The Destroyers of Innocence

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Xizor
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The Destroyers of Innocence

Post by Xizor »

Hey,

Well after a good suggestion from my partner (childish snigger, lol) Ras man, I have broken my main topic into two. So let me give you a bit of background...

The Destroyers of Innocence is the overall name for my Army of Slaanesh. Its leader is the mighty Daemon Prince Xizor, a reborn Druchii Anointed, who led my previous army, a Cult of Slaanesh, The Black Sun. As such, the Iconography used by The Destroyers is the logo of The Black Sun. Confused yet...no? Good...

Ok, this army started out as a Daemon Legion of Slaanesh and after alot of playtesting I took a list led by Grievous, a Keeper of Secrets to the UKGT Finals this year. Unfortunately, the list fared really poorly (mostly due to the most consistently bad dice rolling ever!). After this mishap I wasnt put of by the DL atall, and set straight about constructing a new list. This was heavily influenced by some conversations with Tim Fisher (of the Dragon Slayers club) at the Finals. I would atlast be fielding Xizor as a Daemon Prince (model used as an exalted before) and the Keeper would be put away. I wont go into detail on this list here, though if you are interested (you should be!) please follow its story here.

So where does this bring us to? Well it brings us to the announcement that the SoC lists will not be legal for the UKGT this year. I was initially gutted as I had my heart set on taking this "weaker" list and learning it inside out...a challenge to qualify with for sure (basically the same as what I did with my CoS). Anyway, with that out the window, I had considered just taking a hard Lizardman army...but after a few games its just so boring, and as I said - I like a challenge. I'd like to have an army unlike anyone elses, not a generic, broken list.

So, I have once again decided I AM taking Daemons, it will just have to be taken from HoC/BoC. My original thoughts were to have the Daemonic general with 2x MD (Will these still be legal as they are from the annual?!) and a unit of Furies as core. Stocking up on Tuskgor chariots for special etc. I played a couple of fun games today with a list based around this theory - tho I had a Kipper and Giant in for fun (I wanted to use both models). I got a good idea of how such a list might work, and really liked it...and have since evolved it.

I am now looking to take a Daemon Prince with Blade, Splendour, Hunger and Unliving Idol making him count as a Beasts general. I will then take Tuskgor Chariots as core (using my Slaanesh Chariots to model rep as them - Ill convert up a few more for the job if playtesting proves it works, and providing its legal - Ill need to wait for the new rules pack for that). Mounted Daemonettes (once again, if they are legal), and Furies for Special...then fill out on some other stuff. My other two Character choices will be a Bray Shaman with scrolls and an Exalted with the BoS.

I am really really excited about such a list though, obviously, Im counting on a few things;

1. There wont be any composistion rules that will effect this army.
2. I will be able to use my Daemon Chariots as Tuskgor ones without bother.
3. Mounted Daemonettes will be legal
4. That 7th ed wont throw up any rules changes that affect my list too much.

But we will have to see what the new GT Pack heralds. In that time I cannot just not playtest, so I have come up with this list for the time being...

This is the very first stage, so pretty much everything can be changed (and may well have to be when we get to see the GT rulespack!). However, I am keeper the Prince with his current set up of gifts for sure - though his magic level is certianly variable. I also would have liked to use my Pleasureseeker models to stand in as something...not sure what though. Anyway, check it out, and Im looking for some good feedback here :)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-The Destroyers of Innocence-
2,000 point "Unliving Idol" Chaos Army

Xizor (Daemon Prince) - Mark of Slaanesh, Level 3, Unliving Idol, Blade of the Ether, Soul Hunger, Diabolic Splendour. (545)

Joruus C'baoth (Exalted Champion of Chaos) - Mark of Slaanesh, Great Weapon, Book of Secrets, Enchanted Shield. (174)

Nar Shaddaa (Bray Shaman) - Mark of Slaanesh, Level 2, 2 Dispel Scrolls. (180)

6 Mounted Daemonettes (180)
6 Mounted Daemonettes (180)

6 Furies (90)

The Gimp (Giant of Chaos) - Mutant Monstrosity. (225)

Tuskgor Chariot (85)
Tuskgor Chariot (85)
Tuskgor Chariot (85)
Tuskgor Chariot (85)
Tuskgor Chariot (85)

Total; 1,999 points
Power Dice; 8
Dispel Dice; 6 + 2 Scrolls

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Controversial? Potentially decent? Sheer crap?

Let me know!

Chris
Last edited by Xizor on Fri May 19, 2006 8:31 pm, edited 13 times in total.
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Post by Xizor »

Ok, here are the replies by other people (taken from my former topic)

Fr0 wrote:Oh... my.. god.

Bring out the beasts!

I was testing mortal chariots, but hell you might have something here. Beast chariots deliver a pounding and are cheap! And a Giant? And a Chariot smasher?

Holy crap, this is looking about as cool as my new list.

Wow, what a way to improvise. I think it's neat!

Fr0


Xizor wrote:
Hey,

Well to be honest I half expected my post to "inspire" others with DL to turn to the pages of HoC and BoC!

I think point for point Tuskgor Chariots are probably more effective than their Chaos counterparts, so thats definately the route I want to go down. Im sure the final list wont have 5 Chariots in, but I just spammed them in with all my remaining points. Its certainly somewhere to work from though.

The Giant is mostly in because I love my model for him (though I am updating him with a Whip once Ive finished the Furies on my desk).

The Exalted is a character I love, as is just a boosted version of what I had in my CoS. I think I managed to get great useage out of that character, and it seemed fairly popular with others here (including yourself Fr0 - remember all those PMs to me questioning its legality when you were just a spamming newb - as opposed to the spamming mod you are now!).

Im very excited about developing this list into one that I can comfortably win games with. Incidently though, Im hoping not to have to paint too much more for this. I will use my Chariots of Slaanesh as Tuskgor Chariots (I dont see a prob with this as its not like I can use them as what they are supposed to be!). Obviously if I do go for more than 2 Chariots Ill have to do some more up, but oh well.

Really, I need to see what the new rulespack brings...if they keep it to just army books, it throws Mounted Daemonettes out the window aswell, which will suck...

Fr0 - I saw your list on thedl.com and it looks ok , but seeing as you are not a GT player im unsure why you dont just continue playing with DL?

Anyway, keep it coming

Chris



danceman wrote:Now the BOC/Daemon list... It might be strong but its awfully one-dimensional. Its just a personal preference but just add something else.
Like a block of Marauders for your exalted one.
Not only will they give some variation but some ranks and protection for your champion cause now he seems pretty naked and lonely

Cheers dancey


Fr0 wrote:
Xizor wrote:Well to be honest I half expected my post to "inspire" others with DL to turn to the pages of HoC and BoC! ;)


Exactly what I had done on TDL..

Xizor wrote:The Exalted is a character I love, as is just a boosted version of what I had in my CoS. I think I managed to get great useage out of that character, and it seemed fairly popular with others here (including yourself Fr0 - remember all those PMs to me questioning its legality when you were just a spamming newb - as opposed to the spamming mod you are now!).

Not sure how I should feel here. I had good reason to question that, it was never actually answered with anything but "I take it to GT's" until someone on TWF explained it to me.
Xizor wrote:
Fr0 - I saw your list on thedl.com and it looks ok, but seeing as you are not a GT player im unsure why you dont just continue playing with DL?


Like I said, I'm sure that other TO's that have the option now will be slightly influenced by this decision.

I think your list will run pretty tight, and has a tonne of support. I'd be interested to know how it works in playtesting. Let us know (as if you could resist posting!)

Fr0


Xizor wrote:
Hey,

Thanks for the replies once more.

danceman - The Unliving Idol list isnt what I'd call one Dimensional really, sure the Chariots pretty much are, but I have plently of other speed/support/magic elements in there aswell - giving me the potential to control all phases...potential!
The Champion will never be join to a unit, he just strolls along in the move phase then uses Steed of Shadows (via the BoS) to fly into Chariots, War Machines, Fast Cav, Missile units etc. With his 2+ save vs shooting he is fairly resiliant.
I definately do want to get some other things into the list, and these will come from remvoing chariots. Im certainly hoping to get a game with this version of the list on tuesday though.

Fr0 - Firstly, the reason I never really gave much comment on the whole Champion combo was because I couldnt work out how it could be illegal! Still, no need to dwell on that now.
I think you have picked up on a key point of what im trying to achieve when you mentione support. As this is what this list should do well. Theres an almost infinate number of tag-team combinations in here and I have stuff capable of taking out almost any unit (Dwarfs may cuase trouble tho).

Incidently, I have finished my Furies, and they look great IMO. I will put up some pics in P&M in a bit...though it is my 21st Birthday, so I feel maybe Im a little sad!!!

Chris


Right, so there you have it all so far...I'd now love to hear what you have to say...keep it coming

Chris
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Post by Rasputinii »

Well, my first two toughts are:
1) MDs will be legal
2) What the hell is the Exalted doing there?
He looks so out of place, being the only mortal, and completely destroys any possible fluffiness. Without him the list is fairly evident of the intentions behind it, with him its a min/maxed sort of list. I am almost surprised not to see a unit of Chosen in there if you see what I mean....

My basic answere to your list, is that it is too timid. Not in a battlefield sense, but in what you are trying to do with it. If you are keeping the exalted go the whole hog and put the Chosen in. You have a DP so it won't be a really cheesey list, and will make the Annointed make more sense, or loose the exalted and play a Beasts list following a Deamon Prince, in whcih case you could put in another lvl 2, for the magic 9th dice.

I think the list has real potential, both on the table and on the P&M desk, but isn't there yet. I think the first thing is to revolve the Exalted problem. He isn't fluffy and doesn't add a huge amount to the list.

I am also not convinced that you need all 5 chariots. I'm not sure why, but I can see a herd or two having a role (depending on how you play the list) but also Centigor, or even Ogres / Minos...

I guess that in the end it cmes down to how competative you wanna go. You clearly don't want to go as charity, or challanging, as you say, or as you did with the Black Sun, else you wouldn't be playing a list like this - but how competative are you looking to go, and what relationship to fluff do you plan to have?

I 'm just not entirely convinced matey. The idea has plenty of promise, but I am not to keen on it now (well I am not sure I am keen on it). Let me play an imaginary game or two with it in my head, and then I'll let you know what I think of it on a more gaming level...

Ras
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Post by Xizor »

Hey,

Excellent, this is the first (of many I hope) posts about this list that really gets me thinking, thanks Ras.

I too think MD's would be legal, but dont want to get my hopes up too much, ya know what I mean?

The Exalted is a character I like very much indeed, and i think he does bring a whole lot to the list. The potential of a WS7 S7 A4 character flying 20" at you in the magic phase is often worry enough to most opponents. In past experiance, they normally save dice for it (once they know what you are doing...often pulls a scroll first turn), which of course frees up spells elsewhere, or, they let him go and he flies in vs Chariots, War Machines, Fast Cavalry, small missile armed units etc. I used an identical character (though Aspiring not Exalted) in my CoS and it was so much fun to use, and almost always has great use within a game. He is staying!

As for the Chosen...they are only not in the list because I didnt work them in. I would love to have the following unit in the list...

5 Chosen Knights of Chaos - Mark of Slaanesh, Champion, Standard Bearer, Warbanner. (310)

Its one I've used before to great effect. As for fluff, all the mortal stuff fits in with stuff I have written in the past. The Black Sun had an allied contingent of Mortal Puppets led by Joruus C'baoth - so no probs there. The Beasts stuff will need a little thinking, but not a real problem.

I also am of the belief I dont need the 5 Chariots either, but as previously mentioned, I just put them in their to fill the points up.
I have since decided I am NOT going to use my Chariot of Slaanesh model for the Tuskgor chariots, and have now got 4 plastic Orc Chariots that i shall convert for the list.
Realistically I only really want about 3 Chariots in the list.

I have considered Beast Herds and I think maybe there is a place for them, but in quite small sizes. Again, Centigor, Ogres, Dragon Ogres and Minotaurs are all looking like tasty options...but I must remember, essentially I want a nice fast Slaanesh DL'esque list and not just a Beastman list.

As you mentioned, I want to have a good list, but not one that is blatently hard, just something different I can get to work really. Fluff is not something Im 100% concerned with now, as I know I can easily come up with what is needed later on.

I will be having my first playtest game (maybe more with luck) on Tuesday, so before then I want to have a first draft Im happy with. So I shall be having another go tonight (what a wild birthday night I know - girlfriend is really ill though, so meh).

Taking the Giant out is easily the quickest way to find more points, but frankly, my model is cool! He is staying.

Whilst replying to your great post Ras I have come up with a few ideas now.

Cheers man,

Chris
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Post by Xizor »

Hey,

Right, I think I have got the list down to the "basics" - ie what I think should stay...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-The Destroyers of Innocence-
2,000 point "Unliving Idol" Chaos Army

Xizor (Daemon Prince) - Mark of Slaanesh, Level 3, Unliving Idol, Blade of the Ether, Soul Hunger, Diabolic Splendour. (545)

Joruus C'baoth (Exalted Champion of Chaos) - Mark of Slaanesh, Great Weapon, Book of Secrets, Enchanted Shield. (174)

Nar Shaddaa (Bray Shaman) - Mark of Slaanesh, Level 2, 2 Dispel Scrolls. (180)

5 Mounted Daemonettes (150)
5 Mounted Daemonettes (150)

5 Furies (75)

The Gimp (Giant of Chaos) - Mutant Monstrosity. (225)

Tuskgor Chariot (85)
Tuskgor Chariot (85)
Tuskgor Chariot (85)

Total; 1,754 points
Power Dice; 8
Dispel Dice; 6 + 2 Scrolls

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, we have 246 points to play with...unfortunately, thats still not enough for the Chosen. The only ways I can see about getting that are either to drop a unit of MD's which I definately dont want to do or to drop the Exalted to a Aspiring and make the Prince level 2 - that would give me 306 points meaning I could take the following set up...

5 Chosen Knights of Chaos - Mark of Slaanesh, Musician, Standard Bearer, Warbanner. (300)

However, my main concern there is only level 2 on the Prince so Im not sure...

Some other ways to spend those 246 points are...

* Put it back to the original list above

* 3 Dragon Ogres - Great Weapons, Light Armour. (237)

* Tuskgor Chariot (85)
Beast Herd - 6 Gor, 6 Ungor, Foe Render. (88)
5 Hounds of Chaos (30)
5 Hounds of Chaos (30)

etc etc etc....

HELP!!!

Chris
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Post by Rasputinii »

Happy Birthday matey! Yay! Birthday! *starts to sing*

Anyway...

Have you considered ignoring the beasts and just going Mortals and Daemons Instead?

In place of the 5 chariots you could have a unit of Chosen, 2 units of Marauder horse and another Giant (giver or take a few pts). Ok, maybe not the giant, but you culd have a unit of Ogres, or something like that. You might be able to get the Giant if you lost the mutant monstrosity and the furies. I duno. Hang on...

...

Hmm. Maybe not. Those chosen are just damned expensive!

I'll have a think and get back to you tomorrow.

Happy Birthday
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Post by Xizor »

RasputinII wrote:Happy Birthday matey! Yay! Birthday! *starts to sing*


Thanks man :)

RasputinII wrote:Have you considered ignoring the beasts and just going Mortals and Daemons Instead?


Yeah its something I have thought briefly about. But once again I think I'd like chariots in there - Chariots are cool! I have just had a little play around with Master of Mortals list and Im not keen on the way its going, it just seems to be deviating too much from my original vision. Im actually looking back at the original list and am liking it more.

I think I will continue to use that as a base, but maybe drop 2 Chariots and 2 MD's (one from each unit) to get a unit of 3 Dragon Ogres.

Incidently, what size bases are DO's on? If they are on 50mm I could use my 'Seekers...
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Post by Druchiishootlord »

I think that the DO are on a regular 40x40 base Chris. It's the Shaggoth that's on a 50mm base.
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Post by Xizor »

Yeah, thats what I thought, I was just hoping...

meh, Im not going to go jumping from list to list every game, I want a nice slow steady build up to an army im happy with. So if I dont get any new ideas i like by next Tues Ill just try with the 5 Chariot army...though Im certainly looking to take the 1,754pt list above and add on to that.

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Post by Geoguswrek »

why don't you just swap some seekers onto smaller bases (if you can get them to balance and so on) then you can use them
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Post by Xizor »

Hey,

Thats a pretty simple idea that for some reason I hadnt thought of! However, Id also like to make it so that they could also fit onto 50mm bases...hhhmmm, could be tricky to do well actually.

We'll see what the final list is before worry about aesthetics

Thanks though man

X
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Post by N. johansson »

Good day.
Must start by saying that I really enjoyed your posts on the evolution of your DL, (both here and on TWF & DL).
Never had the reason to join Druchii.net but your last post kind of spoilt it (since I’m back to HoC myself and been playing around with similar ideas.), anyway just some thoughts about your list:

1) Why the Idol on the Prince? You have enough daemons to cover core and since you are planning on dropping a couple of chariots you really just waste points.
2) As RasputinII said the shaman is a bit misplaced, a mortal sorcerer is just 10 points more and comes with 4+ save. Furthermore as he’s your primary magic defence (2 scrolls) he really needs some form of meatshield against all the no LoS spells that will be coming his way.
3) I love the Exalted with BoS (actually I have the same hero combinations, except my mage is a sorcerer) but as you said yourself most people scrolls/dispels the spell leaving him stranded for a major part of the game, giving him a unit (marauders) to join gives him greater flexibility.
4) Personal preference but I really think you should increase the furies by a couple of models (they lack the true ward save so are quite vulnerable).

As a side not, have you thought about using your PS as Mounted Nettes (1 seeker as 2 nettes)?
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Post by Lamekh »

An idea woul be to use the pleasureseekers as Fiends of slaanesh, well that's what I'm going for anyway (or at least trying......)

Quick Question: In HoC 2 Spawns as one choice? Thanx
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Post by N. johansson »

2 spawns are 1 rare choice.
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Post by Bad beast »

Lamekh wrote:An idea woul be to use the pleasureseekers as Fiends of slaanesh, well that's what I'm going for anyway (or at least trying......)

Quick Question: In HoC 2 Spawns as one choice? Thanx


in both Hordes of chaos and beasts of chaos the spawns are a 2 for 1 choice

also mounted Deamonetes will still be legal remember, they were introduced in the 2004 Annual well before the Storm of Chaos came around, so while pleasure seekers don't make the cut, the mounted Deamonettes will
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Post by Xizor »

Hey,

Some more good replies, thanks people:

N. Johansson - Glad you've enjoyed reading my stuff man, and im pleased to have given you the push needed to get posting here :)
Ill take your points one at a time...

1) In the current incarnation of the list (with the 5 Chariots) the Idol gift is obviously essential. In a lot of my variant ideas I would agree that its pointless. So untill I get a good idea of really where Im going with this, the 5 Chariots will stay, thus will Unliving Idol.

2) Not a bad point I suppose, and one I must admit I've not ever thought of. Gives me a better range of possibilties for conversions as well which I like. Depending on how other changes pan out, this may be a switch Im able to make. A possible downside is the move 8" over 10", but meh!

3) Hhmm, Marauders are very cheap undoubtably, but, they dont really fit the list, and unless I go Master of Mortals (not the way I wanna go) I dont see myself having the special choice free for such a unit. Also, Ive never had problems with the lone Character...so whilst this is undoubtably a good possible choice, its one im hugely unlikely to go with to be honest though. Its nice to have such suggestions made though, makes for good thinking.

4) The maximum unit size for Furies I will field is 6 I think. I want them as a nice cheap expendable unit, and not one that I depend on too much or anything.

Finally, your point on using 'Seekers as MD's is a great one! That is certainly what I will/would use them as. This gives us a potential 18 MD's to work with. Im not quite liking the idea of 3 units of 5 (using a PS and 3 MD models per unit). Anyway man, thanks for giving me a really good reply like that. Lots of food for thought.

Lamekh - Wrong base size man, but not a bad idea none the less.

Bad Beast - Yeah that is what Im counting on, and with the new draft that Im considering (3 units of MD) I could be screwed if otherwise...

Ok, what with all that we have discussed here, lets have another look...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-The Destroyers of Innocence-
2,000 point Chaos Army

Xizor (Daemon Prince) - Mark of Slaanesh, Level 3, Blade of the Ether, Soul Hunger, Diabolic Splendour. (535)

Joruus C'baoth (Exalted Champion of Chaos) - Mark of Slaanesh, Great Weapon, Book of Secrets, Enchanted Shield. (174)

Nar Shaddaa (Bray Shaman) - Mark of Slaanesh, Level 2, 2 Dispel Scrolls. (180)

5 Mounted Daemonettes (150)
5 Mounted Daemonettes (150)
5 Mounted Daemonettes (150)

6 Furies (90)

The Gimp (Giant of Chaos) - Mutant Monstrosity. (225)

Tuskgor Chariot (85)
Tuskgor Chariot (85)
Tuskgor Chariot (85)
Tuskgor Chariot (85)

Total; 1,994 points
Power Dice; 8
Dispel Dice; 6 + 2 Scrolls

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I quite like this variant, and its a bit more Daemonic aswell....unless someone gives me some better ideas, this is what Im going to be playtesting tomorrow
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Post by Xizor »

Hey,

Sorry, more replies from me (Im still looking from input from all of you!)

OK, well after having another little thought about things I am considering changing the above list. Rumour has it that in 7th edition, Fast Cavalry are not going to be able to negate ranks...which in my list would leave this often important job down to The Gimp!

I would be more than happy to run with 3 units of MDs for now, but maybe in the long run swapping one unit for some Centigor might be good.

---------------------------------------------------

- 1 Fury (-15)
- 5 Mounted Daemonettes (-150)

+ 5 Centigor - Shields. (95)
+ Unliving Idol on Prince (10)
+ 6 Hounds of Chaos (36)
+ 5 Hounds of Chaos (30)

Total; 2,000 points

---------------------------------------------------

What do we think about that?
For now Im continuing with the previous version tomorrow (the 3 units of MD)

I have a game planned against a Clan Moulder Skaven Appendix list tomorrow, and possibly a Slaanesh Chaos armty.

Chris
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Post by N. johansson »

Hi again.
I liked your other list better (3 nettes units) because of the following reasons:
1) It was more daemonic than the present one (Weak argument I know, but I love daemons).
2) Five furies are to few to be worth it (again my opinion) mostly since you need the outnumbering against war machines, losing 2-3 (one d6st 3) spell will stop that and losing one will also remove the flank bonus.
3) The Hounds will only give you problems… They are to slow to screen the Nettes and they risk panicking the chariots.
4) I love Nettes :D

But I must say that the Centigors are great even though unreliability can be a pain (especially in a list like yours).
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Danceman
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Post by Danceman »

yepp, I agree with mr johansson here. Like the nette-list better too.
Faster and you can more effectively out-maneuver your opponent.

...and I am happy to see the 6 chariots went down to 4 :)

cheers dancey
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Keledron
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Post by Keledron »

Hi Xizor,

definately see possibilities with the 3 'nette list, not so sure about the giant and the units of "5" though.

Here's an alternative idea using 6's for consideration. basically a chariot has gone in favour of the extra daemons gives a nice balance with 3 chariots and 3 mounted 'nette units

Damon Prince equipped as before
Exalted Champion equipped as before
Bray Shamen MoS, 2 Scrolls

6 Mounted daemonettes
6 Mounted daemonettes
6 Mounted daemonettes

6 Furies

Tuskor Chariot
Tuskor Chariot
Tuskor Chariot

Giant monstrous mutation

1,999 pts
Life is short, death last for ever like a journey on British public transport!
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Bananaman
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Post by Bananaman »

Hi Chris,

I took a list to Heat 3 04 that was similar in a few ways (mainly the characters). I had

DP lvl 4 MOS, moster of mortals, blade, splendour, hunger.

lvl 2 bray, mos 2 scrolls

Exalted, book, GW enchanted shield MOS

6 puppies

6 Centigor

6 Furies

6 Mtd Nettes

6 Mtd Nettes

5 Chosen FC, MOS, rapturous std

2 Fiends

Came 36th which was'nt bad to say I didnt play a single practice game with the list at all! Only finished painting the night before (got nominated tho 8) )


My experience was that it was fragile as hell (which you expect with Slaanesh), magic was good (ditto), fast (duh), relatively hitty (though not quite enough), and hated horde armies with a passion, undead are a pain in the ass too, get bogged down get screwed. WE will hurt as well. Along with the usual suspects v's Slaanesh like MAD & SAD. I was thinking of getting some chariots (mortal) to add in some extra hitty but then started the DL.

Looking at your list I would advise getting in a unit of centigor (when they go frenzied they hit like chosen!), some puppies (cheap screen), less Mtd Nettes (too fragile without the true ward), hitty magic can easily wipe a unit per spell.
Seeing as you have unliving idol try and crow bar a small herd or two in. THey are so useful and will guard your flanks well (even swift armies need a flank sometimes :lol: ), and can eneter difficult terrain freely so you can flush irritants out (a bit like toilet duck).

If you dont fancy the herds then drop one unit of mtd nettes ( personally I would only take one unit of them, but I know you likes your fast women! :P ), some bits and bobs and get 2 units of 5 centigor with shields (more bang for your buck than mtd nettes, not fast cav either) and 1 maybe 2 units of puppy dogs. Adds some warm cheap bodies(well screens) to the mix and the Centigor add some wood walkers and more S5.........which is nice. Spawn are always a laugh, not uber effective but they have their uses.


Dunno if that is getting too far away from your original plan though?


Chris Legg had a fair bit of success with his HoC which had various guises but went something like

Exalted on steed GW helm of eyes
exalyed with book GW
2 Brays MOS one lvl 4 one lvl 2.

2 herds FC

2 dogs

furies

centigor

2 mortal chariots

5 slaanesh chosen rapturous FC

Giant

Think that's it. It was manouverable, hard hitting, good magic offence/defence And had a couple of nasty tricks. I suppose you could take Xizor instead of the Bray lord and drop a few things? just a few ideas on a tried & tested list.


hope that helps! :D


Oh and you will miss the +1LD on the DP :cry:
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Xizor
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Post by Xizor »

Hey,

Well I had a pretty good days gaming today (though it was interupted for 3 hours when I had to return home to let my Girlfriend in who had locked herself out!), unfortunately however, I only got one game in with this new army as I had to play a campaign game with my Legion and had a pre-arranged game of 40K with.

Anyway, before I go onto the report I will address all previous posts...

N. Johansson - Yeah man the 3 MD list is certainly how i want to go, the other list was just some random thoughts (Centis are cool tho...). Your point on the Hounds is totally valid for sure. Please continue to follow this thread and reply. Your posts are very helpfull. Cheers man.

danceman - Hey, 4 Chariots is definately a much better number than before! They still do everything I want without being over the top, or too many points invested. The great manourvability added by the MD's is too good not to love aswell!

Keledron - Im very pleased indeed to have you posting here :)
Im glad you are liking the basic idea around this list, and I also understand why the "5"'s may not be so popular. As it stands though, I think your list is nicer in terms of fluffiness, but possibly mine is stronger. Im not sure though as because its you posting it makes me seriously consider such a switch. However, I dont see the MD's doing alot more than what they do now, other than being fluffy, in 6's - and the 4th Chariot adds a whole extra unit with which I can threaten my opp with. Obviously having 6 in the units makes them more resilant to any magic or shooting coming their way. To be honest, I think Im still gonna go with what I have for now - but please continue to try and convince me otherwise ;) and dont think Im not listening or anything! Also the Giant is in there as he is fun and a cool model. Also he is potentially pretty usefull aswell (ok, so some games he will suck big time!).

Ok, once again, thanks for all replies and please please keep it coming. Now, onto the game, and a return to my old style of battle reports, which may please some of you (though please note the fluff will be poor as I am making it up as i go along, plus its 1am and im very tired!)...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-The Destroyers of Innocence-
2,000 point Chaos Army

Xizor (Daemon Prince) - Mark of Slaanesh, Level 3, Blade of the Ether, Soul Hunger, Diabolic Splendour. (535)

Joruus C'baoth (Exalted Champion of Chaos) - Mark of Slaanesh, Great Weapon, Book of Secrets, Enchanted Shield. (174)

Nar Shaddaa (Bray Shaman) - Mark of Slaanesh, Level 2, 2 Dispel Scrolls. (180)

5 Mounted Daemonettes (150)
5 Mounted Daemonettes (150)
5 Mounted Daemonettes (150)

6 Furies (90)

The Gimp (Giant of Chaos) - Mutant Monstrosity. (225)

Tuskgor Chariot (85)
Tuskgor Chariot (85)
Tuskgor Chariot (85)
Tuskgor Chariot (85)

Total; 1,994 points
Power Dice; 8
Dispel Dice; 6 + 2 Scrolls

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Game 1 - III

In the months that followed Be'lakor's return to the Realm of Chaos, Xizor had felt his own grip on the mortal world weakened. Worse was that fact that his Daemonic followers were weaker still.
After a series of defeats against the army of Tzeentch Lord Queze-Xicu, Xizor had realised that in order to continue his masters bidding he would need a new, stronger army. Banishing all but his fastest and most powerfull followers the mighty Prince set up to find this new army...

Joruus C'baoth spat out a mouthfull of blood and kicked the Clanrat to the floor, following the move with a deft spin of his glaive, decapitating another. The Exalted Champion hated Skaven. For what had seemed like weeks now he had been fighting this never ending tide of rodents. His own troops had been depleted badly, and those of the Bray Shaman, Nar Shaddaa looked little better. Still, the two unlikely allies continued to battle on.

It had been nearly a 3 years since Joruus had heard the news that the Druchii Anointed, Xizor, had fallen in battle. In that time he had regrouped the remnants of The Black Sun's allies, or Puppets, as Xizor refered to them. Now, as their leader he had continued to fight under the banner of The Black Sun, knocking up a large string of victories in the name of Slaanesh.

Staring keenly accross the battlefield, Joruus could just make out a huge regiment of Skaven approaching the battlefield, pushing along some huge contraption. Suddenly a deafening noise was emmited as the Screaming Bell rang. All the foul Skaven seemed reinvigorated by this abomination, the Beasts of Chaos quite the opposite however as the majority of Nar Shaddaa's troops fled the battle, never to be seen again. Just as the battle was beginning to slip away, a scream; to rival the Screaming Bell in terms of volume, filled the air. Looking to both his sides Joruus saw a large number of Daemonettes speed onto the flanks of the battle, riding their strange mounts. The sky was almost darkened as a flock of Furies descended upon the Skaven warmachines, and held up upon a pair of white feathered wings was a huge Daemon. It gave a glance to Joruus before flying straight off towards the Screaming Bell.

With that one look Joruus knew that Xizor had returned....


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

vs Skaven - Clan Moulder Appendix List

My first game with this new army was against the mighty(!) Ben Diesel. Whilst Im not a fan of Appendix lists I didnt have a reason for him not to use it (hell, it couldnt be any worse than that stupid Skyre list he used against me last time!). As it happened, it turned out to be a very nice balanced list. He had: Grey Seer on Screaming Bell, 30 Clanrats w/ Ratling, Master Moulder, 2 Harbingers of Mutation, 30 Clanrats w/ Ratling, 2x 30 Slaves, 2x 2 Rat Packs, 5 Rat Swarm bases, Warp Lightning Cannon, 2x 5 Gutter Runners and 5 Night Runners.

From left to right I set up:
MD, Chariot, Shaman, Prince + Furies, 2 Chariots, Giant, Chariot, AC, MD, MD

My plan was to send my MD's round the sides to take out his Rat Packs and Skirmishers before closing in on his flanks. The Furies would go mage, WLC and Ratling hunting, as would the AC w/ SoS. My hard hitters would then advance on his lines, before tag teaming charges into his main units.

Turn 1
I went first. The MD's on my left where up against the Rat Swarms. Not much fun for sure, but id rather tie him up with them rather than him putting them against my chariots or something, so I push up towards them. On my far right I got both my MD units in great posistions to take out both his rat packs next turn without a problem. The Furies flew into a rocky outcrop that was infront of the main skaven line (I decided the Prince didnt actually need his Fury shield wall for now). I the advanced my Chariots, Prince and Giant towards his lines. The Shaman took up residence in a nice safe wood. Its worth noting I had used the rocks the furies were in as a shield from the WLC so my Prince and 3 Chariots were safe. Magic started off well as my Prince miscast and lost a wound! ouch! The AC then cast SoS, which he let go, much to my surprise. So I declare a charge on his WLC, which he then tells me I cant see as he has blocked it with giant ratpack, a debatable point, but I didnt wanted discourage him from thinking about what he is doing (nice to see him not playing SAD!) so I just charge the Giant Rats instead. That combat goes "well", as I kill a rat. I hold though.
His turn doesnt really herald much, he shuffles his main line backwards and manouvres a little. His magic phase sees me use both scrolls but I keep him at bay. Shooting does no better, though one Ratlnig is in range of Furies (my error) but he goes OTT and fires a dud, phew. The other one is out of range and his WLC does S4 and hurts nothing. In combat my AC does another wound, yey! But this time he takes one in return aswell...what a gypo! Luckily he still manages to hold (makes up for his spooned rolls!).

Turn 2
Time for a couple of charges. the MD's on my left went into the Swarms which had started to look towards the flank of my main battle line and on the far right the MD's go into the other Giant rat unit. My Furies charge his Ratling Gun which holds, and the other MD unit goes into the Slaves. All my big hitters move foward again trying to get in charge range. Magic is equally crap as my Prince miscasts AGAIN, losing the spell and a magic level this time! My MD's do a load of wounds on the Swarms for two dead in return. Not bad. the 2nd unit beats the Slaves, who promptly....hold! Grrr. The 3rd unit breaks the Giant rats, pursuit leaves me no option but to go into the WLC, this is something he disputes a bit, but finally we conclude Im correct and he loses that aswell...bonus. The Furies of course take out the Ratling Gun and overrun...now behind his lines. My AC perks up a bit after seeing the rest of my force do well and draws combat this time. However, the Giant Rats he is fighting dont quite like the sight of all the other rats dying and fail a panic test...poor AC, just as he gets going they leg it. He stands there like a lemon.
His turn. Again, things back off a bit, giving him one more turn before I charge. His Giant Rats fail to rally and leg it off the board. Magic is really quite effective as combined Vermintides take two Wounds off the Giant, and kill a Chariot! This is S2 stuff! In shooting his Ratling Gun takes 3 wounds off another Chariot. In Combat I am reduced to one MD fighting the Swarms, but i nearly have them on half strength (good going really as this will be the points back from the MD's and have held them up). The Slaves break vs the MD's and are ran off the table. Looking good, just gotta survive Turn 3.

Turn 3
No charges, I just move in for the kill. Pretty dull turn for me. The lone MD doesnt die to the Swarms and nets half points for them!
His turn, and randomly his Master Moulder thing charges out the unit at the Chariot with one wound - I suddenly realised I was a bit too close! I flee the charge - which annoys him a treat. He then spends his magic phase skitterleaping this guy out of danger again. His Grey Seer also takes a wound from a Warstone OD! In his Shooting phase he levels the Ratling Gun at the Giant who takes 12 shots head on (only 4 wounds left) and takes 1, yes ONE! wound...bonus. My last MD fighting the Swarms dies a heroic death.

Turn 4
Ok, here comes the pain. Time for all my charges, though due to his bell as his units are now frenzied or something, so no terror tests. My Chariot also rallies. Right, the Prince and the Giant go into his Screaming Bell unit, and I put a Chariot into the Slaves, and the other into the Clanrats. Everything else prepares the final flank charges to crush him Turn 5 (a turn later than I woulda liked, but him deplying deep and moving back helped him delay his death!). I get Snakeyes for my Chariots impact hits, but it all goes ok in the end (mostly thanks to Tuskgors + Crew of doom!!!). My Prince does FIVE wounds on his Grey Seer, but he saves 3 (so we think he survives, but I remembred, reading my notes he took a wound earlier from Warpstone). The Giant swings his club (um...that should be whip - or worse!) and knocks the rats about. Nothing breaks...though if the Grey Seer died like it should've everything would've.
Anyway, that was rectifed in his turn when the Grey Seer was killed by my Prince, the Giant killed 6 Rats also...that unit was rundown and the Slaves broke also.

At that point he called it as all he had left were all his little skirmishy units (which did NOTHING), 2 Swarm bases and some Clanrats in combat with a Chariot about to be flanked by some MD's and the AC

Result: Massacre to The Destroyers of Innocence

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A good fun game. I was very pleased with how the list worked. I feel I got some pretty bad luck it places, but overall it rounded out ok, and I think that was a fair result, and one Id probably expect to pick up (well, a win atleast) vs a Skaven army like that. SAD would be a different matter...but I just wanna learn the ropes with this list right now!

Anyway, I certainly plan to continue with this variant for now, and will hopefully play my Colleagues Slaanesh Chaos list (mostly written by me!) on Saturday.

Hope you enjoyed that report...its nice to be motivated to do them like that again.

Chris
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Xizor
Chris Tomlin
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Post by Xizor »

Hey,

bananaman - Hey Tim, thanks for posting over here :) Thats a great post and I've only just read it after writing that essay like post above. Im pretty knackered now, so will take some time over it at the weekend (Im away rest of the week) and post some thoughts then. Thanks alot, there is some good food for thought in there...and ideas I like.

Chris
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N. johansson
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Post by N. johansson »

Congratulations on the win and I hope you’ll get a lot more of those in the near future.

The biggest question is if you are trying to go for a DL feeling or for pure strength, since you really can’t (at least not in my opinion) get both. Would be nice to know your priorities since kind of hard to give feedback without knowing. My opinion is that if you go fluff you should go for Keledrons list (most resembles the SDL), your list is somewhere in the middle and Bananamans is probably the most competitive one.

Personally I’d go for the one you are playing with now since it is very different from anything I’ve ever seen and having something that is your “own” is a nice feeling.

Btw I guess the EC turning into an AC was just a typo (or a CoS habit), other than that nice report.
-Jacta alea est.
Julius Caesar (100 BC - 44 BC), Suetonius' Divus Julius, XXXII
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Bananaman
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Post by Bananaman »

If you decide to take some centigor and want to keep a Slaaneshi feel take a look at the centigor I used

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/ ... my0022.jpg A laborious job mind.

The whole HoC army as well as my lizzies and DL are on this thread 'ere http://warhammer.org.uk/PhP/viewtopic.p ... 2&start=26

Before I went with the DL over the HoC I was definitly thinking of taking a Giant and the Chosen. It gives you two hammers that can also do well in a protracted combat. Something that no other choices you have are capable of. I would definitly take both I think the list really needs that bit of hittyness/staying power and besides they terrify people. Just stick them in their face and watch em squirm! :lol:

They are costly mind but worth it. I think if you take both of them you can get away with 2 tuskgor chariots which is handy as I believe you have 2 DL chariots that could stand in admirably?

Again I am getting miles away from your original list, but then I always find that the first list I write bears no resemblence whatsoever to the final list! :lol: Think of the modelling possibilities the chosen offer as well, could be cool.

So something like this?

Characters....look good.

Core

5 pups

5 centigor

2 BoC chariots

Special

5 Chosen FC MOS Warbanner

6 Furies

5 Mtd nettes

5 mtd nettes


Rare

Giant

That's about 2k give or take (I think it's 80 over). I dropped Mutant on the giant as I think it's a liability, it's fun and the 5+ save can be handy, but he puts a wound on himself too many times and can be costly. I know Rob & Chris L tried it out and don't rate it.

To get it under I would drop the 2nd nette unit and take a 2nd unit of centigor (will keep chipping away at you :lol: ), maybe drop a fury and the chosen champ to get you under? If you can find the points stick a braystaff on the shaman. Cheap and can save his neck on the odd occassion he gets cornered.

I used to be a stickler for the multiples of 6, but hardly anyone notices, yo don't get any benefit and lets face it you took multiples at the GT Final and Slaanesh hardly blessed your dice did he? Stick him in the eye and go with min units. That'll show the cross dressing perv! :lol:


Edit, here's an 18 month old tourney rep of my HoC army as well for you to peruse. You may as well benefit from my mistakes :D http://warhammer.org.uk/PhP/viewtopic.p ... ght=heat+3

Helpful chap me.
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