Welcome posts and age

[Gnosis]

I have lately been frowning at the faulty spelling and general disregard to the FAQ's, Stickies and Announcements. While there is little we can do to it directly, I think that implementing the age of the poster into their profile would be a good move towards a better communication.

Also, the clutter created by the "Hi, I'm new" topics could easily be sidestepped by adding one stickie in which all new members can introduce themselves.

[Lethalis]

I think that implementing the age of the poster into their profile would be a good move towards a better communication.

Trouble is, not everyone feels comfortable with revealing his/her age on the net.

Also, the clutter created by the "Hi, I'm new" topics could easily be sidestepped by adding one stickie in which all new members can introduce themselves.

What makes you think the new people read the stickies?

[Rork]

Well, I had Azure pm me saying he was re-reading the FAQs.

re-reading!

Follow that example!

There's hope out there.

I hope.

[Ilokir lúinwë]

implementing the age of the poster into their profile would be a good move towards a better communication.

I agree on this one. It gives you an idea who you're talking to. For people who don't want to reveal their age; no problem. there are several people who don't share their location either.

[Gnosis]

Well, I had Azure pm me saying he was re-reading the FAQs.

re-reading!

Follow that example!

There's hope out there.

I hope.

If only I shared that hope. Apparently, the deterioration of this site's quality has less to do with important members leaving due to the downtime, and more with the appalling quantity of new members oblivious to good spelling and sensible post content.

@ Lethalis: I would include it as an option, not a requirement. And regarding the welcome stickie: posting in a stickie is different from reading a stickie.

[Ansob.]

What makes you think the new people read the stickies?

Threat. Every other board I know does the following: the thread/post isn't in compliance with the FAQ/stickies? Lock/delete and warn the poster. Repeat-offenders are banned without question.

In other words, make it very clear that there will be negative consequences if people don't read the FAQ/stickies. In the case of welcome threads, mercilessly lock any one that appears (if a welcome sticky exists).

[Happy corsair]

As a youth worker, I'd like to go on record stating that, in Western culture, society discriminates against young people on the basis of age enough.

If you (a generic "you", not singling anyone out) were to see someone's low age before reading their post, your opinion of what they say might already be coloured negative. Also, if you were to see something that you thought to be trivial or inane, then spied what you deemed to be a low age, you would psychologically allow that to become further "evidence", justifying your already-existing bias against young people - that what they say isn't worth your time.

In regards to poor spelling, I ask: is it only young people who spell poorly? What about middle-aged adults who left school early to get a trade, as was the done thing when they were young? What about people with learning difficulties? Not being able to spell is often embarrassing enough without people pointing it out and using it as a reason of exclusion. Is poor spelling really that big of a problem? One can usually figure out what someone means after a brief pondering. If you still can't figure it out, I guess that person just might not be understood entirely by everyone else. Which is unfortunate but I don't know if it is actively anyone's fault.

I notice that a lot of users are from countries where English is not the national language. Anyone who has learnt to speak a second or third language will appreciate that it is no easy task. If this thread were in German and not English, I'd be making a fool of myself left, right and centre. The fact that people from such backgrounds are brave enough to venture on to an English-dominated site is something I think should be commended and encouraged.

I empathise with the frustration of the veteran members who struggle with the asking and re-asking of the same questions, hence the existance of the FAQ place to begin with. If there is some automated "welcome" PM or email, perhaps encouragement and a link for new members to read the FAQ before they start posting?

I think it'd be far more constructive to focus on what unites us - a love for games, fantasy, modelling and the Dark Elf Army - and not what is perceived to divide us, such as spelling and the age of a poster. Do people respond better to community-focused encouragement and guidelines than threat and heavy-handed moderation? Is this website welcome and inclusive to new members or somewhat an eletist's club for the old hands? No accusations there, just some rhetorical questions.

I realise that I'm a n00b in terms of post-count, if not time of joining and that I'm not a mover-and-shaker in terms of this board. But I hope what I occasionally rant is helpful. I won't state my age but I dare people to guess.

Kind regards,
HC.

[Rork]

People don't need perfect spelling, but people should learn not to write a post like a text message.

"I think that sux 2, k thx, bye" is a travesty of the English language (and several derivatives, too). Taking a little extra time to write a proper sentence will mean that people will at least think you're genuinely contributing to a thread.

Spelling errors and semi-colon misuse aren't going to result in someone getting screamed at, nor if your first language isn't English.

[Happy corsair]

No worries, that's fair enough. Just doing a bit of thought probing.

If the Powers that Be of this here site, or indeed, a consensus of the members, decided that no txt msg liek posts would be allowed - then that'd be a bona fide regulation that new members could be made to agree to upon joining.

I'm just wondering whether it needs any action in the first place. Granted, I'm not a Mod or Admin - I don't even come here that much, so I'm probably not as frustrated as many others. But I wonder - if people who use SMSese in posts already don't command the respect that their slightly more coherent peers do, are they doing any real damage to the site, or just to their own credibility? Do they not "shoot themselves in the foot"?

Now that I've played Devil's Advocate, I'll confess that I too can't stand the SMSesque posts we're discussing.

Cheers,
HC.

[Ansob.]

Granted, I'm not a Mod or Admin

I'm going to tell you something, HC, and it's this: the reason why I can reliably claim (and think, more importantly) that that doesn't matter is because you type your posts out properly. It may seem like something stupid to say, but believe me, it warms my heart to see someone other than certain of the regulars capable of using capitals and punctuation.

That said, I agree with you that the age thing isn't needed. It would indeed lead to discrimination - and I'll add that a fifteen year old is perfectly capable of adding more to a conversation about an army he's been playing for a year than a twenty year old who hasn't played it or even the system it's a part of.

As my response to your spelling indicates, I have had more than enough of the people who post "kthxbai" messages. I also urge for a new law, forbidding chatspeak. if you want to use chatspeak, go to the chat; on a forum, we expect intelligent conversation, and more importantly, we expect people's posts to reflect the time they have available to think and type out their answers, given the way a forum works. Every one of the important French forums have such laws, and they're much better off for it.

I'm not demanding perfect grammar (okay, I would if I could, but I know that's way beyond some people). I just don't want to have to spend five minutes decyphering a post because some stupid kiddie couldn't take the time needed to type the vowels in a six-letter word.

[Happy corsair]

I'm going to tell you something, HC, and it's this: the reason why I can reliably claim (and think, more importantly) that that doesn't matter is because you type your posts out properly. It may seem like something stupid to say, but believe me, it warms my heart to see someone other than certain of the regulars capable of using capitals and punctuation.

Thanks for the compliment and I'm glad that your heart is so easily warmed!

As my response to your spelling indicates, I have had more than enough of the people who post "kthxbai" messages. I also urge for a new law, forbidding chatspeak. if you want to use chatspeak, go to the chat; on a forum, we expect intelligent conversation, and more importantly, we expect people's posts to reflect the time they have available to think and type out their answers, given the way a forum works.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

I'm not demanding perfect grammar (okay, I would if I could, but I know that's way beyond some people). I just don't want to have to spend five minutes decyphering a post because some stupid kiddie couldn't take the time needed to type the vowels in a six-letter word.

Again, fair enough. Being a Frenchman I'm sure you have a healthy love and respect for vowels.

If that's the feeling of a fair constituency of the users, especially the Mods and Admins, then for sure, take some kind of action and write a clause into the joining agreement or equivalent. A club (or forum) gets to define by which rules its members shall be members and people can decide whether they want to join it or not based on those rules verses the advantages. Comperable to dress codes in sports clubs and so on.

That being said, many of the people who are being discussed here may be new to forums where people use reasonable levels of actual languages and may well come from chat and instant messenger backgrounds whereby the self-imposed Newspeak is more appropriate. Just thinking out loud here, is there room for some kind of tutorial or sticky to the effect of "How to write a post", or perhaps the more drastic step of using the PhpBB's inbuilt auto-censor to change "kthnxbai" to "Okay. Thank you. Goodbye." and the like?

Thanks for the positive dialogue! Maybe it's steps like these that'll encourage people to move out of "chatspeak" and into actual communication.

HC.

[Ansob.]

or perhaps the more drastic step of using the PhpBB's inbuilt auto-censor to change "kthnxbai" to "Okay. Thank you. Goodbye." and the like?

Excuse me if I laugh, but that's just funny - that would involve hours of trying to figure out which words to add to the filter, and I can tell you for sure than none of the admins or mods feel like doing it (we're lazy gits ).

The "How to write a post" sticky is definitely something that will be done, but I'd like to wait until a decision is reached concerning a new edict.

And I'm glad some people appear to still have two hands (as opposed to writing with their nose, or the stumps they have instead of their hands ).

[Sotek]

Well, I think people who don't understand english that good will have a hard time figuring out what you just said

But seriously, I am against people using chatspeak, but you must be aware of the fact that some people (including me) sometimes don't understand a word of what you are saying, mostly because you are using difficult words, when you could also say the same thing in understandable english.

But there could also be a situation where someone doesn't understand what you say, simply because you don't use the correct grammar or make a lot of typing errors.

I can, for example, understand a text pretty good (although I have some problems with difficult words... but most of the time, you can guess the meaning), but I can't speak english very good; so others might have trouble to understand what I said, because it's my 'fault'. But sometimes I can't understand what somebody else said, because it's just too hard to read for some people, so it's their 'fault'
(I said fault, but it isn't wrong; but you get the point I hope)

Sotek

[Ansob.]

As I said, I'm not asking people to be walking dictionaries (otherwise I wouldn't be able to dominate them with my mastery of the English language ) or to type perfectly. All I want is an end to chatspeak for the reasons mentioned above. There's also no harm whatsoever in asking someone to rephrase what they said or explain it because you didn't understand.

[Sotek]

As I said, I'm not asking people to be walking dictionaries (otherwise I wouldn't be able to dominate them with my mastery of the English language )

You could become a dictator and obligate everyone to study the dictionary

There's also no harm whatsoever in asking someone to rephrase what they said or explain it because you didn't understand.

I think it's getting pretty annoying when you have to rephrase everthing you say, so you could get mad at someone, when you could just 'rephrase' it at the beginning. I'm not here to insult people, I'm here to help mankind( )...

Sotek

[Belial]

Threat. Every other board I know does the following: the thread/post isn't in compliance with the FAQ/stickies? Lock/delete and warn the poster. Repeat-offenders are banned without question.

In other words, make it very clear that there will be negative consequences if people don't read the FAQ/stickies. In the case of welcome threads, mercilessly lock any one that appears (if a welcome sticky exists).

I know I sound a bit drastic here, but I'd feel such "penalties" would make d.net seem like a dictatorship... Really, does the welcome posts hurt you that much? Does it really, honestly, annoy your guts out when someone asks a question already asked? Such questions are easy to answer, and if you dont wanna helt the asker, ignore the thread. Welcome posts? I, for one, think they are... cozy...

[Azure]

Normal Azure Talk: whats up guys, i kinda agree w/ yall with the age thing but idk... it may make people look down on the young uns even if they know what they are talking bout


New and Improved Azure Talk: Hello all. I am leaning towards agreeing with the age post but it must be optional. Also it may increase the amount of people not taking the younger players advice (which is being done to an extent via the post count!)

Azure

p.s. I for one have found that I read all the FAQ's when I first joined the site but then never read them again. New FAQ's and stickies are added to and newly formed daily so I believe we need to enact a serious read the FAQ law. Ask a question more then twice that is in a FAQ, permantly banned (and record the ip so that if they remake an acount but then dont read the FAQ's still, then you can ban the i.p.

[Ansob.]

I know I sound a bit drastic here, but I'd feel such "penalties" would make d.net seem like a dictatorship... Really, does the welcome posts hurt you that much?

My comment applied to any breech of the forum rules, and the bit about locking welcome threads only applies in the event that we make a welcome sticky and mention it in the FAQ.

Normal Azure Talk: whats up guys, i kinda agree w/ yall with the age thing but idk... it may make people look down on the young uns even if they know what they are talking bout


New and Improved Azure Talk: Hello all. I am leaning towards agreeing with the age post but it must be optional. Also it may increase the amount of people not taking the younger players advice (which is being done to an extent via the post count!)

Not that drastically (though I don't mind reading the new and improved one). What I want out is all the "wut up i kinda agree w/ u but it may make ppl look down on the yng 1s even if they know wut there talkin abt," in favour of anything from "Hey people - I more or less agree with you, but..." to "heya people, i kinda agree with you but..." I'm not asking that capitals and such be maid mandatory; I just want punctuation and words that are typed out fully to be so. Also, note that the typo shouldn't be a crime punishable by death.

p.s. I for one have found that I read all the FAQ's when I first joined the site but then never read them again. New FAQ's and stickies are added to and newly formed daily so I believe we need to enact a serious read the FAQ law. Ask a question more then twice that is in a FAQ, permantly banned (and record the ip so that if they remake an acount but then dont read the FAQ's still, then you can ban the i.p.

Permanently banned, no, but a serious otherwise sanction, yes. In any case, every update to the FAQs should be made an Announcement and seen on the main page. You can't expect people to be aware of new rules and follow them if they aren't told that the rules have been added.

[Ansob.]

LB?

Pictures.
In.
Threads.

Somebody's already reported your post, I see. Step forward, forum member, and receive a medal for most honorary forum service!

And that was total spam, LB. If you don't have anything constructive to add to a debate, don't say anything.

[Lethalis]

Somebody's already reported your post, I see. Step forward, forum member, and receive a medal for most honorary forum service!

I just reported the post because of the picture... ?

I disagree on the spam part, the

Seriously though, I think <snip> we scare people away?

part did contribute to the discussion, and I think I even agree with that. D.net should above all remain user friendly which means not a small group of regulars like your honorary (;)) self. Not until you've become admin will I change my view on that

[Ansob.]

I just reported the post because of the picture... ?

Well, someone reported it. Here, have a medal anyway.

Spam, or a useless post, off-topic too. See, take a ruler, then measure the height of the useful part, and measure the height of the useless part. Which one's higher?

[Cerulaetas]

I have lately been frowning at the faulty spelling and general disregard to the FAQ's, Stickies and Announcements. While there is little we can do to it directly, I think that implementing the age of the poster into their profile would be a good move towards a better communication.

How is implementing the age of the poster in their profile/sidebar going to make them read the stickies/faqs? It will do nothing but alienate new members, and possibly old members as well, because you're giving another statistic upon which discrimination can be placed.

How would knowing a person's age allow you to communicate with them better? Are you purposefully going to be condescending to anyone under a certain age, simply because they are of that age, rather than being always respectful as you ought to be? And if you want to say that you shouldn't have to be respectful because the n00bies are being stupid and not reading the FAQs, then that's being quite irresponsible on your part, because it is up to you (and other well established members of the site) to be good role models for the newer members of the site.

If I were given a say in the matter, I would say that the FAQs and Stickies should be linked to on the front page of Druchii.net. My reasoning behind this is that many people (myself included for a time) will, rather than browsing the forum, simply watch to see what topics are scrolling by in the "most recent topics" scroller. If copies of the stickies/FAQs were compiled into a sort of mini-forum (much like the Hall of Fame forum) and linked to on the front page, it would make them much more accessible. Perhaps put the link right above the scroller. Just a thought.

[Lethalis]

...

Again I have to disagree. It does contain a useful part (as you say), so who cares about the useless part. Heck, it made me laugh. That would make your signature spam too

Bah, how old are you?

[Osmiusvorn]

I agree. The "chat" talk should be kept in the chat and when posting you should at least try to write a readable post. Even though my own language isn't english and I lack in some parts of it still I try to write in an understandable way. Sometimes I use the wrong words etc etc but still everyone should try. Reading your own post before you actually post it is a really good tip. You spot many misspellings that way.

And also if you reply on a post you really should read it before! Beginning to end. And not reply somethings that been said two times already. Now that's annoying. If you agree with someone of course speak up, but do not point out that that 8 arcane items is illegal for the seventh time...

[Happy corsair]

Excuse me if I laugh, but that's just funny - that would involve hours of trying to figure out which words to add to the filter, and I can tell you for sure than none of the admins or mods feel like doing it (we're lazy gits ).

Laugh away, friend! At the end of the day that's all I'm good for. I guess I'm spoilt because on my home forum we have a Geek who'd absolutely love to spend hours typing in various combinations of "chatspeak" and producing an auto-correct database. You should see what happens (in terms of auto-censor) when someone types the "f"-word.

But seriously, I am against people using chatspeak, but you must be aware of the fact that some people (including me) sometimes don't understand a word of what you are saying, mostly because you are using difficult words, when you could also say the same thing in understandable english.

You're right, Sotek, I'm sorry. I can be a bit of a verbal eletist at times. It doesn't mean I'm smarter than anyone, it just means I'm a Geek. I grew up as an only child and whenever I said to my parents "I'm bored" they said, jokingly, "read the dictionary!" The trouble is... I did. (I was one of those kids who didn't have a Nintendo, you see.) So almost as important as not writing incoherent sentences is to avoid writing verbose ones? I mean... convoluted ones? Urm... overly-complicated ones! Yes, that'll do.

If you agree with someone of course speak up, but do not point out that that 8 arcane items is illegal for the seventh time...

Another way to scare off new people. I imagine they'd be embarrassed enough for making such a public boo-boo.

Good times,
HC.