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Orc Equipment 
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Master of the Red Legion
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I've been wanting to put together an Orc army for a while now and had been holding off for the new army book to come out (and yes it came out a while back, but I got distracted by 40K) and now I think its time to finally put things together.

To preface, I'm not looking for the list to be hard of anything. I'd like it to be solid, but I don't need it broken or anything like that - just fun to play with lots and lots of orcs. ;)

The Question: What's better, 2 chappas or choppa and shield?

With choppa and shield you get more orcs (always a bonus) and they last longer in combat, but defensive orcs seem unfluffy to me and the models will require conversion (I have a lot of the old ones). It also makes them better and grinding in combat, which is nice since I have a BSB so they should continue to stick around, but their combat potential is seriously reduced. With the 2 choppas you get 8
S4 attacks and 3 S5 attacks in that first round, which to me is huge. After that, sure, you'll lose some guys to combat but you're still dishing out a whole whack of attacks. Still, with the shields you're more survivable in getting to a combat to begin with (marginally so mind you).

So, what do you think?

Here's a summary of my list for context:

Orc Warboos on foot with cool equipment. ;)

Orc BSB on boar with banner of dispel dice

Orc Shaman on boar with 2 scrolls

23 Boyz with Choppa and Shield, FC
23 Boyz with Choppa and Shield, FC
20 Boyz with Choppa and Shield, FC
20 Boyz with Choppa and Shield, FC
20 Boyz with Choppa and Shield, FC
20 Boyz with Choppa and Shield, FC

10 Arrer Boyz
10 Arrer Boyz
10 Arrer Boyz
10 Arrer Boyz

Boar Chariot
Boar Chariot

Rock Lobba
Spear Chukka
Spear Chukka

And that's it. Lots and lots of orcish infantry. :twisted:

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Fri May 25, 2007 5:41 pm
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I have been toying with the OAG list alot lately.

Fully equiping Orcs is expensive.

WS3 sucks so there is no point in upgrading WS3 Orcs. You are better off with guaranteed ranks.

Savage Orcs are worth having extra choppas on but no shields.

Big Uns are definetly not worth it and you only need the champion one in each unit anyways. I only take them in 3k games on Boar Boyz.

Try rolling a few dice with some proxy. You will find that you get pretty much the same results if you have only 2 Choppas and less model or the opposite with Choppa and Shield and more ranks. More ranks is a better guarantee. The points more have left the more you have for flanking support units in the form of Savage Orcs and Boar Boyz.

So Choppa and Shield for normal Orcs.

2 Choppas for Savage Orcs or Big Uns.

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Fri May 25, 2007 7:41 pm
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Lord of the Venom Sword
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For basic orcs, especially in a predominantly infantry army, I like the 2 choppas for one reason: Flank attacks.

A big block of orcs is always good if charged or charging in the front, but the big weakness, as with all infantry, is if they get flanked. With choppa and sheild, you are almost certain to lose if you are flank charged by something as small as 5 gobbo wolf riders (I recently rolled up a whole orc army with a single unit of 5 wolf boyz). With 2 choppas though the fast cav unit needs to kill 2 or 3 T4 orcs to have a chance of winning and you have a good chance of doing enough wounds to win combat and deny the fast cav the +1 flank bonus.

So, frontally, I agree the 2 options have very similar effectiveness, but in the whole scheme of things xhws do bring advantages. Having said that I'm undecided on whether they are worth the extra 20 or so points a unit. The deciding factor for me though was the other thing you mentioned; a defensive setup just doesn't seem very orcy does it?

Having said that I scrapped both those ideas in the end in favour of savage orcs with spears but that's another story!

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Fri May 25, 2007 10:48 pm
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Well I really like the list and I’ve also been thinking about starting an army of Orcs after the release of the new army book. But I think your list needs some more hard hitting units, since I don't really think that two chariots will be enough - even though you also have some war machines.

Therefore I suggest you add:
- A unit of Savage Orc Boar Boyz. A charge with two S5 attacks and two S4 attacks for 25 pts, is definitely very hard hitting for the points, but okay they only have a 4+ save which is very low for cavalry, but hey they have a ward save, which of course is very low but still 6+ is better than nothing. I also think frenzy is an upside, but only if you how to screen them.
- A unit of Black Orcs. I know they are a bit expensive but with their new ability to choose which weapons to use in combat, they can surely be very devastating for your enemy. It just sucks that they have lost the quell animosity rule, still 2 S5 attacks in the first round of combat with two choppas are just awesome + they get a decent save. Actually the high cost may be an upside since many may give them a lot of attention, which you can use to your advantage if you go with a smaller unit.

I also have to say that I prefer Orcs with an additional choppa, because they only cost 7 points, for which you get 2 S4 attacks in the first round of combat, because of the new rule. I don’t think that you should drop the choppa + sheild units, but I think you should change some of the units to units with extra choppas.
I also think that a couple of units of Wolf Riders wouldn't hurt, since the list could use a unit or two of fast cavalry to hunt some skirmishers or perhaps even weak war machine crew.

Good luck

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Fri May 25, 2007 10:54 pm
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Master of the Red Legion
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After doing some rolling tests, I'm starting to think that 2 choppas is the way to go. The difference in wounding is obvious (with twice the attacks you tend to get twice the wounds! ;) Although there is some stuff that indicated that you get more than twice the wounds on weaker units - the statistical proof that in fact more dice is always a bit better overall). What is starting to convince me though is the rolling I did that indicated that the difference in armour save makes almost no difference whatsoever (well, its actually pretty obvious when you get right down to simple odds). In many case (when they hit on 3+, wound on 5+) there's only a 33% difference for getting extra wounds if the orcs don't have that shield. This is fairly obviously because your die roll odds change by 1/3 (from 4+ to 6+), but its nice to see it enacted with rolls. The vast majority of the time, this is only a one wound difference, which is a pretty small price to pay for twice the attacks back - especially in combat res terms where you need to get that wound back.

Quote:
Having said that I scrapped both those ideas in the end in favour of savage orcs with spears but that's another story!


I really just don't like the idea of savage orcs - not without forest goblins anyways. ;)

Quote:
Therefore I suggest you add:
- A unit of Savage Orc Boar Boyz. A charge with two S5 attacks and two S4 attacks for 25 pts, is definitely very hard hitting for the points, but okay they only have a 4+ save which is very low for cavalry, but hey they have a ward save, which of course is very low but still 6+ is better than nothing. I don’t think it’s worth the points to upgrade them though. I also think frenzy is an upside, but only if you how to screen them.

Thanks for the list comments - always appreciated. :) I have a hatred going for board boyz in general and a slightly less hatred for savage boyz. Don't know why, I just don't like them yet. ;) In terms of the rest of the army, I'm pretty sure that any decent opponent will shoot the hell out of them right away. I'm also looking for a more tactically challenging and rewarding army to play, which means I'm not much interested in cav. Also, the support units required to keep frenzy under control vexes me (and is one of the reason I won't use witch elves very often, and never just one unit in the army - at least two so the support units can double in purpose by checking two units instead of one).

- A unit of Black Orcs. I know they are a bit expensive but with their new ability to choose which weapons to use in combat, they can surely be very devastating for your enemy. It just sucks that they have lost the quell animosity rule, still 2 S5 attacks in the first round of combat with two choppas are just awesome + they get a decent save. Actually the high cost may be an upside since many may give them a lot of attention, which you can use to your advantage if you go with a smaller unit.

Yeah, I can say I'm very impressed with the black orcs - very impressed. My problem is that I don't want to pay for them. ;) If I find the $ though, I'd definitely be up for including them. :)

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Fri May 25, 2007 11:28 pm
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I've been playing OnG for close to 5 years and have 5000 points and I've always used two choppas even when 2 choppas didn't give the strength bonus. Everyone one else faulted me on it but I liked it.

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Sat May 26, 2007 12:36 am
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I think it also depends on the configuration of the army that you are running. I am using one huge block of Orcs with my Warboss. I don't really want the unit to be more expensive than it has to be cause I use my "elite" 2 choppa units to potect their flanks so their only have to worry about surging forward.

This is the list i'm using. As you can see I have one "core" unit of ORcs then a whole hwack of nasties that will make sure they don't get flanked. The Giant is quite good for hits . I also deploy my Trolls in a conga line next to my Night Goblins to for a trick. So you see, it really depends how your ORc unit "fits in" with the rest of your army. The unit should have a job. My big Orc unit is there to surge forward down the middle of the table to draw units in while my support units try to flank the enemy. So it makes sense to just give the HW and SHIeld

Orc Warboss
-Ulag's Akk'rit Axe
-Light Armour and Shield
-Boar

Black Orc Big Boss Battle Standard Bearer
-Effigy of Mork
-Heavy Armour

Savage Orc Shaman
-Martog's Best Basha
-Collar of Zorga
-Waaagh Paint
-Boar

Night Goblin Big Boss
-Walloper's One Hit Wonder!
-Guzzla's Back Bone Brew!!!
-Light Armour and Shield
-Giant Cave Squig

40 Orc Boyz
-Full Command
-Shields
-led by the Orc Warboss

20 Night Goblins
-Full Command
-1 Fanatic

9 Spider Riders
-Full Command

12 Savage Orcs
-Full Command
-Extra Choppas and Shields

11 Black Orcs
-Full Command
-Shields
-led by the BOBSB(who brings his own BEEF)

6 Khorbad Boyz
-Full Command
-Heavy Armour
-Spears

1 Boar Chariot

2 Trolls

1 Giant

107 Models
2000 Points
4 Power Dice
3 Dispel Dice

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Sat May 26, 2007 2:24 am
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Master of the Red Legion
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I've firmly decided on the 2 choppas. Partly because I think its much more in theme, partly because I think I'll actually get better tactical results, but I think mostly because it decreases the model count in the list from 186 to 168. The percentage difference may be small, but after all that work I'll tell you it'll make a HUGE difference. ;)

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Sun May 27, 2007 12:08 am
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Good choice pal :D. I've played orcs for a couple of years and let's just admit it: more and bigger weapons can never be wrong :D! Your boys don't want some soft shields to fight with, they would look like gobbos! And gobbos are small and weak. Easy as that.

N.

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Tue May 29, 2007 9:37 pm
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I've had some very good results with a unit of 20 Big'uns with Choppas and Nogg's Banner of Butchery. Resilient and painful in all cases.

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Tue May 29, 2007 10:29 pm
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