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Other war machines beside Reapers? 
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:04 am
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I know the Reaper Bolt Thrower is a very versatile war machine, but could the Druchii have come up with other machines also? Alternate versions of the weapon, chariot-mounted or steed-driven or perhaps more destructive yet unpredictable, manned by slaves? I'm doubtful about the latter option, I don't see them using any kind of noisy, smoky weapons, even if they had the slaves to operate them, though.

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Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:04 am
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I suppose if you look at other sources such as the Malus Darkblade books, you see examples such as a war machine known as "Dragon Breath". It is a normal bolt thrower, but it hurls single reaper bolts, the bolt head being replaced with a large triangular prism which is then filled with a highly explosive liquid. Basically, it's a napalm thrower.

Another source is Warhammer Online, where the Dark Elves have another genre of Reaper Bolt Thrower. However, this one is much larger than any other, normal bolt thrower and I presume it is used to take down walls. It isn't talked about much in W.A.R. but one is open to suggestion.

And another source could be our good old fashion Warhammer Universe. I'm talking about, yes that's right, the Hydra. Not exactly a construct but a definite War Machine.

The Hydra is manned by slaves, but you can be sure they are fed by them and to them. :)

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Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:58 am
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Slave (off the Altar)

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I remember High Elves having an ielthan-thrower, is the Dragon Breath just the Druchii version of that? Interesting.

So other races don't have larger-than-average bolt throwers in WAR and it could possibly seen as part of the Druchii war instruments? High Elves don't have one those kind of large Repeaters?

Well yes, there's Hydra, but I'm more after the constructed war machines. :P

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Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:11 am
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Yeah well the Druchii are all about the monsters as warmachines actually. See: Replacing all standard non-Black Ark ships in our fleet with Sea Dragons and Hell Drakes. The thing with Elves is that they are very traditional, Bolt Throwers and monsters get the job done, no need for anything else, such as crude gunpowder.

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Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:44 am
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Trainee Warrior

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I think a chariot mounted bolt thrower isn't implausible, especially if RBTs are mounted on black arks and other DE ships. Getting any kind of accuracy out of that might be a challenge, but the mobility (over flat terrain...) might be handy.

DEs value precision, so a catapult/trebuchet type weapon is out of the question, and a black powder war machine is fluff blasphemy.

Apart from that, and a dragon-fire RBT, I think there isn't anything really in the way of construct war machines. There's always the CoB too...


Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:35 am
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Prophet of Tzeentch
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I think the recoil from a large torsion powered warmachine would rip any normal chariot to peices, it might be plausable with a large reinforced wagon, but in any case I cannott see it ever happening.

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Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:30 pm
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Chariot Ballistae were used in ancient rome so it is definitely possible the Dark elves built some.

I can't see why they wouldn't go for a trebuchet or cannon myself. Theres valuing prescison and then theres dropping giant boulders on your enemy. :)

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Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:08 am
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The Reaper Bolt Thrower is probably a light caliber version of a larger Naval Fire Support huge weapon, designed to harpoon Moby Dick and the Leviathan.
Naval artillery FTW!

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Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:09 am
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Cannons are used with Blackpowder. Normaly Elves hate Blackpowder. But then again these are Dark Elves.

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Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:53 am
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Slave (off the Altar)

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Maybe they'd make an exception for evil gunpowder?


I'd like to see the Dark Elves gain some elegant war machines in game, that correlate to their usage of terror as a weapon. Something like a pair of large buzz saws arranged either side of one another, affixed to the front of a nimble wagon-like contraption that is pushed (not pulled) by cold ones. As it is pushed forward, the buzzsaws whir to life and brutally eviscerate any infantry or cavalry (poor horsies and riders legs) that get in the way. Blood, guts and severed limbs fly about as the machine is pushed through tightly ranked infantry, indiscriminately sawing off anything that is fed to it.

Or, maybe, seems as Elves are always viewed as more magical than mechanical, what about golem-like creatures that are created by Druchii steelsmiths. When a Delf warrior is crippled in battle, they can have their soul transferred into the soul-matrix of the golem and thus bring it to life, allowing him/her to smash once more. Kind of like our version of Dryads! They are ready to die a second time in service of the Witch King.

Or, something that really scares the hell out of any mortal creature. Something like a Soul Engine, which is an elegant warmachine with enchanted crystals along its body that serves as a mobile, automoted spell-plat form that drains the souls of the enemies and uses them to issue coruscating blasts of dark energies from itself - stripping the flesh from the bones of the enemy and chewing free their souls for consumption. Sorceresses on the batltefield can dip into this harvested pool of souls, diminishing its effectiveness but using it to power their own spells. War machine, terror-causer, enemy killer, and mobile-mana-tank for the wizard-ladies all rolled into one. It could be our steam tank!


Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:05 pm
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Prophet of Tzeentch
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We already have the first of your sugestions, they are called scythed chariots and unlike your sugestion could (and did) pluasably exist as a weapon of war.

The golem is not particulaly subtle, such a creation is far more dwarven (or possibly Chaos Dwarven) in syle.

The soul engine idea has more merit, but it is just a little too much like an alter of doom for my likeing, besides we already have the couldren of blood for a large largely imobile yet powerful war machine.

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Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:33 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)

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I was mostly having fun, however, in my defense, in a world in which a Countess can construct a robot horse that shoots lightning from its eyes, I don't see it as much of a stretch that Druchii sorceresses can enchant a pair of buzzsaws into a hovering meat-slicer. It could just be a more solidified application of Blade Wind. I like it mostly because I like the imagery :p.


Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:44 pm
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Reality really isn't applicable in warhammer.
Chainsaw wielding Dark Elves are just as unrealistic as Dark Elves themselves.

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Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:49 am
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In a recent interview with Gav Thorpe on the Bad Dice Podcast, he mentions that when he was working on a previous Dark Elf Army Book there were several new dark elf warmachines and monsters that were tested and never made it to the book. it would be quite interesting to know what these were.

Personnally I think a good option would be a hybrid of the two. A myrwrym with a sleek sea going howdah crewed by a handful of corsairs, maybe with a both thrower. It would be the equivelent of a dark elf gunboat ranging ahead of slaving fleets and capable of stomping onto the land to providing relatively mobile fire support to raiding forces. I also envisage the creature being able to swim up rivers to spread fear and confusion in land and disrupt enemy reserves.

On the table top this would bring the flavour of the Druchii's sea going heritage to the battlefield and provide a great taster of the great sea dragons with castles on there back in the fluff.


Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:29 am
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I've written experimental rules for dragons breath. works similar to the old 7th edition fire spell conflagration of doom.


Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:06 pm
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Quote:
I think a chariot mounted bolt thrower isn't implausible, especially if RBTs are mounted on black arks and other DE ships


There's quite a big difference between ship based artillery, which has a relatively stable and large platform and a small, fast paced moving vehicle on wheels. If you don't believe me, compare the size of a gun on a 2nd world war tank with that of a gun on a 2nd world war battleship...major size difference, for a reason.

I think that a massive arrow thrower, similar to the one fielded by the forces of darkness in the classic TBS game spellcross would be viable. Essentially its a massive rack of arrows on wheels that propels devastating volleys of sharpened bolts across great distances.

Edit: wow, my apologies, didn't realise this was quite such a necroed thread!

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Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:19 pm
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i do believe it the concept of diffrent ammo would be a more plausible idea then new machines, after all both our repeater crossbows and our bolthrowers were made by dwarven hands, not druchii. So we could have normal bolts, the 6 bolts we fire we can fire now, dragonbreath rounds, which could work well as the skaven warpstone cannon, which acts like a cannonball but explodes at the end.
And 1 sort mentioned in malus is the large sythed bolts, originally meant to cut down masts, and some crew with them, these half cresent blades on these bolts might not have the range a regulat bolt has but it would tear havoc among any tightly pakked unit.


Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:54 am
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Since we have no template artillery (which is now way better than bolt throwers) I'm designing dragons breath around a template weapon version.


Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:09 am
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Quote:
(which is now way better than bolt throwers)


That's quite a subjective statement...I can think of lots of situations where a reaper bolt thrower would be better than a template artillery piece.

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Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:19 pm
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I'm fairly light on the fluff, but wasn't the reaper& repeating crossbow technology taken from the dwarves?

The only true Dark Elf warmachine is the Cauldron of blood. Along similar veins (and really just an elfified version of ubergeist's idea),it should be something like a portal manned by a sorceress that can summon bladed spheres a la Phantasm, or project focus familiar tokens...

Follows the concept of character + attendants, so it would fit in fairly well.


Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:17 pm
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Red... wrote:
Quote:
(which is now way better than bolt throwers)


That's quite a subjective statement...I can think of lots of situations where a reaper bolt thrower would be better than a template artillery piece.


Sorry, I was over-generalising there. I still believe my point stands in that I'd much rather field an Orc and Goblin Rock Lobba at 75 points than a Reaper Bolt Thrower at 100 and that our only artillery piece is over-priced, especially considering the huge boost in accuracy for weapons which formerly used guess range-template artillery pieces.

I think giving our RBT a template weapon option with Dragon's Breath would make them more useful, currently in my armies I do not field RBTs competitively or in most friendly games either as they just do not carry their weight for the points cost.


Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:20 pm
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martian wrote:
I'm fairly light on the fluff, but wasn't the reaper& repeating crossbow technology taken from the dwarves?

The only true Dark Elf warmachine is the Cauldron of blood. Along similar veins (and really just an elfified version of ubergeist's idea),it should be something like a portal manned by a sorceress that can summon bladed spheres a la Phantasm, or project focus familiar tokens...

Follows the concept of character + attendants, so it would fit in fairly well.


The Crossbow technology was taken from the Dwarves, Druchii then modified it and turned it into the unique repeater crossbow we use today. I think Dragon's breath is very fluffy, RBT shooting bolts tipped with globes of sorcerous fire, they are used alot in the Malus Darkblade books, an explosion of magical green fire is practical because it was first used by corsair ships to sink opposing ships easily by setting them on fire, all of which has its origins in naval warfare and how the corsairs wanted a quick and easy way of getting themselves out of trouble.


Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:26 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)

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What I reckon Dark Elves could do, is have a ballista that fires balls filled with dark magic (make a black horror on the target for example, like the 40k vortex grenade) or with some nasty chemical that tortures people on contact.


Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:27 am
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Arnold Layne
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I had an idea to replace a Hydra in game with a three lizard chariot, what has a bellows-driven flame-thrower on board. Manned by Corsairs - five Corsairs. It has a Sea Dragon scale armoured chassis. That gives it a scaly skin save. Each corsair's armour gives him a 4+ save, which takes the place of regeneration. If a Corsair fails his save, then there's one less guy to run the thrower - ergo strength depends on the number of 'wounds' lost. Also they're mecking about with a dang scring flame thrower, with burney oil all around. So if they're hit by fire they don't get their saves.

I never did build it on account of lack of time. It would take some.

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Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:11 am
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Red... wrote:
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(which is now way better than bolt throwers)


That's quite a subjective statement...I can think of lots of situations where a reaper bolt thrower would be better than a template artillery piece.


Nonetheless, even a basic s3 stonethrower is more useful than an RBT most of the time and the price of both should reflect this. The pricing of template weapons is what makes them so good now. They (and cannons) are all massively underpriced now.

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Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:01 pm
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