Nippon/Japan Army Conversion!

Lonely shade · Post by **Lonely shade** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:04 am

I think you just want me to make it off Orcs and Gobbos so we can have an Ultimate Battle-Off.

I think what I am going to do is try various Nippon army lists and decide which works best/if any work well, and then compare them to the solid GW army lists. We shall see the result.

- Lonely

Dictator · Post by **Dictator** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:11 am

I would have to say I would go w/ HE. Simply because the Ld value and low toughness. Plus they get the ASF rule, which has to be very Nipponese style.

Post by **Layne** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:00 am

True enough, but one reason I shy away from Elves as humans is base M5. Of course you could always play them as Elves but simply in game insist on moving them as if they had M4, or indeed M8 steeds. Then again, that movement value is something you pay a lot for with Elves. Just to be quite clear, I'm not suggesting you use O&G models, that's something I'd do... Look at those foundry Samurai, with all their armour, and two big swords, for sure they could count as Black Orcs. Also, the entire range is in the heroic scale, so they're a bit smaller than - say - Empire soldiers, much like Japanese are - taken as an average - smaller than Germans.

For sure you can play them as goblins, and the ones with leather and bamboo armour as Orcs. Or so I reckon. It would have been a much more interesting counts-as with the old animosity rules. Just imagine, a unit of lightly armed peasants start to mutiny, as they want to go home, their fellows think that a cowardly act, as they want to go on, so there's something of a set-to.. and then the Samurai Overlord (Black Orc) comes along with his bloody great sword, knocks off some heads, and puts an end to all that rubbish. The unit marches on!

BTW, before you ask, I'm not adding Nippon Goblins to the Mongoblins, as I'm sure you know, Kubilai Khan failed spectacularly, twice, to invade Japan, so that would throw my historical parallels out yon penthouse window.

Overmind · Post by **Overmind** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:31 am

Lonley Shade, what wa sthat (looks at overmind) comment hmm?

Are you asking me to do something or accusing me...?

I'm quite willing to help and in my own defense none of the ones I found were very well written.

Personally i do also suggest High Elves for Japaneses. The main issue at hand seems to be M5 which I personally can't think of an excuse for but it certainly isn't army ruining.

I think podhammer asked this topic once......... I forget which episode but he is usually a good person for ideas.

Lonely shade · Post by **Lonely shade** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:31 am

@ overmind:

I was looking for confirmation on that point actually...sorry if that was misunderstood.

I will check out podhammer, thanks for the tip. I'm really torn between the different armies though. I am going to try and post some of the different army lists I have found, anyone with the time to read through them please give me your feedback. They will be in my next post, a line of underscores will represent another list. Apologies in advance for any heart attacks suffered.

- Lonely

EDIT:

Okay, that totally didn't work. I spent an hour tryign to post it all in one, but it wouldn't let me, so each post will be a separate army list. Also, moderators, please don't ban and/or kill me. Please!

Lonely shade · Post by **Lonely shade** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:37 am

Deleted because it could have pissed off moderators, was too friggin' long, and was made for 3rd or 4th ed.

Overmind · Post by **Overmind** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:11 am

maybe you should try posting links to them.........

Twould be best I think.

As for the confirmation(terribly sorry for misinterpereting your statment I'm horrible with words sometimes), indeed while over priced is something that can be only truelly found during play testing, most are quite old. I posted the 6th edition one simply as it was the most recent onee I could find. Well the onl,y 6th edition one II had that didn't immediatly sound totally unblanced. I haven't actually stopped yet though. MAybe I'll get lucky.........

I wish you luck on your Nipponese, your welcome to them.

Cathay forever! Long live the Dragon Emperor!

Lonely shade · Post by **Lonely shade** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:13 am

No worries, I have trouble understanding peopel all the time too!

You know what, I think thats a better idea too.

I will leave this army list howver, because I attempted to understand it but it is horrible written/organized and I simply did not understand it at all. Anyone wanna hazard a guess?

- Lonely

Overmind · Post by **Overmind** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:20 am

It's old.

Like 4th-5th edition.

I can't remeber when monster used to be a catagory I'd have to dig through my old armybooks.......

Lonely shade · Post by **Lonely shade** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:38 am

This is the one posted on this wall:

http://www.geocities.com/oldsage.geo/nippon.html

Others are these:

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~dpken/warhammer/orient.htm

http://modena.intergate.ca/personal/tre ... nippon.htm

http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/77 ... t/army.htm

http://members.tripod.com/Zaknafn/id62.htm

http://www.freewebs.com/warriorsofnippon/ (click the army lists link)

http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index. ... 29&t=16384 (you have to search for them but there are multiple army lists posted here)

http://www.talismancy.com/hammer/viewtopic.php?t=6

http://jgrebet.club.fr/samurai/sam_index.htm

http://invisionfree.com/forums/Warhamme ... topic=3072

These are all the ones I could find, one or two that I originally found and saved I was not able to relocate, so they may be hiding somewhere. These are all the results that apply after searching "warhammer nippon" using the google search engine, I checked all links from the first 10 pages. If anybody wants to continue the search/try searchign something else be my guest! If you find another army list please post it here!

The polls are now open! Opinions?

@ overmind:

So is it safe for me to say I will never use it? If so, I will delete it so I'm not potentially banned!

- Lonely

Overmind · Post by **Overmind** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:24 pm

Yes it is quite safe to say you will never use it.

The game has changed quite a bit since then as you can tell.

Pete-h · Post by **Pete-h** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:53 pm

This thread made me smile as my first Warhammer army was a Nippon force (Ravening Hordes back in the days of 2nd Edition - now what ever happened to the Norse?).

I remember that some of the rules were just plain scary with things like the Ninja having a move of 8 (same as a horse), as well as weapon/bow skill of 10 and they could be hidden in units like our assassins. Other fun things were the temple dogs and the rocket launcher.

The army was a mix of the Citadels Oriental Heroes line (some of which can be seen here http://www.solegends.com/citcat89winter/index.htm) and some other manufacturer that I can't remember.

Good luck with the army list and I'll be interested to see how you handle the models.

Lonely shade · Post by **Lonely shade** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:58 pm

If you have experience, could I bother you to read a few of the army lists I found online and share your opinions on them with me? Your not obligated to of course...

- Lonely

Raneth · Post by **Raneth** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:38 am

Lonely Shade wrote:Orcs and Goblins because the gobbos are weak, cheap, and come in large number like the peasants would have, the orcs representing samurai, the trolls being converted orges as silver mentioned, wolf riders being horse archers that are famously japanese (the original trademark of samurai, before the katana), and boar boys being mounted samurai.

Black Orc Daimyo, I almost fell off my chair :lol:

But seriously, this was already implemented for the Ragnarok board game by Rackham miniatures (pay specific attention to the detail on those ashigaru Goblins!) they also use Trolls/bakemonos so take a look for ideas.
http://www.rackham-store.com/boutique_us/liste_familles.cfm?type=normal&num=12&code_lg=lg_us

Lonely Shade wrote:Wood Elves: glade guard being foot archers, eternal guard being peasant soldiers, glade riders being horse archers, dryads being various kami (search shinto for insight into kami and the ideas behind them), wardancers being samurai, wild riders being mounted samurai, treekin and/or treemen being the ogres and something else I cannot think of right now, and waywatchers being ninjas.

I'm with you on the kami, but I think you're off on the melee Elves - imho Glade Guard have more in common with samurai than Wardancers both rules- and fluffwise, Wardancers are better likened to templars (sohei if you will).

Of the two I favour the O&G variant by far!

Lonely shade · Post by **Lonely shade** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:46 am

@ raneth:

Thank you so much! This link be tres helpful! The only thing I don't agree on is gobbos riding giant rats, I have never much liked Skaven. Havest thou opinionations on HE and Empire for counts as?

To everybodies:

I have decided not to use the Dark Elvzes, I already play them and want to play another army with different tactics and whatnot. So it is OG, HE, WE, Empire, or the lists I found.

- Lonely

EDIT:

I am also considering combining/rewriting the lists to make my own, anyone wishing to work with me on that (more specifically make sure it isn't stacked like crazy) I would welcome your help!

EDIT 2:

Geez, the more I look at those models the more I love them! There are three problems with them:

1) All metalz, meaningz pricy, meaningz less moneyz in my pocketzez. I'z needz myz moneyz for myz Druchiiz.

2) Too many ties-ins with Skaven, who I detest. :evil:

3) Few models under the same classification, meaning if I based my army off those models there would be quite a lot of identical miniatures, which I try to stray away from because it takes away from the character of the unit. :cry:

If there weren't, trust my my army would be solely these miniatures. By the way, what game are they intended to be used for?

Overmind · Post by **Overmind** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:10 am

I might be able to assit you in your endeadvours to write an armybook.

Despite my love of Cathay(HAIL!), Nippon could be fun.

Lonely shade · Post by **Lonely shade** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:12 am

Alright! One man on board! Sign-up for the crew! Free board and meals for entire voyage! 50 pounds a day!

- Lonely

P.S. I recall seeing another thread on this (may have been warseer), I will try to locate it and send it to you overmind.

Overmind · Post by **Overmind** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:14 am

That would be fan made project Cathay.

I have it.

Lonely shade · Post by **Lonely shade** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:25 am

Nope, link is here:

http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.ph ... 265&page=1

- Lonely

Raneth · Post by **Raneth** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:34 am

Lonely Shade wrote:3) Few models under the same classification, meaning if I based my army off those models there would be quite a lot of identical miniatures, which I try to stray away from because it takes away from the character of the unit.

Well, it's probably best to convert your army from plastics anyway, as they are
1. loads easier to mess with than metals
2. cheaper (but not much, damn you GW)
3. guaranteed to be truly unique

So uh, stay with standard GW stuff as the base for your army. Avoids nasty 'counts as' disputes altogether and coincidentally doesn't ban your army from official tournaments.

The games those models are used for are:
- Ragnarok, a large scale battle game which rules-wise, has it's best GW analogy in WH40K (only in a fantasy setting, duh)
- Confrontation, the skirmish version of it

I haven't ever played Ragnarok, but Confrontation is pretty brutal.

EDIT
On HE: it's hard not to draw the connection between iaijutsu and the ASF Swordmasters.

On Empire: the army list is so horrifyingly versatile that you will always have the option of a correct representation rules-wise. Well... there's an awful lot of blackpowder in there. The only time samurai and blackpowder weapons shared the battlefield together was during the Boshin Wars iirc... and Empire models are a pain to convert.

Overmind · Post by **Overmind** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:37 am

3. Take in account current Japanese pop culture view of its history

4. Take in account current non-Japanese conception of Japanese history

My only personal problem wiht these people. Oh, well can't have everything I guess.....

Hmm after quick look through what they have it seems well done. Doubt he's looking for help but we might steal some of his ideas....... if of course that is what you wish.

Raneth · Post by **Raneth** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:43 am

Surely you saw the intentional parody? Their best fighter is named 'Bazuka'. Come on.

Overmind · Post by **Overmind** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:51 am

I was talking about the link Lonely Shade posted......

I do in fact see the parody it just doesn't amuse me.

I don't have much of a sense of humour I'm afriad.......

Lonely shade · Post by **Lonely shade** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:26 am

Ya, I tried to post 5 times and it didn't f*cking let me stupid Warseer setup. I haven't actually read through, but if you say so. I want to try to make my own list though, and may need help from people other than you overmind (no offence intended, but I will need more than two people's opinions to decide whether the list is balanced enough).

So far I have found that the lists are either based on 5th or 4th ed. (not sure which) and so have been very confusing for me! I have noticed there is an abundance of rare choices, so I will have to fix that and change some units around as well. Any ideas on how to start on editing the list?

- Lonely

EDIT:

Forgot to mention that I hav eno intentions of using this army in a tournament, so non-GW minis are perfectly acceptable (for me at least). If you have any info/know of a good mini supplier that fits what I am looking for please post name/info/link!

Overmind · Post by **Overmind** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:16 pm

Peryminitures are good.

I've sen several Nippon converiosn based on them.

No offence taken, more people are usually better as it gives more variety.