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Average warhammer elf and magical powers ? 
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Black Guard
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It is stated in canon that average Elf actually has some minor magical powers like occasional prophetic visions.

Was there ever more information about this in canon?

What do you imagine powers of an average (not really talented) First Speaker look like?

Does this mean every average Elven spearman can with proper training or faith in a deity become lvl 1 wizard?

Also what confuses me is the full potential of elvenkind with magic when it comes to unlimited winds of magic. I bought the CD Aenarion and it finally made me understand some key elements of druchii history.

For instance I never understood Aenarions fear of creating vortex or Morathis desire to destroy it, but it seems as if elven mages were practically demigods with full winds of magic before Vortex. If thats true, are greater daemons limited by their predestined nature and can thus elven archmage best Lord of Change with unlimited amount of magic available?

Also can the Vortex somehow be connected to Asur problems with fertility? Cause their problems with low birthrate started after our attempt to manipulate the Vortex. If that was the case, would we be more fertile because of some blessing of Atharti, manipulation of Altar of Ultimate Darkness or just because of hedonistic social norms? Cause with all the Death Nights and backstabbing we must procreate like rats.

Could the separation from Vortex also be reason for Asrai and Druchii losing the so-called Speed of Asuryan? Do we use the Altar just as Asrai use the Loren Forest for gaining specific abilities?

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Sat May 05, 2012 11:39 am
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Prophet of Tzeentch
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As far as I am aware, and there may be others with a better knowledge than I, it is not an issue much explored. Certainly I don't think your average elf could be battle standard level one for the simple reason that if they could why wouldn't they? If they could all be mages then their education system would make sure they were, it is too good a thing not to exploit. Without much training your average elf might be able to see the winds occasionally, maybe towards the higher end they might be able to light a candle or something but nothing much beyond that. Just conjecture though. I suspect that beneath the level of battle wizards there are many mages in all races with lesser power, after all a level one mage can obliterate a regiment with a massive fireball, there would probably be many more mages than battle standard mages but they would still be pretty rare in my mind.

As for the vortex it is certainly true that prior to the vortex magic was a great deal more powerful, back then it may even have been the case that your average elf could cast spells, it is said in either the rule book or the HE army book (I think the later) that after the Vortex many less powerful mages found it impossible to cast even the simplest of spells while even the most powerful struggled with what had once been no more strenuous than a flick of the wrist.

Daemons though are creatures of magic and I suspect that a greater daemon would be more powerful in an environment with more of it about. I see it as being similar to oxygen, though it doesn't fit exactly. A human needs a certain amount of oxygen in the air in order to live and will die if there isn't enough. If there is only just enough they won't die but nor will they be in a fit state to do very much, more oxygen and their body and mind will work better. They are capped however at maximum efficiency. That is how I see magic and daemons working, they get stronger the more magic there is around but only up to a point. It is possible in the current environment for a powerful elf to take on a greater daemon, Teclis being the obvious example when he banished N'kari. Pre and post vortex it seems like the most powerful elves are a match for very powerful, if not the most powerful, daemons but only the best. Of course a greater saturation of magic also means that there can be more greater daemons in the world.

A link between diminished magic and birth-rate is an interesting thought. If elves are linked closely to magic as they seem to be it could well effect them. Elves after all live far longer than is natural and do so defying all natural laws by living faster and harder than humans (their hearts pump faster ect, normally long lived creatures beat more slowly). Throw in the greater affinity for magic and a link to fertility doesn't seem out of the question, why it wouldn't affect dark elves so badly though I have no idea. As for speed of Asuryan I think that is a game rule with no real background to it which I why I hate it more than any other rule in the game.

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Sat May 05, 2012 2:56 pm
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In one of the storm of magic novellas (the one with the cockatrice on it) a skaven Grey seer comments he could recognize a elf skull simply by the amount of magic that emanated from it.

In any case If I had to guess, a elf's ability to use magic would be similar to a person's ability to draw or play in instrument.

Anyone go wild on a drum set, and anyone can draw stick stick figures but outside one needs to practice it, perfect it to do anything more impressive. Some people have a nack for it, others...are found in wanting.

That's my thought on it.

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Sat May 05, 2012 7:05 pm
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In new Daemon AB it is stated, that Slann could first best Lords of Change, but as magic became more chaotic (this I still find very confusing), then the situation was reverse. Even after that Aenarion was able to best N´Kari and Caledor was able to best Kairos!

So it seems that mortals can actually best daemons, probably cause their souls and connection to battlefield (mortal world) gives them better position. No matter how much saturated the battlefield is with magic, it is still a mortal world, not realm of chaos. Elves also seem to be even more awesome than Slann since they can obviously more easily adapt to new sorcerous/chaotic nature of magic. It also seems that Greater Daemons are greatly limited by their nature, they are not able to evolve beyond the power threshold they receive during their creation (something like elves in Disc World).

If even the most trivial magical trick can cause mistcast (like that asur mage who turned himself into plant in new HE AB), then having civilization of generally untalented noobs constantly trying to cast something so close to the Vortex does not seem like a good idea. It thus makes sense that only extremely talented ones gain access to magical lore of elite groups such as loremasters or supreme sorceresses.

I like to imagine that commoners use trivial rituals like:

farmer casts minor enchament every year on seeds he plants

desperate mother asks spirits of her ancestors in family crypt for advice

seagurds send messages on winds of magic to their lovers back at home

elf in dark can produce some minor witchlight

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Sun May 06, 2012 12:08 am
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In the old HE army book there was a section saying that the farmers around Hoeth never had to till their fields and never missed a harvest because novices from the tower would do it with magic. To me that sugests that even low level spells needs a certain talent.

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Sun May 06, 2012 12:12 am
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I know thats why I imagine ritual causing seeds to grow slightly better as nowhere near as impressive as magical harvesting without heavy machinery. This whole thing with wizard adepts trying to prove their worth to be admitted even as mere scholars of True Magic seems to imply that anyone can learn some tricks, but that among Elvenkind you have to be talented as hell in order to be considered worthy of attention. So Hellebron can do some primal rituals (as Morathi calls it), but without talent she can´t even match the lowest novice of Ghrond, who can cast at least the chillwind missile and channel winds.

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Sun May 06, 2012 12:26 am
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Somewhere (I won't be able to find the source right now, but it was probably one of the BL books... Defenders of Ulthuan maybe?) I've read that in Saphery, even a common tavern wench knows a couple cantrips.

This leads me to believe that every elf is capable of *some* magic. But as saintofm said, being able to do something doesn't mean you can do it well. And elves with their centuries to live and time they take to master everything they do might simply not get around to learning magic if that wasn't their first priority. After all, if you spend 100 years in the Levy, then 200 years learning poetry and another 150 on gardening... there isn't a whole lot of natural life left afterwards.

But the most interesting fact about elven wizards I've read in the rulebook to Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying game. In the description of a level 4 wizard (the highest level available to player characters) it states that "this is the point at which an elven wizard is no longer considered an apprentice and his learning truly begins".

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Sun May 06, 2012 12:55 am
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@ Drainiel: It's in the 7th ed one as well. Going from the top of my head, the students are always trying to practice their art, to learn better control of it it. Normally this would mean doing a few choirs, but this often means doing things around the area as well (including the nearby farms).

@Sezax: I remember on of Malus Darkblade's brothers, the horridly deformed one, was capable of performing some of those "gifts of khaine" as well. He used it in the Second book and in Warpsword of Khaine.

@ Dalamar: If I had to guess on that last statement, it's the fact that a wizard is on his own and it is up to they and they alone to better themselves. That and now they have all this cosmic power, they might as well learn a few new tricks.

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Sun May 06, 2012 8:11 am
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Quote:
So it seems that mortals can actually best daemons, probably cause their souls and connection to battlefield (mortal world) gives them better position. No matter how much saturated the battlefield is with magic, it is still a mortal world, not realm of chaos.


It's to do with the proximity of the Daemons to Chaos. The further away they are from Chaos, the more tenuous their link. Consequently, the further into the mortal world they go, the weaker they get and the more the odds begin to stack against them. There's a section on it in the BRB somewhere.

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Sun May 06, 2012 11:09 am
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Even when in the chaos wastes, you can still vanquish one. Gortek managed to do that on a couple of occasions. And who can forget Khorne's hand maiden? That said, they still have the home field advantage.

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Mon May 07, 2012 2:42 am
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Quote:
That said, they still have the home field advantage.


Not sure about that. Chaos Wastes are still part of the mortal world, so daemons are still more out of their element there than mortals. Why would chaos otherwise bother with having kurgan and hung there, if it could just replace them with Lords of Change. Also druchii defeated Daemons at least few times in Chaos Wastes-chaos invasion and taking back the Altar of Ultimate Darkness.

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Mon May 07, 2012 4:29 am
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Sezax wrote:
Quote:
That said, they still have the home field advantage.


Not sure about that. Chaos Wastes are still part of the mortal world, so daemons are still more out of their element there than mortals. Why would chaos otherwise bother with having kurgan and hung there, if it could just replace them with Lords of Change. Also druchii defeated Daemons at least few times in Chaos Wastes-chaos invasion and taking back the Altar of Ultimate Darkness.



Nurgle needed hobby, Slannesh gets board, Tzeetch rolled a D100 for it, and Khorn needs something that replenishes their numbers consistently enough that is larger then a field mouse and allows him to slaughter it regularly.

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Mon May 07, 2012 6:58 am
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