Well, they've been released! I'm an eldar player myself, but nids have always looked like a great army to me.
I've just noticed today that there's been a large number of changes to what slots units use up: Zoanthropes are now elite And warriors are now troops! Also Brood lords are now an upgrade to a Genestealer unit, which I thought they should have been in the first place, but I guess they've got a nerf for it?
Haven't seen a new rule book, but the Trygon / Mawlocand the new psychic powerslook awesome! There also seems to be lots of 'special characters' in the form of 'prime' upgrades(?) and an awesome sounding 'Doom of Malan'tai' as a type of Zoanthrope.
As for models, all the new plastics look great, but I'm not so sure about the new guard - personally I think a better model could be made from a normal guard and some warrior plastics. Not sure what this dude is doing in the elite section - i guess its a mistake?
Any nid players got the book and want to enlighten us with its wonders?
New Tyranids
Moderators: Drainial, The Dread Knights
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Mr_piechee
- Malekith's Best Friend
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New Tyranids
[hope you don't mind my random babel] ~ Take a look to the sky just before you die, its the last time you will ~ my pics
My nid book is on the way. But there's a few things i know for sure.
- When the Trygon enters play, it "tunnels" and further reserves can enter play through that hole.
- The Hive Guard are a new unit (not a replacement to the Tyrant Guard), and have a high powered weapon that does not require line of sight.
- Warriors are TROOPS!!! now have 3 wounds, and better armour.
- Broodlords are no longer a HQ, but an upgrade to Genestealer Broods.
- Carnifex's can now be taken 1-3 as a single Heavy Choice.
- Hive Tyrants got a boost in how they support battlefield troops, can be upgraded so all units within 6" can re-roll misses.
THat's all i know for sure. Book won't arrivce for a little bit yet, it's being sent to me out of UK and i'm in Australia. But VERY excited about the new book, alot of the changes seem brilliant.
- When the Trygon enters play, it "tunnels" and further reserves can enter play through that hole.
- The Hive Guard are a new unit (not a replacement to the Tyrant Guard), and have a high powered weapon that does not require line of sight.
- Warriors are TROOPS!!! now have 3 wounds, and better armour.
- Broodlords are no longer a HQ, but an upgrade to Genestealer Broods.
- Carnifex's can now be taken 1-3 as a single Heavy Choice.
- Hive Tyrants got a boost in how they support battlefield troops, can be upgraded so all units within 6" can re-roll misses.
THat's all i know for sure. Book won't arrivce for a little bit yet, it's being sent to me out of UK and i'm in Australia. But VERY excited about the new book, alot of the changes seem brilliant.
The Warriors as troops, the 1-3 'Fexes as a single choice and new Trygon/Mawloc have me drooling.
Me current army has a winged Tyrant, 3 Lictors, 3 'Fexes and 2 Units of 'Stealers.
Me current army has a winged Tyrant, 3 Lictors, 3 'Fexes and 2 Units of 'Stealers.
Anast: Ws4 S3 T3 D4 I4 0G
Short Sword, Repeater Crossbow, Shade Cloak, lock-picks, choke-wire
Skills: Basic Stealth, Wilderness Lore
Short Sword, Repeater Crossbow, Shade Cloak, lock-picks, choke-wire
Skills: Basic Stealth, Wilderness Lore
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Elric of grans
- Dark Rider
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I got my copy on release day and am pretty underwhelmed by the book, as a whole. There are a lot of gimmicky things, most of which are very poorly done, and a lot of the problems with the old book are still unresolved.
Basically, the Carnifex was nerfed killing off all but two builds, with the Trygon and Tyrannofex replacing the other two. Zoanthropes are much better, but joining Hive Guard (who are also quite good) in Elites makes it very difficult to fit-in anything other than those two if your metagame is mech or hybrid-mech. Gaunts are worse than before, but they now gain great synergy from the Hive Tyrant and Tervigon. If you are prepared to spend 500 points on two MCs to support one or two units of Gaunts, then they are awesome (Terminator-killing awesome). Stealers are cheaper, but fifth edition Rending still leaves them worse than Hormagaunts (who are half the cost). All MCs and their options are a little over-priced, but this only hurts in 1500 points or less. Most of the new units will probably never see play (Pyrovore, Venomthrope, etc), and some of the old units that needed a boost will still not see most people's lists (Lictors, Ravenors, etc).
The book is frequently compared with the current Chaos Space Marines. I consider that statement an exaggeration, but it is similar. A lot of options and variety have been removed, there are a lot of terrible units, and some of the fluff changes are awful (Tyranids are basically Cylons now). Some. Other fluff changes are absolutely brilliant! It is not the worst Codex out there, but the overwhelming response has been one of disappointment.
Basically, the Carnifex was nerfed killing off all but two builds, with the Trygon and Tyrannofex replacing the other two. Zoanthropes are much better, but joining Hive Guard (who are also quite good) in Elites makes it very difficult to fit-in anything other than those two if your metagame is mech or hybrid-mech. Gaunts are worse than before, but they now gain great synergy from the Hive Tyrant and Tervigon. If you are prepared to spend 500 points on two MCs to support one or two units of Gaunts, then they are awesome (Terminator-killing awesome). Stealers are cheaper, but fifth edition Rending still leaves them worse than Hormagaunts (who are half the cost). All MCs and their options are a little over-priced, but this only hurts in 1500 points or less. Most of the new units will probably never see play (Pyrovore, Venomthrope, etc), and some of the old units that needed a boost will still not see most people's lists (Lictors, Ravenors, etc).
The book is frequently compared with the current Chaos Space Marines. I consider that statement an exaggeration, but it is similar. A lot of options and variety have been removed, there are a lot of terrible units, and some of the fluff changes are awful (Tyranids are basically Cylons now). Some. Other fluff changes are absolutely brilliant! It is not the worst Codex out there, but the overwhelming response has been one of disappointment.
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Mr_piechee
- Malekith's Best Friend
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wow... 9 fex's in a 2k army... that would be fun to see! (not sure if you could fit them in that point limit though).
The new gargoyles plastic kit looks pretty good, hated the models before, and now the wings make up for it (still not 100% sure about the arms and guns though).
The Mawloc can reburrow, so I wonder if nids can use its tunnels as well.
Its nice to see the plastic kit for raveners, but not at that price(£27)!
There were rumours of a plastic kit for either warriors with wings or a Hive tyrant with wings....
The new gargoyles plastic kit looks pretty good, hated the models before, and now the wings make up for it (still not 100% sure about the arms and guns though).
The Mawloc can reburrow, so I wonder if nids can use its tunnels as well.
Its nice to see the plastic kit for raveners, but not at that price(£27)!
There were rumours of a plastic kit for either warriors with wings or a Hive tyrant with wings....
[hope you don't mind my random babel] ~ Take a look to the sky just before you die, its the last time you will ~ my pics
Not sure if units can deploy through the Mawlocs tunnel, thought that might have been a rule for the Trygon and the Prime only. Still, can't wait to get the book. It's a shame they have giving the 'fexs a bad go, i'd only just started getting used to having them cheap, now it seems they're back in an expensive arena.
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Elric of grans
- Dark Rider
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The Carnifex lost most of its biomorphs (same as most of the army, though Toxin Sacks are now a DOWNGRADE on a Carnifex) and some of its weapon options. The rules of most weapons have changed considerably too (eg Venom Cannons and Deathspitters are now worse; Devourers are better). In exchange, its cost is doubled. Bio-Plasma has been restored to its old rules, however, and they can drop in a Mycetic Spore. Screamer Killers and Dakkafexes are better than they were before (but still a little over-priced), but other builds are probably not worth considering (or plain illegal). They have a use still, but are very difficult to fit into a list. For assault, a Trygon is better value for points; for anti-tank shooting, the Tyrannofex is better (though, Zoanthropes and Hive Guard are better still).
The Mawloc does not leave a tunnel other units can use, only the Trygon. You cannot build a strategy around it either; it is just something you may or may not get the opportunity to use. When a Trygon Deep Strikes in, a single unit left in reserve (not Deep Striking, and possibly not Outflanking; there is a lot that needs FAQing in the book) may use the hole it leaves in each subsequent turn. If the Trygon does not come in from reserve until late, or everything else came in at the same time as it, you will not get to use the hole.
There is a rumour that there will be a sprue coming out from Games Workshop direct that will add new options for the Warriors. This is rumoured to include weapon and wing options, but no one REALLY knows. The rumour has it that the new sprue comes out next month sometime.
I like the new Gargoyle kit, and their cost makes them even more appealing that before, but the new synapse rules really cripple Gargoyles. They are great value for their points, but very difficult to use effectively. Raveners are unchanged from before, so if you liked them before, buy the kit; if not, save your money.
The Mawloc does not leave a tunnel other units can use, only the Trygon. You cannot build a strategy around it either; it is just something you may or may not get the opportunity to use. When a Trygon Deep Strikes in, a single unit left in reserve (not Deep Striking, and possibly not Outflanking; there is a lot that needs FAQing in the book) may use the hole it leaves in each subsequent turn. If the Trygon does not come in from reserve until late, or everything else came in at the same time as it, you will not get to use the hole.
There is a rumour that there will be a sprue coming out from Games Workshop direct that will add new options for the Warriors. This is rumoured to include weapon and wing options, but no one REALLY knows. The rumour has it that the new sprue comes out next month sometime.
I like the new Gargoyle kit, and their cost makes them even more appealing that before, but the new synapse rules really cripple Gargoyles. They are great value for their points, but very difficult to use effectively. Raveners are unchanged from before, so if you liked them before, buy the kit; if not, save your money.
Ugh... my Heavy Support Carnifexes were monsters, I had them kitted out to the eyes. I must admit that my Tyrant normally did most (in one game literally all, on both sides!) of the killing... but the look of horror on your opponent's face was worth the points in itself. *fond memories*
Well, I'll see what the Trygon-based types are like then.
Well, I'll see what the Trygon-based types are like then.
Anast: Ws4 S3 T3 D4 I4 0G
Short Sword, Repeater Crossbow, Shade Cloak, lock-picks, choke-wire
Skills: Basic Stealth, Wilderness Lore
Short Sword, Repeater Crossbow, Shade Cloak, lock-picks, choke-wire
Skills: Basic Stealth, Wilderness Lore
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Elric of grans
- Dark Rider
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Actually, Crushing Claws are no better for most MCs. They are +D3 attacks, but dual Scything Talons allow you to reroll hits. On average, the free Scything Talons come to more hits. Crushing Claws are only worth considering if you CANNOT take two pairs of Scything Talons (ie Tervigon), but even then they are pretty over-priced in my opinion.
I do not believe we can post point costs on the forum, so I cannot give you the Carnifex cost directly. Take a base Carnifex from the last book, double his cost, then add a Marine to the points.
I do not believe we can post point costs on the forum, so I cannot give you the Carnifex cost directly. Take a base Carnifex from the last book, double his cost, then add a Marine to the points.
I was always a fan of the Scything Talons and Crushing Claws combo: D6+1 attacks... D3 attacks is hardly worth it.
My other favourite for the 'Fex was the Scything Talons and Barbed Strangler combo: +1 Attack and, essentialy, an Assault type Battle Cannon... Is that any worse off now?
That points cost is heinous... My 'Fexes often reached towards 400 points in the old edition as it was!
My other favourite for the 'Fex was the Scything Talons and Barbed Strangler combo: +1 Attack and, essentialy, an Assault type Battle Cannon... Is that any worse off now?
That points cost is heinous... My 'Fexes often reached towards 400 points in the old edition as it was!
Anast: Ws4 S3 T3 D4 I4 0G
Short Sword, Repeater Crossbow, Shade Cloak, lock-picks, choke-wire
Skills: Basic Stealth, Wilderness Lore
Short Sword, Repeater Crossbow, Shade Cloak, lock-picks, choke-wire
Skills: Basic Stealth, Wilderness Lore
@Elric: You can give "whole" points costs, but not the breakdowns. eg, Carnifex with with Barbed Strangler and CC = 234pts.
@Desmodeus: THe crushing Claws now give those attacks in addition to the base attacks of the Carnifex, not as a replacement as they used to be. BUt i believe they're like power fists and will strike at I1, at least, from what i've gathered on the Nid forums.
Scything Talons now allow re-rolls of 1's to hit, and two pairs gives you rerolls on ALL, rather than increasing the ammount of attacks you get. But the Carnifex has more attacks in it's base profile. Alot of people are tending to agree that despite the cool shooting the fex can do, they're far more mellee based in this edition, especially now they can be fielded as a brood.
@Desmodeus: THe crushing Claws now give those attacks in addition to the base attacks of the Carnifex, not as a replacement as they used to be. BUt i believe they're like power fists and will strike at I1, at least, from what i've gathered on the Nid forums.
Scything Talons now allow re-rolls of 1's to hit, and two pairs gives you rerolls on ALL, rather than increasing the ammount of attacks you get. But the Carnifex has more attacks in it's base profile. Alot of people are tending to agree that despite the cool shooting the fex can do, they're far more mellee based in this edition, especially now they can be fielded as a brood.
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Elric of grans
- Dark Rider
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Yes, +D3 attacks, but you swing at I1. A Fex is I1 anyways, but gets a bonus on the charge (this can be modified with a Biomorph). A Fex with two pairs of Scything Talons weighs in at 160pts, whereas one with Scything Talons and Crushing Claws comes to 185pts; the former, on average, is more effective. Godfexes are a thing of the past. They only have three Biomorphs now. One is actually a downgrade (hopefully they will FAQ a fix on this), one is quite useless, and the other is pretty situational. Biomorphs that adjust the stat-line no longer exist in the Codex at all.
A Trygon works better as an anti-infantry assault unit, as it is faster, has more attacks, more of everything else, and only loses out in Strength (but, vs infantry, this does not matter). Deep Striking them is pretty risky, however, as they get shot to death before they get to charge. The Tyrannofex is vastly superior to a Carnifex in shooting (the Carnifex's long range options are pants now), but you pay through the nose to get one. The Carnifex is still the best option for rolling over a tank in CC and has some nice anti-infantry options (Devourers, for example, are better than ever, but you pay for them). Over-all, it is a nice balance, but it is upsetting all the people who have a dozen Carnifex models they can no longer use. I was lucky: I always ran hoard Nids
Personally, I would rather drop a Carnifex in a Mycetic Spore to running a big brood. They are too expensive to take more than one anyway (at 1500 points, which is the usual size in my area; two at 2000 would be easy enough), and are just Missile Launcher bait if you run them up the table now (Extended Carapace no longer exists). On the other hand, precisely dropping them in a sensitive location... yeah, I like the sound of that
You can also hide them behind the Spore, so that they are more likely to live to charge on the next turn.
A Trygon works better as an anti-infantry assault unit, as it is faster, has more attacks, more of everything else, and only loses out in Strength (but, vs infantry, this does not matter). Deep Striking them is pretty risky, however, as they get shot to death before they get to charge. The Tyrannofex is vastly superior to a Carnifex in shooting (the Carnifex's long range options are pants now), but you pay through the nose to get one. The Carnifex is still the best option for rolling over a tank in CC and has some nice anti-infantry options (Devourers, for example, are better than ever, but you pay for them). Over-all, it is a nice balance, but it is upsetting all the people who have a dozen Carnifex models they can no longer use. I was lucky: I always ran hoard Nids
Personally, I would rather drop a Carnifex in a Mycetic Spore to running a big brood. They are too expensive to take more than one anyway (at 1500 points, which is the usual size in my area; two at 2000 would be easy enough), and are just Missile Launcher bait if you run them up the table now (Extended Carapace no longer exists). On the other hand, precisely dropping them in a sensitive location... yeah, I like the sound of that
You can also hide them behind the Spore, so that they are more likely to live to charge on the next turn.ALot of people where saying that the Carnifex's are still quite useful simply because the Tyrgon's etc. Now take ALOT of the heat off a Carnifex. And when running them with a Venomthrope they gain coversaves which can further enhance thier durability, in addition to the running them as three seperate loadouts and then allocating wounds amongst them in order to make them more duarable again.
Can a Carnifex held in reserve emerge through a Trygon hole?
Can a Carnifex held in reserve emerge through a Trygon hole?
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Elric of grans
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No, only Infantry (non-MCs, non-Raveners) can use a Trygon's hole. In addition, they have to be held in reserve and come out the turn after the Trygon, making it a massive gamble to plan your strategy around. At 200 points, I find it hard to justify using a Trygon as a meatshield too, especially when it drops in a single shooting phase. I would use the Trygon only in conjunction with a simultaneous Carnifex attack (ie Mycetic Spore, not Brood), as that forces your opponent to make a very ugly choice. They can kill ONE of them, but not both. The other will make a mess of their line.
Venomthropes are struggling to make people's lists. They are Elites. Zoanthropes and Hive Guard are also Elites. The later two make up your core anti-tank. If vehicles are common in your area, you will not have room for a single Venomthrope. If everyone footslogs, however, they are pretty interesting. Those who have been using them have not tended to find them very useful either. They may save your MCs from a single Raingun/Lascannon shot, but they are vulnerable to Instant Death and pretty squishy, so that one shot it takes to kill the Venomthrope is proving to be all the value they are worth. Again, if your metagame is light on anti-tank weapons, the Venomthrope will be great, but if people tend to take lots of S8 and above, they are not likely to give you much. They are probably better used protecting Termagants, as the Venomthrope is no longer the biggest target on the field, but your swarm is now considerably more survivable.
Venomthropes are struggling to make people's lists. They are Elites. Zoanthropes and Hive Guard are also Elites. The later two make up your core anti-tank. If vehicles are common in your area, you will not have room for a single Venomthrope. If everyone footslogs, however, they are pretty interesting. Those who have been using them have not tended to find them very useful either. They may save your MCs from a single Raingun/Lascannon shot, but they are vulnerable to Instant Death and pretty squishy, so that one shot it takes to kill the Venomthrope is proving to be all the value they are worth. Again, if your metagame is light on anti-tank weapons, the Venomthrope will be great, but if people tend to take lots of S8 and above, they are not likely to give you much. They are probably better used protecting Termagants, as the Venomthrope is no longer the biggest target on the field, but your swarm is now considerably more survivable.
Use the Venomthrope behind the Fex's, then they cover the Venom and he covers them with his special rule.
Will agree that the Elites Section sure has alot of niceness in it now. Those Hive Guard a supposed to brilliant at shooting, and the middle order troops got a buff, i hear that Lictors pretty damned nice.
I can't wait to get the book, it'll be a little while yet though. I still supect my army will be bulked by middle order nids, Warriors, Raveners, Stealers, Lictors, Hive Guard, and then supported by a small amount of objective sitting horde models and MC's to top it off.
Also, wiht regards to the Tyrant, i know they're nasty in support now. But how feasible is the Tyrant with Bonesword/Lashwhip, with Scything Talons and two Tyrant Guard stack up compared to last edition? Are close combat Tyrant Guard still a decent option? Or are people going more for the shooting side of things?
Will agree that the Elites Section sure has alot of niceness in it now. Those Hive Guard a supposed to brilliant at shooting, and the middle order troops got a buff, i hear that Lictors pretty damned nice.
I can't wait to get the book, it'll be a little while yet though. I still supect my army will be bulked by middle order nids, Warriors, Raveners, Stealers, Lictors, Hive Guard, and then supported by a small amount of objective sitting horde models and MC's to top it off.
Also, wiht regards to the Tyrant, i know they're nasty in support now. But how feasible is the Tyrant with Bonesword/Lashwhip, with Scything Talons and two Tyrant Guard stack up compared to last edition? Are close combat Tyrant Guard still a decent option? Or are people going more for the shooting side of things?
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Elric of grans
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Hali wrote:Use the Venomthrope behind the Fex's, then they cover the Venom and he covers them with his special rule.
Yeah, read my note about Railguns and Lascannons. He saves one or two from your Carnifex. I would rather just take a second Carnifex for a few more points. If your opponent has some way of removing Cover Saves (pretty common now), he does not stand a chance. A 4+ Cover Save will not make much of a difference when used like this, and the battle-reports where people do this are showing exactly that. With Termagants he is a winner, but not with Carnifeci.
Hali wrote:Will agree that the Elites Section sure has alot of niceness in it now. Those Hive Guard a supposed to brilliant at shooting, and the middle order troops got a buff, i hear that Lictors pretty damned nice.
Hive Guard have a S8 Autocannon and do not need LOS. If you come up across lots of light armour, these guys are insane. I am still waiting for my models to arrive, and I have been told Games Workshop's warehouse is cleaned out of these guys. Everyone loves them! On the other hand, Lictors got worse than before. They are no longer assault units, having now been turned into a homing beacon. Trouble is, they still start in reserve, so in the majority of games they will not be on the table when you NEED a homing beacon. Even if they arrive on the turn before your Trygon, you payed a lot more points for that homing beacon than any other army in the game. Very, very lame.
Hali wrote:I still supect my army will be bulked by middle order nids, Warriors, Raveners, Stealers, Lictors, Hive Guard, and then supported by a small amount of objective sitting horde models and MC's to top it off.
Warriors got nerfed somewhat, which makes no sense, but I am still trying to find a way to work them into my list. Currently, I am struggling to find the points for them. I just like the models and fluff around them. Warriors built for assault (Boneswords and Scything Talons) look insanely powerful, but I cannot justify their enormous cost (40pts/each, before considering Biomorphs). Raveners are unchanged, and I did not like them before, so they are out for me. Stealers are a little cheaper, but lost all their options (Sv4+, Frags, etc). I am still running Stealers, but people are finding they have lost their bite. Termagants are actually proving the superior assault unit (yes, Termagants, not Hormagaunts). If AV13/14 is common in your area, you would be mad to ignore Zoanthropes in your middle-sided-bug list. Even without, their Blast attack is juicy against MEQs.
Hali wrote:Also, wiht regards to the Tyrant, i know they're nasty in support now. But how feasible is the Tyrant with Bonesword/Lashwhip, with Scything Talons and two Tyrant Guard stack up compared to last edition? Are close combat Tyrant Guard still a decent option? Or are people going more for the shooting side of things?
Flyrants are priced out of the game. If you want a Hive Tyrant, he is on foot. If he is on foot, you want a Tyrant Guard. Tyrant Guard went up in price, however, so more than one is difficult to justify. Lash Whip/Bonesword/Scything Talons is the default equipment on the Hive Tyrant, and I am personally not convinced it is worth the points to change this. Certainly, the Lash Whip and Bonesword are a keeper (both are MASSIVELY improved with this Codex), with only the Scything Talons being in the air for me (reroll 1s? Meh!). His main use is for Psychic Support, but no one is sure how his rules are supposed to be interpreted --- he needs a massive FAQ. Depending on the FAQ, it may not be possible to justify a gun at all. For the same cost as a regular Tyrant (with the no-brainer upgrades), there is a Special Character Tyrant who gets all the same things, plus extras. Most people seem to be switching over to this guy. He is CC only.
Are Boneswords simply power swords now? I know Lashwhips make opponents Initiative 1. It's a shame they didn't make Scything Talons +1 attack and then two sets you get re-rolls to hits, because i'd have to agree, the one set is less appealing than last editions, even if there was a premium for doing so with points.
I've heard that the Tyrants Psychic powers are brilliant through, things like making any unit nearby get the "Preffered Enemy" special rule etc, absolutely brilliant support choices, while still packing a fairly powerful hit.
I always liked Raveners, because of how fast they could get into combat and tie up firebase units which could take so much heat off the other gribblies as they approach. If they stay the same cost, i can still justify them in my list.
Your synopsis of the Venomthrope makes alot of sense, was just throwing some ideas on how to counteract some of the Carnifex's "squishier" aspects this addition, but as alot of things, probably better of buying other things with the points.
Now, more questions:
Warriors, Are they still quite mutable? is making them leaping assault troops still a viable option. I know they've been given an extra wound per model, and I've heard that their armour save is better than last edition, but that wasn't confirmed. Are they still a Synapse creature?
What other HQ choices are there other than the Tyrant and he's special character?
How strong are Tyrant Guard? Same profile just cost more, or stronger in combat?
In general my thoughts have been, Trygon Prime will give me forward Synapse support for faster assault troops, things like the Raveners etc. Assault based Warriors will advance with a screen of termagaunts to cover them off and then sit on objectives with a Hive Tyant to boost thier combat skills. A Carnifex or two for some tank smashing. Hive Guard for some nice shooting power and some Genestealers with a Broodlord to really push home that forward attack mentality.
I'm not a big fan of the Zoanthrope models, but you're spot on, they wouldn't go astray in my list. I just love the Lictors, they're such a cool fluff troop. But the mentality of my army would be, to have units that keep the enemy on the back foot from the start, nasty assault troops like the stealers and Raveners to get stuck in nice and early, then have the Prime pop up.
Meanwhile the main "deployed" units are advancing across the board, Hive Guard shooting away from some nicely covered position. Guessing about that point it should be a mop up job.
The main trouble will be, nothing in the army bar possibly a psychic Warp Blasting Tyrant that can take down Tanks early on. The Carnifex's, although great at what they do, are a little slow to see action.
That's the image i have in mind at least. I love the idea of Tyranids "assaulting" en-masse, something i'd be more than happy to portray in game.
I've heard that the Tyrants Psychic powers are brilliant through, things like making any unit nearby get the "Preffered Enemy" special rule etc, absolutely brilliant support choices, while still packing a fairly powerful hit.
I always liked Raveners, because of how fast they could get into combat and tie up firebase units which could take so much heat off the other gribblies as they approach. If they stay the same cost, i can still justify them in my list.
Your synopsis of the Venomthrope makes alot of sense, was just throwing some ideas on how to counteract some of the Carnifex's "squishier" aspects this addition, but as alot of things, probably better of buying other things with the points.
Now, more questions:
Warriors, Are they still quite mutable? is making them leaping assault troops still a viable option. I know they've been given an extra wound per model, and I've heard that their armour save is better than last edition, but that wasn't confirmed. Are they still a Synapse creature?
What other HQ choices are there other than the Tyrant and he's special character?
How strong are Tyrant Guard? Same profile just cost more, or stronger in combat?
In general my thoughts have been, Trygon Prime will give me forward Synapse support for faster assault troops, things like the Raveners etc. Assault based Warriors will advance with a screen of termagaunts to cover them off and then sit on objectives with a Hive Tyant to boost thier combat skills. A Carnifex or two for some tank smashing. Hive Guard for some nice shooting power and some Genestealers with a Broodlord to really push home that forward attack mentality.
I'm not a big fan of the Zoanthrope models, but you're spot on, they wouldn't go astray in my list. I just love the Lictors, they're such a cool fluff troop. But the mentality of my army would be, to have units that keep the enemy on the back foot from the start, nasty assault troops like the stealers and Raveners to get stuck in nice and early, then have the Prime pop up.
Meanwhile the main "deployed" units are advancing across the board, Hive Guard shooting away from some nicely covered position. Guessing about that point it should be a mop up job.
The main trouble will be, nothing in the army bar possibly a psychic Warp Blasting Tyrant that can take down Tanks early on. The Carnifex's, although great at what they do, are a little slow to see action.
That's the image i have in mind at least. I love the idea of Tyranids "assaulting" en-masse, something i'd be more than happy to portray in game.
So basically, Games Workshop heard how I played, and didn't like that I was undefeated since the new book was released, so nerfed EVERYTHING in my army...
I had a Winged Tyrant, 3 Lictors, 3 fully kitted Carnixes (is Carnifeci correct? I assumed we'd Anglified the name.) and 2 mid-sized units of upgraded Genestealers.
I had a Winged Tyrant, 3 Lictors, 3 fully kitted Carnixes (is Carnifeci correct? I assumed we'd Anglified the name.) and 2 mid-sized units of upgraded Genestealers.
Anast: Ws4 S3 T3 D4 I4 0G
Short Sword, Repeater Crossbow, Shade Cloak, lock-picks, choke-wire
Skills: Basic Stealth, Wilderness Lore
Short Sword, Repeater Crossbow, Shade Cloak, lock-picks, choke-wire
Skills: Basic Stealth, Wilderness Lore
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Elric of grans
- Dark Rider
- Posts: 131
- Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:38 am
- Location: Australia
Boneswords are sort of like a Force Weapon, only a little better. Pairing them makes them a heck of a lot better. These things are now awesome.
Most of the Hive Tyrant's Psychic Powers are nothing special, but one makes a single enemy unit WS1/BS1. Nasty! Preferred Enemy is not a Psychic Power, but it *is* an option. If you pay the points, this ability is always on. Short range, but extremely nasty. I see it as must-take.
Nothing in the codex is mutable any more. Biomorphs went the way of Chaos Gifts. Even Hormagaunts lost Leaping; Warriors cannot take it. Warriors gained +1 to a lot of things, but gained a lot of points (imagine giving them every biomorph from the previous book, then adding a wound for a few more points). They lost Eternal Warrior, but are still Synapse Creatures. They are now Troops, but very expensive.
The HQ is made of the Hive Tyrant (and Swarmlord Special Character), the Tyranid Prime (and Parasite of Mortex Special Character), and Tervigon. The Tyranid Prime is a super Tyranid Warrior, who is an IC(!!) and buffs any unit of Warriors he joins (he make Warriors worth their points, so must-have). The Tervigon is a new MC that produces a random number of Termagants each game and buffs nearby Termagants, and can also be taken as Troops. Obviously, all of these guys are Synapse Creatures.
Personally, I see the Trygon Prime as a points sink. You pay a lot of points to add Synapse that you do not really need (fast assault units all have Rage) and it too unreliable.
Only Zoanthropes get Warp Blast/Warp Lance. Hive Tyrants are no longer able to destroy tanks at all.
The list I am trying to run revolves around Hormagaunts and Genestealers. I also like an assaulty swarm image It seems to have the same problems it did with the last Codex, and I now struggle to get the models I need (I keep getting outnumbered by Space Marine armies!!), but that is how Nids `should' be played in my book.
The Codex uses `Carnifexes', but I am in the habit of `Carnifeci'.
Most of the Hive Tyrant's Psychic Powers are nothing special, but one makes a single enemy unit WS1/BS1. Nasty! Preferred Enemy is not a Psychic Power, but it *is* an option. If you pay the points, this ability is always on. Short range, but extremely nasty. I see it as must-take.
Nothing in the codex is mutable any more. Biomorphs went the way of Chaos Gifts. Even Hormagaunts lost Leaping; Warriors cannot take it. Warriors gained +1 to a lot of things, but gained a lot of points (imagine giving them every biomorph from the previous book, then adding a wound for a few more points). They lost Eternal Warrior, but are still Synapse Creatures. They are now Troops, but very expensive.
The HQ is made of the Hive Tyrant (and Swarmlord Special Character), the Tyranid Prime (and Parasite of Mortex Special Character), and Tervigon. The Tyranid Prime is a super Tyranid Warrior, who is an IC(!!) and buffs any unit of Warriors he joins (he make Warriors worth their points, so must-have). The Tervigon is a new MC that produces a random number of Termagants each game and buffs nearby Termagants, and can also be taken as Troops. Obviously, all of these guys are Synapse Creatures.
Personally, I see the Trygon Prime as a points sink. You pay a lot of points to add Synapse that you do not really need (fast assault units all have Rage) and it too unreliable.
Only Zoanthropes get Warp Blast/Warp Lance. Hive Tyrants are no longer able to destroy tanks at all.
The list I am trying to run revolves around Hormagaunts and Genestealers. I also like an assaulty swarm image
It seems to have the same problems it did with the last Codex, and I now struggle to get the models I need (I keep getting outnumbered by Space Marine armies!!), but that is how Nids `should' be played in my book.
The Codex uses `Carnifexes', but I am in the habit of `Carnifeci'.
Thanks once again for your replies Elric, really appreciate it.
Yeah, i was reading up on another forum about how Synapse now works, alot of people are quite pissed about it, they've added wounds to Reveners and Warriors but now thye can all be insta-killed, which kind of makes it a moot point. THe other main piss off point, is that Synapse now that Synapse makes nearby units fearless, you pretty much only want to escort things in under Synapse then get everything back out of range so that you're not taking Fearless wounds if you lose combat, a mechanic that couldn't have been entirely thought through, especially seeing as things outside of synapse range will advance on the enemy anyway.
Those Boneswords sound AWESOME!!! You have me all excited!!! But sounds like i'll defintely be sticking with the Tyrant as my main choice, whether or not the Tyrant Guard make the list is to be seen.
In light of how Synapse now works, i'd have to agree with your comment on the Prime, 40pts is nice for what you get out of him, but it'd have been that much better if it where on last editions Synapse rules.
How about the Broodlord? I've heard he now has access to Psychic powers in addition to still being a relative badass. If i where to phrase the question differently, would you still think of taking one with your 'stealers.
Another question (i know, anotehr one), what's this i hear about Lictors not being able to assault the turn they are deployed?
In what way does the Tyranid Prime buff Warrior units? More attacks? better saves?
Yeah, i was reading up on another forum about how Synapse now works, alot of people are quite pissed about it, they've added wounds to Reveners and Warriors but now thye can all be insta-killed, which kind of makes it a moot point. THe other main piss off point, is that Synapse now that Synapse makes nearby units fearless, you pretty much only want to escort things in under Synapse then get everything back out of range so that you're not taking Fearless wounds if you lose combat, a mechanic that couldn't have been entirely thought through, especially seeing as things outside of synapse range will advance on the enemy anyway.
Those Boneswords sound AWESOME!!! You have me all excited!!! But sounds like i'll defintely be sticking with the Tyrant as my main choice, whether or not the Tyrant Guard make the list is to be seen.
In light of how Synapse now works, i'd have to agree with your comment on the Prime, 40pts is nice for what you get out of him, but it'd have been that much better if it where on last editions Synapse rules.
How about the Broodlord? I've heard he now has access to Psychic powers in addition to still being a relative badass. If i where to phrase the question differently, would you still think of taking one with your 'stealers.
Another question (i know, anotehr one), what's this i hear about Lictors not being able to assault the turn they are deployed?
In what way does the Tyranid Prime buff Warrior units? More attacks? better saves?
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Elric of grans
- Dark Rider
- Posts: 131
- Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:38 am
- Location: Australia
Not a problem. I need someone else to rant to about this Codex
Synapse has had that Fearless issue for the last two years: that is not new. I have had to keep my Gaunts and MCs separate, else my opponent just stomps Gaunts and causes the MC to auto-die from all the Fearless Wounds it takes. Not all models will advance on the enemy when outside synapse either. Raveners will, but Gargoyles (for example) will either shoot or, if nothing is in range (likely) they run towards the nearest area terrain and stay there until Synapse comes for them.
The Broodlord is now a Sergeant upgrade, and one I find very questionable. He costs more than four Stealers (including the Stealer you buy and upgrade him from) and lost his Power Weapon. What is more, with fifth edition's majority WS/majority T rules, the benefits you pay for do not work in this edition. He gains two Psychic Powers. One is a fairly useless -1Ld for this one assault (if Stealers hit something, and it is neither Fearless nor Stubborn, it already HAS -10000Ld!). The other is nice (roll off: if you win, one model in base-to-base with the Broodlord cannot attack this turn), but not worth all those points in my book. Some people are running him, but I find the extra wounds and attacks of four regular Stealers to be better value.
Lictor Special Rule: they cannot assault the turn they deploy. Simple as that. They deploy like Marbo, but cannot assault until the next turn. This is what kills them. If they could still assault when they arrived, they would be awesome and in my list every game. Their homing beacon would still be pretty hit and miss, but they would be improved just enough from fourth edition to be worth looking at.
A unit of Warriors joined by a Tyranid Prime use his WS/BS (ie +1 to both). Considering he is excellent value for points (95 points with two Boneswords and a Deathspitter), this takes a unit that is on the cusp and makes it shine. A unit of Warriors with a Tyanid Prime is pretty expensive, however, so difficult to fit into a list. I am currently tossing between a Hive Tyrant with one Tyrant Guard, or a Tyranid Prime with Tyranid Warriors. About the same points, and I can only afford one in my 1500 point list.
Synapse has had that Fearless issue for the last two years: that is not new. I have had to keep my Gaunts and MCs separate, else my opponent just stomps Gaunts and causes the MC to auto-die from all the Fearless Wounds it takes. Not all models will advance on the enemy when outside synapse either. Raveners will, but Gargoyles (for example) will either shoot or, if nothing is in range (likely) they run towards the nearest area terrain and stay there until Synapse comes for them.
The Broodlord is now a Sergeant upgrade, and one I find very questionable. He costs more than four Stealers (including the Stealer you buy and upgrade him from) and lost his Power Weapon. What is more, with fifth edition's majority WS/majority T rules, the benefits you pay for do not work in this edition. He gains two Psychic Powers. One is a fairly useless -1Ld for this one assault (if Stealers hit something, and it is neither Fearless nor Stubborn, it already HAS -10000Ld!). The other is nice (roll off: if you win, one model in base-to-base with the Broodlord cannot attack this turn), but not worth all those points in my book. Some people are running him, but I find the extra wounds and attacks of four regular Stealers to be better value.
Lictor Special Rule: they cannot assault the turn they deploy. Simple as that. They deploy like Marbo, but cannot assault until the next turn. This is what kills them. If they could still assault when they arrived, they would be awesome and in my list every game. Their homing beacon would still be pretty hit and miss, but they would be improved just enough from fourth edition to be worth looking at.
A unit of Warriors joined by a Tyranid Prime use his WS/BS (ie +1 to both). Considering he is excellent value for points (95 points with two Boneswords and a Deathspitter), this takes a unit that is on the cusp and makes it shine. A unit of Warriors with a Tyanid Prime is pretty expensive, however, so difficult to fit into a list. I am currently tossing between a Hive Tyrant with one Tyrant Guard, or a Tyranid Prime with Tyranid Warriors. About the same points, and I can only afford one in my 1500 point list.
Hahaha, rant away. It's good to get it out!
I can't believe they screwed up the Lictor so badly!!! HOW did they possibly think it was a good idea to not let him assault on the turn he deploys! HE"S A GOD DAMNED AMBUSHING UNIT!!!
Once again, agreed with the Broodlord, the power weapons was his real gain in last edition as he more or less turned into a genestealer that rends on every hit...which, to be honest, is kind of fitting of his status. I really hate how they do that -LD thing aswell, and it NEVER works on the units that you really want it to.
As for the Synapse Fearless issue, i know that's been present, but it was only in the case when you had a fearless monster in with non fearless expendable mobs that it became an issue, not if the little guys are in Synapse range, they're going to die in droves when they otherwise wouldn't. Which seems to punish you for taking Synapse....which is a bloody stupid arse mechanic if you where to ask me.
That Tyranid Prime does sound awesome though. Let me know how he goes in games that you take him with. The only drawback is...by the sounds of things, i'd rather take the Tyrant because his preferred enemy rule works on anything close, not just the one unit he joined, so the advantages are wider spread...not to mention it's a MC nasty.
New questions, which units in the army still get Fleet of Claw, and Beasts as a special rule? And can Genestealers infiltrate again?
Also, can't the Hive Tyrant now take an ability that allows you to re-roll or add bonuses to your reserves roll?
I can't believe they screwed up the Lictor so badly!!! HOW did they possibly think it was a good idea to not let him assault on the turn he deploys! HE"S A GOD DAMNED AMBUSHING UNIT!!!
Once again, agreed with the Broodlord, the power weapons was his real gain in last edition as he more or less turned into a genestealer that rends on every hit...which, to be honest, is kind of fitting of his status. I really hate how they do that -LD thing aswell, and it NEVER works on the units that you really want it to.
As for the Synapse Fearless issue, i know that's been present, but it was only in the case when you had a fearless monster in with non fearless expendable mobs that it became an issue, not if the little guys are in Synapse range, they're going to die in droves when they otherwise wouldn't. Which seems to punish you for taking Synapse....which is a bloody stupid arse mechanic if you where to ask me.
That Tyranid Prime does sound awesome though. Let me know how he goes in games that you take him with. The only drawback is...by the sounds of things, i'd rather take the Tyrant because his preferred enemy rule works on anything close, not just the one unit he joined, so the advantages are wider spread...not to mention it's a MC nasty.
New questions, which units in the army still get Fleet of Claw, and Beasts as a special rule? And can Genestealers infiltrate again?
Also, can't the Hive Tyrant now take an ability that allows you to re-roll or add bonuses to your reserves roll?