Story Concept idea, Elves and Sleep

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Saintofm
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Story Concept idea, Elves and Sleep

Post by Saintofm »

I'm trying to figure a good sleep patern for elves. Lets asume that the Warhammer wold has a 24 hours, 12 split up to darkness (give or take depending on the time of year and region).

I'm guessing elves are similar enough to humans where they are largly day light creatures, with even their better senses are better suited to the sunlit hours.

Would 7-8 hours of sleep work with them?

5-6 at the least with various cat naps here and there.

I'm trying to figure out something for a march, so I'm trying to bounce off ideas.
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Post by Daeron »

There is no rule on this, but the way I "make elves work" in my mind is that they need a atrong synergy with everything around them and their way of doing things.

Why does a High Elf like bright colors, white cloth and radient things? (S)He would feel lesser when surrounded in dark colors, black cloth and bleak things. Contrary, Dark Elves thrive on those things. They thrive in a world where death and murder is radiated in every aspect of their lives.
Wood Elves bond with their woods to such degree that the line between Elf and Tree becomes vague. Place them in the frozen desert wastelands and they'll diminish.

The same can be applied to any aspect of their life and I think sleep as well. I can imagine a Dark Elf, with their love and affinity for the dark, may feel comfortable enough sleeping in a dark cave during day to have a night time full of murderous delights.

So how many hours of sleep do they need? I'd say.. whatever suits their mindset. In times of peace they might sleep 12h and wake up completely refreshed, passive, at peace and in tune with everything beautiful around them. In times of war, they might ration their meal and sleep short nights, becomming grimmer along the way. Slowly they become the aspect of war.. which is why HE's need their glitters, because they don't want to give in to this aspect of war like their dark brethren did.

Anyway.. it's just a theory and how I approach things. In a fantasy world where the laws of physics are but a minor note in the fiber of that world's reality, I try to synergize style and mindset. It just works and makes everything blend wonderfully.
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Post by Nightcall »

There is mention in the Malus comic that he needs a potion to stop him from sleeping at all, he takes one each evening to prevent sleep. From this I'd assume that Druchii have similar sleep patterns to ourselves, unlike Tolkien's elves that don't need to sleep at all.

Where magic is involved, or will (depression, determination) an elf in the Warhammer setting can override his or her instinct to rest or eat. It mentions such a thing in the Gilead story.
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Post by Saintofm »

I'll keep that in mind. In the Malus books they also eat a Lustrian root that is, for all intensive purposes, works like cafine (gives you extra energy, slightly addictive) and dark riders in the last book says there is a coffee like drink using this root and dwarven alcohol.
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Post by Drainial »

Well elves are supposed to live more intensely than humans (in defiance of logic given their longer life spans) and have much higher heart rates than that of most large mammals. If it were me I might take my lead from this and do a little research (wiki should suffice) on the sleep cycles of other animals that live fast with faster perceptions and with higher heart rates like mice and pigeons.

Of course this is pure conjecturer and normally I would simply assume a human sleeping pattern but if their sleep cycle is integral to your story that it what I would do. So far as I am aware there is no official information on it apart from those listed above.
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Post by Saintofm »

I'll try that.

I'm also keeping medieval sleep patterns in mind for this as people slept more lightly then with several sleep periods in the night (largely to use and empty the chamber pot, see if everything is safe and watch for intruders and the like). This is largely due to most forms of artificial light at the time were either far and few between, not that great all things considering (save olive oil, apparently that was awesome), expensive, or a fire hazard.

Edit

I've found something on small animals and heart rates and it's because samller animals need to constantly be on the lookout against creatures that could step on or eat them. Faster heart rate and breathing means they can get oxygen into their system faster without being fired or lunch. Also it is much easier for a mouse due to it's size to have it's blood flow through their entire body than it is a larger animal such as humans or whales.

However this might lead to another issue that, well, doesn't work for elves as theoretically all animals have a set number of breaths and/or heart beats (about a billion) before their bodies give out, which means a shorter lifespan for smaller critters and a longer lifespan for bigger ones. Humans tend to cheat with lifestyle and modern medicine and can get at least double or triple that amount in a lifetime.

Although this might also explain why you never see a fat elf as animals with faster heart rates tend to have higher metabolism to compensate (lack of size means they loose body temperature fast, and faster heart rate and breathing takes energy).
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Post by Nightcall »

saintofm wrote:I'll keep that in mind. In the Malus books they also eat a Lustrian root that is, for all intensive purposes, works like cafine (gives you extra energy, slightly addictive) and dark riders in the last book says there is a coffee like drink using this root and dwarven alcohol.


Courva ;) It's also taken by Witch Elves before battle. I'd say it's more like cocaine than caffeine though, as a user is invigorated with high energy levels and easily enters a frenzy.
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Post by Saintofm »

Nightcall wrote:
saintofm wrote:I'll keep that in mind. In the Malus books they also eat a Lustrian root that is, for all intensive purposes, works like cafine (gives you extra energy, slightly addictive) and dark riders in the last book says there is a coffee like drink using this root and dwarven alcohol.


Courva ;) It's also taken by Witch Elves before battle. I'd say it's more like cocaine than caffeine though, as a user is invigorated with high energy levels and easily enters a frenzy.


I'll also keep that in mind, but from what I can tell there are few things as dangerous as a person who hasn't had their morning cup of coffee.
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Post by Nightcall »

saintofm wrote:
Nightcall wrote:
saintofm wrote:I'll keep that in mind. In the Malus books they also eat a Lustrian root that is, for all intensive purposes, works like cafine (gives you extra energy, slightly addictive) and dark riders in the last book says there is a coffee like drink using this root and dwarven alcohol.


Courva ;) It's also taken by Witch Elves before battle. I'd say it's more like cocaine than caffeine though, as a user is invigorated with high energy levels and easily enters a frenzy.


I'll also keep that in mind, but from what I can tell there are few things as dangerous as a person who hasn't had their morning cup of coffee.


I guess a Death Hag who hasn't had her morning courva/dwarf spirit brew :lol:
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Post by Brad »

I dimly recall there was something in the original WFRP about Elves and a sleep-substitute which was rather unimaginatively called Bran-Wa-Shin or something like that. But I don't remember details.

What it all comes down to is - go with whatever you need to make the story happen. Few readers would question whether or not Elves really need a solid 8 hours every night.
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Post by Saintofm »

Here's something interesting I found on Wikipedia on observing captive animals and the number of hours they need.

horses - 2.9 hours
elephants – 3+ hours
cows - 4.0 hours
giraffes - 4.5 hours
humans - 8.0 hours
rabbits - 8.4 hours
chimpanzees - 9.7 hours
red foxes - 9.8 hours
dogs - 10.1 hours
house mice - 12.5 hours
cats - 12.5 hours
lions - 13.5 hours
platypuses - 14 hours
chipmunks - 15 hours
giant armadillos - 18.1 hours
little brown bats - 19.9 hours


From this, smaller animals tend to need more sleep than larger ones, and herbivores do not sleep very much.

Even then it ranges. Humans, Chimps, and Foxes are very close to each other and so on, so heart rate might not be a factore in this.

How about 8-10 hours for elves? That sound good for the amount of sleep would be unnecessary?

I can also see dark riders and shades, who always need to be alert, having a trait similar to birds and marine mammals where they can have one hemisphere of their brain asleep while the other is awake (it's so they can get some rest but not drown or crash land, and so they can avoid danger.)
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