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Moderation in Druchii.net 
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Malekith's Best Friend
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I think in order to raise the level of conversation in Druchii.net while still retaining the relaxed atmosphere two changes have to be made in the way this site is moderated.

1) Immediately lock threads
a) to which the answer is in the FAQ
b) in which the first post doesn't have any content
c) the topic doesn't tell anything about the content of the thread (editing the topic would do as well (I'm seeing at least one right here on the first page of Druchii Discussion))
B is the most important one. If the one who started the thread has no opinion on the matter then it is not worth wasting our time on. When opening a topic I am expecting at least a few chapters of well thought writing about the opinion of the one who wants to hear our thoughts on the matter. Even further, it is useless to ask for an advice if you don't share the necessary facts in order for anyone to help you. This is something I think moderators should be more cruel and tougher on: If there's not enough useful information in the first post lock the thread with "try again with more content".

2) Cut some slack on going OT. It is natural for a conversation to drift more or less from the original topic. This is not a bad thing at all and if the issue is only a few posts worth of talking about then there's no point in making a new topic for it. Of course, posts covered with fuel should be deleted and the poster given an official or unoffical warning but there's no reason to lock the entire thread because of a few idiots.

These changes really only work when implemented together. There are many good posters on this site and I still like to visit here although I don't think I have seen any really new topics for a year or so. For examples of IMO well moderated Warhammer sites there are Warhammer.org.uk and Direwolf (and don't go pointing me to some bad example of one of these sites, there are always bad bananas in the bunch).

P.S. Rules Questions forum is of course the obvious exception to these changes.

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Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:22 am
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How can a topic not be worth "wasting" your time on a topic, just because the one starting it has no oppinion?

Example: In the NDD forum, a guy has started a thread about Music. He himself, never listened to music, and therefore had nothing to add to the discussion. Nonetheless, it has grown to 3 pages now, still going strong.

Anyway, about your second proposal: I'm 100% agreeing with you there.


Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:08 am
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Blood Templar wrote:
1) Immediately lock threads
a) to which the answer is in the FAQ
If the sole question is something answered in the FAQ then we do lock or delete the thread. However most of the time its a seconary question, so th thread remains open and they get pointed in the direction of the FAQ

b) in which the first post doesn't have any content
Those very rarely happen, and if they do exist they are dealt with, either moving them to a more appropriate location or if they are just Spam they are deleted and the memeber is warned.[/color]

c) the topic doesn't tell anything about the content of the thread (editing the topic would do as well (I'm seeing at least one right here on the first page of Druchii Discussion))
Well in that case Mods that read the thread can change the title if they feel it is warranted, but if you see a thread then use the report button. Thats what its there for.

B is the most important one. If the one who started the thread has no opinion on the matter then it is not worth wasting our time on. When opening a topic I am expecting at least a few chapters of well thought writing about the opinion of the one who wants to hear our thoughts on the matter. Even further, it is useless to ask for an advice if you don't share the necessary facts in order for anyone to help you. This is something I think moderators should be more cruel and tougher on: If there's not enough useful information in the first post lock the thread with "try again with more content".
Sorry matey but that just comes accross as increidbley elitest and big headed. Most new players have no opinion, most of the people asking a rules question have no opinion and alot of people posting thread to get help and gain knowledge have no opinion. This is just a mean litle idea designed to keep the site free of new players and stuff. So basically, NO!

2) Cut some slack on going OT. It is natural for a conversation to drift more or less from the original topic. This is not a bad thing at all and if the issue is only a few posts worth of talking about then there's no point in making a new topic for it. Of course, posts covered with fuel should be deleted and the poster given an official or unoffical warning but there's no reason to lock the entire thread because of a few idiots.
This is all mod discression territory. A thread shouldnt be locked if it has a few posts about something else. Heck most posts go from being about one thing to being about something. Its a natural progression. However when a thread degenerates into something completely different it should be seperated. Sometimes the degenerate into mindless spammyness, in which case they are locked. However most of the time the offending posts are delted and the thread goes on as normal.


You see there are tqwo lessons that come out of this post.
1) The Mod team aren't a hive mind. Our job is to enforce the site rules and we do, but we use our discression to make our decisions. Mods act differently and some are harsher than others, thats life.
2) If you think thereis a thread that warranets mod attention then uses the REPORT button (the little "R" at the top of each post). There are thousands of members ont hsi site, and thousands of posts, we don't read every single post on this board, so use that report button if you don't like something. Never be afraid os using it, even if we decide the pos is fined you won't get any sort of repremand.

So I don't see the problem here. You are either asking for things that already happen, are elitest and wrong or aredealt with effective at the moment.

Ras

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Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:37 am
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I would say, not lock but outright delete "bad" threads. Searching for good old stuff is getting more and more difficult in all that pages, -yes, even using the "search" function. But some people find that too hard.(?)
As for threads where the starter doesn't have opinion, well, I find that not bad at all.

BloodTemplar wrote:
There are many good posters on this site and I still like to visit here although I don't think I have seen any really new topics for a year or so.
New topics need new "material". I think most things about Druchii as the army is now, have already been dicussed twice or more. There was twice a hanging question about D.net's future. Once after the revision when Kitrik asked that since the mission was accomplished "what we do now with D.net?" And another one recently within a relevant topic about D.Net "aging". The only answer from me is that when the new Book is out (or new minis) there will come the new -and interesting- topics you want. Till then...

BloodTemplar wrote:
For examples of IMO well moderated Warhammer sites there are Warhammer.org.uk and Direwolf (and don't go pointing me to some bad example of one of these sites, there are always bad bananas in the bunch).
I haven't visit the two forums you mentioned so I can't express any opinion but since I'm a member of several other, (both Warhammer-related and not) I can say that Druchii.Net is one of the better moderated forums and I have to thank (most) mods for that.


PS: For me, D.Net has outlast its usefulness. I visit the forum once every other day or so and I post even less. But this has nothing to do with bad moderating or because I'm pissed with some members etc but rather because I need something different and mainly because I haven't play Warhammer in more than a year. But I still care for the forum and I would like to see it improved.

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Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:38 am
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LordBelial wrote:
How can a topic not be worth "wasting" your time on a topic, just because the one starting it has no oppinion?


When the only content in the post is "what do u think of executioners? I think they r0xx0r!!1!" I think the thread deserves a lock. You should at least tell us what you think of them and if you don't have gaming experience with them you could fill us in on what kind of situation you could see them being useful in. You could also try to read the Monthly or some of the thousands of posts that already handle the subject and use them as source material. Basically I'm asking for fewer but better threads.

RasputinII, I'll just have to disagree with you.

JohnTheDrow wrote:
New topics need new "material". I think most things about Druchii as the army is now, have already been dicussed twice or more.


My intention was not to complain about that, it was just a statement. There is not much we can do about it at the moment.

JohnTheDrow wrote:
I haven't visit the two forums you mentioned so I can't express any opinion but since I'm a member of several other, (both Warhammer-related and not) I can say that Druchii.Net is one of the better moderated forums and I have to thank (most) mods for that


This is especially true if you count in all the non-warhammer related forums. However, there is always room for improvement and when I see another site run better I wouldn't mind sneaking in the good aspects here too.

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Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:17 pm
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Blood: Funny, I disagreed with you but at least I had the curtousey to explain why and what I thought about what you had posted. That sort of sentament you just posrted is eaxctly the sort of thing you would want threads locked for.

It seems you have a problem with new people, and asking the same questions that we discussed three years ago. Well I'm sorry but we aren't about to close the site's membership, barring new posters or anything that has ever been discussed. If you don't want to read a thread then for pete sake don't, thats what every one else does. There are some really good tactical threads on this site, and I haven't noticed you posting in any of them. So perhaps you, yourself used a bit of effort to look throught he site rather than making this post, and then not being bothered to answere the person who explains why things are as they are.

EDIT: As for Warhammer.org being great, The layout is poor, the number of forums is lacking, but thats not important. What is important is that it has 2,4770 members at roughly 147,000 posts. We on the other hand have 9,693 members and roughly 4 and a half million posts. So I'm sorry if the mods aren't every where at once, but its kinda hard concidering we don't live online...

EDIT 2: I suppose you would want this perfectly vallid post locked then:
http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=40295&highlight=

Ras (who is rather disapointed)

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Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:39 pm
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RasputinII, I think you are taking this way too personally. It was not meant as an attack against the site or the mods - merely as suggestions to make the site better. Don't flip out there - let some steam out before you explode.

As for living online, I don't either. That's why I don't always answer to all people at the same time. I also take the time to think about what other people have said, thus answering faster to some posts than others.

RasputinII wrote:
Blood: Funny, I disagreed with you but at least I had the curtousey to explain why and what I thought about what you had posted. That sort of sentament you just posrted is eaxctly the sort of thing you would want threads locked for.


That's a cheap shot. My post had other content too and that's not even the issue here. I have no problem with short posts just short thread starter posts.

RasputinII wrote:
It seems you have a problem with new people, and asking the same questions that we discussed three years ago.


New people? No. Same questions over and over again? No problem. The problem is that in my opinion certain users make new threads too light-heartedly without putting little to no thought into them. I think the only answer to this is to lock those topics until people learn to produce more content.

RasputinII wrote:
There are some really good tactical threads on this site, and I haven't noticed you posting in any of them.


Not posting doesn't mean not reading.

RasputinII wrote:
What is important is that it has 2,4770 members at roughly 147,000 posts. We on the other hand have 9,693 members and roughly 4 and a half million posts.


That's not very important. They have one moderator per forum, here we have 2 or 3. The activity per forum is about the same and we have a lot more forums. The total number of posts doesn't reflect anything as warhammer.org.uk is relatively young site but very active (the main WFB forum is a lot more active than our Druchii Discussion).

As for answering your previous post, I can see you have a different vision of a good warhammer site than me. I don't think there's much point debating about that.

Mod discretion is of course always advisable when locking threads. I'm not asking every single thread locked in which the first post doesn't reach a certain amount of words but simply the mods to be more hard-handed towards those threads that have been posted without much thinking (like, why should I do the thinking when the people here can do it for me). By the way, why did you draw Rules Questions as an example when I specifically said that they don't count (should have been pretty obvious without saying too)?

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Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:27 pm
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When it comes to vague threads, I'll usually give them a prod first and ask them what they are getting at. Unless a thread particularly incurs my wrath, I'll leave it alone - frequently a thread like that just dies.

Quote:
That's not very important. They have one moderator per forum, here we have 2 or 3.


It's good to have the backup. D.net is a lot more focused in terms of content compared to TWF - their individual forums are much broader in content compared to ours, but we have more forums to cater for background and tactics etc.

I do most of the modding in LRD, but having Nagathi around to keep a further set of eyes on the place is welcome, particularly if I'm not around for a time.

I tend to enforce the rules fairly harshly, with the objective being that it will be an example to others. I like to think it deters too many from posting spam or flames.

1 a & c we already tend to do, while point 2 is tolerated to some extent - threads always seem to evolve away from the original post to some degree, in my experience that is inevitable.

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Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:08 pm
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BloodTemplar wrote:
1) Immediately lock threads
a) to which the answer is in the FAQ
b) in which the first post doesn't have any content


Agreed, though generally the users get warned, or the threads get locked when it's possible. There is a reason we have a report button here.


BloodTemplar wrote:
If the one who started the thread has no opinion on the matter then it is not worth wasting our time on.


While I agree they aren't generating much discussion about the topic, sometimes that's not relevant. ie. What kind of lists are being taken to RTT's lately? How would you paint NMM, or "my models" etc... Rules questions are another example. But, yes when people say "Skaven are cheese" without even a bad pun, it's a bit discouraging.. also army lists that get posted and members try to help out with never see the poster again. That's too bad. I generally don't post too much in threads like that unless I see the author is interacting, and posting some of this opinions and shows that he is actually interacting.

BloodTemplar wrote:
When opening a topic I am expecting at least a few chapters of well thought writing about the opinion of the one who wants to hear our thoughts on the matter.


Glad to hear that you put some serious though, and content in your threads. I rarely make them, but when I do I also try to do the same.

BloodTemplar wrote:
2) Cut some slack on going OT. It is natural for a conversation to drift more or less from the original topic.


Ok, here I don't agree with you. It's quite leniant here in terms of threads veering a bit off-topic. But when it's more than a couple consecutive posts a mod should say something. If it continues, and degenerates it's our duty to lock it. I don't think the rules should be stricter, and I feel this is a pretty nice place. We keep is 14A as there are many younger people, and try not to hammer on too many people for little reasons.

No matter where you go, you will find that different people are going to react differently.. I have seen forums that ban users with 1 warning for far less than we would to politely PM someone.

WlakkiaVorlok wrote:
I say do away with ALL the moderators and let an evolution/natural selection style take over


I want to laugh at that, but I can't! :?

Fr0

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Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:49 am
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about locking off topic posts. as i am well known for doing that in the rules forum i wille xplain why.

long long ago when d.net was much younger and smaller we didnt do this. and a rules question thread often deviated into an entirerly different rules question. so people would get confused as to what was being asked and answered meaning .. a mess. people didnt get the real answer they wanted. so that is why we enfoce the strict no off topic what so ever rule in there. not that RUles folder is stricter then the others. But the same logic applies. stick to the topic to avoid people getting confused

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Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:59 pm
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First, I want to say that if you have opinions like this, then I think that you have taken exactly the right approach in posting them here in the Suggestions Forum. The feedback is useful for the Moderators to consider when making judgement calls on how to react to these kinds of posts/situations.

Second, I think that most of these situations are usually not common place, but rather the exception to the vast majority of the site's content. I think that what you may not realize, is that most of these situations that you may run across are very often simply the ones that slip through the cracks, i.e. the moderators are already addressing many of these occurances, it's just that not all of them are caught, or maybe the moderator may be of a better disposition than you when they read through it and so decided to cut the poster some slack and just let it be. I know that I personally address many of these things often myself. I often lock threads that satisfy some of these situations, or more frequently, simple delete the post or two that contributes nothing to the discussion at hand. I modify thread titles quite often, too.

This may also help to explain why some of the Moderators may seem a bit defensive in their replies here - they're doing many of these things fairly often and so they're not understanding why you might be suggesting that they are perhaps, a little lax, for lack of a better word.

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Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:10 am
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It was said as both a joke and some seriousness.
I feel this place is overmoderated and it gets annoying at times. mainly because its just another person whose @ss you have to kiss and plus alot of the instances where a mod is needed such as post lacking content dont need to be locked or deleted. if it has no content then it quickly gets suffled away be relevant things.
I run a chat room granted its mostly geared to inspiring debate and arguement, but the best to moderate the room is to not moderate at all. most trollers just come in and try to start rabble but then leave because no one really takes the bait.
I seriously think that you guys should lighten up on the moderation. granted some people will post crap in places that are wrong but ive never busted a bloodvessel in my eye because of it like bloodtemplar seems to have. it gives a more relaxed enviroment if people know they arent getting scolded for every little screw up. the joke part of my statement has to do with the fact i know that if this place went like that it would degenerate into a pile rubble because alot of people here also need to be able to whine to a mommy and daddy figure.

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Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:23 am
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Quote:
I seriously think that you guys should lighten up on the moderation.

As per a thread on here a little while ago arguing the need (or lack of need) for an Off-Topic forum like the one on Asur.org, I learned that apparently, little to no moderation had been tried before, and because of the "whiners" on D.net, I believe the word was, it simply didn't work.

As it is, I think something's going on in the hidden forums about various topics like and related to this, though I don't know much more than that.

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Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:06 am
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I'd like to give reasons in favor of status quo.
but I've no much time.

1) Druchii.net is still a very fair and polite forum.
2) A certain amount of flexibility is need in order to get a richfull forum.

Are you so strict also with your other posts? isn't funny, nor confortable, to post with a Damocle's sword on your hands.
Quality is the right anwer to your problems. You may be right if you focus on the thread TITLEs, yes there are something to improve but no more than a language better specification

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tizio

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Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:42 am
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WlakkiaVorlok wrote:
I run a chat room granted its mostly geared to inspiring debate and arguement, but the best to moderate the room is to not moderate at all. most trollers just come in and try to start rabble but then leave because no one really takes the bait.


Chat room has no relevance to a message board. An unmoderated forum like this would be a chaos with all the most productive members moving on to other choices. I'm constantly on several IRC channels and in many of them opping all known users (basically giving all moderator status) or leaving all the channel members unopped (happens from time to time due to netsplits) works pretty well. However the same approach simply doesn't work in the world of message boards. The crap doesn't flow away as fast as it does on IRC and chat rooms.

Anyway, I'm happy if this thread gets any mods to reconsider their moderating practices. Maybe some of them make some kind of change - to which direction is out of my reach but it's good to think about this issue sometimes.

I also expected a certain number of more or less hostile answers and got them. Surprising though that most mods took this so well - thank you for that.

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Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:53 pm
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Quote:
Chat room has no relevance to a message board. An unmoderated forum like this would be a chaos with all the most productive members moving on to other choices. I'm constantly on several IRC channels and in many of them opping all known users (basically giving all moderator status) or leaving all the channel members unopped (happens from time to time due to netsplits) works pretty well. However the same approach simply doesn't work in the world of message boards. The crap doesn't flow away as fast as it does on IRC and chat rooms.


Its totally relevent.it puts responsibility to not reply to crap and not continue to bump up irrelevant posts with "NO BELONG HERE" posts. Thi site doesnt need anymore moderation than it does. If anything some of the users can use education on posting. If the productive posters are so productive then they would know to just leave a dead and buried issue alone. When someone puts a question in the wrong place, either reply to it ONCE and tell them the answer and then direct to the proper forum. There doesnt need to be a thread lock, as long as their isnt 3-6 replies saying the same thing.
The reason why the crap doesnt get sent away is because you have about 20-30 posts showing up on the page so naturally youll still have it in eye site.
I agree with Raputin, you do seem to have a very elitist attitude.

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Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:08 pm
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I think the amount of modding going on here is about right, most off topic threads get moved to where they should be or locked fairly quickly.

I know Linda takes great pride in her rules forum to ensure that any off-topic posts are locked and that threads are locked or allowed to die if the question has been answered. Generally threads only survive there if there is an ongoing debate or someone is still unclear.

We definitely need mods here, if not the off-topic forum especially does degenerate into slanging matches re politics, religion etc which is why those topics are banned. D.net members come from all walks of life and have very different points of view on many things. We all come here to be a community, let's keep it that way and not discuss things that will tear us apart.

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Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:56 pm
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WlakkiaVorlok wrote:
Its totally relevent.it puts responsibility to not reply to crap and not continue to bump up irrelevant posts with "NO BELONG HERE" posts. Thi site doesnt need anymore moderation than it does. If anything some of the users can use education on posting. If the productive posters are so productive then they would know to just leave a dead and buried issue alone. When someone puts a question in the wrong place, either reply to it ONCE and tell them the answer and then direct to the proper forum. There doesnt need to be a thread lock, as long as their isnt 3-6 replies saying the same thing.


I'm sure you would be happy to provide that education. Your 'answer' is all well and good in the utopia you live in. The rest of us have to deal with the real world and the situation we have here. The tricky thing is that you say the problem wouldn't exist if people acted like this and did like that. However, they don't. And if we don't want to go haywire on banning users (I don't) there is very little we can do to how people act here, we can only respond to what's already happening.

WlakkiaVorlok wrote:
The reason why the crap doesnt get sent away is because you have about 20-30 posts showing up on the page so naturally youll still have it in eye site.


Sorry to inform you but not all of our members are smart enough or just not experienced enough in the field of warhammer message boards to recognize a totally useless post and stay away from it. As the community is so huge every single thread seems to get answers, thus the crap keeps popping up when it was already on its way down. The answer is to either simply lock those threads or making a rule of not repeating what has already been said and then ban those users who did so (we would soon have a very empty forum).

WlakkiaVorlok wrote:
I agree with Raputin, you do seem to have a very elitist attitude.


Whatever.

You admit the problem and as a solution suggest that instead of moderation people should just change their attitude on how to act here and keep themselves from replying to crap threads. Guess which one is the only realistic and in any way plausible answer:
1) Moderation.
2) Changing the attitude of 9700+ pseudonymous members all over the world.

Seriously, take a reality check.

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Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:28 pm
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Quote:
I'm sure you would be happy to provide that education. Your 'answer' is all well and good in the utopia you live in. The rest of us have to deal with the real world and the situation we have here. The tricky thing is that you say the problem wouldn't exist if people acted like this and did like that. However, they don't. And if we don't want to go haywire on banning users (I don't) there is very little we can do to how people act here, we can only respond to what's already happening.


Even in the most moderated forums the problem still exists, my solution for people to use some common sense is a more proper solution because the moderators cant be everywhere. it takes the burden off of the 2 people in charge of a forum. and its not a utopian ideal to just say hey dont bump up band threads, however its even more utopian to think that adding more moderators and coming down and banning people will solve every problem.

Quote:
Sorry to inform you but not all of our members are smart enough or just not experienced enough in the field of warhammer message boards to recognize a totally useless post and stay away from it. As the community is so huge every single thread seems to get answers, thus the crap keeps popping up when it was already on its way down. The answer is to either simply lock those threads or making a rule of not repeating what has already been said and then ban those users who did so (we would soon have a very empty forum).


Again your asking for something that can be solved by a community member telling someone the answer quickly and then stating the proper place for it. I'm talking about members taking some respobsibilty instead of relying on moderators hold your hand all the way.

Quote:
You admit the problem and as a solution suggest that instead of moderation people should just change their attitude on how to act here and keep themselves from replying to crap threads. Guess which one is the only realistic and in any way plausible answer:
1) Moderation.
2) Changing the attitude of 9700+ pseudonymous members all over the world.


The moderators themselves say more moderation isnt going to stop anything because they cant be everywhere at once. I'm suggesting people take some responsibilty for themselves and not rely on mommy and daddy hold their hand to do the simplest things.

and well said with your reality check bloodtemplar, you sure showed me. Even though the reality of the situation is that more moderation wont change a thing, and just puts a larger burden on a few select people.

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Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:27 am
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You're just repeating the same stuff over again without any real arguments so I skip some of it.

WlakkiaVorlok wrote:
my solution for people to use some common sense is a more proper solution because the moderators cant be everywhere. it takes the burden off of the 2 people in charge of a forum. and its not a utopian ideal to just say hey dont bump up band threads


And I repeat my question: How are you going to do this? People don't even read the FAQ. Are going to go and knock on their door saying "please don't bump the crap threads, thanks"? Sending PMs to everyone who do it? And wouldn't that be any work for the moderators? Oh, but you were happy to get rid of the moderators completely so they can't do it either.

WlakkiaVorlok wrote:
I'm suggesting people take some responsibilty for themselves and not rely on mommy and daddy hold their hand to do the simplest things.


Yeah, that would be really cool but it ain't gonna happen in this world. Some people can do it, most don't.

WlakkiaVorlok wrote:
and well said with your reality check bloodtemplar, you sure showed me.


Thanks, that was the point.

WlakkiaVorlok wrote:
Even though the reality of the situation is that more moderation wont change a thing, and just puts a larger burden on a few select people.


And you know this how? Some mod said so? Has it ever been tried here? A bit more moderated forums all over the internet seem to be running fine with less crap filling up the space.

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Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:04 am
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Quote:
And I repeat my question: How are you going to do this? People don't even read the FAQ. Are going to go and knock on their door saying "please don't bump the crap threads, thanks"? Sending PMs to everyone who do it? And wouldn't that be any work for the moderators? Oh, but you were happy to get rid of the moderators completely so they can't do it either.


you seem to have problem with reading and comprehension. I stated how:
Quote:
Again your asking for something that can be solved by a community member telling someone the answer quickly and then stating the proper place for it. I'm talking about members taking some respobsibilty instead of relying on moderators hold your hand all the way.



Quote:
And you know this how? Some mod said so? Has it ever been tried here? A bit more moderated forums all over the internet seem to be running fine with less crap filling up the space.


I can level the same exact arguemtn to you also, but this doesnt refute my point that there doesnt need to be more moderation. Their are many fully functioning forums with little moderation such as the counterorder boards and the old Dark Legions forum.
I'm repeating myself because you dont seem to be reading what i'm saying.
There doesnt need to be more moderation for the reasons you present. almost all of these things can be handled by people not bumping them up seven times to say the same thing over and over again. How do you teach people this? if you see them do something simply answer there question, then tell them in the post to be more descritpive, more whatever. and if they keep doing it then DONT reply to their thread.
again what im saying and you seem to think this as an impossibility but it does work and it is possible is for the users to show some rationality and common sense instead of just asking to make new admins.

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Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:31 am
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WlakkiaVorlok wrote:
you seem to have problem with reading and comprehension. I stated how:


I got it the first time but it doesn't really answer the question nor solve anything because:

WlakkiaVorlok wrote:
How do you teach people this? if you see them do something simply answer there question, then tell them in the post to be more descritpive, more whatever. and if they keep doing it then DONT reply to their thread.


What about the 30 other guys who keep bumping it? I can take care of myself thank you very much but there are a lot of folks who just don't seem to recognize a crappy thread when they see it. Also, what you describe is a kind of user moderation and in some boards it is a perfectly valid reason to be warned or eventually banned and I can very well see why. Users moderating each others doesn't make for a nice environment when everyone has a different vision of what kind of a place the forum should be and what is ok and what is not. It ends up in every single thread having someone complaining about the disobedience of forum guide lines.

WlakkiaVorlok wrote:
I can level the same exact arguemtn to you also, but this doesnt refute my point that there doesnt need to be more moderation. Their are many fully functioning forums with little moderation such as the counterorder boards and the old Dark Legions forum.


Don't know either one. I can only expect that their user base is smaller and/or more mature than here.

WlakkiaVorlok wrote:
again what im saying and you seem to think this as an impossibility but it does work and it is possible is for the users to show some rationality and common sense instead of just asking to make new admins.


I don't know anyone asking for new admins. I wasn't even asking for new mods, just a slight change in their moderating policy. I certainly don't have your faith in people and their rational common sense.

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Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:02 pm
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Lord of Khorne
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WlakkiaVorlok wrote:
How do you teach people this? if you see them do something simply answer there question, then tell them in the post to be more descritpive, more whatever. and if they keep doing it then DONT reply to their thread.


The problem is that can eventually turn to spam. If one person spams with a stupid question/post/whatever, it should be made absolutely clear in the first instance that behaviour is unacceptable. Just having a load of hanging threads clutters up the forums unnecessarily, and likely causes other users to be mildly annoyed by their presence.

In my experience, most people only need telling once about spam and such. There are some that defy multiple unofficial and official warnings about their conduct, but they are in a very small minority (and usually have their spam posts deleted).

The amount of PMs I send out due to rules breaches in LRD and 40k (both fairly busy parts of the site) are fairly small. Quoting the offending material, explaining the problem and pointing out it is against the rules doesn't take long. Outside of that you'll see a few post edits and thread locks, which are rarer than warnings.

The general users are taking more responsibility these days. The rise in "Read the FAQ" sigs and posts from general users in recent weeks implies that the members are just as sick of "What's the GoP?" posts as those up top.

As I make clear in my 40k faq, there is no excuse not to read it. The main forum rules are spelled out in big red letters, and it should take no more than a few minutes to read.

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Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:08 pm
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you say that people should gently inform eachother. guess what that is what is happening here. when people ask "what is GOP?" they get informed to read the FAQ thread. But people still ask this tiem and time again. I been here for a very very long time now. and ever since the GOP emerged this question has been asked a lot! simply because we get new members daily and they do not read the FAQ in most cases. Heck when we spotted ONE new member that had we made a celebratory thread to show how rare it is to actually witness (yes i know the vast majority of the ones that do read the FAQ never show it). but still it is a telling then when somone rather new to the site quotes the FAQ without having been told.

and yes we have several times tried lessening the moderation. i think 6 or so times now that I can vividly recall. Every single time it devolved into a flamewar. everytime! no exception. and we had to spend a lot of time soothing ruffled feathers let me tell you.

so it isnt like we just said "hey lets be very strickt on modding because we get a virtual erection from our powers" we came to this level through trial and error and a lot of feedback (like this) from our members. We also recognised that we can never please everyone, some want anarchy some want even strickter modding then we have now. so we have tried to walk a path that will be acceptable to the majorety of our members. and since it has been said a few times without any basis what so ever let me adress the number of mods. There are NO plans to make any new moderators/black guards or administrators. Sure we discuss it from time to time but we have at the moment decided not to recruit more.

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Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:36 pm
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What about the 30 other guys who keep bumping it? I can take care of myself thank you very much but there are a lot of folks who just don't seem to recognize a crappy thread when they see it. Also, what you describe is a kind of user moderation and in some boards it is a perfectly valid reason to be warned or eventually banned and I can very well see why. Users moderating each others doesn't make for a nice environment when everyone has a different vision of what kind of a place the forum should be and what is ok and what is not. It ends up in every single thread having someone complaining about the disobedience of forum guide lines.


you promote a hypothetical situation, the problem is that it can or cannto happen so who can say? Its unlikely but possible so the point is moot. a lot of people bumping up a "WOT the HAX IS DA GOp?" post is unlikely but the possibility of alot of people replying to something that has been discussed is feesible(SP?) because their are alot of new people and they would also like to discuss not just read a faq on it. What I'm advocating is for posters using discretion to bumping up something like the GOP style posts instead of requesting a mod crackdown. not nessacarily users all with mod power (which would be simpsons' style mob rule) but users who take it upon themselves not to contribute to garbage. Of course theres a degree of faith that goes into this but it takes the same amount to trust a mod team. Sorry about the misstatement but what i mean is that there doesnt need to be a crack down or a stricter moding policy

As for the current state, i think they got it good and well but its my general demeanor to advocate less moderation and the public to take these responsibilties. When i came back here i found the "READ THE FAQ" thing to be a little obnoxious but i know where your coming from. The FAQ here is very different though. most places have a faq thats just a general rules guidline, No Spaming/Flaming, No Copyright, No Illegal Content etc, but yours includes almost any question someone could ever have on it (good job on this) So i have some sympathy for people that ask something and get a relatively assholeish reply of "READ THE FAQ!" its a real turn off for new people to get that response,

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Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:23 pm
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