Dwarves...no longer rumored

[Amboadine]

I am with you on the hope of a more aggressive Dwarf army.
Give me a chance to get around them and to their baseline and get at their warmachines.

Seriously though, it would be nice to see a different type of list to those we are used too.

[Gidean]

Seeing other armies' access to supercheap, very effective fliers, makes me want to take my harpy models and just throw them away.

This new dwarf book will mean trouble for us dark elves. Their shooting, which was already strong against us, has been made better. Their close combat, which was where we could maybe deal with them, has been made better. And now they have been given what they so sorely lacked; mobility and map control, as well. Looks like they have potential to be a very scary, and highly competitive army now. Cannons and multiple shooting units will make short work of armor. Gyros and bombers will rip hordes to shreds. Dispelling like a lvl 4 with no risk of losing concentration, I can see at least my own playstyle have a really, really hard time here.

Preach it brother! We are so vulnerable to shoot it is not even funny. a 5++ doesn't go far in protecting your witch hordes. Now they can take organ guns with 30 in range. The potential for 20 shots. The ability to add +1 to hit with a rune. The ability to re-roll misfires on it with a rune. A special character that is hero level who can give the crew his higher ballistic skill... Then 3-4 Gyro march flying over us and laying down str 3 flame templates with AP. Then when we close in combat we face a General with T10, 5 wounds (shield bearers) wielding a great weapon hitting us with str 7 attacks. All the while his horde of hammers are stepping up taking his challenges.

[Dalamar]

I'm honestly more worried about seeing 3 blocks of tough as nails dwarf infantry in charge range on turn 1 (Ironbreakers in front of witches and Hammerers in front of execs) than an artillery hill. We've been facing artillery for a long time and we all know basic tactics against them.

No army before now was able to vanguard tough combat blocks, effectively cutting you off any significant room to maneuver.

Flame Cannons worry me, but they always did. They should scare the love of the Maw out of the ogres though... S6 (with rune) d3 wounds? bye bye ogre death stars.

I predict flame cannon will be the first thing to be comped 0-1 and heavily restricting other choices in ETC comp. It will be like 50 points in swedish.

[Cold73]

I've not heard anyone complain about the Slayers yet.
These things have gotten very nasty. Even if you kill them they will strike back.
Nasty Enough for us Elves...who can often kill them before they strike...but think of those poor Ogres or O&G players. Slayers get to attack before they do...2 ATT; Hit on 3+ Wound of 4+ no matter the toughness....and after you kill them they get to strike again.

[Gidean]

I've not heard anyone complain about the Slayers yet.
These things have gotten very nasty. Even if you kill them they will strike back.
Nasty Enough for us Elves...who can often kill them before they strike...but think of those poor Ogres or O&G players. Slayers get to attack before they do...2 ATT; Hit on 3+ Wound of 4+ no matter the toughness....and after you kill them they get to strike again.

Actually quite fluffy as they are suppose to be 'Troll' Slayers. I don't expect to see them to much in all comers lists due to being easy targets for shooting. They are also great for taking down giants.

[Clockwork]

Isn't that also true for Witch Elves though?

[El hombre]

yes, but them dwarves can't make them 5++.

[Falstaff]

I'm not sure that vanguard and (rare) scouts + maybe 1-2 gyros are the movement upgrade the dwarves needed in order to become a tournament army that competes for places 1-5. They have lost the anvil move and that's huge!!

There will not be any change in playstile imho as there used to be march and scouting runes before. There'll be gunline with some very tough combat blocks, almost as before..

I will buy my book next saturday, but I have to say that so far I'm a little disappointed.

[Gidean]

I'm not sure that vanguard and (rare) scouts + maybe 1-2 gyros are the movement upgrade the dwarves needed in order to become a tournament army that competes for places 1-5. They have lost the anvil move and that's huge!!

There will not be any change in playstile imho as there used to be march and scouting runes before. There'll be gunline with some very tough combat blocks, almost as before..

I will buy my book next saturday, but I have to say that so far I'm a little disappointed.

Buy the book. Some of the above is incorrect.

[Enkiel]

6 gyros and 2 bomber definately eats ALOT of points in a 2500 pts roster...

jungled a bit with the book and came up with something like this ;

1 Dwarf Lord "unkillable" on shieldbearer
2x Master Engineer naked
2 Runesmith almost naked
1 Thane BSB 5++ vs shooting
2x21 Longbeard with shield and FC
6 Gyro
2 Bomber
2 Organ Gun with accuracy and random rune.

that's... an army??

[Amboadine]

I think this is where the balance will need to be found. It is probably unlikely that you will find an eight flyer list unless for fun.
I would imagine 3-4 max is more likely.
I quite like the idea of a vanguarding dwarf army with flyers but it is a hell of a points sink.

[Underway]

And now that reality sinks in....

Everyone always freaks out about new armies and then they go to make their lists and things almost never look like they did when you first read the book. I think gyros are a bit of a laugh, and will be quickly taken care of by other skirmishers. I don't think they will last long in combat with GW shades, DR, peg master, warlocks or anything else that moves fast. And as pointed out by Enkiel they can only take so many with the rest of the army being budget tight.

I quite frankly am more worried about vanguard troop blocks, and dwarven infantry than fancy copters or warmachines.

The dwarves will be a challenge but give it a couple of months and see as the DE will probably still win enough battles against them to make it fair.

[Gidean]

6 gyros and 2 bomber definately eats ALOT of points in a 2500 pts roster...

jungled a bit with the book and came up with something like this ;

1 Dwarf Lord "unkillable" on shieldbearer
2x Master Engineer naked
2 Runesmith almost naked
1 Thane BSB 5++ vs shooting
2x21 Longbeard with shield and FC
6 Gyro
2 Bomber
2 Organ Gun with accuracy and random rune.

that's... an army??

Here is a combat army I did super quick. 2461 points....

It comes out to 2461 points by my math so you could tweak it a bit.

This is a combat army with lots of anti-magic protection. Still some decent shooting.

Dwarf Lord on Shield Bearers with great weapon and Master Rune of Adamant. Rune of Preservation. 316 points (T10 Lord immune to Killing blows with 5 wounds!)

Thane BSB on Oathstone
Master Rune of Grungni, Rune of Slowness and Strollaz Rune. 245 points

Runesmith with rune of spellbreaking. 85 points

Runesmith with rune of spellbreaking x 2. 105 points

24 Hammerers with FC and Master rune of Valaya on standard. 455 points

30 Longbeards (Core) with FC, shields and Runic Standard of Strollaz. In Horde formation. 445 points

15 Longbeards (Core) with Great weapons, FC, Runic standard of Strollaz + Sanctuary. 280 points

Gyrocopter with Vanguard. 100 points

Gyrocopter. 80 points

Flame cannon with rune of Forging. 165 points

Cannon with Rune of Forging and Immolation. 185 points

So basically your whole army minus one gryo vanguard before turn one. This puts you in charge range on Turn 2 with solid fighting units. Keep them close and the banners aid one another. Put one runesmith in Hammers and one in Unit of Great Weapon Longbeards to give each AP. These two units flank the Horde of Longbeards.

I'm sure I missed some things...

[Amboadine]

Three combat units. I think the mobility available to us should be able to get around and into the rear and flanks. Of course that still means having to deal with them.
If they have vanguarded then the warmachines should be easily taken out by a peg master or two.
I will wait until I have had a couple of match ups to worry as yet.

[Gidean]

Made a mistake on my list. Can't have rune of adamant AND another armor rune. Of well. There are likely better builds for the Lord.

[Gidean]

Three combat units. I think the mobility available to us should be able to get around and into the rear and flanks. Of course that still means having to deal with them.
If they have vanguarded then the warmachines should be easily taken out by a peg master or two.
I will wait until I have had a couple of match ups to worry as yet.

Well, one Pegmaster dies to rune of immolation. That is likely an even trade in points.

[Amboadine]

Missed that rune.
But yes an equal trade.

[Daeron]

I'm not really worried about a vanguard Dwarf army for two reasons:
1) I'd much, much rather fight a combat army head on... So I'd actually welcome the move!
2) By the time my own fast cav troops are deployed, the Dwarf's army is almost entirely deployed. Furthermore, my own vanguard can block at least some of "their" vanguard. If it really becomes a concern... One could field two units of Shades and use the scouting to block the vanguard army. Easy solution.. and it would cost the Dwarfs dearly while it would cost us... ehh... hm. Well.. not much.

I'm not saying a Dwarf vanguard army is easy to beat. With their stats, I noticed that resilience to our shooting, buying time doesn't buy all that much
But it will help take away some of their initiative in choosing the match-ups. And maybe... with their current magic defence, it could buy enough time to draw out a dispel rune... or two.

[Dalamar]

Flame cannons... one thing I'm worried about the most.

[Underway]

It will change the meta that is for damn sure. Suddenly certain choices in everyone's army aren't as great an idea anymore. With that army a gunline had better be ready, as the dwarves will actually make it to your lines for a charge turn 2 or so, and they can take the punishment as good as chaos can. Imagine, dwarves actually getting close enough to charge a gunline! The end times are certainly upon us!

Flame cannons... one thing I'm worried about the most.

I couldn't agree more. Those things are nasty with their new options.

[Gidean]

Flame cannons... one thing I'm worried about the most.

Those templates along with Gyros will hurt us. They are going to gut Ogres and people who like the Troll Armies. Vampire counts will suffer too because they will cook Crypt Horrors and Ghoul Hordes. So yes....I see some meta changers out of this new book. I like the new book on first impression because now battles with Dwarves should be interesting at least.

[Saintofm]

I havn't a chance to look up the rumors or look at the new book.

Besides Gyros, how have things changed?

It sounds the gun line has gotten more dangerous, and seeing the alternite use of the Iron Breakers, I can beleive it.

I also see the Quarelers/Thunderer's in the rare section. Are Rangers rare or thunderers rare now?

[Dalamar]

Flame Cannons can now be runed up and do d3 wounds standard.
They turned from: ok infantry clearers
to: say good bye to your monstrous infantry... oh, you play ogres?

Organ Gun can also be runed up now, it's more prone to malfunction, but less prone to explode (go figure) as you roll 2 artillery dice but only roll on misfire chart if both of them are misfires while one misfire halves the shots from the other one.

Rangers are rare, Quarrelers and Thunderers are both core.

[Gidean]

I havn't a chance to look up the rumors or look at the new book.

Besides Gyros, how have things changed?

It sounds the gun line has gotten more dangerous, and seeing the alternite use of the Iron Breakers, I can beleive it.

I also see the Quarelers/Thunderer's in the rare section. Are Rangers rare or thunderers rare now?

Overall their artillery pieces are more expensive so they can't have as much. The day of 7-8 artillery pieces is probably over. The Dwarf player will want to make some rock hard infantry which they can do now coming close to chaos warriors for carnage and durability.

[Saintofm]

Thank you Dalamar and Gidean.

So war machines are much more likly to be unit killers now (units that can wipe out a unit, or at least a large chunk of it at a time), and yet upped the price so we are not constantly broadsided by them.

Are the base states and point coasts still the same as the old book for units?