Round 1 - Morathi vs Teclis - place your bets - Fight!

[Kinslayer]

In a square up 1 on 1 fight, who do you think would win. This includes the terms of background not just in gaming terms and of course we are not talking standing hacking at eachother with hand weapons. Sorceress blasts, special weapons, spells of doom... you name it. Morathi can be on Sulaphet of course, i beleive Teclis has no mount. Basically, these two are fighting to the death all out giving everything they have - who will win.

I say Morathi who is your money on?

[Mordru]

Morathi all the way but if you are going to handicap her by disallowing hth combat that is a serious handicap.

Teclis is powerful but has to have support to stay alive. Teclis will have to count on rolling doubles to get past her MR2 and then she has her 4+ ward.

Morathi can take him straight up he will have to do something to keep her out of his grill and that will effect his lore selection. He will need to take beast cowers to stay alive if Morathi gets to him he is through.

[Khel]

I vote tie. Because Teclis doesn't even need to get into combat with you. All he has to do is drop the atomic bomb size spells on your head. But Morathi, I'm not really sure about the extent of her powers but I think she could drop a atomic bomb size spell on Teclis' head. But then in combat, Morathi would definitely win. Though I still think Teclis could worm his way out of Morathi's spells and drop the nuke.

[Eldacar]

This includes the terms of background not just in gaming terms

I think you'll need to pick one or the other, because last I checked, the discrepancy between what Teclis can theoretically do in the background (handle energy that can level mountains, banish entire Daemon armies, take on the best living Tzeentchian sorcerers at the time of Finuval Plains and win, etc.) and what he can do by the rules of WHFB is somewhat insurmountable.

Ditto for a couple of other characters (I'm looking at you in particular, Malekith). Really, though, why the obsession with vs. matches? Or vs. matches involving Teclis in particular? Go pick on Lhogior and Kelmain instead.

The answer is always going to be Chuck Norris anyway.

[Roman v. numeral]

Yep, I have to agree. Chuck Norris would definitely win this one. Chuck Norris' Beard would take out Teclis while Chuck had his way with Morathi before spin kicking her into oblivion.

[Mr. anderson]

@Roman V. Numeral - Chuck Norris don't spin kick anyone. He roundhouse kicks

I voted Teclis. He is and will always be the most powerful sorcerer - whether we like it or not. Morathi is good, but not so good. If she were allowed to charge Teclis, then maybe she'd stand a chance (but I am pretty sure that Teclis has his ways to avoid having to fight...). We have the best elven fighters (assassins ) which can even take on Tyrion and kill him.

HUZZAH!

[Javert]

I voted Teclis. He is and will always be the most powerful sorcerer

Ewww. I hated when they said this in the High Elf book. The Slann taught the Elves how to use magic, Mazdamundi and Kroak would be far more powerful in my opinion.

[Mr. anderson]

@Javert - not always is a master more powerful than a student - and a student shall challenge his master when he becomes a master himself

But the question ain't who is the most powerful sorcerer in the world but who would win in a duel of teclis against Morathi...

HUZZAH!

[Lac.desariel]

I thought about this and then though about what we have, I agree Teclis is the better caster no doubts but and this is were I think morathi excells Morathi can harnes more magical power.

Gameing terms tecalis has the any double is IF Morathi has MR2 and 4+ ward, so 3 Dispell MR2 vs 6 power dice.

Teclic has his 3 Dispell and 1 Dispell scroll per turn (roll to forget the spell too) Morathi can throw out any where between 6 to 14 power dice and knows all the Dark magic. how 14? whit 6 for turning up, burn them all the use a black staff and rool good cast pod and start over.

with luck morathi will have him beaten, how ever the longer the battle goes the more tecalis will win

Fluff wise, this is a hard one tekalis can hold of daemon hords and tzeentch sorcerers and morathi has pacts with chaos powers and has shapped dark magics to be the most aggressive magic, she is also know by D.Elfs are the best Sorceress ever while Tecalis is the best sorcerer by H. Elf standards. Morathi being the older and wiser may be the difference

[Dggrj]

@Roman V. Numeral - Chuck Norris don't spin kick anyone. He roundhouse kicks

I voted Teclis. He is and will always be the most powerful sorcerer - whether we like it or not. Morathi is good, but not so good. If she were allowed to charge Teclis, then maybe she'd stand a chance (but I am pretty sure that Teclis has his ways to avoid having to fight...). We have the best elven fighters (assassins ) which can even take on Tyrion and kill him.

HUZZAH!

Pray tell how an assassin can reliably get through a 0+/4+/4+ set of saves? I don't think I'd looked at new Tyrion carefully before, but I'm more than slightly annoyed and disgusted with what they did for only 400 points. A flaming bolt from the dwarves seems like a good bet - no, no nm he's immune to that. I think waywatcher KB shots might be the best, but of course he'll be in a unit. Oh, and he's got I10 as well, so even Shadowblade will have to flip a coin to see who goes first. What a crock of s!%t.

[Mostlyharmless]

I want you to take a good look at the base size for his mount

[Mordru]

What does the base size of his mount have to do with anything? Tyrion's horse is a 1W cavalry mount in 7th edition.

[Mostlyharmless]

damn. the bloody thing used to count as a monster, much like archaon's daemonic steed, at least that's what I thought. I never had to face tyrion in 6th edition, so I'm not sure.

[Vonkrieglitz]

I voted for Shadowblade.

[Emal]

In a square up 1 on 1 fight, who do you think would win. This includes the terms of background not just in gaming terms and of course we are not talking standing hacking at eachother with hand weapons. Sorceress blasts, special weapons, spells of doom... you name it. Morathi can be on Sulaphet of course, i beleive Teclis has no mount. Basically, these two are fighting to the death all out giving everything they have - who will win.

I say Morathi who is your money on?

In gaming terms, my bet would be morathi, she has a ward save and magic resistance, and that gives her an edge since she has a better chance of surviving than teclis if she is hit by a spell.

Fluff-wise, completley unknown.
In the fluff we have never seen the full scope of morathis power, unless there is something in the new list (dont have it)
But do remember, she taught malekith about magic, and in the fluff duel between him and teclis it was a close call for teclis, im quoting now.
*Spell by spell the witch king matched him*
Sounds to me like it was hard for teclis during that duel, and i do think that morathi is a better caster than malky.

[Highborn on black dragon]

In a square up 1 on 1 fight, who do you think would win. This includes the terms of background not just in gaming terms and of course we are not talking standing hacking at eachother with hand weapons. Sorceress blasts, special weapons, spells of doom... you name it. Morathi can be on Sulaphet of course, i beleive Teclis has no mount. Basically, these two are fighting to the death all out giving everything they have - who will win.

I say Morathi who is your money on?

In gaming terms, my bet would be morathi, she has a ward save and magic resistance, and that gives her an edge since she has a better chance of surviving than teclis if she is hit by a spell.

Fluff-wise, completley unknown.
In the fluff we have never seen the full scope of morathis power, unless there is something in the new list (dont have it)
But do remember, she taught malekith about magic, and in the fluff duel between him and teclis it was a close call for teclis, im quoting now.
*Spell by spell the witch king matched him*
Sounds to me like it was hard for teclis during that duel, and i do think that morathi is a better caster than malky.

Can't say it better.

[Eldacar]

Okay, some semi-serious responses.

The Slann taught the Elves how to use magic, Mazdamundi and Kroak would be far more powerful in my opinion.

Kroak's dead - he doesn't count. Unless you're talking about Kroak while he was alive.

And regarding students becoming greater than the teachers, it's stated that the Elves have done things with magic that the Slann can't or won't.

damn. the bloody thing used to count as a monster, much like archaon's daemonic steed, at least that's what I thought. I never had to face tyrion in 6th edition, so I'm not sure.

You're correct that it used to be a monstrous mount. However, 7th edition brings Malhandir back to the 1W mount class, so the pony isn't a monster now (and it also increases his AS, IIRC). The modification to Dragon Armour rules regarding flaming attacks (it now blocks the entire attack, where the more "mundane" stuff - such as a flaming cannonball - used to bypass it) can also be classed as something of a boost.

Sounds to me like it was hard for teclis during that duel, and i do think that morathi is a better caster than malky.

Correct. He didn't have an easy time of it, though Teclis has improved since then. Of course, Malekith and/or Morathi may have improved as well.

At the time of Finuval Plains, he (Teclis) was very much a "novice" insofar as his experience went. Though somebody with such a low level of actual experience matching (and in the end defeating with the boost of the Staff of Lileath, before he went on to help his brother turn the tide of the battle) somebody who's had thousands of years to perfect his skills with magic is no small feat at all.

***

Game-wise, since that's what a lot of people seem to be doing, it comes down to the dice, so whoever prays the most to Nuffles and makes the requisite sacrifices upon his altar will take it.

[Mr. anderson]

@Roman V. Numeral - Chuck Norris don't spin kick anyone. He roundhouse kicks

I voted Teclis. He is and will always be the most powerful sorcerer - whether we like it or not. Morathi is good, but not so good. If she were allowed to charge Teclis, then maybe she'd stand a chance (but I am pretty sure that Teclis has his ways to avoid having to fight...). We have the best elven fighters (assassins ) which can even take on Tyrion and kill him.

HUZZAH!

Pray tell how an assassin can reliably get through a 0+/4+/4+ set of saves? I don't think I'd looked at new Tyrion carefully before, but I'm more than slightly annoyed and disgusted with what they did for only 400 points. A flaming bolt from the dwarves seems like a good bet - no, no nm he's immune to that. I think waywatcher KB shots might be the best, but of course he'll be in a unit. Oh, and he's got I10 as well, so even Shadowblade will have to flip a coin to see who goes first. What a crock of s!%t.

Of course Assassins won't have an easy time with Tyrion but It's doable for them (even though a highborn with the pendant will be able to stand his own against teclis as well). In the end, an assassin with KB, rune of khaine and black lotus will not be unlikely to score two KBs and that is on average one KB going through and taking Tyrion out. Of course the roll-off is a bit of a problem there, but Assassins can get through (unlike last ed highelves where tyrion would just come back with a 2+ ward...)... Assassins are the best fighters of the elven race - they don't need fancy magical weapons to be good, but Tyrion does

HUZZAH!

[Gustav]

my vote based mostly on fluff is Morathi sure Teclis has done tons of amazing things battle deamons ect. but lets look at Morathi

Survived 3 thousand years in exile fighting constantly and learning more about the dark arts as she goes. She has countless pacts with deamons, the cult of pleasure and khaine at her disposal. She basically is the cause of the first civil war between the elves and she has lived to tell the tale.

Now i think those years would have taught her many tricks and since magic involves a lot of study and she is most deffiently sneakier she would win imho and thats not countign in the fact that if she really wanted to she would probably just send in tons of assasins after teclis its what i would do then when he is weak send s deamon or something. Teclis may have more raw power but morathi has experience, resources, and no morals all equaling to her winning in my opinion.

[Eldacar]

She basically is the cause of the first civil war between the elves

Most of your post seems to be an entirely different scenario to the standard one, which is a fight to the death in a neutral location between two characters and without any help from others (it makes things like the Temple of Khaine, Cult of Pleasure, White Tower of Hoeth and so on largely irrelevant). This, however, kind of jumped out at me. You're aware that her contribution to the events leading to the civil war is largely political in nature, right? How do you see political skill helping her in a spell battle?

[Drainial]

I voted Morathi mostly on the Finuval planes argument. Malekith was roughly equal to Teclis, Morathi is better at magic than her son. Plus she has had a very long time in which to perfect her arts, longer than Teclis and there is alot to be said for millenia of experiance. She must have a few extra tricks up her... well considering her skimpy garments I dont know where she would keep them, but thats not the point.

[Eldacar]

Plus she has had a very long time in which to perfect her arts

So has Malekith, so the difference between them balances out somewhat.

Battlefield needs to be accounted for, too (unless this is in a neutral location, but then again, the following would still apply to Malekith and Morathi).

In Naggaroth, both Malekith and Morathi can draw upon the networks they have established, and thus make use of True Dhar (they have constructed networks that allow it to form much, much more easily than perhaps everywhere else aside from the Chaos Wastes). Outside of it (or where there is little to no True Dhar in the vicinity, either or), they generally need to crush all the regular winds together to get an intentional manifestation of Dhar. Still effective, but not as powerful.

If they can somehow store it (like the Staff of Lileath "stores" pure magical energy for Teclis to draw on), then it becomes easier to take elsewhere, of course, though it would probably be like walking around with an unshielded nuclear reactor in your pocket.

well considering her skimpy garments I dont know where she would keep them

Places that are inappropriate for a forum such as this.

[Nightblade183]

This topic has already been done and it consisted of a long and crazy arguement that took up a lot of pages and got pretty ugly and had to be locked down. I don't know how to do links but the arguements can found under a similar topic that also included Malekith vs Tyrion. I am humbly suggesting that the mods either lock this thread because it is basically a duplicate of a previous thread, or be watchful of this thread so that it doesn't get out of hand. Thank you.

[Alandriakh]

As long as it doesn't get out of hand.

Anyways. I think that a fight between Morathi and Teclis would result in the whole old world shaking like in the time that the dark elves tried to take down the vortex of Ulthuan. In a fight in magic only I think it would result in a tie. Morathi using every bit of power she has in devastating spells, probably calling upon the daemonic pacts she has and using every dirty trick she knows. I can see the sky growing dark around her with in that all Teclis standing in a white glow, countering every spell Morathi throws at him and trying to attack back which eventually also results in getting countered. Then eventually after weeks of fighting and I mean weeks, cause, cmon it are Morathi and Teclis we're talking about here. They'd both be at the last of their powers as one of them tries one more spell but fails horribly, the winds of magic overpowering him/her which ends in enormous miscast which could blow up a city, taking them both out.

Should there be hand to hand combat involved then Morathi would win. She is more skilled with a weapon then Teclis. And also even if her mount would join the fight, it would eventually fall to Teclis magic. So I vote tie.