Dwarves...no longer rumored

[Grogsnotpowwabomba]

Great thread. I haven't had a chance to look at the new book yet.

Other than the gyros, what other units really stand out in the new list?

What have they done with Slayers and Miners?

Are any of the war machines significantly different?

[Enkiel]

irondrake with rune of slowness looks nasty.

[Gidean]

Thank you Dalamar and Gidean.

So war machines are much more likly to be unit killers now (units that can wipe out a unit, or at least a large chunk of it at a time), and yet upped the price so we are not constantly broadsided by them.

Are the base states and point coasts still the same as the old book for units?

Almost...Hammerers now have 2 attacks each as a proper elite should. Only certain artillery can wipe units. Dalamar's fear of the flame cannon is justified but still a pretty big random factor to it in getting that flame template to drop perfectly. Organ guns have the potential of spitting out 20 shots. But Dwarf BS is low (3) meaning most of those shots will need 5s to hit. If the Dwarf play spends points on a rune of accuracy he can get back down to needing 4s. If he spends precious points on an engineer he might get down to 3s. Still a lot of randomness involved. Because if either artillery dice is a misfire that is an auto -1 to hit on all shots. So in any given shooting phase the Dwarf player might find himself only getting 2 or 4 shots needing 6s to hit from his organ gun. That's worse than our %$#@ repeater crossbows on Dark Riders.

The Gyros are probably the best bet. Guaranteed template placement with NO chance of misfire.

[Dalamar]

Flame template doesn't need to drop perfectly, it just needs to graze cauldron/shrine.

[Gidean]

Flame template doesn't need to drop perfectly, it just needs to graze cauldron/shrine.

My comments are directed beyond our army. I try to view new units etc. in an all comers environment. Hey did anyone else notice that Dwarves no longer have a -1 to their flee and pursues?

[Saintofm]

So how do the new chappas work besides making me want to quote Swartzinager lines from Predator?

[Daeron]

Both, T5, 4+ AS and 3W afaik. The Gyro can throw a rock, like a stonethrower, once per game. It can either carry a steamgun (S3, AP, teardrop template) or a brimstone gun (D3 multiple shots, S5, AP, flaming attacks .. I think). Half of the Gyros can buy a vanguard upgrade for 20 pts each. It's a special choice but comes with a note that permits up to 6 being used.

The Bomber can do a bombing run: by flying over a unit during the remaining moves, it can drop a bomb anywhere over the unit it passed which uses a large template and does a lot of pain (can't remember the details). On a 4+ it will bounce, scatter and explode again. It's a rare choice and not too expensive 130-something.

Depending on their setup they can cause a lot of pain. My theory is that, they're a bit like RBTs: if you field them, better to take at least 2 and up to 4. They are a bit more expensive though, so I'd expect a bigger footprint on their army lists.

[Saintofm]

Are the Gyros chariots, Uniqes Units, or treated like monsters?

Is the bigger one a large target?

Time for more specific Questons

Core (Based on last book, the GW store I used to go to closed down, but I still have the mom and pop one i like):

Warriors: Do they still have Heavy Armor Standard, and can be upgraded to to have sheilds and great weapons?

Long Beards: Are they still relativly the same as before and are there any other changes I should be aware of?

Quarellers and Thunderers: Are they still relatively the same, and what changes have been made t standard equipment and upgrades.

Also what are the best uses, top 3 strengths (Lots of armor, stuborn, ect) and top 3 weaknessess to them (lack of armor, high point coast, ect) of all of the above mentioned.

Not so core Question
How is the anti magic as this was one of the Dwarf's strong points previously?

[Melle]

most of your questions are answered earlier in thread.


thunderers are cheaper now and got heavy armour. quarellerers heavy armour too. same upgrades as before. no more +1hit for thunder. but instead no -for stand and shoot both units.

longbeards no longer an upgrade. separate core choice. same points as hammerer with GW


warriors : you are correct

antimagic: waay worse. rune of balance only work on 4+
harder to spamm spellbreaking runes(max 1/runechar)
runechars channel dd/pd now, no auto.
dwarfs dispel at +2, +4with a banner.

anvil gives 1dd/1pd but cost 170 in addition to runelord...and has 3 crappy boundpells without real synergy (itp,+1armour,2d6 MM)

[Clockwork]

Dwarf Longbeards make my Saurus Warriors cry. WS5, S4(6 with Great Weapons) T4, 5+ AS (4+ with Shields), Immune to Psych, friendly units within 6" re-roll Panic checks, plus they can take a Runic Banner (Vanguard, anyone?), and they get the Dwarf rules of +1 S on charge +1 Ward Save (without having to roll a 6 first, unlike crappy Predatory Fighter), and 33% chance of Hatred every game.

And they are Core - from the same man who thought that Jungle Swarms were too OP to be Core and moved them to Special. Sigh.

I whacked together a quick list that I'd start my Dwarf force around. Its something like:

24 Longbeards, Vanguard, Great Weapons [Shields may be a better swap...]
16 Thunderers, Shields.
30 Hammerers, Vanguard.
2 Gyrocopters
1 Gyrocopter with Vanguard
2 x 10 Slayers
2 x 10 Miners with Blasting Charges (aka Dwarf Commandos)
2 x 5 Rangers
2 x 5 Gyrobombers

Leaving 750 points for Dwarf Lord, BSB, couple of Rune Priests, and either some artillery (Gyros are essentially mobile artillery in this list, so not entirely needed) or Irondrakes (probably going to be a 10 of Irondrakes). The idea is that the list gets right up in the opponents grill and wreaks havoc on the flanks and rear, forcing them to close with the Longbeards and Hammerers.

[Gidean]

anvil gives 1dd/1pd but cost 170 in addition to runelord...and has 3 crappy boundpells without real synergy (itp,+1armour,2d6 MM)

And Anvil is classified as "Warmachine" so auto dies to Purple Sun, Pit of Shades, Dwellers... No smart Dwarf will take it.

Leaving 750 points for Dwarf Lord, BSB, couple of Rune Priests, and either some artillery (Gyros are essentially mobile artillery in this list, so not entirely needed) or Irondrakes (probably going to be a 10 of Irondrakes). The idea is that the list gets right up in the opponents grill and wreaks havoc on the flanks and rear, forcing them to close with the Longbeards and Hammerers.

750 points is not enough for a proper Lord, BSB and rune priests.

[Amboadine]

I do wonder what GW were thinking with the anvil. Surely they must have realised the vulnerability to those spells. I know they have some formidable magic resistance, but still..

[Gidean]

I do wonder what GW were thinking with the anvil. Surely they must have realised the vulnerability to those spells. I know they have some formidable magic resistance, but still..

I suppose one way is to do like the Dwarves use to do and deploy the anvil far back. On the board edge since it is unbreakable. Then ring it with troops and artillery. Most of those killer spells require 24 inches or closer to cast. This of course negates one of the anvil bound spells too. Purple sun has random range and a Rune of Valaya could get rid of it on subsequent turns. Dwellers is 12/24 inches. Pit is 24 inches but scatters. I think 3+ would scatter it right off the model.

You would likely want to make a Thane your general since the Runelord will be out of inspiring presence range often.

Still...the anvil is very expensive for what it brings to the table.

[Saintofm]

Hold You horses, did I hear Bound Spells and Dwarves in the same Army Book?

How in the Blood drenched name of Khaine is that possible, and how else has magic changed for Dwarves?

[Melle]

anvil gives +2 wounds to runelord and 5+ward i think it is.
can join units so no longer immobile. still sucks though.

dont expect to get any of the spells of unless you roll IF.
the runes before were a variant of boundspells anyway ( though unique)so not much big deal making them true bounds now.
except they suck...did i mention that?

normal lord on shieldbearers are waaaay better. +2 wounds,+2 as for 60 points is a bargain.
that is a 1+ AS, 5wound,T5 lord or 2+AS with GW. from just mundane eq.

and runes can add another 2wounds and 1 toughness to boot.

oh, Great weapons can no longer be runic weapons

[Gidean]

anvil gives +2 wounds to runelord and 5+ward i think it is.
can join units so no longer immobile. still sucks though.

No. The anvil CANNOT join units. It is classified as 'warmachine'. Your Runelord and the anvil are on their own. It would have been cool if it could join units like our Cauldron. As it is, because it is a warmachine it cannot even march so why bother?

[Gerner]

anvil gives +2 wounds to runelord and 5+ward i think it is.
can join units so no longer immobile. still sucks though.

No. The anvil CANNOT join units. It is classified as 'warmachine'. Your Runelord and the anvil are on their own. It would have been cool if it could join units like our Cauldron. As it is, because it is a warmachine it cannot even march so why bother?

Doesn't matter if you move 3'' or 6''.
But it can't charge either, so there's a worry!

[Calisson]

Hold You horses, did I hear Bound Spells and Dwarves in the same Army Book?

How in the Blood drenched name of Khaine is that possible, and how else has magic changed for Dwarves?

The anvil has 3 bound spells, at 3+, 4+and 5+.
At any time of the game, there is usually only 1 bound spell worth casting, so expect all PD cast in a single spell.

Fluffwise, that's not much different from Empire priests who use PD to cast prayers, and COB which uses PD to cast a bound "spell".

[Saintofm]

So what do the bound spells do?

[Dalamar]

All dwarfs ItP - power level 3+
One unit +1 armor save - power level 4+
24" 2d6 S4 magic missile - power level 5+

[Saintofm]

Warmachines have largely been covered.

Are Engineers of any kind worth taking, and if so why?

Any major changes to slayers (command, command options, equipment, special rules, Hero Level, and Lord Level).

Perceived roles, advantages, and disadvantages of Iron Drakes. Right now I am thinking heavy infantry with heavy hitting weapons made to take out knights and monsters, although I am guessing they are a move or shoot type?

Are Iron breakers still mostly an anvil unit made to take hits, or have they become more offensive?

Any major changes to minors since last book, namely the explosives and steamdrill.


Are Hammerer's Largely the same?

[Melle]

hammerers : now 2 atacks

miners : ambush now, steamdrill still there

slayers: giant slayer upgrades may take 25p runic weapons
they also have deathblow specialrule meaning if a slayermodel dies it immediately make an out of sequence attack with all weaponrules/runes counted for

dragon slayer went up in prize so no longer a cheap chaff hero
some better rules on them but still no protection so....meh(d3 wounds) reroll wardsave

oh slayers now wound on4+, no cap on max 6 str

engineers....well on organgun. but its wildly debated at bugmans if worth it over runes or combo


ironbreakers: anvil. but with runesmith and getting charge they get 5 str with ap so little more offensive. little :-)