Slow Decay of Druchii.net

Throw your ideas for Druchii.net around in here...

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Are Druchii.net's best days behind it?

Poll ended at Sat Oct 15, 2005 9:15 pm

 
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Asperon thorn
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Post by Asperon thorn »

/\\// wrote:
langmann wrote:Well its not the fault of Team Shenanigans if their threads fill up. Its the fault of everyone else really for not looking at the other army lists. Its not like Team Shenanigans can mind control people into only looking at their battlelists.

The reason people look at the TS lists is mostly because they're lists done by exceptional players!


I know it's not their fault, however I do get the impression that many of the newer users feel shunned from these posts. If you look at a lot of these posts it appears to be solely veterans discussing the lists while new player steer clear. On several occaision I've seen the veterans explain to the newer players (quite rightly usually) why the advice they have given, while appreciated, is inferior to their own ideas and this can't be good for new players' self esteem.

I'm not saying the vets are at fault for this but I can see why many other people on this site can sense elitism within the site and that new players can be discouraged by this.


I have actually noticed this. Rather than "Your post is spam post something constructive or with reasons or don't post at all." a response to the like of "You say the list is too slow but it has xyz. . .Could you perhaps explain what you mean?" would be better.

Inviting newer posters to actually expand on thier ideas rather than coming down on them for posting something that they mistakenly thought as adequate. First it makes it a friendlier environment, and secondly it helps to increase the quality of the posts.

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Post by Langmann »

Asperon Thorn wrote:
/\\// wrote:
langmann wrote:Well its not the fault of Team Shenanigans if their threads fill up. Its the fault of everyone else really for not looking at the other army lists. Its not like Team Shenanigans can mind control people into only looking at their battlelists.

The reason people look at the TS lists is mostly because they're lists done by exceptional players!


I know it's not their fault, however I do get the impression that many of the newer users feel shunned from these posts. If you look at a lot of these posts it appears to be solely veterans discussing the lists while new player steer clear. On several occaision I've seen the veterans explain to the newer players (quite rightly usually) why the advice they have given, while appreciated, is inferior to their own ideas and this can't be good for new players' self esteem.

I'm not saying the vets are at fault for this but I can see why many other people on this site can sense elitism within the site and that new players can be discouraged by this.


I have actually noticed this. Rather than "Your post is spam post something constructive or with reasons or don't post at all." a response to the like of "You say the list is too slow but it has xyz. . .Could you perhaps explain what you mean?" would be better.

Inviting newer posters to actually expand on thier ideas rather than coming down on them for posting something that they mistakenly thought as adequate. First it makes it a friendlier environment, and secondly it helps to increase the quality of the posts.

Asperon Thorn


I have always advocated this.
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Post by Asperon thorn »

Yeah, I know. But I think we need to come down harder on veterans that don't. Rather than leaving the "n00bs" with the impression that the site is supporting the older "wiser" posters.

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Post by Xizor »

Hey,

What is frustrating me ALOT at the moment is how certain members are allowed to intentionally wind up everyone and when people reply back to it they get silly little "telling off" PM's - its starting to make me wonder what the point is.

If the mods allow this sort of behaviour in newer members, what does that say about the sites future?

I now dont know where I should or shouldnt post, for fear of more PM's from mods! I once thought I could one day become a mod here, as a regular poster of (mostly) good content...now I know this isnt going to happen, as obviously my opinion of disciplining blantent touble makers is different.

Also, on the Shenanigans debate, I cant really comment as Im not really a proper member, but still, I think some of the comments on here have been a bit silly. In the Druchii army list forum atm there NO active TS threads, and in the lesser races list forum there are are maximum of around 5 TS threads currently being posted in - hardly "dominating"....
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Post by Asperon thorn »

Well that's the fine line between a "n00b" that is trolling. And new guy that doesn't realize that one liners aren't appreciated.

The first you need to encourage the poster to stop and try to be constructive. Bragging, arguing in a way that doesn't address the points discussed, and derailing topics, is not considered constructive.

The second you need to try and encourage the poster to open up. By gently explaining that in order for thier opinions to be taken seriously they need to explain them more thoroughly.

Two Maxims that I often repeat on another board are:

We read the quality of the posts. A single well-written response will carry a lot more weight than a less thorough response with 6 people saying "I agree."

This is a forum. On a forum we discuss and debate ideas not posters. Your issue is with what was said not the person that said it.


And while I freely admit there are posters on every board that I see and think "Oh, god what did THAT guy have to say now." (I am only mortal after all I am bound to develop some biases) I always find that the quality of boards improve if people look at the post before the look at who wrote it.

As for specifically addressing the Team Shenanigans debate. That unfortunately is something that will go on regardless. It is a group of people that are very good players, post often, and always provide a new insight to current tactics. They base thier lists by pushing the envelope of accepted tactics, which is why people tend to read them. But most importantly, while they are doing that, they very patiently answer questions and provide explanations as to why they make the lists they do, and what tactics they are using. And at the risk of sounding like I am kissing arse, I find that kind of veteran posting the most valuable. While my lists tend to be extremely different from the one's they use, I have found a lot of the tactics they use very useful for my armies.

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Post by Dictator »

And while I freely admit there are posters on every board that I see and think "Oh, god what did THAT guy have to say now." (I am only mortal after all I am bound to develop some biases) I always find that the quality of boards improve if people look at the post before the look at who wrote it.

I hope that ain't me! :(

As for specifically addressing the Team Shenanigans debate. That unfortunately is something that will go on regardless. It is a group of people that are very good players, post often, and always provide a new insight to current tactics. They base thier lists by pushing the envelope of accepted tactics, which is why people tend to read them. But most importantly, while they are doing that, they very patiently answer questions and provide explanations as to why they make the lists they do, and what tactics they are using. And at the risk of sounding like I am kissing arse, I find that kind of veteran posting the most valuable. While my lists tend to be extremely different from the one's they use, I have found a lot of the tactics they use very useful for my armies

As for Asper Thorn: I completely agree. It would seem that at the moment they have been given what needs to be given to them. That is a lot of attention. Just because they are the only ones that seem to be attracting attention does not mean we should harrass them because they are pushing the limits like Asper suggested.

I do like previous comments as well. I would like to think that we are all working towards helping the n00bs out because I don't think a "Brotherhood of the Cincinnatus," is called for just yet ;) A harsh word to them won't at all expand the game or the gamer it will only help to hurt what this forum is for: that is for the exchange of ideas amongst individuals.
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Post by Teifion »

Asperon Thorn wrote:I have actually noticed this. Rather than "Your post is spam post something constructive or with reasons or don't post at all." a response to the like of "You say the list is too slow but it has xyz. . .Could you perhaps explain what you mean?" would be better.

Inviting newer posters to actually expand on thier ideas rather than coming down on them for posting something that they mistakenly thought as adequate. First it makes it a friendlier environment, and secondly it helps to increase the quality of the posts.


Simply read 'How to Win Friends and Influence People', you'll see that it is common sense.

My idea for how the site can 'enlarge' (other than what Asperon Thorn said) would be to create something different. The Flesh and Blood campaign is good, but it could be better, it needs to be able to draw in people from other teams. Anybody who talks about 'the glory days' will probably realise that over half of the posters played other armies first, heck, I have never played Druchii except for once or twice.

To sum it up - The answer lies in people not on the site already
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Post by Sha'a'alaar »

A few days have passed since I originally replied to this and I have had another thought or two (using up my annual quota!).

The introduction of the lesser races and 40k section have allowed the number of discussions to grow with a dilution of "serious" participants. Take, for example, the current threads about ogres. There is some good stuff happening there (the type of thing we are used to for DEs alone).

So, what's my point? Just that there is still the quality of membership and debate, it is just spread over a wider canvas.

cheers

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Post by Zentaricai »

Man,did I kick over a beehive--well that's just me, and I hope the wiser posters can see the reasoning behind it.

Couple things that have popped from my casual purusal of the thread:

1 Druchii.net should not be a re-active community but a proactive one--especially with all the talent floating around here....so, waiting for 7th edition, new DE, bla, bla, bla...Is not going to sustain this site through down times at GW. I think the lesser races forum was an evolution and a great idea by whoever thought of it. CONGRTATS. I try my best to respond to evey "respondable" post concerning armies I'm familar with. I think we should embrace more races---you guys all have more armies. Let;s talk more BoC, DoW,VC's, TK, and any other somewhat less popular lists--its' fun, may re-kindle some interest. Imagine applying some of the brilliant DE discussions to making a little played list better??Could be fun

2 TS. Let's face it, there are snobs on this website and there are a FEW, not all, on TS that we all know about (embracing there perceived elitest status) and not being shy about it.
It would surprise a lot of the DE community that I have personnaly heard from many well known "B" posters out there (just before the crash) that have just got sick of all the elitestness... of not just certin TS memebers but other well known blow-hards out there. So take this finger poitning from me as a learning opportunity...for all you eleitest out there--and you know who you are...lighten up a bit, and protect the site from being 10-12 guys telling eachother how smart they are...

3. VC are superior to Dark Elves in every aspect of the game (discuss !lol! )

{Mod edit - langmann }

5, Ok, I'm off to the gym to try and figure out away to take down TS while sweating it out on the treadmill!
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Post by Nagathi »

1. I think it was Dark Alliance who made the lesser forums, and the decision was made by the entire Admin team.

2. Allow noob questions, don't bring down the wrath. Let each new player/poster post his questions so that the other new posters/players can answer this, just as people onec did to me. It's all about allowing this shift of generations to continue.

3. I'd agree if it weren't for the 3-0-0 record that I hold against my friend's VC...

4. The mod team will ask aspiring people if they would like to be mods, but only when there are positions to fill. People askin to be mods are often secretly laughed at :p


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Post by The_nightlord »

If you happened to notice, this thread is a prime example of experts debating :p.

But now a noob has something to say.

I have always been afraid to post on Topics about army lists, there is always someone correcting me (which is good if i've done something wrong), and i'm afraid that my posts are "bad" advice.

The lesser races forum is great, i collect DE, chaos and Ogres and i really enjoyed the topic about Ogres, and also the one about Chaos Warriors.
Diversity is great! Let's not make D.net a one army forum!

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Post by Asperon thorn »

I have always been afraid to post on Topics about army lists, there is always someone correcting me (which is good if i've done something wrong), and i'm afraid that my posts are "bad" advice.


Well my advice, is never let veterans put you off from giving advice. In fact if you are corrected, because you DID give bad advice, simply post that. "You know Veteran X made much better points, and not only would I take his advice over mine, but I plan on changing my own army based on that."

But as a nearly 20 year-old Veteran of my true Passion (Bloodbowl - small plug, great game, you should all play it.) I still give bad advice on occasion, and even mess up rules answers. It's become a running joke amongst the other Veterans. But I still don't let that stop me from giving my sometimes lame advice.

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Post by Lloyba »

i've been at the same situation as nightlord sadi, afraid of giving inferior advice. but i'm starting to become a bit more courageous and i try to give my advice to people who i thinki could get something out of it.

imho the point about n00bs asking all the same questions over and over again was good. maybe it's annoying if it comes up every 2 days, but let's face it; there will always be n00bs and just because some of us have already learned those tricks isn't a reason to not to help and give advice to those people. there will be new people starting druchii way before 7th ed. and the new book comes out and this site should be the palce to get tips and advice on those things. this site will be kept alive even by those newbies, like it or not. were this source of advice, ideas and isnpiration be taken away, the #1. site for the druchii and so much else would be taken away. so let's not let that happen. imho this site has yet to see it's glory days, considering of all the things this hobby will offer during the coming years.

just my opinions and thoughts on the subject
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Post by Lethalis »

The key to giving advice is thinking about it.

*nods in agreement*

Right, clarification; an army list is based on choices. Literally of course, since you choose each unit/character, but apart from that there's usually a thought behind that choice. It can be anything from good models to certain special rules they might have, and this is all together linked up in one army.

Now, if you spot something that you don't understand or you think a reasoning is odd, ask! Point it out, ask, question them if you have to. It's not that they're holding state secrets or something, and by posting an army list someone ought to be able to explain each choice, why he/she chose it and why it is better or fits better than other choices.

The trick is not to say "use unit X instead of Y cause omf it r0xxorz!!1!" but "I prefer unit X over Y, because of A and B". Give a reasoning. Veterans get annoyed when someone tells them their army list can be improved, but fail to give any reasons and so cannot convince them. If you give reasons, experiences, something, they can discuss those with you and you might learn a thing or two ;)

Now, I took army lists as example but this goes for everything, really. Think before you post.
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Post by Maaksel »

i don't think its going to die out, but that long down time i think made people forget about this site.

It'll never go down tho, because I'm here! WOOO!
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Post by Langmann »

Nagathi wrote:4. The mod team will ask aspiring people if they would like to be mods, but only when there are positions to fill. People askin to be mods are often secretly laughed at :p


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Let me clear up some things.

First of all the above is NOT TRUE. I have actually found that most people who have asked to be mods have been genuinely interested in this site as well as giving back to this site. Moreover rarely do people ask to be moderators. In fact it would make our jobs as admins a little easier if people would ask if they could be a moderator.

In addition we have some moderator positions coming up and so I am going to ask people to volunteer with this caveat: if we don't choose you its not because we think you would not make a good moderator. Quite often we do like to put people as moderators of forums they are actually interested in. Please be patient, honest, and mature.

The three forums are Ideas, Tactics and Trading forum. Please see the announcement to nominate people or nominate yourself. DO NOT SEND ME PM's with nominations. DO NOT write your nominations here. Following these instructions will be part of your test! ;)

Secondly, please everyone calm down. You know who you are.
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Post by Danceman »

indeed, postcount does not mean veteran so these noobs wanting to mods might be very responseble and/or excellent generals.

and i agree, some people here on d.net need to understand even if you are an excellent general and you are proud member of whatever doesnt give you the right to be an arrogant prick. The Elitists attitude of these people make me wanna throw up... its only a very few people so if you havent run over newbies who didnt say what your highness expected be calm :)

but overall, yes i believe the best days of D.net is behind it, however a new campaign might poke things in the right direction.

cheers dancey
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Post by The7thshade »

I have just become aware of this thread and I'd just like to say that I sincerely hope all the veterans of D.net will not be disheartened by the slow posting in the autumn months, which are notorious for hectic altering of scheduling and free time.

When I first joined the site during the SoC, I found it to be the most amazing thing for warhammer. Hands down the best tactics site I'd seen for dark elves and not too shabby for getting tactics advice for other races. Just being able to observe the discussions around here improved my hobby experience dramatically.

The things that I have been most impressed with are the tactics section, the battle reports section, the Monthly (which I really hope will be revived) and the Flesh and Blood campaign. The latter two initiatives were amazing and good for the hobby. Finally, something well-organized and fun for druchii players, and we don't have to wait around forever for GW to do something for us.

I think organizing another storyline rich campaign game like the War of Flesh and Blood would revitalize the community instantly. If GW is too busy selling their LotR game, then let's tell our own druchii tale.
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Post by Nagathi »

The7thShade wrote:The things that I have been most impressed with are the tactics section, the battle reports section, the Monthly (which I really hope will be revived)

The Monthly will be revived, in a new form. We're working on it. Expect new stuff after X-Mas...


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Re: Slow Decay of Druchii.net

Post by Dalakh deathblow »

Zentaricai wrote:Druchii Tactics: really haven't seen any real interesting topics since Ash's chain link nobles...


one example of why you might think D.net is decaying.. this idea is totally briliant! not everyday someone can have such idea you see..
one thing : only D.net give a quick and correct reply to rules questions.. no disrespect to other forums, but sometimes their members answers on rules questions makes me go :roll: or :lol:[/b]
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Post by Gibious »

it may be slowing down but druchii.net has never colapsed or shrunk to bearly nuthin before and will not in the near future.

There just havent been another site that has had as much interest/impact compared to druchii period.

ive been here since the revision was posted (how i came noticed of this site) and it was not that much better than right now

soc added some more interest with the cos as it brung more players to the druchii world but it wasnt affecting everyone it was more an army that was just there and you didnt have to play it :- thus druchii was halved

all im waiting for is for the new dark elves/next big thing that involves druchii as a whole and this site will back to top speed

in relation to the web crash:
if you were a very fast driver and felt pretty happy with your life. Once you crash in a life threatening accident you would be takin your time before increasing your speed again
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Post by Shadowrune »

Gibious wrote:in relation to the web crash:
if you were a very fast driver and felt pretty happy with your life. Once you crash in a life threatening accident you would be takin your time before increasing your speed again


Not only the hardware did crash, the motivation did suffer here as well.
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Post by Ardent sinner »

Maybe a Mission Statement of sorts is in order. Some link on the front page that quickly describes what Druchii.net is for, how we like to do things and how we stay away from the path of becoming like the GW Forums.

example: Here at Druchii.net we strive to keep a highly informative atmosphere alive for mature people to freely bounce their ideas off of each other without fear of a flamed response.

In order to keep this atmosphere from falling into the GW forum wasteland we need a common goal of ongoing friendliness and helpfull flame-free discussions.

We like to see the type of posts/replies here that are unopinionated as possible that will only inform, educate, inspire anyone who reads it. A good way to start is to explain why for any change that you may suggest. (example: I think dropping that unit of Dark Riders would be a good idea because ...)

There are 1001 ways to go about any army so if you are going for a certain feel/theme/style/approach/fluff with an army you could state so before you post. That way readers know exactly what you are trying to do and not have to assume what you are really going for. If he wants to make a fluffy army that won't be able to beat up my grandmother, let him. But if you can HELP by replying in a way that won't differ him from his intended goal.

That way every army list won't end up being the same list as the other guy's.

I dunno.... The members here are in the thousands and reaching all of them is a task indeed.
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Post by Belial »

My oppoinion: Yes, d.net is decaying.
when I first got in here, I could answer 10 or 12 threads a day(I'm not good at the rules, armyliststs, and I'm a shitty painter, so some of the forums were kinda off.limits). These days, its down to 1 or 2.

I think the... erm... interesting threads are starting to cease. Dont know why.
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Post by Darthie »

LordBelial wrote:when I first got in here, I could answer 10 or 12 threads a day(I'm not good at the rules, armyliststs, and I'm a shitty painter, so some of the forums were kinda off.limits). These days, its down to 1 or 2.

I think the... erm... interesting threads are starting to cease. Dont know why.


I think one of the reasons for this might be the "no necromancy" rule here.
Times ago I liked to share what I know - which is mostly on the modeling side of the hobby. But after having seen literally hundreds of topics come and go concerning "how do you do snow bases" or "what to do if superglue fails?" or any other topic, I'm tired of answering, even by copying and pasting my own replies to earlier, similar threads.
The same questions reappear all the time, that's natural. But seeing all the same topics again and again starts to get boring. Is it too much asked for to use the search function?!

Despite all that, I'm still regularly looking for news here. And I still find them here, by new pics, which I use as inspiration. Perhaps the quality of the discussions will increase once the game is overdone...
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