Advice on army background for a newbie

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2 scoops of annihilation
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Advice on army background for a newbie

Post by 2 scoops of annihilation »

Well, to begin with, a bit of info.
I've just about started to play FB now, and I've read up on what background I can, I think I'm fairly well versed for one who hasn't been playing it for a long time. Been lurking here for a couple of weeks, seems like a top notch sort of place.

So I chose Dark Elves because of how awesome they look, because of their Elf connection, and because I like a couple of the themes, in their background. Also because I could get some good trades for my 40k army. :P

Anyhow, so themes - I especially like the themes of falling from grace and vengeance, these are obviously the big ones, and clearly the Druchii themselves don't think they've fallen from grace per se.

I beg to differ. Lots of discussion has likely taken place, but as far as I see it, the Druchii have fallen - not to say that the Asur haven't changed either. So I'm not particularly big on the social darwinism, the murdering, the tormeting, the slavery, and the general evilness. I want the Elves on the Edge feeling, not the Elves Who've Gone off the Edge feeling, the latter of which is of course perfectly valid. So perhaps I should have waited for Wood Elves, but seeing as I want all three sometime anyway... :lol:

As such, a couple of ideas came to be for background. They're just outlines. Please bear with me and tell me whether or not my ideas fit in with the greater FB world. Of note is that all these three do burn with an urge to put Ulthuan to the sword, but they're urge to go back and live there is greater. If these were ever given the option to rule Ulthuan, they'd likely not slaughter the inhabitants first - more likely everyone would starting lving like those of Nagarythe.

Option 1):
After seeing Eltharion invade Naggaroth, a handful of other elves were inspired to do so. A young firebrand, name unknown, rallied a number to his/her cause, and was aided by a few master manipulators from Nagarythe who helped his/her rise to power from the shadows. So a smaller scale invasion was launched, perhaps not even to Naggaroth, maybe Lustria. Perhaps somewhere further north than where High Elves usually land? In any case, a relatively weak point. From here on, I need some good ideas on twists and turns to explain away why they're all now wearing Dark Elf arms and armour. This, I realised, is likely implausible. It's where I'm at with this idea so far. Any help would be nice.

Option 2):
A lieutenant of Malekith's inquisition fully believed in what s/he was doing when the CoP was being investigated on Ulthuan. The debasement of the Elves caused this Elf to lose some faith in the Gods. So, when Malekith was burned by the Flames of Asuryan, s/he shrugged it off and believed M was still a good choice for king. Raising her(oh, forget the slashes) banners for Malekith, she fought and lost the civil war alongside her king, and fled. Since then, it's all gone downhill. She thinks the Elves have lost their martial edge due to this ritualism and mysticism surrounding combat and killing, and this thirst for blind vengeance is turning the Druchii into fools who're rightfully reviled by other Elves, and this whole business with slavery and decadence and ceremony is in actuality why the Elves aren't as powerful as they used to be - they retreat into religion and leave everyone else to do the work. As far as she's concerned, the truly strong would suck it up and build a civilisation that Ulthuan would envy. She feels Malekith is no longer the king he used to be, and that perhaps the Flames of Asuryan were right after all. This, of course, is problematic, because of her dislike of the Gods. Lots of potential here. The problem, again, is explaining how she has an army that can be replenished constantly and has supply lines from it's food production centres, especially considering the Elves here do their own work so not all of them are free for war. Moreover, how do the other Dark Elves who're certainly greater in number leave her alone?

Option 3)
Very similar to two, except this rather more individualistic lass floats her Black Ark off in a new direction entirely/gets lost during the retreat, and settles on an uncharted island or somewhere in Cathay or Ind or what have you, and similar things ensue. This solves the societal issue - there's no other Druchii leaders to tell her what to do and not to do. But it exacerbates the logistics issue. I don't want to have some entirely new teeming nation of Elves popping up in Cathay fully formed; this has to be small scale, and if it is, where do they muster armies from?

Option 4) Some kind of combination of the three. I like all the ideas, but bringing them all together might be even more silly.

As for army construction, since I wound up with some 80 warriors, 10 Corsairs, 10 Knights, and 10 Executioners, among other things, and it fits in with the background, all three of these will have less specialised populations to call on. I'm thinking of perhaps using the Cult of Slaanesh list just so I can have an annointed, who will represent someone who not only does the things that other Dark Elf Lords do, but wrestles wild animals and hunts and farms in spare time rather than trying to stab rivals in the back. I'd use Corsairs for Devoted or something, they look a bit more normal than Witch Elves. SDCs will just count as things to keep them warm/absorb sweat depending on where they are. Executioners will just be used as Warriors with Great Weapons and shields. So they're loaded down with heavy armour, a shield, and this giant sword, I think that can cost them an inch. I have hard times justifying a T4 for a regular Elf unit though, and that may well be why I won't use the list. My regular opponent's a good sort about these things, he wouldn't mind if I told him beforehand.

If you've made it this far, thanks for putting up with me. And if not, thanks for trying. :D
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Moonblade
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Post by Moonblade »

Welcome in our ranks, first :}
Your topic is interesting for me becouse I have some similar concepts. I will fully coment them later becouse now I am in school......
Hae I understood you well: you want to make an army list to play with but you dont want it to be the common one and so you want something like an alternative list using only original models and rules. Just with background difference. You want the army to be different, but still to be with normal rules and so it will be say tournament-friendly.
I have encounterd such situations before becouse I wish to create my own alternative army list to play with. I like Dark Elves but I dont like these cruelness, evilness, unhonour... however :}
Aaargh I wish to say many things but now I dont have time... see you later!
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Lethalis
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Post by Lethalis »

Hey there and welcome to Druchii.net :)

Option 1):
After seeing Eltharion invade Naggaroth, a handful of other elves were inspired to do so. A young firebrand, name unknown, rallied a number to his/her cause, and was aided by a few master manipulators from Nagarythe who helped his/her rise to power from the shadows. So a smaller scale invasion was launched, perhaps not even to Naggaroth, maybe Lustria. Perhaps somewhere further north than where High Elves usually land? In any case, a relatively weak point. From here on, I need some good ideas on twists and turns to explain away why they're all now wearing Dark Elf arms and armour. This, I realised, is likely implausible. It's where I'm at with this idea so far. Any help would be nice.

I think this one has the most potential, actually. The raiding part is good, but they could be captured and sent to the nearest Dark City to be used as slaves. During the trip they break free, and don't scatter as most escaped slaves do but stay together, and travel around, ambushing Druchii as they go and taking their arms and armour. After all, it is not unheard of that escaped slaves form small factions and raid the Druchii. Anyway, after a long trip they reach their old landing place, and are found by the asur navy; however, due to the shame of being captured (and as a consequence, not being able to warn the main army which got slaughtered or something) the leader decides to stay and continue harassing the Druchii. Hence, they get reserves from that point and for all other needs to kill Druchii.

My idea about it anyway.

About option 2, Malekith allows freedom of faith but any form of recistence against his reign will not only be questioned by the Nobles but also dealt with by assassins. 'Nuff said ;)

Option 3 , I think you're underestimating the size of a Black Ark. It's not merely a ship, it really is a floating city.

On a sidenote, Executioners didn't excist until after the founding of Har Ganeth, so I guess you'd need to explain that. It's also clashing with option 2, as Executioners are worshipping Khaine in his aspect of the... (guess) Executioner (good guess). Likewise, the CoP is centered around religion, so I think option 2 is the last way to go here.
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Post by 2 scoops of annihilation »

Hey Moonblade, I'm definately looking forward to hearing what you've got to say.

The list thing is really secondary. I'm just wanting to use the CoP list solely because I don't yet want to plunk down wads of cash to buy effectively sized metal units. Right now what I
could do for a regular DE list is buy some Dark Riders and perhaps some Reapers or Cold One Chariots. Perhaps I could just expand the Executioners and Corsairs to 20ish.

Thanks for the suggestion Lethalis. Couple of things then - how long could a former slave army survive in the wilds of Naggaroth? Moreoever, how would they Druchii not find these agitators' supply drop, as it were? This is one of those things I'm not sure about - in the WHFB world, how fast is communication and travel? Do sorceresses power spells to tell each other the latest gossip about Morathi's new hair or is it reserved or really hard to pull off?

Yeah, Option 2 seems more and more implausible. Because I could see that providing some good opportunity for a story though, perhaps I'll just have one of my nobles be this Dark Lady who's run off to join the rebel horde from Option 1.

Option 3 - hrm. How much has been mapped out? With all this magic flying around during the Sundering, perhaps one of the Black Arks was teleported off somewhere at random, and was beached on a small island? So once they figure out where they are, an expedition eventually finds Naggaroth and the ruler of the Ark decides not to join them since they're nothing like what was expected?

As for Executioners, hrm. I guess it'd be a bit weak, but perhaps they're just Elves with great weapons? This is where the CoP list counting them as warriors might make sense, since they don't have killing blow. But S6 and T4 is OTT though. Perhaps I'll just use them as executioners rules state and not use the killing blow or something. For house rules I could probably agree to a points break for that, or a Swordmaster rule or something.

On a related note - DE armour. Not the specifics, but the overall style. Would that have been what those who lived in Nagaryth before the Sundering wore? Or was it entirely developed on Naggaroth itself?
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Lethalis
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Post by Lethalis »

how long could a former slave army survive in the wilds of Naggaroth?

That depends on the supplies they can find, the asur could give them supplies through the weak point, and the slaves could raid the Druchii that go wander outside the cities.

Moreoever, how would they Druchii not find these agitators' supply drop, as it were?

Well, having a different point each time might confuse them for a while.

in the WHFB world, how fast is communication and travel?

That depends, but when the local Druchii use steeds and peggies to transport messages, you could easily ambush them, and stay out of danger for a while.

So once they figure out where they are, an expedition eventually finds Naggaroth and the ruler of the Ark decides not to join them since they're nothing like what was expected?

After being expelled, they may not even know where Naggaroth lies, nor that it is inhabited. They can think that they're the only true Nagarythians left, and don't explore too much because of the danger of being detected by asur patrols. Ah, the possibilities...

As for Executioners, hrm. I guess it'd be a bit weak, but perhaps they're just Elves with great weapons? This is where the CoP list counting them as warriors might make sense, since they don't have killing blow. But S6 and T4 is OTT though. Perhaps I'll just use them as executioners rules state and not use the killing blow or something. For house rules I could probably agree to a points break for that, or a Swordmaster rule or something.

In the Asur.org Sundering campaign, there was this special troop type called Death Guard, dark elves with Ws5, heavy armour and a great weapon, and they were some kind of elite guard. You could use the Executioner profiles, removing the Killing Blow special rule and lower the cost by 1 or 2 points.

On a related note - DE armour. Not the specifics, but the overall style. Would that have been what those who lived in Nagaryth before the Sundering wore? Or was it entirely developed on Naggaroth itself?

I'd think that the normal troops (spearelves, archers) would have gotten armour and arms from the State, so to say, but the more important ones (guards, silver helms) would get armour to proclaim what region they came from. As such, they'd probably have some spikey things already (on a P&M note, silver helms and dark elf spearelf parts go together really well).
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Post by 2 scoops of annihilation »

Hrm, okay, some mulling has produced this scant outline. I've thought up some notes and dialogue and supplementary characters, and what happens to them, but this is the plan so far, and I don't want to slot in concretes until I get a sense of how plausible this is.

Section 1:
Prior to Sundering, elf becomes a lieutenant under Malekith
Skip a few years, she's all angsty over having to fight Caledorians.
Few more years pass, she's bitter that the North lost. Reminiscing from the sill of a window in a fortress on a nameless island to the east of Cathay, where her Ark somehow wound up. No idea what happened to everyone else, eking out survival.

Section 2:
Old Elf general in Nagarroth, competent, joined Malekith in the old days, one of the few who chooses to go to a Watchtower. She's brilliant at hiding what she's thinking. Basically on about her family and the DE lifestyle, and how she loves and loathes the elves of Ulthuan. Also reminiscing from the sill of a window. Thinks of nasty rumours of a slave army.

Section 3:
Firebrand elf in Ulthuan begins gathering other hotheaded youth to follow Eltharion to Nagarroth. With clandestine aid and subtle maneuvering from Alith Anar's followers, gathers a small army, sets sail for Nagarroth hot on Eltharion's trail.
Bad navigator, or storm, he gets there eventually. Get captured in their first skirmish. In a few weeks his entire force is dead or enslaved. While they're being transported to a city, somehow they break free.
Skip a few months, make some allusion to how they've been finding supplies and such in the wild, and running across Druchii corpses slaughtered by followers of chaos. Plenty of looting, and a rendevouz with some rather sneaky High Elf pirates who bring supplies.

Section 4:
Death night, the elf from section 2 concocts a crazy plan using her daughter, a daemon, an assassin and the cover of night to slip away make it seem like she's been killed. I've got a really good idea for this one. Does the laughing god or Cegorach exist in the WHFB pantheon? I know he's in the 40k Eldar pantheon.

Section 5 & 6 will be about meeting up and fighting each other for a while. No ideas there yet. I'll put up the first section in a couple of days.
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Moonblade
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Post by Moonblade »

Well here I am again... It was later than I expected but...
First of all I wish to ask you what are you trying to make. I really didnt get the point... What army will you play with. which models will you use? What is this background for?
Are you writting only background-story for a common army or you have something deeper in mind. An alternative army list for example according to the fluff.

Fir example at the moment I am making a background fluff foran Ice-colour themed army. I am making an alternative army list, too. I will write some new rules but they will apply to the common DE models only. For example Frost Dragon instead of the Black one. It is the for the background description. As alternative rule it will have cold breathe.
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