"The Covenant of Sin" - 2K Chaos Speedbuild.

[Zool]

Greetings.

I thought I'd share how the finalized version of my Hellcannon Speedbuild turned out. In its previous incarnations it was known as "The Vanguard of Rapture", yet as its evolution progressed it shifted its weight from being primarily Slaaneshi, towards a much more mixed design - all in the name of flexibility.

In its new form, I have chosen to theme the build around The Seven Deadly sins - Pride, Envy, Gluttony, Lust, Wrath, Avarice & Sloth. This was done after discovering how the units/models I had chosen in terms of rules, fluff and actual models seemed a great fit.

The army is intended to be hard, competitive and flexible enough to take on all-comers, and I hope I have achieved that goal after the hours spend designing and finetuning it.

Im really satisfied with the list as it is, so it is unlikely this thread will spawn any real changes to it. I still like feedback and discussion though, so comments are ofcourse still welcome.

"The Covenant of Sin"


- The Trinity of Superbia -

General Sultice – The Iron Gauntlet of the Superbian Trinity
Ex. Champ - Mark of Chaos Undivided – HW - Flail – CA – Shield - Book of Secrets – Daemonic Mount
(194pts.)

Shagrath – The Grand Schemer of the Superbian Trinity
Ex. Champ - Mark of Tzeentch – HW – CA – Shield – Flail - Daemonic Mount
(224pts.)

Khul’thaan – The Primal Beguiler of the Superbian Trinity
Great Bray Shaman - Mark of Slaanesh – Lv.3 – HW – Bray Staff – Chaos Armour
(223pts.)


- The Children of Sin -

The Minions of Wrath - 5 Chosen Knights
Mark of Chaos Undivided – Chosen – Musician – Standard – Warbanner
(280pts.)

The Minions of Envy – 2 x 5 Marauder Horsemen
Flails – Musicians
(81/81pts.)

The Minions of Gluttony – 6 Centigors
HW’s – Spears – Light Armour – Shields – Musician - Drunken – Trample – Move thru Woods
(121pts.)

The Minions of Sloth – 3 Chaos Ogres
HW’s – GW’s – Heavy Armour – Shields – Musician – Cause Fear
(151pts.)

The Minions of Lust – 5 Mounted Daemonettes
(150pts.)

Voracity Incarnate – Chaos Hellcannon
Spellbreaker
(295pts.)

The Eyes of The Trinity – 5 Screamers of Tzeentch
(165pts.)

The Ears of The Trinity – 5 Chaos Hounds
(30pts.)

Point Allocation: (Total / 2000) – (Char. / 641) – (Core / 472) – (Spec. / 587) – (Rare / 295)
Army Composition: (Deployments / 10) – (Models / 48 ) – (Wounds / 72)
Magical Prowess: (Power / 8 dice) – (Dispel / 6 dice) – (Items / 1 Spellbreaker) – (6 Spell Slots)

- Zool

EDIT:
- Updated this initial list with the final small changes spawned by this thread.

[Infection]

I love the list, it is probably the most interesting chaos list i have ever seen. However i can't help but notice your tzeentch exalted champ is unmounted and will pretty much will be left behind wasting his considerable fighting ability.
I would consider swapping him for a tzeentch marked aspiring champion with the same equipment only mounted on a chaos barded steed. At the same time i would consider dropping one of the chosen knights to take the mark of tzeentch so that the aspiring champ could join the unit although this does leave you slightly weaker when it comes to phychology. However this could simply be cured by putting the aspiring champ next to the unit at all times so he cannot be shot and can decide to charge in with the knights if you wish.
Also i question the use of the book of secrets on the general seen as the best spell to take is steed of shadows but by taking the daemonic mount the spell is not useful unless the mount is killed. I would consider taking out the book for the power familiar on the great bray.
Also i have a personal preference of trolls over ogres as nothing beats the trolls when using the generals leadership. However i am unaware of your plan for the ogres and so i wouldn't take that suggestion seriously.
All in all an excellent list, hope i could be of some help.

[Hrath dreadaxe]

Hey. I like the look of the list alot, it is very interesting and not quite like any other list I have seen, when people put together mixed marked list they don't really seem right but this list does.

I am also Confused by the lack of a steed on the exalted of tzeentch, the only possible thing I can see is him joining the cannon. Also does the bray-shaman join the cannon?

I am not sure about the centigors ether, Don't you find the to unpredictable, sure they hit hard for their points but there is always that chance that they will fail on you.

And for my last point, how do your ogers fair, I am thinking of changing minos to ogers because they are cheaper and look better, do you think it is worth it?

-Hrath-

[Zool]

Thanks alot for you encouraging replies. I'll try explain why it turned out as it did.

@Infection
Its sorta funny considering the concerns you have considering the list, becuz these elements are actually something I use as sort of a combo.

1) The book of secrets: You point out that it is sort of useless on a mounted general and furthermore suggest I swap it with a powerfamiliar. The thing with the book is, that not only does it give me the steed of shadows spell, it also gives me +1pd and +1dd which is the exact same magic bonus a powerfamiliar would grant me. The book of secrets is just 10pts cheaper!
So for 10 less points I do get the same benefit of a power familiar while also getting a failsafe should the daemonic mount be shot/killed since I can then apply steed of shadows to maintain good pace on the general and have him act as a threat.
2) The Tzeentch Champ: The reason I field him solo and without a mount is ofcourse somewhat linked to issues with points, yet it also enables me to make use of the steed of shadows spell the entire battle, rather than just in case my mount dies on the general. This makes the tzeentch champ sort of a walking rocket, who's main job might be to rain magic missiles on people and protect my shaman, but also a possible chariot smasher or wizard-grinder if the option becomes available/desirable.
Since the tzeentch champ always goes for the 30" magic missile, he is most often kept in a somewhat drawn back position making use of the 5" rule considering shooting, while protecting my backfield and especially my Shaman from enemy witch-hunters.
Initially I went with two Slaanesh sorcs, but felt that my magic became somewhat inflexible focussing entirely on manipulative spells, and I think the presence of long range direct damage in my magic phase will come in handy quite often. To avoid weakening my Slaanesh magic too much, I then went with a GB shaman rather than a lvl 2, to be allowed the use of 4 dice when casting really crucial spells.

Considering trolls, my way of playing this list really doesnt permit for a Low-LD stupid unit on the table. Im aiming for a list where almost everything can be sacrificed if it meens improving position, and this includes my general. Since he's played very aggressively, I cant really assure that hes around the entire battle nor that hes close to the trolls, so they'd likely be a waste quite often.

@Hrath Dreadaxe
Hmm - the centigors have been sort of my underachievers so far, but they do always put an additional threat for my opponant on the table in terms of a highly mobile and destructive punch unit, so in that sense they are never a waste.
I really enjoy their ability to sprint thru woods, since it greatly helps an otherwise quite cluttered deployment due to the large amount of wide cav-units - they simply always go where the wood is, and as such take up little space. Furthermore they are really really great for baiting depending on how you position them around woods, as they can be used to draw units into the wood, where they'll struggle to get out again.
All in all they are alotta punch for the low price of 121pts.

I chose ogres over minotaurs mainly due to their nice armour save. I think the ability to go with heavy armour and shield, while being able to swap between GW and HW makes them very versatile. They can charge with 9 S6 attacks, but they can also take an enemy charge with HW+shield combo for a nice 3+AS and 3 wounds each. This makes them a viable tar-pit'ish unit against some enemy attackers, which I find to be a great option. Furthermore they are quite resillient to low-str shooting compared to minotaurs, and as such will sustain less damage while trying to get into CC.
All in all I chose ogres to provide a cheap yet serious punch unit, while bulking up the total wounds of the build. I simply felt ogres were a solid choice compared to for instance a 2nd unit of non-chosen knights, who might have nice AS and slightly better LD, but instead lack the punch.
(+ I love the Irongut models with their ridiculously large weapons, and chose these models rather than the normal chaos ogre ones. )

If anything negative should be said about ogres, it would be the advice to keep them far away from ranked up elite'ish infantry, as they simply cannot tango with static combat res while only hitting on 4's - ie. you can trust them to some extend, but you cannot expect miracles from them. Just enjoy that your opponant often fear them alot more than their 151pts actually suggest they should.

Again, thanks for your replies.

EDIT: Oh yeah btw. Its against the rules to deploy characters in unbreakable units, unless the character themselves are unbreakable - or so I've been told. I believe its covered in the 2002 annual, allthough Im not 100% sure its that one.
Anyways, thats the reason Im not hiding any sorcerers in the Hellcannon unit. If it was allowed I would have.

- Zool

[Rasputinii]

For me there is a really obvious change to make to the list. First up loose that waste of space 6th Chosen Knight and buy your Exalted Champ a Daemon Steed as well. Of course you don't want Steed of Shadows on your General - he wants to be toating Fire Ball, because its a little bit of damage and easy to cast. There is no reason to be taking SoS. That just makes the list make sense. As it is its disjointed, and too relient on "things happening". The Two Daemon Steed will make this list rock and roll all over the enemy . And you never wanted that 6th Chosen any way - Waste of Points.

[Infection]

Also off ras's point it makes the general more of a target. Usually when i see a set up with book of secrets and having a daemonic steed of somekind i automatically think steed of shadows and shooting at the character will simply mean a more manouverable powerful chracter and all i have done is get rid of his, effectively, 3+ ward save.
However if then i see he only has fireball all of a sudden it becomes a more desirable target as killing the mount will mean i won't be seeing him again for a long time. BUT i actually see this as a good thing, it takes focus away from your 44 point a model unit of chosen knights.
I also like the idea of 2 daemonic mounts, it sounds really sexy as then you'll have 3 really nasty targets ready to do damage, your opponent won't know what to shoot! on top of that you have mounted deamonettes and screamers going after those missile units and so enemy shooting is immobilised.
If, however, you don't go with this idea i highly recommend swapping the tzeentch exalted for an asipiring champ, it is as capable as doing the roles you listed just 20 points cheaper that can be spent elsewhere, like a mark on your knights...

[Zool]

Thanks for your replies people - much appreciated!

I did contemplate putting the Tzeentch champ. on a mount previously, but I felt sort of put off by his price climbing into the red zone when keeping in mind that I prefer things being somewhat sacrificial.
Once on a mount with a 50x50mm base, I can no longer benefit from the 5" shooting protection since hes now larger than cav-sized, and thus I would end up with sort of a conflict of interest.
- Do I screen the now quite expensive tzeentch champ by placing him behind a unit, or do I not screen him to be able to cast his spells?

Im completely unfamiliar with Discs of Tzeentch - are these things a solid option, or are they best left unused?
- Hows the targetting rules considering Disc riders screened behind cav units?
- Can he charge over units like a flyer can?

As for reducing the size of the chosen knights. Hrm... In some cases I agree that 6 chosen knights is in the vicinity of overkill, yet in other cases it is quite handy. The handyness is especially appearent when dealing with fear/terror causers, where too low US meens auto-breaking.
During times where terrain forces bottlenecks on me, while fighting against huge ranked up units, having a seriously destructive unit can also meen the difference between winning or loosing, simply because you need something that stands a good chance of breaking things in the front.
I had this happen a week or so ago, where I played against an O&G army. Randomized terrain created a terrible battlefield where flanking essentially became impossible due to terrain seperating the battlefield into 3 bottlenecks. Each of these 3 bottlenecks had a 1 or 2 bigass ranked units marching thru them, and it left me no option but to charge in the front or be hoarded. - I was very very glad I had that extra chosen knight when I was forced to call a charge in the front of his 25 Big'uns + general + banner of butchery etc. - 1 knight less and I woulda been stuck for a flankcharge by his 3 river trolls the next turn. - instead I breached his advance and in the end took home a confortable 1750pt massacre.

I'll consider it though, especially if you can tell me something positive about the disc of tzeentch, since this would be an equal point trade with a knight, and I love the disc model.

@Infection
The extra 20pts you pay to get an exalted champion, are IMO some of the best points you can spend in a chaos build. - +1WS, +1A, +1I at the price of 20pts! - want a magic item doing roughly the same? - you pay 70pts for the +1WS, +1S +1A on the Chaos Runesword.

- Zoo

[Infection]

Ok i'm now convinced.

IIRC the 5" shooting protection was invalid if the base was different, not if its larger. Also i don't believe the exalted would have an easy time keeping up with the knights and using steed of shadows to hurry him up is a waste of a power dice imho.

The disc of tzeentch is a good idea for helping him keep up and making him more of a threat as he can get into CC easier as you would be able to charge over the knights if you wished just like a flyer.
He will always have a LoS over the knights and moves like a flyer yet the enemy will not be able to have a LoS on him. Even if they did the disc has a healthy T5 in addition to the deamonic save and so is a good choice.

This is a straight swap with one knight and it is worth it and if at any point you don't feel the knights will be powerful to destroy an enemy (shouldn't really happen though) you can just send in the exalted with them! and watch any enemy roll on its back

EDIT: i may be wrong but i didn't think bray shamens were allowed to have chaos armour.

[Rasputinii]

1) The Disc isn't even worth discussing. Put it straight in the toilet....

2) Your mount is T5, with 3 Wounds a Daemonic Save. The rider has a 2+ Save and T4. He isn't going to die very easily, and he now going to become decent. On foot he is pure cack. You have one turn to Cast Steed of Shadows on Him and then Your general will be away, whilst your Champ is left on his own draining points from the game as he isn't doing anything. His spells aren't going to do a huge ammount and he certainly isn't hard to kill on his own, or likely to do anything to the opponents army. Its incosistant and pointless. With him on a Daemon Steed and the General on One they can tag team together to destroy pretty much anything thats get in their way. Furthermore enemy shooting has to be now further subdivided as you provide an additional threat to the enemy. Any shooting spent on your Exalted Champ to kill his horse means your General and Chosen are fine and dandy. You have so many more options now, especially concidering both Exalted can be both directly and indirectly screened by the Screamers for the eraly part of the game.

Sure every once and a while that extra Chosen is going to be helpful, but if you are sending them in alone, into the front of hard units and you loose then you deserve it. Your army is built around mutural support. Nothing should ever be forced to Solo charge the enmy, and if your are doing so the only reason is because that one unit can muller the enemies unit single handedly. If fear is a big worry then give the MoS, which is somethign I have concidered suggesting for a while.

As it is your list doesn't look very cohensive. You have bits and pieces all over the place, and your enemy should be able to easily deal with you because of it. I would also suggest turning that GBS into a great sorcerer simpley because he is only going to be able to hide in the Centigor (not a good idea) or terrain, which isn't always a dead cert.With the MoS he can't flee a charge and I will hunt that hugely expensive model who is basically your main magic phase and the majority of your anti magic to boot. If he is an exalted Sorcerer, he is going to be able to hide more places, especially if you give him a horsey - although having siad that I'm not convinced that the change in neccesary. By loosing that One Chosen Knight and One Centigor you can fund all the changes you wil ever need to your characters, which will in turn pull the whole list together, making it far stronger...

Ras

[Zool]

hmm - my points would come in short should I option for both the exalted sorcerer(lvl3) and the daemonic mount.

Removing these things:
- Great bray shaman
- 1 chosen knight
- 1 Centigor
- Enchanted shield swapped with Mundane shield
Total: 295pts

Add these things:
- Daemonic mount for Exalted champ
- Exalted Sorcerer(lvl3) + Barded chaos steed.
Total: 334pts.

Points missing = 39pts.

Alas merely removing a centigor and a chosen knight wont be sufficient to fund these changes, and I think the Book of Secrets is too good a deal to part with on this account at least.

Thanx for your replies.

- Zool

[Rasputinii]

Well don't loose the GBs then. Just go with the daemonic mount.

[Zool]

Just thought I'd toss in a small report.

The O&G army I played against earlier got its rematch today, but yet again got throttled. I initially thought I was doomed, after seeing the random terrain including 2 hills, one on either flank, effectively creating a bottleneck tight enough to be completely covered by the O&G units. This meant that flanking yet again was out of the question.
In the end though, some serious buttwhoopin performed by the chosen, my ogres being made unbreakable and tying up 2 big'un units, and the hellcannon puking on ranked units left and right saw me taking the lead quite comfortably.
At my 3rd turn my opponant conceeded, after loosing both his shamans to the beating handed out by my ogres, while looking at autobreaking on both big'un units after the hellcannon lept into the fray.
I had lost the centigors and my mounted daemonettes, but was otherwise pretty much unscathed, while being in control of the table with charges set up nicely everywhere.

When the list can play this solid against a horde like O&G on a table as small as ours(4'x4'), I feel even more comfortable when thinking about the possibilities with a larger table allowing for easier maneuvering.

- Zool

[Zool]

After contemplating things for awhile, I've decided to drop a chosen knight and the enchanted shield on Shagrath, to make the points for a daemonic mount for him

The positive things I see about this change:
- It strengthens one of the lackluster things about Tzeentch characters, namely their psychology.
- It gives him the wardsave'ish effect of randomized shooting hits, thus allowing me to play him more aggressively.
- Gives me the option of tag-teaming the two exalted champions for a grand 8 S7 and 4S5 attacks on a combined charge.
-It allows me to flex the spell-selection on Sultice, depending on my opponants shooting capabilities. No shooting and I can go for an additional magic missile to pose a bigger threat in my magic phase.
- It ups my woundcount by 2, and those 2 wounds are T5 with a 5+ ward.

Here's the updated armylist, and most likely the finalized one. Thanks alot for the valuable feedback from everyone. Oppinions, thoughts and questions are still welcome, but changes at this stage are unlikely.

"The Covenant of Sin"


- The Trinity of Superbia -

General Sultice – The Iron Gauntlet of the Superbian Trinity
Ex. Champ - Mark of Chaos Undivided – HW - Flail – CA – Shield - Book of Secrets – Daemonic Mount
(194pts.)

Shagrath – The Grand Schemer of the Superbian Trinity
Ex. Champ - Mark of Tzeentch – HW – CA – Shield – Flail - Daemonic Mount
(224pts.)

Khul’thaan – The Primal Beguiler of the Superbian Trinity
Great Bray Shaman - Mark of Slaanesh – Lv.3 – HW – Bray Staff – Chaos Armour
(223pts.)


- The Children of Sin -

The Minions of Wrath - 5 Chosen Knights
Mark of Chaos Undivided – Chosen – Musician – Standard – Warbanner
(280pts.)

The Minions of Envy – 2 x 5 Marauder Horsemen
Flails – Musicians
(81/81pts.)

The Minions of Gluttony – 6 Centigors
HW’s – Spears – Light Armour – Shields – Musician - Drunken – Trample – Move thru Woods
(121pts.)

The Minions of Sloth – 3 Chaos Ogres
HW’s – GW’s – Heavy Armour – Shields – Musician – Cause Fear
(151pts.)

The Minions of Lust – 5 Mounted Daemonettes
(150pts.)

Voracity Incarnate – Chaos Hellcannon
Spellbreaker
(295pts.)

The Eyes of The Trinity – 5 Screamers of Tzeentch
(165pts.)

The Ears of The Trinity – 5 Chaos Hounds
(30pts.)

Point Allocation: (Total / 2000) – (Char. / 641) – (Core / 472) – (Spec. / 587) – (Rare / 295)
Army Composition: (Deployments / 10) – (Models / 48 ) – (Wounds / 72)
Magical Prowess: (Power / 8 dice) – (Dispel / 6 dice) – (Items / 1 Spellbreaker) – (6 Spell Slots)

- Zool

[Zool]

After reading a discussion on soft scores under Druchii discussions, I got sorta interested in knowing how others view my army-design.
I find it hard, competitive yet non-cheesy, but I also know that oppinions are as many as theres people, and I'd appreciate other peoples view on it.

I'd like for people to toss in a few lines to go with their vote, explaining why they voted as they did - makes it alot more usefull when it comes to understanding how people go by calculating these soft-scores.

thanks in advance for your feedback.

- Zool

[Erloas]

I voted it a 4, maybe a bit higher on a larger scale system. Just a little down because the hellcannon doesn't fit real well since everything else needs to move, and do so fairly quickly.
And although you do have a lot of things on calvary bases, they are a good mix between fast and strong, not just piling on one or the other, so its ok. Having 2 characters on beast mounts seems like a bit much, but not being flying and terror causing also, its more acceptable.

It does have a very good mix of different unit types, decent magic, but not overpowering, I think its good.

[Rasputinii]

3. The army is nice, but the combination of Beasts, Mortals and Daemons, and CDs + the mixed marks takes it down two. Although I'm voting more on theme then AC, which because I have never seen the rules for being in thee UK I wouldn't have a clue how to score it ::D

[Evilzealot]

I clicked a 5, but I would give it a 4. It is an interesting army, generally different from what you normally see. As far as chaos goes, the units aren't the best of the best, but still useful. The downsides: Beast shaman lord of slaanesh, core is really low (which for a chaos army says quite a bit). Most importantly, I'd enjoy playing against it.

[Ant]

5. For the simple reason that I think I would have a blast playing against it no matter what I decided to use against it. You've also got a clear theme and, most importantly, the army is unique to you.

if I went to a tournament where i had to score comp then it would get max points if it had those 3 things. the only things i would score badly are ones that seem to have just copied one idea. i can see why some people would score it lower due to some fluff reasons though.


I don't think i've commented on the list itself yet, so i'll do that now. Basically, I think it's great. the first few incarnations i didn't think the hellcannon fit but at this version it seems like a great idea. Every time I look at this thread I try to work out how i'd combat it with my dragon list. All I can say about that is it wil be a very close game. Both our lists are extremely similar, but I think yours is more flexible. You have those few extra units that give you slightly more leeway if you make a mistake. Mine calls for slighly more precision play and of couse has the back up of the dragon.

The only weak links I can see in the list itself are the grt bray shaman and the ogres. The ogres because they will have trouble keeping up sometimes and are vunerable to things like chariots. This can be eaisily worked around though. They aren't nearly as good as dragon ogres, but then they're 80pts cheaper. Just don't expect them tobe quite as reliable as the rest of the army. They can work as a great support unit, as well as a hammer. Just don't expect miracles from them and they should do fine.
The GBS can be a bit of a liability. Mage hunting can be a bit of a problem for him. I used to run a GBS for a while but took him out because I felt he was too obvious a target for non los spells and the like; the type of thing I would let go on most other units I needed to use scrolls to preent being cast on the gbs.

Neither of these are major weaknesses though and can work with this list really well. The hellcannon can help keep the slower elements in some sort of cohesion with the army as a whole and i imagine enemy flyers will be too busy distracting the cannon to bother about the gbs a lot of the time.

Great list good luck with it!

p.s. nice to see ppl taking my advice and buying their champs deamonic mounts and flails for their characters.

[Roppleb]

I had to give it a three, on a higher system it would have been closer to a 3.5 or maybe a 4 depending on how it was played but it does feel a bit disjointed a farr as fluff goes and it feels a bit like every choice was made solely for the most effective unit for the points as opposed to fluff or balance, that being said, the list is awesome and the theme is cool, but to me it feels more like you made an awesome list and then found a theme that fit it well rather then picking units specifically to fit the theme

In all honesty, I wouldnt mind playing this army, it doesnt seem cheezey or unfair but it is hard, it doesnt go as far as to abuse any rules but it does seem to pick the most powerful combinations or equipment/troops/mounts, the double demonic mounts, and hellcannon feel a bit tacked on at the end imho

[Zool]

Thanks alot for all the replies! - Im glad there seems to be a consensus amongst people, considering the army being a worthwhile opponant to play against.
Im glad I managed a personal/original design completely composed of the models I like the most, making use of the play-style I like the most. Makes the game that much more enjoyable on my behalf at least.

@Ant
Aye - I completely stole the flail-concept from you after considering it for awhile! Now having played with that setup a few times, I'm never taking another weapon-option again. - they are simply amazing!

Ive gone to great lengths to try and make the design in a way where no one unit determines if I win or lose - meening that the loss of a particular unit shouldnt be allowed to cripple the entire army. Its surprisingly hard to achieve an allround "sacrificial'ish" pointcost on units in a mortal chaos build.

Ogres:
I went with ogres mainly due to their superior armoursave. In previous incarnations of the build, I used undivided minotaurs, but simply felt they were too frail considering fair amounts of S3/4 shooting. Since I really wanted to avoid too much mark-mixing, I didnt jump on the nurgle-minotaur-bandwagon, and instead optioned for Ogres due to the flexibility their equipment gives them. I love how they can option for both S6 as well as a 3+ AS.
Its true though, as imposing and cool as my ogres look, its important that I dont put too much faith in them beyond what their 151pts suggests they can perform. They are super allergic to elite infantry with good static combat resolution, and they really really dont like chariots. That being said, if you use them sensibly either in a supporting role, or by giving them cheap support that out-speeds chariots, and they can be a nice threat your opponant cannot ignore.
On a sidenote, I really wanted Dragon ogres at first, untill it dawned on me that they are a rare-slot, and as such are off limits due to the hellcannon. Cant remember who pointed it out to me, but it was a sad day!

GBS:
Aye - I get a bit freaked out by him as well due to witch-hunting and such, and in general have to play him very carefully to avoid handing him off.
The Slaanesh deck with its lack of demand for LoS ofcourse helps alot, as I'll mostly attempt to stash him in a wood/terrain of sorts. When that is not possible, he sorta requires a bodyguard, where he gets deployed behind a unit with a secondary unit close by to fend off enemy witch-hunters if they manage to breach my advance.
Im not more attached to him though, that should people invest an unreasonable amount of ressources on hunting and magicking him, I'll happily hand him off it it means the rest of my army isnt contested sufficiently to stop my onslaught.

Hellcannon:
I love it! - even if people think Im nuts for putting it in a speedbuild.
Its sort of my great equalizer against some things I'd otherwise struggle against - this being huge ranked units with well-protected flanks, huge cavalry units and big-monsters such as dragons.
I deploy it dead-center, using it as sort of a 14" diameter zone of death, and will then use this as the baiting endzone for failed enemy charges if at all possible. If i get to bait a unit so it lands within 6-7" of it, it should statistically jump it, if not it will move close to you and puke on you.
Its ability to re-roll scatter combined with my rather superb guess-range makes it a nice bigmonster threat, and I'll most often try to bump a sufficient amount of wounds offa stuff like dragons to a degree where they suddenly have to be carefull where they land and what they charge.
It absolutely rapes enemy infantry blocks if it gets into combat with them, due to the spew ichor it comes with, and provides a really solid anchor in the center of my army when facing horde-inf that tries to march you down. Otherwise template hits are quite devastating when put ontop of block-units.
Its ability to force LD checks on things is extremely valuable, and can really shaft people if they deploy their units too close together, and provides a solid threat to some of the more spooky armies like skavens and bretts.
Its my multi-purpose terrorcauser, that buys me a shooting phase, threatens big nasties, grants 60" forced LD tests often on multiple units, provides the most solid centerfield anchor imaginable, and draws cannonfire offa the rest when that need arises. (Sadly its highly allergic to great cannons )

Got longer than expected - I'll stop for now. Thanks alot for your encouragement, and good luck to you as well.

- Zool

[Zool]

I had to give it a three, on a higher system it would have been closer to a 3.5 or maybe a 4 depending on how it was played but it does feel a bit disjointed a farr as fluff goes and it feels a bit like every choice was made solely for the most effective unit for the points as opposed to fluff or balance, that being said, the list is awesome and the theme is cool, but to me it feels more like you made an awesome list and then found a theme that fit it well rather then picking units specifically to fit the theme

In all honesty, I wouldnt mind playing this army, it doesnt seem cheezey or unfair but it is hard, it doesnt go as far as to abuse any rules but it does seem to pick the most powerful combinations or equipment/troops/mounts, the double demonic mounts, and hellcannon feel a bit tacked on at the end imho

Thanks for your reply!

I actually pretty much started with the Hellcannon, and then added things to the build from there, choosing units mostly based on what playstyle I enjoy the most and what models I find the best.
It was all spawned from the desire to have a chaos army that acted in all phases, and at first I contemplated Manflayers. This led to some considerations on the hellcannon, and loving the model I ran down and bought it.

You are absolutely right about the theme - it was attached to the army long after I had begun finetuning it. The reason for this, was that the army actually started out being purely Slaaneshi, using 2 units of MD's and steed of slaanesh on the general. The desire to use the book of secrets combined with a lack of points then made me switch the general to undivided, which in return meant a switch to a daemonic mount rather than SoS. (What a man wont do for 10pts! )
Later on I felt my magicphase was too inflexible due to being purely slaaneshi, and tzeentch crept into the build as screamers and the Shagrath character. By now I felt the Slaanesh-build was pretty much dead, and I had to start working on new fluff and a new theme for the build.

Alas, the theme was born after the build.

That being said, I really like the theme and how it fits the units I have chosen. It had a certain amount of halleluja-feel to it when it dawned on me, I must admit.

Again, thanks for the replies.

- Zool

[Infection]

A way to perhaps defend your GBS is to replace him with 2 normal bray-shamens, you have the hero slots to do so. A Bray-shamen marked with an extra lvl and bray staff and a un-marked Bray-Shamen with just a bray staff would cost around the same points yet losing one will still mean you have a strong magic phase, although i recommend the slaanesh one to be a little more protected to perhaps force your opponent to settle for the other.

EDIT: although i feel this would probably interfere with your theme

[Zool]

A key reason I optioned for the Great Bray Shaman rather than more lvl 1's and 2's, is due to me believing that a slaanesh magic phase often really needs the ability to cast spells with 4 dice.

Its basically impossible to harness the otherwise great possibilities of the 12+ Delicious Excruciation with a lvl 2 sorcerer, and with the right setup this spell is potentially gamewinning. (I recently massacred an O&G horde by making my Ogres unbreakable and tying up two 25+ Big'un units with his general and both his shamans in em, while proceeding to kill his shamans with the ogres untill he conceeded.)

Enrapturing spasms is feasible to cast with a lvl 2 using 3 dice, allthough its a bit on edge. I view this spell as sort of an all-or-nothing kinda spell that you really really want to go thru at the right time. To achieve this casting it with 4 dice is crucial, as it otherwise becomes too easy to dispel.

I basically feel the slaanesh deck is sort of cut in half if you dont have access to casting spells with 4 dice sometimes.
Furthermore you can risk getting a terrible spell selection on a lvl 2 slaanesh sorcerer unless you use a spellfamiliar, since he will more than likely just be aiming at either Luxurious torment and/or titillating delusions. End up with the 12" magic missile and the 12+ to-cast unbreakable spell, and you risk having an unemployed sorcerer for the following 6 turns.

All the technical stuff aside, I like having a strong beast character present, since I feel it ties my unit selection together having a beast-leader fielded. I sorta like having a selection of characters that somewhat matches the choices Ive made for units and their marks.

Thanks alot for your feedback.

- Zool

[Lloyba]

i like the elements of the list and i've been following the evolvement of the covenant of sin for some time, though rarely posting in your threads.

as for the tactical aspects of the army my take on these things might be useless, but as a player i like the list a lot. i gave it a 4 for the scores, the 1 minus being the all-around random feel that your list might seem to have, though i know that it is quite the opposite.

the list is balanced, it even has a shooting phase, you've certainly come up with a theme for it and the overall feel of the list is very interesting. As ant said the list must certainly be fun to play with and against. Imho the GBS is a good option, while 2 lv 1-2's might provide you with more defence perhaps, the GBS fits the overall offensive theme better and provides you just with that supporting offensive magic phase that imho fits with the army.

it's weird that looking at all the lists you, ant and other chaos players put up here almost make me want to start chaos

[Danceman]

i´d give it a 3-4(probably a 4). a beastman leading an army with very little in that way, all around very competitive(sp?), having a strong magic as well doesnt bother me though as chaos has little in the way of shooting anyways.

otherwise its a nice list, certainly be able to claim a win here and there