Langmann's Army of Nasty. The Khaine's Screaming Devils.

[Langmann]

Now that the Beastmaster is interesting and the revision is definitely official I am dying to try this list:

Gorann Nydrak’s Khaine’s Screaming Devils

Lords/Heros:

Sky Marshal Gorann Nydrak (Highborn) Gauntlet of Power, Enchanted Shield, Seal of Ghrond, Heavy Armour, Manticore. 416 Points.

Beastmaster Suvbian (Beastmaster) Lance, Armour of Darkness, Manticore. 259 Points.

Dread Sorceress Nytasha (Level 1 Sorceress) 2 Dispel Scrolls. 140 Points.

Total 815 Points.

Regulars:

Gilrak’s 1st Legion 17 warriors 4x4 formation command. 144 Points.

Tel’ Itlis’ 1st Sky-Rain 10 warriors repeater crossbow and shields. 120 Points.

Nydrak’s Hateful Volunteers 10 warriors 5x2 formation. 70 Points.

1st Raiders 5 Dark Riders musician and repeater crossbows. 127 Points.

2nd Raiders 5 Dark Riders musician and repeater crossbows. 127 Points.

1st Harbingers 5 Dark Riders musician and banner. 111 Points.

2nd Harbingers 5 Dark Riders musician and banner. 111 Points.

Specialists:

Suvbian’s Sky Coven 6 Harpies. . 78 Points

Dread Knight Tek’Nulm’s Doom Lancers 5 Cold One Knights Command Banner of Murder. 235 Points.

Telluris’ Executioners 11 Executioners Champion and Musician 6x2 formation. 139 Points.

The Grim Reapers 5 Shades. 70 Points.

Grand Total:

2147 Points /2150 Max (American GT Lists. Yes I think the Americans have this one right, 2150 points seems to be the right amount as far as I am concerned. Once again the Yanks do it right. Sigh.)


Basically the spear elves are there to supply ranks and that is it (Gilrak’s 1st Legion). Nydrak’s Hateful Volunteers are bait, a unit of Druchii that have sworn death-pacts to our enemies, having lost members of their own families in battle overseas. The “volunteers” march straight forwards towards an enemy uber unit, with Gilrak’s first legion right behind them and Telluris’ executioners to their flanks. This trap will allow the enemy to overrun the volunteers and into Gilrak’s Legionnaires. Then it’s my turn. Telluris’s executioner’s will flank the enemy.

Tel’Itlis’ Sky Rain will also flank the other side, ready to offer support and shooting at any enemy skirmishers or fast cavalry.
The Harbingers will take out enemy artillery, small skirmsher units, or enemy fast cav. When this is done they will flank attack when necessary. The Raiders will go about slowing marching and flank attack as necessary, possibly in combo with the Harbingers.

Suvbian’s Sky Coven will take out war machine crew that threatens the coming Manticore assault.

Dread Knight Tek’Nulm and his nobles will attack any enemy cavalry. A unit of Raiders will assist in this action.

The Grim Reapers will assault war machines and slow marching.

Dread Sorceress Nytasha will attempt to hold off magic for the first round, so save her worthless soul from my wrath. I hope to be on the enemy by the second round. Total dispel dice is 4, + 2 scrolls.

The manticores will dive straight at a weak part of the enemy's army, head on. They will go through any weak unit or small unit, ie: unit of enemy heavy cavalry. Once around behind the enemy it's hell from the air. Each manticore will assault an enemy unit from behind, easy breaking it, negating ranks and running them down. All the other troops are there to either reduce rank bonus (IE Manticore from front, unit of DR from behind) and to keep the enemy going in the right direction.

Now all I need to buy is another manticore.

[Shadowlord]

How about mounting the sorceress and giving her the death mask???

[Furion]

I like your double manticore idea, however I think too much else in your army is out of whack. Perhaps this is just me, but when I do a major assault, I always bring back up in the form of heavy cavalry or chariots to help in large frays that can go wrong. 5 knights isn't a bad start, but I'd drop some of the foot troops and maybe try a chariot or two. A suggestion.

Dark Riders might help you to some extent and you've got quite a lot it appears. Maybe my experiences with Dark Elf infantry haven't been real inspiring, but I generally exclude them as much as possible. I think a unit of Witch Elves in place of the spearmen might be a better choice if you're wanting to do infantry.

[Inquisitor black]

Yeh, Pierre is pretty much right...

Also, I wouldn't use a BMaster on Manitcore if you are mounting your highborn on one, as not only are you wasting points on terror (they don't stack), so I wouldnt advise it.

Take some witch elves instead of the spearmen, giving more able support to your execs, and the ability to crack open big units of cheap troops, which your execs and knights aren't as good at.

[Lord k]

nice word choice firstly

the Beastmaster is interesting

perhaps increse the unit of coldones cos its a hell of alot of point in 5 models which aint over difficult to take down through shooting

[Grogsnotpowwabomba]

I like this list. I like it alot actually. With all of that fast stuff, your Manticores are almost guarunteed to survive to do the damage they need to.

My only concern is the 5 strong COK unit. I often found these were the #1 target of my opponent's shooting and magic, and rarely were able to accomplish anything. But I also didn't have two Manticores rampaging around the field, so your opponents may view their threat level differently. You might want to consider swapping them for two Chariots and using the extra points for some more Spears/Executioners.

But this is a really cool and different list that I'm sure you could do very well with. Let me know how it goes.

Also, do you actually have two Manticore models?

[Zorn]

Very nice list, indeed.

One suggestion i have to contribute, however:

While beeing really cool and fluffy, the hateful Volunteers could be swapped with the chariot everybody mentions (yeah, i know, you'll have to scratch off some points elsewhere - example: give the BM normal armour, sdc and ench. shield: 5 pts cheaper and same save vs. missle fire, one less in HtH).

That way your bait unit is able to do some damage all of it's own - charge the big bad nasty unit you want to trap, inflict some wounds, flee from combat, etc).

And if the chariot is destroyed - hell, it wasn't really anymore expensive than your 10 warriors!

Also, it can act as a stand-in for destroyed cold one knights.

(Btw, did i mention that i love chariots )

Regards
Zorn

EDIT: Darn, i'm stupid. Just saw that your 4 special slots are used... forget what i said...

[Langmann]

I like your double manticore idea, however I think too much else in your army is out of whack. Perhaps this is just me, but when I do a major assault, I always bring back up in the form of heavy cavalry or chariots to help in large frays that can go wrong. 5 knights isn't a bad start, but I'd drop some of the foot troops and maybe try a chariot or two. A suggestion.

Dark Riders might help you to some extent and you've got quite a lot it appears. Maybe my experiences with Dark Elf infantry haven't been real inspiring, but I generally exclude them as much as possible. I think a unit of Witch Elves in place of the spearmen might be a better choice if you're wanting to do infantry.

Thanks for that.

The CoK are a distraction more than anything. Since I have two flying large targets on the board (which I will be hiding during placement) I hope that the CoK will draw shooting attention. during round 1/2 when the manticores come out to play. Since a unit of CoK even ranked has a hard time breaking a fully ranked unit without a HB or Noble, I plan to use the abundance of DR to supply flanking support. The CoK are not there to break his major units, but merely to remove easier targets like enemy cavalry. I may add another CoK just to absorb shooting.

More on the infantry later.

[Langmann]

Yeh, Pierre is pretty much right...

Also, I wouldn't use a BMaster on Manitcore if you are mounting your highborn on one, as not only are you wasting points on terror (they don't stack), so I wouldnt advise it.

The point is to try two Manticores out, IB.

More on the witchelves later.

[Langmann]

nice word choice firstly

Thank you, I am trying to keep the list fluffy as possible.

[Langmann]

Very nice list, indeed.

Thank you for that!

One suggestion i have to contribute, however:

While beeing really cool and fluffy, the hateful Volunteers could be swapped with the chariot everybody mentions (yeah, i know, you'll have to scratch off some points elsewhere - example: give the BM normal armour, sdc and ench. shield: 5 pts cheaper and same save vs. missle fire, one less in HtH).

More on the chariots later.

The HB is already using the enchanted shield.

Also if you notice, none of my heros have a SDC, which mainly may just be stubborness on my part. But I see this list as coming from a mountainous type area, where SDC are not necessarily available. However I may just use them as these things would get traded a bit.

That way your bait unit is able to do some damage all of it's own - charge the big bad nasty unit you want to trap, inflict some wounds, flee from combat, etc).

I don't think my bait will be able to charge as I am planning on attracting the fast heavy things with it.

EDIT: Darn, i'm stupid.

Yeah, me too.

[/\\//\]

The obvious problem with fielding large mosters is cannons can be the death of them. However as I found out today 2 monsters against one cannon means you are pretty much guaranteed to get one of them through. However as one Manticore bears a Highborn and on bears a Beastmaster your opponent will probably go for the Highborn mounted Manticore first. To counter this I would suggest playing very aggressively with the Beastmaster/Manticore, really getting behind his lines etc so the attention between the two balances out. Good luck with it .

[Dark Alliance]

More on this later...........more on that later..............I feel some major tactical / idea type posts are on their way Be good to have another really indepth discussion like the MSU birth of Mal's or Jeffleong's Redundancy thread.

I like the list, looks fun and is somewhat of a hybrid which I am having great success with myself lately ( part old school and ranks + part cavalry/mounted + part MSU/MSE ). I think you could consider swapping 2 units of DRs for a Hydra if you want to add some versatlity from time to time.

Furion made a comment about Elven infantry. My SpearElves are playing very well lately, as are my Witch Elves ( and my Chariots ) - more on all of those from me too later

The small bait unit lends itself to a very good conversion to fit in with your fluff, perhaps the Mordheim possessed models?

Gotta go, back to this later, loads to add................

[Langmann]

I like this list. I like it alot actually. With all of that fast stuff, your Manticores are almost guarunteed to survive to do the damage they need to.

Thanks Grog, if anything, it's fluffy at least!

My only concern is the 5 strong COK unit. I often found these were the #1 target of my opponent's shooting and magic, and rarely were able to accomplish anything. But I also didn't have two Manticores rampaging around the field, so your opponents may view their threat level differently. You might want to consider swapping them for two Chariots and using the extra points for some more Spears/Executioners.

But this is a really cool and different list that I'm sure you could do very well with. Let me know how it goes.

Also, do you actually have two Manticore models?

No, I have only one, now it may be neat to have two and I have dreams about what the new manticore will look like....

First on fluff:

This list I see coming from a mountainous area where the druchii happen to be quite poor... other than the easy availability of manticores which inhabit the area. The manticore is an expensive beast to feed and maintain, thus poor Sky Marshall Gorann Nydrak cannot afford to have a large contingent of some of the more expensive and rarer troops.

His nephew, Dread Knight Tek'Nulm has returned from overseas along with a small contingent of other poor knights, second sons of second sons. What they lack financially, they have gained in valor (due to the fact that they have had to nothing to risk except their poor lives, poverty has made them brave) and have returned bearing a prized Banner of Murder.

Along with Tek'Nulm have returned a less than half a legion of citizen warriors. All coming from the same area, they have seen their brothers and sisters unmercilessly killed in battle by a variety of enemies. This has made them hateful, they would sacrifice their lives in order to trap their enemies so that the rest of their kin may murder them. A few fresh relatives have been inspired to join.

The mountainous terrain that Nydrak hails from requires that his army be fast and mobile. The cold ones are immune to the cold temperatures and thrive in this environment. The dark steeds are fast and mobile troops. Warriors are easily obtainable from the small farming communities. Shades are found in this area and are willing to serve Nydrak for tradeable goods. Beastmaster Suvbian keeps a coven of harpies he has bred for Skymarshal Lord Nydrak who uses them for sport hunting purposes (much like falconry of our historical nobles). Dread Sorceress Nytasha is new to the game, and is someone Nydrak can afford now that his older brother Sorceror Ty Nydrak is outcast and leading an army of his own in Albion. Skymarshal Nydrak quietly supplies Ty Nydrak under the table, with troops. They both hope to reap financial reward from Albion's hidden treasures. In the meantime this has furthered Nydrak's financial decline.

Thus Nydrak has pledged new allegience to Malekith's coming campaign (Summer of Chaos) and is ready to try and regain some financial and personal reward in overseas pillaging. He now leads Khaine's Screaming Devils.

The Mechanics:

First this army needs to be fast. If I don't get in and do the nasty quickly my manticores will get magiked and shot to death. They need to be charging on round 2 at least.

I need distractions, and Cold One Knights I think are a better distraction than a chariot, even two chariots, and with the banner of murder I have extended their charge range something chariots cannot do. Also CoK I have found work perfectly with Dark Riders in taking out enemy heavy cavalry, or at least slowing them down.

The trap. The bait unit is there to take on the enemy uber unit, or at least slow it down. This unit is one that looks like it is going to be a problem from the start. This would be a fast moving character heavy unit, like a unit of Khorne knights, a unit of ranked empire IC knights, the Black Coach etc. You know the units people hate. Something that could wipe out the rest of my army while my Manticores are pussing around. A chariot isn't going to help me against those things.
So I plan to put the Dark riders down first and then the bait. Hopefully if he has such an uber unit he won't have much else left, I do have a lot of units even though I have two manticores. I need a lot of units. When he puts the uber unit down, I put down the bait right across from it. Then behind the bait I put Gilrak's 1st Legion. Beside that and a little behind are Telluris's executioners, and the other side will be the Sky-Rain, to deal with things that are going to shoot at the bait, and hopefully attract missile attention back.
Anyhow he'll drive his uber through my bait because I plan to march the bait right out immediately. He'll run them down and crach into my legionnaires. Then it's my turn immediately. I hit him with the executioners on the flank, which will remove rank bonus and do some significant damage. If I make the unit behind the bait so uber looking itself he'll try his best to avoid the trap. This way he might think the odds are fairly decent and go for them. All I need is for the trap to hold so that a unit of DR can rear charge him. That should set him up for the fold.

The Manticores are going to swing out on turn one. As they are character units I put them down last, and they will be hidden behind some large los blocking terrain in the case of him getting turn 1. They will swing out so they are close to a unit they can charge and break on turn 2. That would be a smaller unit of knights, skirmishers, or whatever. In the meantime the rest of my army has marched forwards completely, except the Skyrain who will move and shoot. Then on turn two the manticore will smash and break his smaller unit, going for the overrun to take them off the table, or even better flank charges that allow overuns into other units (though most people aren't stupid enough to set that up). One turn three they return and are moved to strategic positions that allow rear charge of his units. Turn four they hit him in the rear, set up so one can hit from the front if he turns while the other will hit from side or rear.

The knights are thus needed to take out anything that is coming to rescue his uber unit. The harbingers and raiders will help with that, along with taking out any necessary artillery. I need to greater range and movement of the knights to get into position for this.

The witches are nice, but they are expensive. I have already wrapped myself up in 400 points of manticore. It was witches or executioners, and I decided to go with the greater damaging executioners.

Knowing what AVA has said, long range artillery is a nasty problem for manticores. Luckily the short ranged but very damaging hellblasters and such are easy to avoid. My army includes BOTH shades and harpies. They will go after cannons specifically. If it impossible to rid oneself of harpies by cannonshot. Once they impact the cannon it's over. And I plan to do that on turn 2 when the manticores come out, as I will move the harpies on turn 1 into proper place. The shades will target another cannon and make life miserable.

If he is a magic sniper cheeser bag, I am more concerned than the artillery meister. Magic can destroy a manticore better than a cannon. Dread sorceress will use her scrolls on magic targeting the manticores. The harpies (most magic meisters don't also have cannons except empire) and shades will go after them, threatening, and hoping to divert his attention from the manticores to that threat. If he destroys my harpies or shades with lore of life, I care not.

I have thought about the hydra though. I used to always take it when I took a HB on manticore as it is another distraction. It did not fit the theme well, but it sure would help a flank attack with the bait trap...

[Langmann]

To counter this I would suggest playing very aggressively with the Beastmaster/Manticore, really getting behind his lines etc so the attention between the two balances out. Good luck with it .

Good point. I had planned on placing the HB manticore more out of reach as possible, but I hope they can both survive MOST of the time...

[Ash010110]

I like the list. My only suggestion would be to drop the BoM to make the CoK more of a decoy. With the extra points you could slap a war banner on your execs. As long as you remember to follow your plan of charging the monsters ASAP, you should be fine. You might also find it more advantageous to have the two monsters tag team. I know that a lot of players think a single monster is nasty enough. . . but two will guaruntee a win and rout. I've seen way too many monsters/characters whiff on the charge to trust one of them to go in alone.

Also bear in mind that the 'trap' you set will often backfire as your worthy foe will probably kill more spears than your executioners can kill your worthy foe. A better tactic would be to keep the legionnaire's just a bit further back. When he charges the bait, run and hope for them to get run down. Now charge in with exec's + legion and you'll lose less spears. Especially if this unit is cavalry and they only munch rediculously on the charge.

If you choose to accept the charge, that would be second choice, but you want to hope that he DOESN'T crash into your spears so you can minimize his nifty charge bonus.

May peace be with you,
Ash

[Langmann]

I like the list. My only suggestion would be to drop the BoM to make the CoK more of a decoy. With the extra points you could slap a war banner on your execs. As long as you remember to follow your plan of charging the monsters ASAP, you should be fine. You might also find it more advantageous to have the two monsters tag team. I know that a lot of players think a single monster is nasty enough. . . but two will guaruntee a win and rout. I've seen way too many monsters/characters whiff on the charge to trust one of them to go in alone.

Thanks Ash,

The plan WAS to use the two monsters as a tag team (maybe that wasn't clear). The only time I would use one is for a flank or rear charge. With the rear charge I am guaranteed a break, either in the first round of combat or the second.

Also bear in mind that the 'trap' you set will often backfire as your worthy foe will probably kill more spears than your executioners can kill your worthy foe. A better tactic would be to keep the legionnaire's just a bit further back. When he charges the bait, run and hope for them to get run down. Now charge in with exec's + legion and you'll lose less spears. Especially if this unit is cavalry and they only munch rediculously on the charge.

Yes, but he'll flee from my charge, and it will be unlikely that the executioners will get the flank. Not many players will let my executioners charge their cavalry. Since the cav can move so quick they will be able to turn around eventually if they flee. While this may not be a bad thing, as it will slow his uberness down, the other problem is that he'll never fall for such a thing. No point in it, to kill a 70 point unit of spears. I want him to think he has a chance to get the whole thing.

Also with the bait trap, he will get flanked by the executioners. This is a tactic that DA and I often employ against uber units, drawing them into a trap. Though DA does it with DR I believe. Anyhow we are taking advantage of a rules mechanic. He overruns my bait, and crashes into the spears, but there is no combat until my turn so my spears hold temporally as it were. Then I move and charge my executioners into his easily obtainable flank. I am going for ranks here with the spears, and yes they are easily killable, and they will be hurt, there isn't a doubt.

Here's what I am hoping for:
example:
10 man IC knights, 5x5 will do 3.5 wounds.

executioners do 1.57 wounds.

spears do .18 wounds.

CR = empire: 3.5 + 1banner = 4.5
CR = DE: 1.75 + 1 banner + 1 outnumber + 3 ranks + 1 flank = 7.75

I have 3.25 CR left to deal with, and if he has a lord in there, that should make up for it.

Anything more powerful like 10 knights of Khorne I would consider keeping the CoK back for the other flank, or possibly the manticore combo with that, once the Khornates are gone, the rest is in the bag, especially as with Chaos I have no shooting to worry about (for now, wait until the Chaos artillery comes out my friends, just you wait ).

If you choose to accept the charge, that would be second choice, but you want to hope that he DOESN'T crash into your spears so you can minimize his nifty charge bonus.

May peace be with you,
Ash

That would be nice, but good players will not allow it.

Warbanner on executioners is another idea, just to push it more in my way.

[Dark Alliance]

The better players will see the trap set up at deployment. Due to the MSU nature of the list in that you outnumber his units he will not be able to do anything about it, granted. But you need to ensure he has no choice but to accept the bait as the game progresses. Marching right out in turn 1 is obviously obligatory.

Assuming you are able to get the uber enemy unit into position you need to force his hand. Bear in mind he may choose to restrain pursuit/overun of the bait unit 'coz he can see the flanking threat. Electing to prefer to accept a frontal charge from the Exes rather than a flank. So how about having the knights or one of the Manticores positioned at an angle so that if he chooses to stay he gets hit in the flank anyway? He will then probably fancy his chances at killing enough spears to tip the balance of the combat res in his favour.

This is where the War Banner or the Standard of Slaughter come in, carried by the Exes of course.

[Mord.]

Like the fluff, nice work

[Langmann]

The better players will see the trap set up at deployment. Due to the MSU nature of the list in that you outnumber his units he will not be able to do anything about it, granted. But you need to ensure he has no choice but to accept the bait as the game progresses. Marching right out in turn 1 is obviously obligatory.

I have to full march anyway, otherwise my manticores will be the sole target. If I march out my infantry immediately, there are many targets, plus they can aid the manticores if one gets shot down by supplying ranks.

Obviously the trap will not be set up perfectly obvious like what I have written, it would be easier to show how it will be done if I wasn't constrained to using text. In order to make my trap appear obvious to you guys, I have to write it that way.

Assuming you are able to get the uber enemy unit into position you need to force his hand. Bear in mind he may choose to restrain pursuit/overun of the bait unit 'coz he can see the flanking threat.

Yep. Depending on what the uber unit is, ie: cav or infantry, will depend on my placements. If it is infantry I will put the bait right in front of the legionnaires, thus setting up easy flank charge with executioners if he doesn't overrun. If he elects to run, this is easier since it is hard for infantry to get away from other infantry in the long run he'll get charged or held up at least.

If his uber unit is cavalry, I have to worry about the executioners becoming a target that if charged he could easily destroy. I think that is a problem as well. Setting up the bait at a slight deviation off of the legionnaires usually disrupts his los/charge movement (requiring two wheels to get into combat with the executioners which is illegal) and still direct into the legionnaires.

Electing to prefer to accept a frontal charge from the Exes rather than a flank. So how about having the knights or one of the Manticores positioned at an angle so that if he chooses to stay he gets hit in the flank anyway? He will then probably fancy his chances at killing enough spears to tip the balance of the combat res in his favour.

That will be always be done, but I will prefer to use DR and/or CoK to hit him in the flank. It is imperative that the Manticores smash through his weaker flanker units immediately, and not get held up on some mid field scrum. If they don't become an alternative threat on the battlefield he will set up flankers on my trap and deal with it easily.

My manticores are my bolt throwers on the second turn, in a way.

However it all depends on what his uber unit is looking like, it can range from something simple like 6 Empire IC knights to 8 knights of Khorne with a fully loaded lord/general in the ranks. Obviously if I can take out something major like 8 Knights of Khorne with a general in turn two, then my HB manticore will do it. If it is just 6 IC knights, my trap should make him think twice or go through convulsive maneuvers to avoid/flank it.

The trap all depends on gauging his threats, while presenting a threat of my own. I don't just want to come into the game with only manticores in my strategy, I want the infantry to be able to contribute something as well.

Also I don't want to be labelled a cheesy git, bringing two flying monsters into a game isn't necessarily nice. If I brought in with that a unit of 8-9 CoK I think I might get punched.

This is where the War Banner or the Standard of Slaughter come in, carried by the Exes of course.

Yeah I am seriously considering the SoS on the executioners and hoping to roll big money. The nice thing about the war banner (other than it's cheap) is that it works every round...

[Yaguarete]

Mordekai: Actually, I believe the Manticore only counts as an additional hero choice if it's taken with the beastmaster. If that's true (I let a friend borrow my army book) then, no, you're not the only one to pay attention to the rules.

langmann: Definitely interested to hear how this list does in battle. I've been interested in taking multiple monsters myself, but I'm leery of making manticore / hydra conversions. As a personal peeve, I don't like taking "twins".

Also, I noticed that your ranks sound similar to Royal Air Force structure. Neat touch.

EDIT: Oops, got beat to the punch. That's what I get for going to the toilet in the middle of a post.

[Mord.]

touché! you'd probably have figured by now that I never use manticores?

anywayz, sry about it, I didn't know I've never used monsters in my characters cause they are so darn expensive and they are fairly easy to kill...

P.S.: I'll delete the post and let's forget my stupid comment

[Langmann]

Mordekai: Actually, I believe the Manticore only counts as an additional hero choice if it's taken with the beastmaster. If that's true (I let a friend borrow my army book) then, no, you're not the only one to pay attention to the rules.

langmann: Definitely interested to hear how this list does in battle. I've been interested in taking multiple monsters myself, but I'm leery of making manticore / hydra conversions. As a personal peeve, I don't like taking "twins".

Me too. (two? ok bad pun) Yeah I hate 'twins' as well. I keep having dreams that are keeping me up at night about how to convert manticore number 2. So far I have him on a rocky pillar, peering down at something he is going to charge. This requires bending his limbs somewhat and I hope not to make a mess of it...

Plus, as my wife is convinced this thing is a flying kitty-cat, I plan on painting the next one greying white and black, like it's older. This will be the HB manticore. I also want to attach a nasty banner to its feet or tail, hanging down over the rocky pillar.

Also, I noticed that your ranks sound similar to Royal Air Force structure. Neat touch.

You caught me!

EDIT: Oops, got beat to the punch. That's what I get for going to the toilet in the middle of a post.

[Grogsnotpowwabomba]

Yeah I am seriously considering the SoS on the executioners and hoping to roll big money. The nice thing about the war banner (other than it's cheap) is that it works every round...

I would go Warbanner. I only ever see the need for SoS when you have already given Warbanner to one unit. But if you only plan on a unit needing the bonus one time, that extra potential +2 could be worth it.

[Thanee]

I have used two large flying nasties already, and they can be really good (I almost always have one in my armies). I also used a Hydra in addition, tho, but it was a 2500 points list, where this works better.

The only problem I see, tactics-wise, is, that you lack units, that can attack, while the Manticores or Dark Riders can flank. There are the COK, but only 5 of them (besides, the Banner of Murder seems pretty much wasted for such a small unit, War Banner might be better there) and the Executioners, basically, both have few ranks, so must rely on wounds done. Only the 4x4 Warriors offer ranks, which can give you a decent headstart, when it comes to Combat Resolution.

I'd try to include a pair Chariots, probably, who can provide some damage in addition to the flank charge, and otherwise also work well with those smaller units.

You could replace the 5x2 Warriors, one unit of Dark Riders and the Shades maybe with 2 COC and some more Harpies (or otherwise beef up units, like the Executioners or spear-armed Warriors).

Bye
Thanee