questions and arguments featuring direct quotes from the Red Tome and various army books are common and more than tolerated. Here, such threads are locked immedeately (unless they happen to be in the Tactics section, in which case they seem to be OK :roll:

Consistency? Throw it out the window.), and even the most harmless, innocent enquirer cannot feel safe. All these pointless, stupid rules prevent any from of intelligent discussion around a game we all love unless subterfuge is employed.

Post by **Vorchild** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:59 am

farke wrote:I have not gotten my threads locked. I do not divulge copyrighted material nor do I encourage anyone else to do so. I am merely pointing out the tremendous double standard that over timehas evolved on these forums. You go to any other highly acclaimed forums, like Portent, Warhammer.org.uk, or the old (and now, sadly defunct) WPS boards rules questions and arguments featuring direct quotes from the Red Tome and various army books are common and more than tolerated. Here, such threads are locked immedeately (unless they happen to be in the Tactics section, in which case they seem to be OK Consistency? Throw it out the window.), and even the most harmless, innocent enquirer cannot feel safe. All these pointless, stupid rules prevent any from of intelligent discussion around a game we all love unless subterfuge is employed.

I dispute those statements. What topics in particular are irking you? If its a controversial rules question, I've only ever seen the thing go on until such a time as it either drags on too much (in which case it just boils down to pointless bickering) or there is some sort of resolution. Don't think I've ever seen one of those locked. So I don't know where the double standard is. If you could please show my the posts to which you are referring, I can maybe help explain things to you.

Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:04 am

calapine wrote:like if i wanted to post the rules for say alith anar (which for the record i don't) but as he no longer has rules in the current edition are the old obselete ones still a breach of copyright?.

yupp that is a copyright infrigement.

Mtucache · Post by **Mtucache** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:09 pm

farke wrote:All these pointless, stupid rules prevent any from of intelligent discussion around a game we all love unless subterfuge is employed.

Hah.... laughable.

"Prevent any form of intelligent discussion"???? :shock:

Are you kidding me?

I have yet to see intelligent discussions on 90% of Warhammer Boards. The other sites you posted are obvious exceptions because of their size, but I defy you to claim that they are "better" or "more intelligent" than D.net. In fact, because of their size, and the incredible amount of bickering childern who gather there, I'd say this forum is much more useful, and has much more intelligent conversations than them.

For my time, I'd rather be here than anywhere else....

Calapine · Post by **Calapine** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:53 pm

yupp that is a copyright infrigement.

Thanks lins i knew you would know the answer to that.

As compareing D.net to other WH forums goes, the only one i really look at is portent, and although i like the site i've never joined it. i prefer the atmosphere here, although i could see how so many locked topics could be daunting to new members.As far as intellegent discussion goes well i'd say thats quite common here, even the more comical members are capable of it.

Post by **Icon hack** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:00 am

Vorchild wrote:What topics in particular are irking you? ... If you could please show me the posts to which you are referring, ...

Exactly.

Give some specific examples and maybe we can clarify things, but to just make a general statement like "I see this all the time..." without any specifics doesn't do much good. It can mean that you've seen it twice, or it can mean that you see every other thread falling into this category. If it's every other thread, then I agree, we need to clarify things better and maybe relax a little. If it's twice, then maybe we're not the ones that need to relax...

Falconius · Post by **Falconius** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:16 pm

I have to say I disagree entirely. From what I've seen this is one of the best forums I've seen on the net. People are helpful and generally polite, as seen be the sheer number of responses to your post here. But most important this site is very usefull, with inteligent disccusions on tactics, army formation and what have you. Quite frankly Im glad that GW is considering givein it a say in the book.

Noble korhedron · Post by **Noble korhedron** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:18 pm

Yeah.I agree with the original poster.I think it's a bit over the top.I mean, Shades is (c) GW Ltd, but you're obviously going to have to mention what you want to discuss. If it's a GW copyright, so what? No-one's making a profit off Druchii.net apart from whoever gets a share of the store's profits and the server's host.Noble Korhedron.

Post by **Sneaky** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 4:51 am

I'm really getting sick of people telling us that they don't like our forums. All of our mods are accessible and if you have a problem with what they do you're free to bring it up with them. Our mods are not as harsh as people seem to think; rather, they just keep the place clean and spam-free. The reason that we're so tight on it is because if we do not continually weed out spam and trite topics we eventually get an overflow of them (because they vastly outnumber the good threads) and the good threads choke and die, to use the weed analogue.

I've been on other boards where the mods do not control to the extent that they do here and I think that you guys don't fully understand what the consequences are if we do not act the way we do. Surf around some other boards and come back here. If you still have the complaints I'm more than willing to listen.

Cerulaetas · Post by **Cerulaetas** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:06 am

Alright, for all of you who are still beating my question about Shades to death, it has been resolved, and the Mods did act correctly concerning locking it. Now that we've gotten that out of the way, other examples would be helpful, because, we don't need anyone else complaining about that same thing (which happens to look like everyone's complaint here so far).

Chaos theory · Post by **Chaos theory** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:56 am

i agree with farke, and i'll be a little more specific.

there have been numerous times where someone asks a question about say, a magic item or something, and someone answers it. this is turn stimulates someone else to respond with maybe another comment or suggestion about how to use it. then, the topic is locked because the original question was answered, and the thread is now off topic because it isn't rules anymore its tactics or something.

now, i understand your reasoning, but i don't see the harm in keeping the thread open. this is how good discussion happens is when the main topic is diverted from, the thread actually goes somewhere, maybe not in the direction intended but maybe in a better direction.

you've said "well, make a new topic then" but i think this seriously detracts from the discussion when u start over again.

i think the uptightness may be contributing to the lacking of good threads of late. most posts are questions like "how do i beat..", "what good are ...?". Everyone answers, no one really cares after the 4th or 5th post. the thread dies.

anyway i think you should get off his back about it, he has a very very valid point and you are all getting defensive and snappy.

Sugacapra · Post by **Sugacapra** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 7:20 am

Guys,
please consider that druchii.net is almost the unique unofficial forum that have the "strenght of number" to be noticed by GW itself.
Obviusly we have some "detractor" someone who doesnt like this situation and he is one of them... let analyze this sentence:

I understand that the fear of divulging copyrighted material is because Druchii.net want's an official recognition by Games Workshop, or be allowed to participate in the making of the next Warhammer Armies: Dark Elves book. Well read my lips as I say: It ain't gonna to happen .

:-) this is just envy not else, let him think that this forum is not cool and that others RoCkSoHaRd cause you can see the copyrighted rules...

This is the best forum i ever seen in internet that talk about druchii, and maybe he is one of the best that talk about warhammer things.

The forum can't be loved by all, like all the "elves" are not all Druchii, all the players cannot love this one.

:-)

to mods: continue to stray this path, this is the real path to glory for the druchii... and i'll follow your steps everytime.

look back and see what this site done:
we have the revision!
we have the Cultist list!
we have the new magic items!
we have vision in WD!
we have infiltrated guys on GW HQ (EHEHE) and if they do the asurian too strong some heads will roll easy on the ground...
:-)

...

p.s.
take it easy! it's a game of little puppets!

Mtucache · Post by **Mtucache** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:31 pm

Holy Crap... ChaosTheory get my vote for "Necromancer of the Year" for reviving this decrepit topic from the bottom of the barrel.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.... go somewhere else. If you're not happy with the current situation at D.net, spend your time somewhere else. Simple as that.

As for the lack of quality topics as of late... I think that some of the members who have now been around for a while are just seeing the same old garbage that we've always seen, but now they're recognizing it as a repeat topic. When you first started the "How do I beat Lizardmen?" topic was fresh and interesting, but for the rest of us it was just yet another topic in the pool of repeat topics.

Now, with so many of the older, veteran members being fed up with the huge amount of recycled topics, a lot of them are just left to fester while the other newer members flounder around discussing things we've already talked about a hundred times. If you're looking to get some of the top, veteran posters involved in a discussion now, it's going to have to be something new and fresh... otherwise they're just busy cranking out stuff for the monthly.

Sha'a'alaar · Post by **Sha'a'alaar** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:53 pm

@farke - Maybe it is! But it is also one of the (if not THE) best sites on the web. Personally I'm thankful that there is such a great site for Dark Elf players and can easily put up with a few niggles (though I've never come across any action by a moderator that wasn't reasonable and understandable).

I'd rather see some control than put up with (more) spam and juvenile drivel, espcially if poor behaviour could end up with the site being forced to shut down.

All in all we (the general users) probably don't consider what a good and thankless task the mods do!! So, a big thank you to all you mods.

Sha'a'alaar