Cauldron of Blood Conversion - UPDATED WITH PICS!

Post by **cultofkhaine** » Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:10 am

I know there have been a few threads lateley on this subject but I did not want to hijack anyone elses so I have created a new one.

I am putting together a 2500pt Khanite army and for the centre piece would like to use the Cauldron of Blood.

This is where you all come in - and I need some comments from you all.

QUESTION 1:

Can the Cauldron move during the game, or does it remain stationery? (sorry never played warhammer as a game, more of a painter) I can not find anywhere in the latest rule book 7th edition that says it moves. or does it move the same distance as the attendants M5. In 6th edition it says its stationery.

QUESTION 2:

What is the legal base size for this model? is it fair to say that it can fit on a chariot base or could it be made wider? I would like to make it 5 units wide, by 4 deep to sit next to a block of 20 Witch Elves.

I have a really great concept for a conversion on this unit that I have not seen done before, but before I share anything with you all I'd like to clarify the points above. Thanks.

van Awful · Post by **van Awful** » Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:06 am

The Cauldron counts as a warmachine and can move as such.
So same M5 as the hags.

The base size is the one it comes with the original model and is indeed the chariot base.
On other hand warmachines dont count as having bases anymore IIRC.
Don't worry though, nobody will complain if your model turns out bigger then the original one.

van Awful

Phierlihy · Post by **Phierlihy** » Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:21 pm

Actually the Cauldron of Blood is the one war machine where you may actually get accused of "modeling for advantage" if you were to put it on a bigger base size. Because its one and only ability, to enhance troops around it, is a direct function of its base size, keep it on a chariot base or smaller.

Tyrannus deathbringer · Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:41 pm

I think you should go to town on your Cauldron of Blood project.

Gamers in general like great models and are unlikely to complain about base sizes if your conversion is fluffy and epic.

As long as your not making anything like this:

I dont think you'll have a problem in friendly/GW store games

For tournaments the rules might prohibit you. Generally larger base sizes are disadvantageous to you ...but as Phierlihy rightfully notes this is a bit different with the COB and its buffs. However I don't see why you cant offer to measure buff ranges from the centre of the base rather than the edges? But on the other hand if your huge model is used to plug gaps in your own lines and interfere with enemy movement then I can see why opponents might object in a competitive format.

Post by **cultofkhaine** » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:42 pm

@ Tyrannus you have scared me for life! This monstrosity should belong in a High Elf army :twisted:

@ Van Awful Thanks for the answers to my two questions.

I have been reading a couple of the other threads on Cauldron fluff to get some ideas and had this dilemma on how to have a moving war machine that could transport the Cauldron. The obvious answer was a carriage with wheels and a crew/pushing/pulling it.

The first issue was what type of crew – Slaves, Horses, Coldones, someone even suggested a Manticore. I don’t think the Cauldron would be transported at high speed so that rules most of these out. I was thinking slaves would be the best option until I read what Phierlihy said in another thread.

“I'm pretty sure pulling a Cauldron of Blood would be a great honor, not something left to the unworthy. If there really were a holy grail/ark of the covenant/excalibur/whatever, I can't imagine it would be led forth by the lowest sort of filth whose mere presence would offend a God…. I'd think an expression of my God's power would be transported with reverence and respect. And maybe a little bit of fear!”

Also I was reading in the 7th edition army book that

the Cauldrons are brought forth and travel with the Witch Elves as they march into battle

– there is no mention that I can find as to how its transported.

The presence of a Cauldron inspires them to greater war-lust while its magical properties serve to sustain them.

It also says

the Cauldron is covered with arcane runes that flicker and glow with a magic light.

It is the reference to magic here that got me thinking that I could do a conversion of the Cauldron and not have it on a carriage or pulled by anyone - but levitating off the ground and moved by dark magic! The Dark Elves did this with their Black Arks why not do it with their Cauldrons as well.

So my idea for the Cauldron is to have some sort of platform that the Cauldron and crew sit on and it's levitated by Dark Magic above the army (almost like an Arcane Fulcrum)

Now I just have to figure out how to build it.

Kargan daemonclaw · Post by **Kargan daemonclaw** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:00 am

I've just bought a box of Avatar of War dwarf warriors to act as bearers for my Spa pool of Khaine.

Hasslefree miniatures has a great range of naked elves and faries that you can have around your cauldron. I've also got a couple of elves that are designed to go into the blood.

It's certainly a perspective that it would be an honour to pull the cauldron, I think it's far more likely that the dark elves would not do menial labour and it would be a depiction of the wealth of the temple and their devotion to Khaine to have the cauldron pulled by incredibly rare and expensive Dwarf slaves.

Vulcan · Post by **Vulcan** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:13 am

I've done two Cauldrons, both based on the new Tiranoc Chariot chassis with - of all things - a 1 tsp. measuring spoon as the actual Caldron.

One is pulled by a couple Empire Flagellants (the ones in stocks) with a pair of attendants. The other is pulled by a pair of 'baby manticores' (saber-tooth tigers with Reaper demonic wings and GS stinger-tails) that are too small to fly off with it. :lol:

The baby manticores also serve as the attendants.

Both are on 50x75 bases I cobbled together from cavalry bases (before I realized chariot bases were available on e-bay

)

The current "Offical" COB doesn't come with a base. But it's about the size of a chariot base(50x100), so that's probably the one to go with. I imagine one could get away with the 60x100 'large monster' base; it's not that much bigger. Any bigger that that, and you might run into issues.

Nightwind · Post by **Nightwind** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:56 am

Vulcan wrote:...
The current "Offical" COB doesn't come with a base. But it's about the size of a chariot base(50x100), so that's probably the one to go with. I imagine one could get away with the 60x100 'large monster' base; it's not that much bigger. Any bigger that that, and you might run into issues.

If I'm playing the devil's advocate then:
The size of the GW CoB is only 30x62 (I'm measuring it at the moment), so a chariot base is actually much bigger than the "official size".

Vulcan · Post by **Vulcan** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:01 pm

Hunh. In the pictures it looks much bigger than that. My mistake.

I guess it's sorta like the Brettonian Field Trebuchet... that is about 60mm high. :lol:

That thing is SERIOUSLY tiny, I think our Bolt Throwers are actally taller.

Post by **cultofkhaine** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:07 pm

Ok - so my idea has evolved further and here are some work in progress shots of what I have so far.

I have replaced the statue of khaine with something smaller I have converted. I imagine painting it all in gold and then washing it in red as i covered in blood. Also the hand would be holding a heart with blood dripping into the cauldron below. I have mounted the top section with rare earth magents so I can remove for transport.

The base section I am still considering and undecided about. I am thinking of having the undersection as bright white / pale blue fading up into the rock above, possibly with bodies beneath.

Thetosh · Post by **Thetosh** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:10 pm

That's absolutely awesome! What's the piece of rock directly under the statue base made of? I can see the pointed part is the HElf Dragon rock but can't quite tell what the larger section is.

Post by **cultofkhaine** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:15 pm

@ thetosh

I have made the platform from a few plasitc bits. Yes the High Elf Dragon stand, also cut up sections of the base from Dreadstone Blight, and the top section is from a Garden of Morr base.

Thetosh · Post by **Thetosh** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:17 pm

P.S. Also, may I steal this idea?!

Thetosh · Post by **Thetosh** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:20 pm

Ahh,it's the dreadstone blight bits I didn't recognise

My only critique is that the statue itself might look a little too small when you place into account the height of the attendants. That being said I'm honestly not sure how one would go about making the statue bigger but not too big. And the conversion work on the statue itself is awesome.

Post by **Dyvim tvar** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:12 pm

Since I run executioners rather than witches, I did mine as an elevated executioners block where victims can be chained down and beheaded. It is crewed by some executioner models including a standard bearer to represent the BSB aspect. No wheels or anything so it doesn't look mobile, but that's no big deal.

Post by **Drainial** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:45 pm

I don't use the word awesome often; it has become corrupted and lost all meaning so understand me when I say that when I call the above WIP model awesome I mean it genuinely inspires awe.

Kendoka · Post by **Kendoka** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:30 pm

Really nice - except for the statue "walking on water/blood" which looks really strange...

Post by **cultofkhaine** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:19 pm

Hi All - So here are a few more WIP shots for the Cauldron of Blood. I have added some candles and skulls etc around the cauldron and a pile of shredded bodies at the base. I think I'm almost there with the conversion now, time to give it a base coat and get some Hag attendants!

Tyrannus deathbringer · Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:46 pm

Epic! I like the "walking on water" attendant too

Sacaspearman · Post by **Sacaspearman** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:58 am

Very nice. An altar worthy of Khaine.

That god-awful pink Monolith looks like a new unit for an upcoming High Elf book...

Ilmaestro · Post by **Ilmaestro** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:27 pm

That is a really, REALLY cool conversion! I love your attention to detail on the base, I can't wait to see this painted!

Meteor · Post by **Meteor** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:50 pm

Neat conversion, best so far that doesn't use an actual Khaine model.

Post by **cultofkhaine** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:05 am

Well I told you all I was a slow painter - here are some more WIP pics. I have finished the top section (pictured above) and I'm now working on the base section. Still very undecided about the colour... thinking perhaps it is to light and bright and that perhaps a darker black blue colour would be better. Anyway on to the top section and I might come back and re paint the underside.

As always would appreciate any comments.

Ilmaestro · Post by **Ilmaestro** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:45 am

Wow, fantastic mini there! I was skeptical about the statue standing on the cauldron, but it really came out well, nice job!!

As for the bottom section, maybe if we could get a pic of the mini as a whole that would help? I'm not quite sure what sort of effect you're going for, and at the moment it just looks a bit plain, but it may well work with the rest of the mini.

Nightcall · Post by **Nightcall** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:57 am

That looks really nice, I like how it has turned out. I did feel it looked a little busy from the earlier pictures, but it is coming together really well.