Crazy idea! I was reading Deamons curse, and than Lhunara made that joke about Malus on Varneth or how did that liitle punk name. WEll since you are often comparing Rome/Naggaroth, how do you think that they will/will not punish you for litlle ***. I mean is it possibloe for example that on druchii party or whatever there are dancing nasty druchii girls/slave girls together? Or that lonely witches and sorceresses who are locked in their cells do sometimes kill some time hm, you know . Well since Malekith can hm, you know his mom why souldnt he be a ,,friend" with Malus ( oh my maybe i see Kathy Griffin too often )
He's asking how -- if Rome is the comparative ancient culture the DE are based off of (which I very much disagree with) -- homosexuality is treated amongst DE. He's also asking if Malekith and Malus are lovers.
Aleraen Gleamfollower High-Consort of Army Wide Hatred
<Sirist> So you won't lose me. I'm still around. I'm just in you, and in everyone I've known.
Hmm...Well I disagree with the Roman Culture thing for we are much more civilised My answer to the question of Malekith and Malus being lovers is....don't go there Girlfriend.
Saldrimek Xenan - WS6 / S4 / T3 / D5 / I3
Equipment: Executioners Axe (Rune of Beastslaying - Heroic Killing Blow), 2 Scimitars (Rune of Speed - Always Strike First), Dagger, Rune Branded Leather Armour, Executioner Helm, Fine Set of Throwing Knives (x4)
Inventory: Amulet of Darkness, Poison Vials x7, Deadly Poison Vials x8
Mount: Dark Steed
Gold: 163
Skills: Ambidexterity, Frenzy, Two Weapon Fighting, Ride
Class: Khainite
You should really learn to form complete sentences instead of just throwing around tons of smileys.
____________________________
I don't see a reason which speaks against homosexuality in Elven cultures. If anything I would guess that they are more liberal regarding that matter than the human cultures of the Warhammer World.
But keep in mind one thing: Witch Elves are religious zealots. They are basically nuns. With daggers. I think sexual activity among the hardcore Khainites (aside from cultic rituals) would be frowned upon, regardless of involved sex.
Same goes for Sorceresses - after all they are "married" to the Witch King - and comitting adultery against such a vindicative and vengeful spouse is something not many Sorceresses would dare pull off (Well, Eldire obviously did but it is just one of the many, many factors which make Malus Darkblade's fate that much more extreme than that of a normal Dark Elf).
With the abundant slave flesh about I doubt that relationships beyond power struggles or political alliances are that common among the higher ups. Further down the chain poor Druchi would have more conventional relationships bacause they lack the income to maintain slaves. Arranged marriages seem likely with only the occasional love match.
The above model is exactly how things worked in Rome as well. Ancient Egypt was similar with incest being intitutionalised for the royal line. The average queen or princess had about 600 servants so there was remarkably little evidence of inbreeding despite the constant incest. Societies not based on religious bigotry usually evoled along the same lines.
Homosexuality was officially frowned upon in all these societies, but far from rare in any of them.
I think that homosexuality would be a disgrace amongst druchii.
any kind of disability (physical or mental) is a death sentence for a baby (which is just one example for their inability to accept things that are not what is considered "normal" by the majority) . and so is magical talent for any person outside the convents. i think they are totally intolerant towards any king of anomaly, and homosexual is an anomaly to them, IMO, as not the majority of the druchii is homosexual (which, inevitably would lead to their extinction).
and there is something else:
dark elves are not very tolerant regarding anything, and if you look at how intolerant so many people still are, regarding homosexuality , although you would think that our modern society should be able to accept it, how do you think druchii think about it???
after all, if someone even says something a druchii doesn´t like he/she wouldn´t be very likely to see the next day, which is just another proof of intolerance...
HUZZAH!
EDIT: just rephrased my post a bit in an attempt to avoid insulting people and express my thoughts more clearly.
Last edited by Mr. anderson on Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
When I think of something witty, I shall put it here.
Id have to agree with Mr Anderson on this one. the intolerance of DE is well known.
And they refered to the HE King Morvael as a "prancing, effete scholar" while stereotypical says a lot about how they veiw "that" sort of behavior.
How does "anomaly" as in "homosexuality" (an association which is debatable anyways) translate to "weakness"/"disability"?
It doesn't.
Homosexual Druchii might be frowned upon for not contributing to the pool of offspring but I doubt that this translates to an automatic "death sentence".
In Naggaroth, if you show weaknesses, you are prey. If you appear strong, you survive. This has nothing to do with one's sexuality, though. A Dark Elf - no matter which sexual preferencs he/she harbours - will not reveal more from his private life to the public than they really have to to in order to minimize exposure (and a possible vulnerability resulting from it).
Elves are not humans therefore you can't just apply human morale standards and mindsets on them - like modern today's tolerance in western cultures.
Cenyu wrote:How does "anomaly" as in "homosexuality" (an association which is debatable anyways) translate to "weakness"/"disability"?
It doesn't.
Homosexual Druchii might be frowned upon for not contributing to the pool of offspring but I doubt that this translates to an automatic "death sentence".
In Naggaroth, if you show weaknesses, you are prey. If you appear strong, you survive. This has nothing to do with one's sexuality, though. A Dark Elf - no matter which sexual preferencs he/she harbours - will not reveal more from his private life to the public than they really have to to in order to minimize exposure (and a possible vulnerability resulting from it).
Elves are not humans therefore you can't just apply human morale standards and mindsets on them - like modern today's tolerance in western cultures.
completely disagreed.
Homosexuality and disability are not related in any way. i just took these examples to show how intolerant druchii are regarding ANY anomaly. no matter what.
i didn´t say that it means an automatic death sentence either, it just means that you are unlikely to get into any position with power since you won´t have a lot of respect due to your sexual tendencies.
i didn´t apply human morale standards to them, Cenyu. if you apply human morale to druchii they would all deserve lifelong jail (or death sentence, some might say).
in fact, i would say you have to take the complete opposite of human ethic and morale: kindness doesn´t mean you have friends, murder is seen as a necessity, mercy is disgraced and tolerance is not known of. what else could i say?
HUZZAH!
When I think of something witty, I shall put it here.
Mr. Anderson wrote:dark elves are not very tolerant regarding anything, and if you look at how intolerant so many people still are, regarding homosexuality , although you would think that our modern society should be able to accept it, how do you think druchii think about it???
The modern western view is shaped by Jewish and Christian monotheistic bigotry regarding homosexualtity, it was or is a crime in all western countries. Societies without this background expected a member of society to do their duty as far as marriage and children were conserned, their actual lovers and preferences were irrelevant as long as appreances were met.
Mind you people. This is Fantasy. Not based upon Real World.
And that is why this discussion is difficult to determine. We all have our own pre concieved notions based on where we live and how we were brought up.
And applying them to the warhammer setting is diffucult at best, as eveyones opinion is different.
Yes there probably is homesexuality in the warhammer world but for GW to come right out and say it would be a very big step, because like it or not there would be a backlash.
When engaging in a Fantasy Wargame set in an imaginary milieu, there are many `possibilities` for discussion regarding the Races involved, and their idiosyncracies.
As far as discussing their sexual preferences...well...I`m afraid I just don`t go there. I just fail to see it`s relevance to anything related to the Druchii in the Warhammer World.
Likewise, peoples sexual orientation is immaterial to me. Good peoples is good peoples. That`s all.
But, if debating such things does it for you...go for it.
I'd just like to say, that before you take this discussion further, if you do, then pick your words carefully. Already once in this thread was a sentence which could be translated as "homosexuality is comparable to disabillty". Of course anybody is entitled to their own views, but just try not to write anything that might upset anyone. Right?
To give my view on the discussion, I believe homosexuality could be very much accepted in elven cultures, at the least among the High Elves, as they are described as beings that hallows anythin beautiful. I don't think sexes are such a boundary for a creature that thinks much in aestethincs and beauty. The DE would be a bit different. It all boils down to how cruel you believe their society to be. Personally, I don't think it is frowned upon, but in a culture that, to me, does not habour much love anyway, I actually don't believe there would be many cases of homosexuality. I believe that they don't even marry out of love, but from practical reasons mostly. But that's just my take.
In ym opinion Druchii are actually tlorating almost everything as long as it isnt against will of the Witchking, Khaine or against their own gaining.
Malekith didnt forbid Cult of Pleasur because he distasted some poerve rituals, but because he wanted to get rid of warlocks. Every Law he made he made because its good for him not beacuse he belive its GOOD.
Well as about religion- religion in Naggaroith isnt what say priestesses, but what say Malekith.
Homosexuality can be actually kind of strengh in Land of Chill because being lured by beauty of druchii women ( most dangerous women on Warhammer ) is very dangerous.
What about bisexuality then they can still have kids for whatever reason but are free to please themselves however they want. Similar to ancient Macedonia or Greece
I usually don't contribute to many discussions unless it on the paint/modelling threads or army lists threads, but this one sparks my interest...
Elves are not humans therefore you can't just apply human morale standards and mindsets on them - like modern today's tolerance in western cultures.
This is interesting statment because the elven world was created by us humans...We created the races that are being played and debated. The Dark elf world and boundaries and guidelines to their society has be written down and layed out by our human mind.
So You have a race that is fictional with decriptions of how their fictional society works....Their is some references in those descriptions of sexual encounters...(ie. Malus and his sister..Slaves being forced into large orgies of sex and slaughter). Until their is written, by human mind you, a specific encounter between two male dark elves...then it is all just heresay and guessing....
Good debate though...I definately enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts.
*edit* Btw..OHH Holy moderators please excuse me for what I am about to say @Sezax - Please write better. I am sure you are intelligent enough to use punctuation and put sentences together. Your post made as much sense as a cold one trying to mate with a dragon...Huh, what? Exactly!
I'm going to be watching this one like a hawk. This is one of those topics that I don't generally like to discuss because either
1) Someone gets offended
2) There's nothing in the established background to support any conclusion.
As far as discussing their sexual preferences...well...I`m afraid I just don`t go there. I just fail to see it`s relevance to anything related to the Druchii in the Warhammer World.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Druchii Discussion and History mod
Behind every mask, is a man
who can't live in his own skin.
He lives by the flask.
He bathes in his past
and dies of his own sins
Well if your looking for a civilisation that Druchii are based off I think that the greeks would be a better place to look and they definatly didn't care about homeosexuality. Personaly though I think that it would be largly acsepted. Think about it, the majority of elves are going to live for a thousand years+. In that time I think I little experimentation is more that likly to occur for almost everyone. I would think that many elves are bisexual. Also given that both sexes are seen as equal in almost every way I dont think that gender has the smae importance to Dark elves as it does to any human culture of any time.
Moding a group of Druchii.net players is much like directing the musical 'Cats' using actual cats. Frustrating, difficult, chaotic but ultimatley satisfying and a great deal of fun.
Arch Deacon of the RPG forum Gentleman of Moderation
My view on it is this. Power wins. If a druchii highborn is homosexual... he is strong and important enough that he can indulge however he wants without much more than a few things murmured behind his back. However, since so much of druchii society (especially amongst the nobility) revolves around having a strong family... Said highborn would likely still have a druchii wife and have several druchii children... mostly for the sake of keeping his family strong.
The lower classes, I suspect... have less access to slaves and servants, and are thus, likely more restricted in what they can do. ultimately all concerns of sex or family are second to the military and the wishes of their lords. i figure that homosexuality is seen as an indulgence that only the powerful can afford. If two common soldiers want to get it on in their spare time... that's fine. But if it distracts them from doing what they're ordered to do... they're done for.
It's the same in any society. The people who are at the top have much more freedom to indulge in this and that. Especially given how much the cult of Slaanesh is wormed into Druchii society. Granted, now that the civil war has been fought AGAINST them... Druchii society may become more harsh on homosexual pairings... seeing them as based entirely on lust. (Since really... no children can come from them) A post civil war Naggaroth may be a much more strict place... or may not... We'll know when our book comes out.
The "prancing, effete scholar" thing i think... is more a mark of disgust for the high elves and their lack of focus around the hard, military life. (But strangely, they're the best warriors on the planet. jerks.) What the druchii despise is weakness. You just need to remember that not every character who is gay or bisexual is a prancing, flaming stereotype with limp wrists like Jack from Will and Grace. a homosexual druchii strikes me more as the kind of guy who rapes you in prison.
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Drainial Shadowheart wrote:Well if your looking for a civilisation that Druchii are based off I think that the greeks would be a better place to look and they definatly didn't care about homeosexuality. Personaly though I think that it would be largly acsepted. Think about it, the majority of elves are going to live for a thousand years+. In that time I think I little experimentation is more that likly to occur for almost everyone. I would think that many elves are bisexual. Also given that both sexes are seen as equal in almost every way I dont think that gender has the smae importance to Dark elves as it does to any human culture of any time.
The Greeks had a incredibly masoginistic culture where only a few percent had any power and were homosexualty was a captial offence. You could rape slave women and little boys to your heart's content, but sex between to males over the age of 25 or so was a capital offence - pedaphelia was accepted, not homosexualty. The Romans and Egyptians are definitely a better model.
Otherwise agree with everything. I tend to see the elves as beyond sexualty in the usual sense.
Your wrong, just wrong. Homeosexuality amungst adults was fine. Alexander the great himself was reputed to be very friendly with some of his generals and soldiers.
Moding a group of Druchii.net players is much like directing the musical 'Cats' using actual cats. Frustrating, difficult, chaotic but ultimatley satisfying and a great deal of fun.
Arch Deacon of the RPG forum Gentleman of Moderation
Drainial Shadowheart wrote:Your wrong, just wrong. Homeosexuality amungst adults was fine. Alexander the great himself was reputed to be very friendly with some of his generals and soldiers.
Well he WAS Alexander the Great. Power and status mean everything. They make the rules, and they can ignore or change them. That's exactly what I was saying.
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Drainial Shadowheart wrote:Your wrong, just wrong. Homeosexuality amungst adults was fine. Alexander the great himself was reputed to be very friendly with some of his generals and soldiers.
Nope, I'm not. All of the Greek states had laws against homosexualty which predated the fashion of pedaphelia - and executed people for it on a regular basis. Alexander was a mentally unstable meglomaniac who is often accused of an affair with Cletus (one guy, not his whole army), no one pushed it though, as he was a mentally unstable meglomaniac after all
Or that lonely witches and sorceresses who are locked in their cells do sometimes kill some time hm, you know 
. Well since Malekith can hm, you know his mom why souldnt he be a ,,friend" with Malus 
( oh my maybe i see Kathy Griffin too often 
)
Um....Whats the question?
