Looking for Basic Analysis of Mordheim Warbands

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Damnosus
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Looking for Basic Analysis of Mordheim Warbands

Post by Damnosus »

So I am trying to get my friends to start up mordheim with me and I would like to give them a little bit of a summary of how the different warbands work. However, since I have only really played a couple of times (ages ago) I cannot remember what they are like. Thus I am coming to you good folks for help.

If anyone could give me a quick synopsis of how all of (or some of) the various official and unofficial warbands operate (like are they more shooty/close combat/defensive/offensive/etc.) that would be great. Additionally, if anyone could provide possible warnings I could give to certain armies to prevent them from becoming overpowered-because I want to keep things fair (so like for skaven I would tell the person to not max out on slings/get high numbers)-that would be great as well. Thanks a lot!
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Loflar
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Post by Loflar »

OK, I hope that others will correct me.

Basic rules:
========
Imperial mercenaries - are flexible, can be good in both close combat and shooting. They have good selection of weapons and good selection of hired swords. Of those three, Reikland with its marksmen starting at BS4 is generally considered the strongest. Marienburg has more money in the beginning, which can help, but if you fail to build on that, you are left with almost no bonuses. Middenheim is usually considered the weakest, since its only bonus is S4 for some heroes, which only helps if you send them into close combat, which is risky, as humans are not exactly the toughest beasts around.

Witch Hunters - limited in numbers and limited in weapons. Generally considered weak. However, they have cheap dogs, strong flagellants (especially once they get A2) and wide selection of hired swords, which they can afford, because all heroes have academic skills.

Sisters of Sigmar - tuned for close combat. With their special equipment, they can easily achieve S5 attacks (with hammers) or high number of them (with their whips).

Undead - fear causing, slow, but vampire is a true monster and ghouls should not be underestimated.

Posessed - Risky start. They require big investments in the beginning. If then your posessed dies, your warband is crippled. If he does not, you have an unstoppable combat monster.

Skaven - fast and numerous. Average skaven has better stats then average human - that is why he is cheaper... Low Ld is a weakness, but not so big.

Annual 02
=======
Averland - halfling shoot well and are cheap. Bergjaeger shoot also well and advance fast. Considered stronger then Reikland in our group.
Ostland - designed around the special guns, but no one buys them, because they are overpriced. So Ostland generally develops as close combat warband, possibly with some shooty hero for support. I like the special skills, though, and Taal's prayers are considered one of the strongest magics in the game.
Kislev - buying guns for streltzi is slightly more justified then in case of Ostland, because of the BS bonus. Bear has one big weakness - the Bear Tamer. Get him out of game and you can forget about the bear ;-)
Orcs and goblins - I have never met them. Seem to be hard hitting and unpredictable. Might become overpowered if you manage to develop a warband of 20 crossbow wielding orcs and troll.
Dwarfs - superior economics, almost impossible to get out of action. Theoretically, they could be outnumbered, but with their bonuses, they can afford a lot of hired swords to raise their numbers.

I left out about twenty or fifty others...
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Post by The golden arrow »

I'll add some of the bands I'm familiar with:

Shadow Warriors - Extremely fast and agile warband with a lot of arrows coming out (all member can buy bows). They are not very numerous though and still elves so they aren't very tough or good in combat. Also very limited close combat weapons. The best way to fight with this band is up rooftps and climb around a lot to use your superiour initiative.

Beastmen - Obviously a very close combat oriented band. They have mic of cheap troops and rock hard close combat guys, not very much in the shooting department though. They are fast and can get quite numerous and have some really good skills (like shaggy hide).

Norse - A very close combat oriented band (they don't even have any magic!). Berserkers can get really nasty, especially if they get +1 attack and the Jarl and Wulfen are both good in combat (wulfen needs some upgrades first since it can't buy weapons, don't be fooled by the high stats). They also have quite cheap maruaders that are better than most humans and very cheap and fast dogs. This means that they aren't that suspectible to enemy shooting so they will often get to the enemy lines, not very good at climbing though. Another advantage is 6 heroes so you get more exploration dice.
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Damnosus
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Post by Damnosus »

Wow thanks so much guys, this is really great so far (I cannot wait to see the rest :D )! Which of these are often seen as easily abused (rules wise), and what things can be done to mediate them (if one of my friends decides to go for that warband)?
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Post by Elipsis »

From my experien ce while playing, i found that dwarves can grow to become very hard to beat, as they don't die and just start to pick up momentum.
Skaven I think also follow this track when there are about 15 skaven all armed with slings it just gets gnarly quick.
I found that playing as humans was the most fun, as humans can go whichever way they want, I played as pirates :D
Of course this is just my totally unbiased opinion here, but i reckon Dark Elves would be good, they fill out well on CC, Shooting and magic, only falling short on toughness. This could probably be said for other warbands but then they don't get to be evil :twisted:
And even if they do, you should have posted on their forums :P
I think as a rule, the experimental warbands are a bit flawed in all their ways (Clowns end up swimming in gold, only my friends incompetence prevented them from going anywhere) so you could a sk people to stick to non experimental?
A good website is mordheimer.com if you don't already know it
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Post by Loflar »

Yes, watch for dwarfs and skaven. Dwarfs don't die, so they don't need to replace that much, but they still get more money then others. Skaven have better then human stats, but are cheaper and more numerous. Oterwise, if you stick to official warbands, you should be OK.

Now to unofficial. If you really want to try Dark Elves, you can help their development by trying these and reporting results. Be aware that they are fragile (more then humans) and their RXB is overexpensive. But they are fast.

We have found that Nuln (of Nemesis Crown Supplement) can be quite strong, if used well. But not unbalanced.

Bretonnians, as published on SG website, are problematic. Yes, they can work, but we have found them most effective if tuned to 7 longbowmen. The knights were hiding in safe distance. Not very Bretonnian. So we created our own version which you can find on Round Table website. They work and they are reasonably strong.

From warbands of Relicts of Crusades, we tested Ghutani tribe and Slavers, and we found both slightly overpowered. In their case, we decided that next time, their champion-level characters (Askars and Caravan Guards) will not start with 0 XP, but with 8 XP, as standard human champions do.

We also tried Protectorate of Sigmar (as published in Letters of the Damned e-zine) and found them usable. Strong, but not overpowered.
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Post by Damnosus »

This looks really great, thanks guys! So far I have one guy who will be playing Orcs and Gobbos (because he already has the models), and I will be playing Carnival of Chaos. Can anyone give any advice to either of us regarding warband creation/tactics?

I think I am gonna try and steer the rest away from unofficial warbands, unless they are really interested in something specific.

Finally, and I know this is offtopic, but does anyone know where I could order some of that nifty stuff that makes the bases look like a street?
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Loflar
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Post by Loflar »

General advice is:
1. Maximize number of your heroes
2. Quantity is over quality in Mordheim (though quality is more fun, IMHO... choose yourself)
3. Henchmen die more often then heroes, so giving them expensive equipment is risky.
4. Guns and armour are not worth the money.

Make sure you have enough terrain. It should be a bombed city, after all. You need places for your models to hide.
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Post by Cadeyrn »

Mordheim can be a lot of fun, but it doesn't play at all like Fantasy. Very High strength attacks become common place after a few weeks if your playing with the campaign rules, and armor is extremly expensive when it's so easily negated.

The more terrain you have, the more strategic the games will be. On the best tables I've played, there's rarely a space more than 6" x 6" that is empty.

I play Carnival of Chaos, which start out very strong with STR 6 attacking Heroes, but fall short in long campaigns due to their inability to hire mercs and thus end up outnumbered.

Vampires on the other hand tend to start out mediocre, but the Vampire himself often becomes a demi-god after 6-10 games of experience and upgrades.

The human warband that gets the shooting bonuses (Rieklanders maybe?) can be one hell of a hit and run force once your heroes get a few skills.


One last piece of advice, if your playing a campaign, Winning the game is often less important than gaining XP and gold, while avoiding loosing men. Many times a wise man has sacrificed the minimum number of cheap henchmen to a superior force so he could high tail it and reap the underdog bonus!
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Post by Professor goodvibes »

A problem I find with orcs and goblins is they can only start with 4 heroes, and that makes it difficult to build a wyrdstone account for your warband. Only downside with them.

My advice to make it a more fun game is to use the optional rules, especially the optional critical hit chart. Makes for lots of random madness instead of standard 2 wounds plus 1 on injury table...bleh. And guns are worth it once you can afford superior black powder.

Another tip is I find throwing knives to be deadly. Not by themselves, but once a hero armed with throwing knives can have eagle eyes and the knife throwing skill and has strength 4 you are talking 3 strength 5 (poison bumps to 5) missiles in the shooting phase that are not modified by movement or long range! Arm the same hero with a spear so he strikes first in close combat if the enemy survives the knives. I am using this on my kislev youngbloods, since they gain xp the fastest.
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Post by Damnosus »

Wow this is fantastic advice!

Just a couple more things though:

1: anyone know where I can buy some of that stuff that you can put on model's bases to make it look like a stone road? I used to know a website, but I think it went out of business.

2: anyone got any ideas on what the min/max cost of a warband is? I am in the U.S. so I guess dollars would work best. This will probably be a major factor in conning-I mean convincing people to join in ;)

3: I have a warband list written up, would you folks mind if I posted it for critiques?

4: What is the easiest way to go about setting up a campaign (especially for noobs)?

Thanks for everything thus far! I think once I get things rolling I might try and set up a blog. I will keep you good folks informed.
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Post by Loflar »

1. I don't know.

2. Get a box of Empire Militia. IIRC it contains 16 models - full warband of Imperial Mercenaries. Similarly, box of Night Runners will give you Skaven. Box of Black Orcs for a Black Orcs warband from Nemesis Crown (We also tried this one. It is strong in the beginning, but falls behind in a long campaign.) You can also look at ebay for second hand models.

3. No problem.

4. Simply set up a league. This way you ensure that everyone will play with everyone and after set number of rounds, you can evaluate result. However, it requires people, who will reliably regularly play, otherwise you will all wait on one person who "just does not feel like that today".
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Post by Cadeyrn »

1. No sure, but green stuff rolled into small balls and then flattened would make a decent stone road in my opinion.

2. Most of the Mordheim started sets run ~ $40.00 US. figure ~$60-100 for a full warband if you buy the official models. As stated above, using empire or Bret models for human warbands could be much cheaper.

3. Go ahead and post your list, I'm guessing you may want to locate it under the General Gaming / Specialist Games Discussion forum though.

4. Campaigns can just be a series of individual battles. The organizer can pick the order they are played in, or you could just use the "random" senario" from the main rulebook. I'd suggest forcing everyone to play the same game in the same order, only because some games will generate more gold/xp than others which you unbalance armies if someone plays them too often.

Check GW's website for basic rules/senarios (these are probably best for the first 3-6 games):

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/conte ... Id=5300009

or check someplace like http://www.mordheimer.com/scenarios/s_master_list.htm for a wild list of other senarios!
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Post by Damnosus »

Ok so for those of you that might be interested, I found a website that sells cobblestone bases. I am not sure if posting the link will go against any rules, so I won't post it until I am told I can (you can still message me if you want the link).

As for my list, I was thinking of starting off with this:
Barnabus Bailey: Magister, sword, hammer -83gc

Carl and Andre: 2x brute, two-handed weapon -150gc

1x tainted one, mark of nurgle, sword, hammer -73gc

Dross: 1x tainted one, cloud of flies, sword, hammer -53gc

2x brethren, bows, axes, hammers -96gc

3x nurgling -45gc

Any thoughts on it?
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Post by Loflar »

Not much. I would probably not buy two weapons for everyone and used the saved money to get more models, but I understand that the sword is there to parry and hammer to stun.

But parrying usually does not work and I don't like hammers...

I think that this setup is OK. Powergamers might fiind a place for one or two more models, though.
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Post by Cadeyrn »

You've got the makings of a great starter list for Chaos.

I'll just give you my opinions on a couple of things:

1) I find swords way to expensive for starting out. Their parry bonus doesn't seem to be that big a benifit, and if you keep nurglings in your combats for the cloud of flies bonus, most people are hitting on 5+ anyway (you can never parry a 6 to hit)

2) You can't add blessings to your tainted ones after the first game, so while they seem extreemly expensive, get as much as you can on them when you buy them. I like bloated foulness and/or mark or nurgle because multi wound characters are awsome when they get skils. Also, cloud of flies can be achieved very cheaply with a nurgling, use your gold to get something better on a tainted one.

3) Always buy a 2nd weapon for everyone! 2 attacks for an extra 1-3g is the cheapest upgrade in the game.


One other side note, if your helping to set up a campaign for the first time, I'd recommend that you only allow "official" warbands. While many of the unofficial warbands are quite fair, a couple of them seem very unfair, and will likely ruin the fun of many players and discourage them from playing in the future.
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Post by Loflar »

Cadeyrn wrote:3) Always buy a 2nd weapon for everyone! 2 attacks for an extra 1-3g is the cheapest upgrade in the game.

Well, almost every model has a free dagger by default. This is the second weapon.
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Post by Eccelex »

What about gladiators? Are they strong, how do they develop, etc? Could anyone describe them?

I have 6 of them and I'm wondering if I should buy 6 more and the dwarf + ogre to complete the band... Those models are expensive and I can barely find any opponent
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