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Malekith's biggest mistake 
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Dragon Lord
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As we all know (or at least should), when Malekith was denied his rightful throne, he went out in the world, conquering new lands in the name of the Elves and befriending dwarfs... He was said to be personal friend to the dwarf king.
So where did Malekith go wrong?

After sundering, he assaulted Dwarf caravan, Druchii mistaken for Asur and the War of the Beard began.

The Asur lost their colonies in the old world and Ulthuan was weakened as first invasion began.

So where Malekith went wrong? it seems everything went according to plan. Dwarf-Asur ties broken, Asur lost their colonies (and Phoenix Crown!) and so on.

It's quite simple really if you think about it.

Malekith was a friend do dwarf king
Dwarfs are very traditional folk
Instead of breaking ties between all Elves and the Dwarfs... Malekith could break ties only between Asur and the Dwarfs.
How?

By coming to the dwarf king, his body ravaged by the trecherous Asur, his birthright denied by petty politics. Something dwarfs would not allow to happen to their friends (just look how they stand in protection of humans nowadays). It would be beyond a dwarf to even think of a possibility of not allowing the son of a king to take his rightful place after his father!
Instead of breaking alliances, reforge them! and crush Asur from two fronts.
It's too late now though. Shame.

Discuss :)


Sun May 25, 2008 12:23 am
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Dalamar wrote:
As we all know (or at least should), when Malekith was denied his rightful throne, he went out in the world, conquering new lands in the name of the Elves and befriending dwarfs... He was said to be personal friend to the dwarf king.
So where did Malekith go wrong?

After sundering, he assaulted Dwarf caravan, Druchii mistaken for Asur and the War of the Beard began.



...Unless Furion was telling the truth and those bandits were really just greedy, short sighted Asur....


Sun May 25, 2008 3:04 am
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Furion, telling the truth? *cough* I think we should stick with the other story.

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Sun May 25, 2008 3:07 am
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Quote:
By coming to the dwarf king, his body ravaged by the trecherous Asur, his birthright denied by petty politics. Something dwarfs would not allow to happen to their friends (just look how they stand in protection of humans nowadays). It would be beyond a dwarf to even think of a possibility of not allowing the son of a king to take his rightful place after his father!
Instead of breaking alliances, reforge them! and crush Asur from two fronts.

I disagree.

Despite Malekiths apparent friendship with the Dwarf King, I believe the friendship was more `diplomatic` than personal. Malekith was more a great warrior than a great statesman or diplomat, hence the reason the Asur Nobility denied him his birthright. I feel his ties with the Dwarfs would have been along the lines of formal goodwill as opposed to warm hearted brotherhood.

Remember this. The Dwarfs forged a blood brotherhood with the Empire on the battlefield, against the Orcs and Goblins to both Races mutual benefit. Sigmar also rescued the Dwarf king ! No mean feat. These selfless acts contributed to the greater good for both Empire and Dwarfs, and forged a bond far stronger than any other in the Warhammer World.

Dwarfs are a very insular Race. To get involved in another Races national interests is anathema to them, unless that Race directly threatens Dwarfen interests. Good trading relations aside, the Dwarfs would have had no good reason to back Malekiths claim to the throne of Ulthuan. They may have sympathised with Malekiths predicament, and possibly even sent `please explain` missives to the Ulthuan rulers on Malekiths behalf. But as long as strong trade agreements, and non aggression pacts existed between Dwarfs and High Elves, I don`t believe the Dwarf King would have intervened on Malekiths behalf.

Like I said, the Dwarf King may well have sympathised with Malekiths snubbing, and even expressed his disapproval. At the end of the day, the Dwarfs owed Malekith and the High Elves of either faction nothing. As long as a relationship of mutual benefit continued to exist, it simply wasn`t the Dwarfs problem.

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Sun May 25, 2008 3:20 am
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I have also ben thinking that if malky ran to them dwarves after his burning then perhaps it could have worked a lill better, but let us not forget that part of poisoning the phoenix kings whoms name i canot spell and his own elite guard killing anyone who asked questions.

I would say his bigest mistake is the fact that he wanted the throne so badly that he want that far, had he bid his time for a few more entueries then maybe he could have gained the throne in the end, dont forget that he was indeed second in command to the king.

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Sun May 25, 2008 8:27 am
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He went wrong when he steped into flames of Assuryan without trying to sacrifice himself and without backing of Assuryan priesthood. Before that, everything went according to the plan; after that, nothing really worked as he intended.

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Sun May 25, 2008 9:26 am
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Everything we know from official background tells us that Malekith did have a personal relationship with the high king (and later white dwarf). He was there when Snori died and was the only one there. He was the one who informed Snori's son that he was now high king. So far as I can see Malekith had a far closer relationship with the dwarves than any other High elf. Certainly Closer than Bel'shannnar. Also he did have a Sigmar equivelant bond with the Dwarves. He may not have personaly saved the high king (because he never desperatly needed saving, though bastard that he was) but they did fight side by side in the aftermath of the great war against Chaos to clense the Dwarven lands of the huge numbers of mutants and the like that were still there.

So prehaps he could have turned the Dwarves to his aide, of course that carried risks, if the Dwai ever found out that it was the elves under Malekith's orders that attacked that caravan (thus severing the ties bettween Asur and Dwai) they would likly turn all of their might towards destroying him as it would make him a traitor and an Oath breaker, not something that your more traditional dwarf aproves of.

I think that Malekith would have been far to proud to attempt this though, he was probobly so certain that he could gain the throne on his own, even after his burning, that he wouldn't stoop to askting a 'lesser' race for help.

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Sun May 25, 2008 11:17 am
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Drainial Shadowheart wrote:
So prehaps he could have turned the Dwarves to his aide, of course that carried risks, if the Dwai ever found out that it was the elves under Malekith's orders that attacked that caravan (thus severing the ties bettween Asur and Dwai) they would likly turn all of their might towards destroying him as it would make him a traitor and an Oath breaker, not something that your more traditional dwarf aproves of.


The whole point would be to turn to dwarfs for assistence *instead* of attacking their caravans. They'd happily break trade agreements with the trecherous Asur and opened them with the Druchii who followed their rightful ruler. Even only that would give Malekith big advantage over the Asur (as we all know willing workers do much better work than slaves ;) )


Sun May 25, 2008 12:32 pm
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You should not be saying where Malekith went wrong but rather where did GW go wrong... ;) I'd think that once Malekith revealed his true intentions the Dwarves would turn on him.

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Sun May 25, 2008 12:50 pm
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Malekith's true intentions are to reclaim Ulthuan for its rightful rulers and the Phoenix Throne for its righful heir.

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Sun May 25, 2008 1:23 pm
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He should never have caused the schism in the Elven people. If that had not happened, a superior race would still be ruling the Warhammer world.

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Sun May 25, 2008 1:54 pm
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which to a dwarf would be commendable - especially as he has been denied the throne through political manouvres and prevented from claiming his birthright

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Sun May 25, 2008 1:59 pm
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Pah! Where is your honor as a Druchii? Melekith's biggest mistake was not working together with Morathi to collapse each and every dwarven stronghold onto the stunty's heads. Are you suggesting that you would LIKE to play a dark elf army alongside fat bearded midgets?

Besides... dwarves have always been one of GW's favorite armies... There's no way they would have let them be tricked by an "evil" army. I mean... if we're going to just make up our own fluff... than sure. Melekith could have gone to the dwarves for aid... and to the lizardmen too... why not? They'd still be grateful that the Melekith's father and the elves managed to banish Chaos. Then we'd have eventually gotten the humans on our side, since they're buddy-buddy with the dwarves. Meanwhile, Morathi covertly draws on the aid of chaos in all it's forms, and bribes the skaven as well with a huge chunk of warpstone, to get them all on our side. She also uses her mastery of dark magic to enact a ritual that makes all things drawn from dark magic obey her... and as we all know... necromancy was created from dark magic... so now we have the undead on our side.

In a massive two-pronged assault... Melekith leads the "good" armies against the Asur, while Morathi leads the "evil" armies. The Asur are destroyed, and Melekith and Morathi each feign outrage at the other's allies, and lead their allies against each other. They draw out the war long enough to decimate both sides... then betray them and wipe out what is left of each... Thus leaving the Druchii as the sole owners of the world. Well, there's still orcs, and chaos never dies... but we'll need something left to fight and keep our armies strong.

It's fun to pretend, isn't it?

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Sun May 25, 2008 3:48 pm
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Dalamar wrote:

The whole point would be to turn to dwarfs for assistence *instead* of attacking their caravans. They'd happily break trade agreements with the trecherous Asur and opened them with the Druchii who followed their rightful ruler. Even only that would give Malekith big advantage over the Asur (as we all know willing workers do much better work than slaves ;) )



@Bloodyangel
There is a differance between an intresting hypothetical and making up bizar background to suit our wants. We all know that GW wrote things the way they did in the name of balance and so that all of the armies can be roughly equal.

Besides the stunties did get tricked by some one evil. They did engage in the war of the beard afterall, Malekith just could have gone one step further and get them fully on side.

@Dalmar
Unfortunatly the dwarves would not do that. They had sworn oaths of friendship with the whole elven people and to attack them without being attacked first would have been an act of base treachery, of course when they have been attacked its the elves that are the traitors and its time to start hiting things with oversized axes.

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Sun May 25, 2008 4:09 pm
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While not getting the stunties on our side (our magic, rtheir guns) was bad, not biding long enough for the thrown was worse. After all, he was number two: Numberone would die soon enough by old age, war, falling cocanunt (people die by these all the time, why not an elf?)


Mon May 26, 2008 4:13 am
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We do not depend upon or look towards the aid of Lessers. What we require of them, be it goods or manpower matters not. We do not request their aid, we enforce our will and bend them to the task required.

Simply the Opinion of this Reaver, except to also say it is oft unwise to query if our Witch King's plans ere show Folly. Such loose talk.. dangerous in the wrong ear.
(grin)

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Mon May 26, 2008 4:33 am
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Luckily my Ark is sailing safely around the western coast of Arabia right now, preparing for another slave raid on the empire when our new book comes out.
It was my agreement with Malekith considering I'm male spellcaster.
I'm sitting here, gathering slaves, wealth and arcane knowledge and respond to his calls of war. I'm in a very good position to question his rash decisions <grins>

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Mon May 26, 2008 9:59 am
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Intresting topic.
First: I think that Malekith was a briliant diplomat and a master of intrigue. After all he was son of Morathi and Aenarioon. And if his father die in battle with Chaos, advise of loving mother was always on his side. He was explorer of the world at last eqval to Bel'Shanar the Explorer and I think it is a big question WHO forge Bel'Shanar such fame. Ruling king rarely have a time to voyage distant lands, but Malekith was his right arm in this. So, diplomatic issues with new-found races was in hands of Malekith. And yes, it was a big advantage to Malekith.
Second: I think Malekith nether did ANY mistakes. Dwarwes is very traditional race. Yes, idea of chosen ruler was wild for them, and their simpatys will be on the side of Malekith - the one who have birthrite to rule. But they nether fight for him in distant lands. Elves was trade partners, sometimes ally against Chaos but it was all. Apart of Empire Ulthuan was too far from Dwarwen Empire in Black Mountains. They don't have many common issues to be real allys. Yes, they both fight in war with Chaos but do it separate - elves - in Ulthuan, Dwarves - in Old World. They don't feel about each other as a such close ally to participate in foreighn civil war. After all it was realy hard for Dwarves to do it - Ulthuan was too far. Yes, they can burn elven outposts on Old world such as Tor Alessy but it will do much less demage to Caledor the Second. Ulthuan can easyly live without Old World - they have acsess to all conners or the world from Lustria to Cathay. And then Caledor II and his more smart advisors will shurelly know that behind Dwarwen Crusade stands Malekith. Then they nether pay so mutch atention to them and eyes were on Malekith. Dwarves nether was good sailors to visit Ulthuan. Even if try it they shurelly loose to Ulthuan fleets. And again - thy nether go into such trobble for prince of different race from far lands. Dwarven society too close for this. It was like in times of English civil war - Russian Tzar Alexey Mikhailovich send curses to "monarch-killers" of London, imprison english merchants and end all trade with England. But he never trys to lunch crusades to England to avenge death of Charles the First. But Malekith made exellent job - he force Dwarves to fight with Caledor the Second for their oun grudge!!! Dwarves never forgive such things! Malekith was a brilliant strategist and psychologist then lunch "War of the Beards" agenda. He know character and culture of Dwarfs (he study them personally!!!) and he know arrogance of Caledor the Second.
He forge a brilliant chance to conquer Ulthuan - Azur armys in distant lands fights with moust powerfull mortal race after elves. Phenix king is DEAD! And in the eyes of elven nobility and people Malekith is clean! He can be new more mature and strong ruler then stupid Caledor!
Last: You can ask me - then HELL WHY we still not in Ulthuan?
Apart traditional "because it will be end of history". Why Germany loose Second World war? You can name many reasons but behind all of them will be - they fights with enemys of absolute different weights class. Both USSR and USA can much Germany alone. Plus Britan Empire. As a result you can only be amazed HOW Germany can go so far? Here is their talent. Truth is that cold lands of Naggaroth is too weak base economicaly and demograthicaly to fight prosperous and fertile kingdoms of Ulthuan. We need a special conditions and cunning preparations to win with first blitzkreeg-like strike.
Druchii is too few for long wars. But we have our talent, dedication and burning hatred against Azur tritors!!!!!!
And we have a Malekith. The Witch-King. Last and greatest of all heroes of ancient times!!! You must be proud to die for such leader!!! The thruth is so: Malekith NEVER nake any MISTAKES!!! But he always fights impossible battles. More then that - he fights with FATE that always AGAINST him. Aenarion taking Sword of Khane was not only cursed himself but all "his lineage". After death of Aenarion all weight of this dread curse fall on Malekith. He was burned with flame of Asuran - flame that burns not only flash, but soul. Burnad badly Malekith survive AGAINST will of gods. And still fight aganst bounds of Khaine curse. And one day he win. I fight for this.

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Mon May 26, 2008 8:46 pm
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Malekiths biggest mistake was, and still is, being a mommas boy. He shoulda killed Morathi when he had the chanse.

@Rus-guy
Leave political talk out of it please, lets not go into world war 2 Who-can-beat-who discussions. I disagree that Russia woulda just walked over German if it had been a 1vs1 fight. But whatever.


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Mon May 26, 2008 9:10 pm
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@Arcturus
About WW2 I send you private (just as you wished).

As for Wich King and "mommas boy"... Well. Just wait for the brides of Khane in your doors. ;)

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Mon May 26, 2008 9:58 pm
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On the subject of Malekith...
Quote:
And one day he win. I fight for this.
I concur.

Quote of the year IMHO.

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Tue May 27, 2008 1:41 am
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Arcturus wrote:
Malekiths biggest mistake was, and still is, being a mommas boy. He shoulda killed Morathi when he had the chanse.


Couldn't have said it better myself.

Though if Malekith was to seek the aid of the dawi, he would have had to do it right after he was burned. He would have scored some serious sympathy points.

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Tue May 27, 2008 3:43 am
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Also it should be rememberd that the white dwarf (aka Snori whitebeard, ex high king) first showed up. I think that as that point Malekith was not an oath breaker (so far as he knew) he would probobly have spoken in his favor. And Ru-guy, without wanting to go to deeply into real world history on this forum Russia realy had no great links with Britain during the the English civil war, however the elves had long been fighting alongside the dwarves in the old world against chaos. Also the two were major trading partners. They had a great deal in common. I might add that France and Germany, countries with close trading and millitary links to England did involve them selves on the side of the Morarchy.

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Tue May 27, 2008 5:02 pm
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Drainial Shadowheart wrote:
Also it should be rememberd that the white dwarf (aka Snori whitebeard, ex high king) first showed up. I think that as that point Malekith was not an oath breaker (so far as he knew) he would probobly have spoken in his favor. And Ru-guy, without wanting to go to deeply into real world history on this forum Russia realy had no great links with Britain during the the English civil war, however the elves had long been fighting alongside the dwarves in the old world against chaos. Also the two were major trading partners. They had a great deal in common. I might add that France and Germany, countries with close trading and millitary links to England did involve them selves on the side of the Morarchy.


I think if you measure a distance from Ulthuan to Black Mountains you find that it is mutch far then from England to Germanny and France. Germany and France nether took part in english civil war (at last directly). Sea invasion into different continent of big dwarf army... I really don't think so. And even so - Dwarfs will nether win such war on enemy soil. But Malekith bring Ulthuan to Dwarf lands and force then to storm dwarven strongholds. I can't imagine something better for druchii.

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Wed May 28, 2008 9:17 pm
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Ru-guy wrote:
As for Wich King and "mommas boy"... Well. Just wait for the brides of Khane in your doors. Wink

Brides of Khaine are the wine at my table, not the fear in my heart.
I live for power and kill for despair. ;)

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Wed May 28, 2008 9:28 pm
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