Firstly, apologies if this isn't the right section, but I'm not sure where this should go. Please move if this is inappropriate.
Hi guys. I come to you looking for aid.
I'm about to start a new campaign for my gaming group and I'm in need of inspiration.
-This will be a map based campaign.
-I want to include basic resource management and map strategy
-I want to avoid the chance of players becoming locked in a corner of the map and being unable to fight anyone other than the same faction
-I want to try and keep it reasonably true to the fluff
The biggest problem I'm having is the map itself and avoiding players becoming trapped. The easiest solution I could find was to have the map as a set of islands, and allow them to "sail" from one island to another, thus having relative freedom of movement.
The campaign is planned to be fun and casual amongst a group of friends, with the main purpose of giving some structure to games and encouraging people to play more.
I've just finished a campaign with the same group, but with fewer players.
Any advice you could give on managing a campaign with this many players would be very much appreciated. Is the Mighty Empires kit a worthwhile investment for such an undertaking?
Many thanks for any help you can offer
Map Based campaign advice wanted
Moderator: The Dread Knights
I've been toying with creating my own Mighty Empires based map campaign rules (I need a big enough gaming group to do it, it's getting there). Anyway, one option that I've come up with to maintain fluff, balance things between books, and avoid the locking problem that you describe is by using a system of campaign points, and allowing different army books to score points in different ways that reflect their fluff. For example, Wood Elves would score a point anytime they drive off another army from forest territories. Dark Elves would score by performing raids and killing High Elves. Chaos would score by razing towns, while Empire would score by building and defending. With these differing motives, each player will have to adopt an individual strategy, thus avoiding static maps.
Also, having players fight out different scenarios depending on the situation on the map will help to make things more dynamic.
If you like, I can send you what I have so far. I started working on this last year and haven't worked on adapting it for 8th yet, but you might use it as a jumping off point.
Also, having players fight out different scenarios depending on the situation on the map will help to make things more dynamic.
If you like, I can send you what I have so far. I started working on this last year and haven't worked on adapting it for 8th yet, but you might use it as a jumping off point.
Lock up your children, shut all windows tight.
The Witch Elves are hunting for victims tonight.
When old hags do knock at your door, you must hide,
Your death is the gift sought by Khaine's pretty brides.
The Witch Elves are hunting for victims tonight.
When old hags do knock at your door, you must hide,
Your death is the gift sought by Khaine's pretty brides.
Can't really give much input for rules, but I found this free hex map creating program rather awesome.
http://www.inkwellideas.com/roleplaying ... pher.shtml
Lets you make a fairly awesome hex map very easily and saves you the cost of mighty empires (if you have access to reasonably priced printing).
http://www.inkwellideas.com/roleplaying ... pher.shtml
Lets you make a fairly awesome hex map very easily and saves you the cost of mighty empires (if you have access to reasonably priced printing).
Army Plog Below:
http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=63015
Scratch Built Druchii Tower:
http://druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=67976&highlight=
The League of Extraordinary Druchii Gentleman
http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=63015
Scratch Built Druchii Tower:
http://druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=67976&highlight=
The League of Extraordinary Druchii Gentleman
When it comes to campaigns simpler is always better, at least in my opinion. It's not fun if you in the middle of the campaign are forced to change some rules, because something you haven't been counting on happens.
With my friends we have been using Mighty Empires that is a good choice (in my opinion). Unfortunately a couple of the Mighty Empire rules has to be changed to fit 8:ed.
With my friends we have been using Mighty Empires that is a good choice (in my opinion). Unfortunately a couple of the Mighty Empire rules has to be changed to fit 8:ed.
-
Eolelfslayer
- Dark Rider
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:29 pm
Hello,
best campaign i ever had was map based campaign that took part in Albion, a couple years after the official dark shadows campaign.
It was based on an hexagonal map, with every faction starting with a big capital city and 2 smaller settlements. Costal tiles allowed for the construction of ports ( a big movement advantage), and each tile you held gave u resources. The first few turns you just had to move and expand, later in the campaign there was lot of opportunity for conflict among rhe players. Play was divided into phases, dont remember 4 sure, but i guess you had something like a winter phase, where all of the forces could no longer move...except the undead!!!
That was, overall, a real top experience.
I did not design it, but i can still offer one piece of advise: gather the players and try to find out what they like, then try to offer it to them in a way they could appreciate and you could handle.
Good kuck!
best campaign i ever had was map based campaign that took part in Albion, a couple years after the official dark shadows campaign.
It was based on an hexagonal map, with every faction starting with a big capital city and 2 smaller settlements. Costal tiles allowed for the construction of ports ( a big movement advantage), and each tile you held gave u resources. The first few turns you just had to move and expand, later in the campaign there was lot of opportunity for conflict among rhe players. Play was divided into phases, dont remember 4 sure, but i guess you had something like a winter phase, where all of the forces could no longer move...except the undead!!!
That was, overall, a real top experience.
I did not design it, but i can still offer one piece of advise: gather the players and try to find out what they like, then try to offer it to them in a way they could appreciate and you could handle.
Good kuck!
I hold a banner drenched in blood, I urge you to be brave
I lead you to your destiny, I lead you to your grave
Your bones will build my palaces, your eyes will stud my crown
For I am Khaine, the god of war, and I will cut you down.
I lead you to your destiny, I lead you to your grave
Your bones will build my palaces, your eyes will stud my crown
For I am Khaine, the god of war, and I will cut you down.
In addition to what I mentioned previously, take a look at the rules from the 6th ed Warbands for experience and recovering casualties. Adopting those allows victorious armies to expand their ranks while losing ones will start to dwindle in number. This will actually force players to attack and retreat realistically, rather than just dance around each other.
Lock up your children, shut all windows tight.
The Witch Elves are hunting for victims tonight.
When old hags do knock at your door, you must hide,
Your death is the gift sought by Khaine's pretty brides.
The Witch Elves are hunting for victims tonight.
When old hags do knock at your door, you must hide,
Your death is the gift sought by Khaine's pretty brides.
-
Underway
- Silver Khaine Winner
- Posts: 2492
- Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 7:04 pm
- Location: Contemplating the construction of my fleet.
Ok there are a couple of ways to do this. Map based campaigns by their very nature cause people to fight each other often. This is not necessarily a bad thing as grudges develop of the hated foe etc etc...
However the most easy way to have a campaign on a map but let everyone fight everyone is create a basic map with a couple of interesting sites on it that have benifits. For example:
1) Wizards tower - any empire that controls the wizards tower gets loremaster for one of their wizards in the next game
2)Dark Forest lumber camp - lumber camp allows the owning empire to have an extra 100pts in warmachines or 2 obstacles placed for them in their next battles
3)Gold Mine - extra 100pts core for every battle
4)Mithral Mine - one unit gets a free magic banner up to 50pts cost
5)Forbidding Fortress - all battles to take this site are fought against a watchtower for the defender. The watchtower allows the empire holding it to automatically win either the setup or first turn in every battle they fight.
Any player can attack at any time any of these map sites. They give interesting but not overpowering advantages to the owner of the site. They also allow for players to expand their empires by conquring territories and holding them.
I would recommend that you use this idea for your resource management.
Each empire starts with two towns and a city. Towns allow you to recruit say 200pts. City allows you to recruit 500pts of anything. You can conquer more towns and territories as your empire expands. You start the game with two characters of say 500 pt limit for both included. Every new battle you play you can select a new army but not new characters. Characters either always survive to fight another day or perhaps you can make up a clever wound table for them.
Players must conquer map tiles in each of their game turns (aka wizards tower). In the beginning of the game when a play nominates a map tile that they want to conquer they can be "intercepted" by enemy forces. One other player can stop them by intercepting their army (play appropriate scenario from the BRB). If the intercepting army wins the territory is not conquered. If the players whose turn it is wins the territory is conquered and the advantages are added to the conquerers empire and next games.
Of course players can then go after the cool territory that was just conquered in the previous turn.
Example of play. Jim (Orcs), Samantha (Bretts) and Tim (Chaos) are playing the campaign. They each start with a city (500pts) and two towns (200pts each) and 500pts of characters that will remain the same for the whole game (barring cool territory rules) so that good rivialries will surface(1400pts total). Jim has first turn, and chooses to conquer the gold mine. Tim and Samantha argue a bit but in the end let Tim try to intercept. Tim and Jim fight with Tim winning. Jim did not conquer the territory so slinks back to his city a little sad. Next Samantha decides to conquer the wizards tower, Tim again tries to intercept but Samantha proves the stronger. She successfuly absorbs the wizards tower into her empire. Now Tim wants the tower, so attacks Samantha's territory, who of course has a tower in her deployment zone and a her damsel (chosen out of her 500 character pts) with loremaster in her army. If Samantha wins every game after has her loremaster in it (though the tower doesn't walk, unless its Haji Baba's)
There can be a bunch of different ways to win the game which is up to you. A certain point were someone is obviously dominant. Someone conquers the two towns of the enemy and lays siege to his city (cool game that). The game runs for a specific number of turns or whatever.
Of course you can always change the points values in the territories, or the character selectiong etc... Only word of caution is to make sure that the starting armies have enough space to grow in comparison to what models you have available. If you start maxed out then you can't grow as easily.
However the most easy way to have a campaign on a map but let everyone fight everyone is create a basic map with a couple of interesting sites on it that have benifits. For example:
1) Wizards tower - any empire that controls the wizards tower gets loremaster for one of their wizards in the next game
2)Dark Forest lumber camp - lumber camp allows the owning empire to have an extra 100pts in warmachines or 2 obstacles placed for them in their next battles
3)Gold Mine - extra 100pts core for every battle
4)Mithral Mine - one unit gets a free magic banner up to 50pts cost
5)Forbidding Fortress - all battles to take this site are fought against a watchtower for the defender. The watchtower allows the empire holding it to automatically win either the setup or first turn in every battle they fight.
Any player can attack at any time any of these map sites. They give interesting but not overpowering advantages to the owner of the site. They also allow for players to expand their empires by conquring territories and holding them.
I would recommend that you use this idea for your resource management.
Each empire starts with two towns and a city. Towns allow you to recruit say 200pts. City allows you to recruit 500pts of anything. You can conquer more towns and territories as your empire expands. You start the game with two characters of say 500 pt limit for both included. Every new battle you play you can select a new army but not new characters. Characters either always survive to fight another day or perhaps you can make up a clever wound table for them.
Players must conquer map tiles in each of their game turns (aka wizards tower). In the beginning of the game when a play nominates a map tile that they want to conquer they can be "intercepted" by enemy forces. One other player can stop them by intercepting their army (play appropriate scenario from the BRB). If the intercepting army wins the territory is not conquered. If the players whose turn it is wins the territory is conquered and the advantages are added to the conquerers empire and next games.
Of course players can then go after the cool territory that was just conquered in the previous turn.
Example of play. Jim (Orcs), Samantha (Bretts) and Tim (Chaos) are playing the campaign. They each start with a city (500pts) and two towns (200pts each) and 500pts of characters that will remain the same for the whole game (barring cool territory rules) so that good rivialries will surface(1400pts total). Jim has first turn, and chooses to conquer the gold mine. Tim and Samantha argue a bit but in the end let Tim try to intercept. Tim and Jim fight with Tim winning. Jim did not conquer the territory so slinks back to his city a little sad. Next Samantha decides to conquer the wizards tower, Tim again tries to intercept but Samantha proves the stronger. She successfuly absorbs the wizards tower into her empire. Now Tim wants the tower, so attacks Samantha's territory, who of course has a tower in her deployment zone and a her damsel (chosen out of her 500 character pts) with loremaster in her army. If Samantha wins every game after has her loremaster in it (though the tower doesn't walk, unless its Haji Baba's)
There can be a bunch of different ways to win the game which is up to you. A certain point were someone is obviously dominant. Someone conquers the two towns of the enemy and lays siege to his city (cool game that). The game runs for a specific number of turns or whatever.
Of course you can always change the points values in the territories, or the character selectiong etc... Only word of caution is to make sure that the starting armies have enough space to grow in comparison to what models you have available. If you start maxed out then you can't grow as easily.
Many thanks for the tips guys, and that's a hell of a repy , Underway. 
I was planning on using some special territories to give flavour to a faction and the regions the control, but I love some of the ones you've posted below.
Army wise, I'm not placing any restrictions on the lists people can use on individual games, though. We have a couple of new players taking part, and many of us are using new armies, so we would most likely want to chop and change and experiment a lot with our lists. Especially as this will also be used as practice for Throne of Skulls.
Taking on board the bits that have been mentioned here, I've got a pretty solid idea of where I'm going with this now.
Definitely multiple starting regions. There will be race specific movement rules (Skaven tunelling, Elven ships etc) which all combined will allow players to fight almost anyone.
I was planning on using some special territories to give flavour to a faction and the regions the control, but I love some of the ones you've posted below.
Army wise, I'm not placing any restrictions on the lists people can use on individual games, though. We have a couple of new players taking part, and many of us are using new armies, so we would most likely want to chop and change and experiment a lot with our lists. Especially as this will also be used as practice for Throne of Skulls.
Taking on board the bits that have been mentioned here, I've got a pretty solid idea of where I'm going with this now.
Definitely multiple starting regions. There will be race specific movement rules (Skaven tunelling, Elven ships etc) which all combined will allow players to fight almost anyone.
I have managed a long-running map-based campaign, where we used the Mighty Empires rules as a foundation.
It worked like this:
Everyone started with 2500 pts in their army roster (units and characters only, no magic items).
Every battle was fought at 2500 pts using units and characters from their army roster plus any magic items from the books.
This way, choices are limited, but there is some choice in what you field in a given game, esp. when it comes to magic items.
The map we used can be seen here (I made it with Gimp and a fantasy mapping brush set for hexes), but it is not super important how it looks.
At the beginning of the campaign, each realm only had their capital city.
The goal was to have the biggest realm, of course. Realm size was measured by number of hexes occupied plus the number of cities.
Every round was played with a number of phases.
First is the Event Phase, where everyone gets a random event card (we made about 20 of those with various bonuses, similar to Mighty Empires, but more balanced). The players with the smallest realms get a bonus here and can draw additional cards.
Then comes the Challenge Phase, where starting from the smallest realm, players choose their opponent for the coming round (but not the same one they challenged during the last round). When the two realms have a common border, both players can then decide whether they want to conquer territory from their neighbour or not, starting with the challenger. It can be any hex that is adjacent to one of their own, and either or both can do this, but have to declare it here. The challenger (only) has the option, to plunder a keep or city (but not the capital city), even one that is not adjacent to his own realm, instead of trying to conquer territory.
Third is the Income Phase, where gold is generated from gold mines.
Next is the Battle Phase, where the pairings that were created in the Challenge Phase now play their respective games. We had this phase last one month, so there is enough time. There are a number of bonuses here, which allow players to field bigger armies than the standard 2500 pts. The leader with the biggest realm gets a 100 pts bonus. A player who is the target of a conquer attempt or a plunder attempt gets a 250 pts bonus, but only if the target territory contains a keep or city. And each player has the option to pay up to 250 gold to increase their army allowance by that many points (the extra points gained this way can also add units to the army that are not part of the player's current army roster).
Afterwards, in the Realm Phase, depending on the result of the battle, everyone gets some realm points (from 2 to 6), which are used to gain new territory, build mines or keeps, or upgrade keeps to cities, and so on. The cost depends on the kind of territory (i.e. mountains cost more to occupy than plains or forests), and using the sea routes also costs more. Non-occupied hexes can simply be added to the realm, regardless of where they are (as long as they are adjacent to the current realm), and regardless of who was fought during the battle. Only when territory is being conquered from another player, then it has to be adjacent to the own realm. You simply pay the realm points and increase your realm's size.
It's a bit abstract, but it nicely circumvents the "always fighting the same players" problem.
As the realm grows bigger, the army roster also increases (army roster size is 2500 pts plus 100 pts for every hex in addition to the one with the capital city), offering the players more choices to use during upcoming Battle Phases, but the size of the battles always stays fixed at 2500 pts (plus the above-mentioned bonuses). That way, the better players do not have such a big advantage over the weaker players, since they both field the same amount of troops, it is just the units they can choose from that might be a bit more limited.
The last phase is used to hire new troops. Gold can now be used to buy new units or characters and add them to the army roster (which is not a legal army, but more a pool or unit choices to build an army from). Keeps and cities also allow players to remove some of their troops (100 pts each) and replace them with different choices, allowing them to tailor their army over the course of the campaign.
That's about it (of course a good number of details are missing here). The campaign is then played over a number of rounds until one realm has reached a certain minimum size, which has been set at the beginning. The one who reaches this size first (and is the only one who has a realm of this size at the end of a round) wins the campaign.
Bye
Thanee
It worked like this:
Everyone started with 2500 pts in their army roster (units and characters only, no magic items).
Every battle was fought at 2500 pts using units and characters from their army roster plus any magic items from the books.
This way, choices are limited, but there is some choice in what you field in a given game, esp. when it comes to magic items.
The map we used can be seen here (I made it with Gimp and a fantasy mapping brush set for hexes), but it is not super important how it looks.
At the beginning of the campaign, each realm only had their capital city.
The goal was to have the biggest realm, of course. Realm size was measured by number of hexes occupied plus the number of cities.
Every round was played with a number of phases.
First is the Event Phase, where everyone gets a random event card (we made about 20 of those with various bonuses, similar to Mighty Empires, but more balanced). The players with the smallest realms get a bonus here and can draw additional cards.
Then comes the Challenge Phase, where starting from the smallest realm, players choose their opponent for the coming round (but not the same one they challenged during the last round). When the two realms have a common border, both players can then decide whether they want to conquer territory from their neighbour or not, starting with the challenger. It can be any hex that is adjacent to one of their own, and either or both can do this, but have to declare it here. The challenger (only) has the option, to plunder a keep or city (but not the capital city), even one that is not adjacent to his own realm, instead of trying to conquer territory.
Third is the Income Phase, where gold is generated from gold mines.
Next is the Battle Phase, where the pairings that were created in the Challenge Phase now play their respective games. We had this phase last one month, so there is enough time. There are a number of bonuses here, which allow players to field bigger armies than the standard 2500 pts. The leader with the biggest realm gets a 100 pts bonus. A player who is the target of a conquer attempt or a plunder attempt gets a 250 pts bonus, but only if the target territory contains a keep or city. And each player has the option to pay up to 250 gold to increase their army allowance by that many points (the extra points gained this way can also add units to the army that are not part of the player's current army roster).
Afterwards, in the Realm Phase, depending on the result of the battle, everyone gets some realm points (from 2 to 6), which are used to gain new territory, build mines or keeps, or upgrade keeps to cities, and so on. The cost depends on the kind of territory (i.e. mountains cost more to occupy than plains or forests), and using the sea routes also costs more. Non-occupied hexes can simply be added to the realm, regardless of where they are (as long as they are adjacent to the current realm), and regardless of who was fought during the battle. Only when territory is being conquered from another player, then it has to be adjacent to the own realm. You simply pay the realm points and increase your realm's size.
It's a bit abstract, but it nicely circumvents the "always fighting the same players" problem.
As the realm grows bigger, the army roster also increases (army roster size is 2500 pts plus 100 pts for every hex in addition to the one with the capital city), offering the players more choices to use during upcoming Battle Phases, but the size of the battles always stays fixed at 2500 pts (plus the above-mentioned bonuses). That way, the better players do not have such a big advantage over the weaker players, since they both field the same amount of troops, it is just the units they can choose from that might be a bit more limited.
The last phase is used to hire new troops. Gold can now be used to buy new units or characters and add them to the army roster (which is not a legal army, but more a pool or unit choices to build an army from). Keeps and cities also allow players to remove some of their troops (100 pts each) and replace them with different choices, allowing them to tailor their army over the course of the campaign.
That's about it (of course a good number of details are missing here). The campaign is then played over a number of rounds until one realm has reached a certain minimum size, which has been set at the beginning. The one who reaches this size first (and is the only one who has a realm of this size at the end of a round) wins the campaign.
Bye
Thanee
-
Underway
- Silver Khaine Winner
- Posts: 2492
- Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 7:04 pm
- Location: Contemplating the construction of my fleet.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/conte ... Id=1400005
Check out that link for the awesome original rules to Mighty Empires. Ahh I still remember my DE empire from the first ever campaign I fought way back in primary school.
Had 5 cities and a port, though chaos was pushing me dearly on the flank. Undead and skaven were hammering each other again and again and the chaos guy had a whole swath of territories with nothing on them. We of course called it the chaos wastes. Good times! These rules were great!
Check out that link for the awesome original rules to Mighty Empires. Ahh I still remember my DE empire from the first ever campaign I fought way back in primary school.
Had 5 cities and a port, though chaos was pushing me dearly on the flank. Undead and skaven were hammering each other again and again and the chaos guy had a whole swath of territories with nothing on them. We of course called it the chaos wastes. Good times! These rules were great!