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How does your DE Army Rate? 
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Beastmaster
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Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:27 am
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Rate your own armies using the Swedish Army composition System

http://forum.sverok.se/download/file.php?id=3153

The beauty of this system is you can put whatever you want into your army including Double Hydras and/or Special Characters.

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Last edited by Lorddrittz on Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:53 am
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Someone posted this up on our local forum and this all I have to say: :badh:

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Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:31 am
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I strongly oppose that system as well. Takes waaay too much time to fiddle around with your comp score and changing a spearman here for a crossbow there means you have to start over.

A lot of the penalties feel very arbitrary as well. -5 pts for each Spearmen over 45? Why would anyone bring more than 45 spearmen in a unit? You get -13 pts for bringing a third unit of Harpies, and then -1 for each Harpy over 25?! Why would anyone ever bring 26 or more Harpies?

The list just goes on and on, thankfully we don't use that system at all up north.


Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:24 am
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Some people go for points denial therefore big units of Spears.

I thought it would be interesting for Druchii players to rate their existing army builds and see where we are comp wise using this system.

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Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:34 am
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Lord of the Dragon Caves
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(300-296)/100=0

I honestly don't see how to build a competitive list and get a comp score even approaching 1.

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Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:00 pm
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This seems like a good example of using complex maths to show something less effectively than common sense.

I know how to recognise cheese in my army, from knowing my army. For example, pendant of khaine on a combat character is cheese. As is taking a hydra in a 750 point list. Similarly, I know if a high elf opponent turns up with Teclis then that's on the cheesier side of things, and same with the dwarf special character Thorek Ironbrow or the chaos special character Archaon. Comp systems are arbitrary and create new imbalances. Easiest way to avoid playing with a cheesy army is to use your knowledge of the army and not pick cheesy choices, and try to encourage that kind of ethos amongst your gaming group. IMO anyway.

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Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:17 pm
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I agree with what your saying Red even though I am less experienced with Dark Elves.

However I like the transparency of knowing what your army composition score is prior to submitting your list to a Tourney for example.

Looking through the DE troops we seem to get hit pretty hard.

The things that stand out are

PoK, Sac Dagger, Crown of Command, our Sorceresses, Hydras, and Cauldron, in particular give big negatives.

The army I took to a recent Tourney got a 0 on the Swedish System :cry:

An avoidance list I built got 10.3.

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Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:59 pm
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Indeed, I see your point. It is an interesting exercise in some ways.

Just ran it through, and I get -32. But the thing seems seriously distorted: most of my points came from having a unit of 55 warriors (which cost me a whopping 78 points - for a unit of core!!!). Same too for my 4 chariots, which set me back 37 points by themselves. I've not yet met anyone who viewed warriors and chariots as being overpowered...

Looking further, the system seems utterly absurd. For example, if I dropped my unit of 55 warriors down to 45, then I would apparently save myself 50 points, making my final tally +18. Can the inclusion of 10 warriors really transform my army from being on the high end of friendly to the depths of cheesy WAAC munchkin overpowered?

Edit: Oh, just read the fineprint on the first pages, I ran mine for a 3k army (rather than the 2.4 to 2.6k recommended), so it's probably more distorted for me than others. Still, it seems broken anyway, for the reasons I mentioned already...

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Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:57 pm
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Ye I had overlooked the 2.4k-2.6k as the recommended points, so my first list so it is probably higher than 0 as it was 2.8k.

The other thing I assume the Swedes are using in their tournies is that you get 0 points unless you fully kill a enemy unit (as in the MRB). This would explain why there are penalties for the larger unit sizes ie: points denial type lists with just a few large blocks.

The Swedish System seems to be encouraging balanced Army Lists if you want a good Composition Score, otherwise take what you want in your list (which i like that for variety).

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Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:05 am
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Lord of the Dragon Caves
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The thing I wonder is whether it is worth even trying for a good comp score since it seems you would have to seriously neuter an army. In the overall scheme, it might be better to zero your comp and make it up in battle points.

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Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:39 am
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Dyvim Tvar wrote:
The thing I wonder is whether it is worth even trying for a good comp score since it seems you would have to seriously neuter an army. In the overall scheme, it might be better to zero your comp and make it up in battle points.


Yeah most tournaments here do use swedish comp, ETC rules, or even combining the two. And usually you are told you -must- have a comp to be in a specific range. The most common is ranges are around 8~15 somewhere.

Some armies even have a hard time to reach that low without some very silly builds (Brettonia comes to mind).


Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:21 am
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my gentleman army (no immortal roadbloc, no dagger, no doubble hydra, no horde of any kind, no flying spam, just a regular balanced list) still rates on the negative side in this system. i think it is needlessly complicated, and wont end up very fair in any case. my hardcore vampire army that is quite cheesy ended up at 12 points i think while my brothers ogres (again a very balanced army with none of the conventional cheese) ended up on minus something.

warhammer IS imbalanced between teams, and trying to patch that is very hard. if you want to play a more balanced game (im not saying it is a better game, just that it is more balanced since all teams get their rules at the same time, not over a period of 10 years) go for warmachine/hordes. its a great complement to warhammer if you have the wallet for both :D

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Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:22 am
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Lord Tsunami wrote:
my gentleman army (no immortal roadbloc, no dagger, no doubble hydra, no horde of any kind, no flying spam, just a regular balanced list) still rates on the negative side in this system. i think it is needlessly complicated, and wont end up very fair in any case. my hardcore vampire army that is quite cheesy ended up at 12 points i think while my brothers ogres (again a very balanced army with none of the conventional cheese) ended up on minus something.

warhammer IS imbalanced between teams, and trying to patch that is very hard. if you want to play a more balanced game (im not saying it is a better game, just that it is more balanced since all teams get their rules at the same time, not over a period of 10 years) go for warmachine/hordes. its a great complement to warhammer if you have the wallet for both :D


Generally how it is played is that you have to post a list within a certain range, say 4-8, 8 -12, 10-16 etc . . . Then armies closest to eachother meet in the first round before you start to play on ranked tables.

And any comp diff is awarded with 100 extra VP per point diff to the army with a higher comp score, generally armies with a bigger comp diff than 8 tend not to play eachother at all in tournaments unless those armies have the highest rankings during the entire game and are both qualified for high ranking tables.

In short, the comp system really was put into place to let people play the armies they wanted to field. Though in some cases it really does produce some weird results, and Dark Elves happen to be one of the armies that are very heavily comped sadly.


Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:44 am
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Yay, my shadestar army got a 9... Qutie nice as there's really few things managing to kill it (Except me playing poorly of course :p).

As mentioned, comps just means other cheesy builds. For instance, when people take away hydras, invincible dreadlords, mindrazor and generally limiting the anti armor units/items/magic, you end up with tournaments full of knight-buses that is very hard to take down.

As for us DE being comped heavily, we should! If not we'd just get top positions in every tournament.

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Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:08 pm
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Omnichron wrote:
Yay, my shadestar army got a 9... Qutie nice as there's really few things managing to kill it (Except me playing poorly of course :p).

As mentioned, comps just means other cheesy builds. For instance, when people take away hydras, invincible dreadlords, mindrazor and generally limiting the anti armor units/items/magic, you end up with tournaments full of knight-buses that is very hard to take down.

As for us DE being comped heavily, we should! If not we'd just get top positions in every tournament.


The funny thing is the other end of the spectrum, Brettonia has so low comp it is hard to build and army that goes below 16 in comp.


Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:46 pm
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Okies working out Comp Score for this list below (ratings on left of list).

Lords 612
-43 General: Supreme Sorceress Lvl 4 on Dark Steed, Lore of Death, Pendent of Kaeleth, Scroll
-20 Dreadlord on Pegasus, sea dragon cloak, Shield, Armour of Destiny, Whip of Agony

Heroes 587
-20 1st Master on Pegasus, Lance, sea dragon cloak, heavy armour, Charmed Shield, Talisman of Preservation
-33 2nd Master on Pegasus, Lance, heavy armour, shield, Cloak of Hag Graef, Dawnstone
-36 3rd Master on Pegasus, BSB, Lance, Sea dragon cloak, shield, Armour of Eternal Servitude, Dragonbane Gem

Core 746
-4 13 Dark riders, FCG
-8 8 Dark riders, musician, Banner, repeater crossbows
-24 8 Dark riders, musician, repeater crossbows
-6 5 Harpies
-10 5 Harpies

Special 180
-7 10 Shades, GW’s

Rare 375
-40 War Hydra
-4 RBT
-6 RBT

2500

300 - 261 = 39 divide by 10 = 3.9 Total

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Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:53 am
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