Moderator: The Dread Knights
That was just about the equivalent of "the Sundering" on your already waning credibility. Thanks, but no thanks.
Get another unit of 19 Spearelves w SB ( drop the musicien and champ on the other unit too!) (+203 pts)
Mirz Do Ordas wrote:OMG,
as pmn8ez (get a real name, will ye?) allready said, this army worked for him, please stop trying to get him to ditch the whole list and make it another all Cav HE list, or a pincussion/ frying list.
I see a lot of merit in this (original) list, I guess some tweaking in chars is possible, but all in all, it is a nice, MSU based list.
(i would just go for 2 lvl 2 mages with seer, 2 unseen lurkers are fun).
In case you din't know, it needs to be all around, but archers aren't good :S 
Archdukechocula wrote:In fact I think the problem is that there should be a better term for jerky WAAC people, such as Win Avoiding Normal Kindness, Especially Respect (A " WANKER " if you will).
Wow. I just checked in to see if I got any replies since last night and it looks like over a half dozen more... I'll definetely take the time to read everything and speak to each person individually in terms of their comments, just as soon as I have about 45 mins or so of free time to do it. As always, great to see that you replied Drakken (and everyone else, of course... even you, DP). 
Before I begin, though, I'd just like to point out to the "real" Asur players here a quote which seemed to explain my thoughts better than I could think them:
Mirz Do Ordas wrote:as pmn8ez (get a real name, will ye?) allready said, this army worked for him, please stop trying to get him to ditch the whole list and make it another all Cav HE list, or a pincussion/ frying list.
I'm honored...I created an account on this site just to comment on this list. So listen up.
On a less sarcastic note, glad you decided to join into the conversation (and post a decent amount as well, I might add. I think Drakken did a pretty good job of describing a couple of my thoughts and potential counterpoints to your 'analysis', but I'd like to add a few more things. 120 points is quite a lot for a unit that shoots S3 arrows, but looking at it differently, they guard flanks from enemy fast cav and skirmishers, etc. This means that for 120 points, I am potentially avoiding a flank charge from fast cav that would tear apart my 225 point swordmaster unit, plus banner and the accompanying character. 120 points for some insurance on ~450 is pretty much worth it in my book. I also don't intend for them to kill oodles. They can easily destroy any small disruption units, many of which will easily be worth 75% of the cost I paid for the archers. They can also shave off a rank here or there and discourage any mages from wandering too far from units. 2 units isn't a huge investment and allows me to cover both sides of the board. Archers don't suck; you're just thinking of them in a role that I am not, one which probably performs much worse than I am trying to. Now, a DE rxb elf costs 11 points, has 6" shorter range, and -1BS when firing his multishot and his save is only 6+. I think that balances out pretty well in the end. I'll skip the PG/ LSG/ Archer thing because we can all agree for the most part on the same few principles there. With spearmen and swordmasters, as I already said to Drakken, big units are a bad thing. With elves, they're big, unarmored pincushions that lack the mobility of a 12, 15, or 16-man unit and will easily be reduced to that number if taken in such large size. !cry! !cry! Sniff... (note, that's actually a happy cry but there's no emoticon for it. That was just so beautiful, I had to quote it twice.as pmn8ez (get a real name, will ye?) allready said, this army worked for him, please stop trying to get him to ditch the whole list and make it another all Cav HE list, or a pincussion/ frying list.
Overall? I think you need to read that 1st post again...this was not a design me a list thread...its a state your opinions to attempt to improve this list, and back them up with reasons.
pmpn8ez wrote:
@DP: If I am supposed to be thankful for you taking time out of your day to insult, not criticize me (easily going beyond the list here), then I'd rather you not post at all. The only comments I've gotten from you is that the list sucks; no intelligible reasoning or explanation behind it, nor any real suggestions. As that contributes absolutely nothing to the conversation at hand or to the list itself, then I don't need the extra commentary; there's plenty to work from here as it is from Asur and Druchii players alike.
).
@pmpn8ez about my math, I took into account what i put in brackets, so i factored that into the math at the end of each line. Lol....i still dont quite agree with the archers, but its a personal preference.....how about a new list with the changes (are there any ? lol)
I think you have someone on your side, pimp8nez:P
It's just a matter of personal preference; I like archers, everyone else hates them.
Drakken wrote:Pmpn8ez, had a chance to play test a bit yet, see how things work?
, albeit you were the only one 
) and now, I have played with this exact list a fair bit. Originally this post had a ton of text attached to it relating all of my experiences, but after about a day, I had no replies so I edited it out and put this instead:*EDIT* Ok, so I guess a huge bit of writing (it turned out to be a full page when put into word) at the end doesn't really help for popularity or replies. No harm done then, let's just turn this into another "rate my army" post.
I did copy and paste what I wrote into Microsoft word and it came out to a full page of single spaced text (I did save it though). Of course, I wouldn't ask you to read all of it, but this is what I originally wrote:Original post wrote:Now, for a little bit of insight gained after about half a dozen games with this army list.First off, the myth that archers are a complete waste of points is, well, a myth. I used to believe it myself until I took my own advice from other things and made sure to correctly prioritize enemy units and more importantly, not to expect of them what they could not do. After they chewed through their ~3rd unit of fast cavalry (over a couple of games) I came to the decision that a 30" range, BS4 unit that could move and fire was really an awesome thing. Even at a price of 120 points, all they need to do is panic or destroy 1 small unit of skirmishers or fast cav and they usually have almost paid for themselves. When it's apparent that I won't be able to assist a unit with a flank charge for a turn or 2, shaving off that crucial rank bonus from +3 to +2 by killing just 1 or 2 models is a lifesaver. It takes a huge amount of pressure off of the unit about to engage and makes it much easier to manage fighting a superior numbered foe without any assistance.
As to the workings of the army as a whole, the +1 to dispel is a godsend against magic-heavy armies who can usually outnumber my dispel dice on just a single spell. It's especially nice against VC (specifically AoS) and TK opponents, who I do fight regularly and who have lots of low casting value spells (be they bound items or incantations). As with Druchii, it is very important for each unit to work with another, since the model count tends to be low and I often look at my side of the field before a game feeling bereft of an army. Another thing that's really different is the switch from harpies to eagles. The eagle is better individually, which makes for a smaller frontage and more power behind attacks. The trade-off comes in where it's only 1 model and can easily lose a combat or get itself killed, as well as only having 2 attacks by itself. I guess it's just a thing to get used to, but the change went noticed as soon as I found myself wanting to be more frugal with them and using them in a pair, almost as unit flyers. Last point on items is a quick plug for the Banner of Ellyrion; this thing is the coolest banner I've played with, probably ever. It's ultra cheap and ultra amazing, so kudos to the pretty magic flag.
Reflecting back on the differences between Asur and Druchii, one of the only things I really didn't like was the lack of options in choosing equipment. Spearelves come with everything already equipped and archers are a seperate choice, unlike Druchii who use the same base and are given items as necessary. Though I guess I would have ended up in the same place (or one similar) if I did have the options, it just felt a bit constricting. One of the few things that made up for this was taking a unit of 7 cav and having them cost less than only 5 CoK with command (before adding the banner), which was nice
I think you have someone on your side, pimp8nez:P
I also like them. Not as much as We or druchii rxb, but they are a great support for repeaters. I know they are expensive, but IMO, a RBT just can'y do it whitout missle fire support.
-Sulam