Corsair Weaponry Choices (Questions not Answers)

Amarel · Post by **Amarel** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:20 pm

Just wondering if there's any kind of clear winner on the weapon choice front for the Corsairs? Given their ability to potentially slow fleeing troops my gut feeling is that 2xHW is still going to be king once the novelty of the Uzi's has worn off but I'm keen to gauge any opinions on it, if people have them?

Krystalice2020 · Post by **Krystalice2020** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:26 pm

2 hand weapons ALL THE WAY!

They are our arrow resistant attack dogs and should stay that way. a range 8 (or whatever) pistol isn't going to make them the new RxBmen... it greatly diminishes their attack ability whilst giving them little actuall benefit. When are you EVER within 8 inches of a foe unless you're TRYING to get charged?

Lord woulfe · Post by **Lord woulfe** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:28 pm

if they were thriteen inches away at the begining of the move,
but I agree with the +hand weapon,

Javert · Post by **Javert** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:37 pm

Two Hand Weapons definitely. Corsairs are a really strong troop choice with 2HWs now we have Hatred. I'm going to be using four ranks of seven in my army, with the SSS. That's 21 Hatred attacks per round. Single Handbows aren't as good as the extra hand weapon mainly because you can't re-roll your missed shots, even if there are two of them - and Dual Handbows, even if you could use them are inferior to RXBs in a number of ways.

Mordru · Post by **Mordru** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:33 pm

Corsairs 6-7 wide with the frenzy standard are mostly what you will see in competitive lists when you see corsairs at all. The rhb are sadly lacking.

Post by **Kinslayer** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:46 pm

i dont really see the point in repeater handbows unless you were fielding blocks with 2 hand weapons and a few minimum size handbow units to harry the enemy and cause distractions. So 2 hand weapons for me.

Tethlis · Post by **Tethlis** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:10 pm

Agreed with the two hand weapons. Performs well, keeps things cheap, looks good.

Gastronauticon · Post by **Gastronauticon** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:16 pm

Same here. I play with ye olde 5th ed metal corsairs and given the shoddy rules for the rhb, there is no reason for me to buy the new models...

Faulkynn grom · Post by **Faulkynn grom** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:07 pm

...may swap one HW for RHB for free.
Reaver (Corsair Champ) may take 2 RHBs for 4pts (i think, maybe 2)

So, no uzi elf pirates. Shame, I don't think I'll really have a use for them now.

FG

Alandriakh · Post by **Alandriakh** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:35 am

The only reason i can see for which rhb would be useful is when u use 10 corsairs as a sort of screen (which won't really happen that much, even though i'm going to test it). The no penalty from long range and moving a shooting makes them quite dangerous. With a 4+ save against anything ranged they can be used very well as a sort of screen, a screen which has teeth. They can suddenly move forward 5 inches and send 20 bolts down upon the enemy with only a -1 penalty from multiple shots. And then if they get charged they can stand and shoot, sending another 20 bolts towards a enemy.It is like luring a enemy unit in a sort of ambush. If they get attacked then in most conditons 7 models are able to hit back with re-rolls to hit. Something else i surely like is the combination of corsairs with Lokhir Fellheart. Both their special rules can earn u a lot of victory points so I'm going to test this too in a fun battle. Nonetheless they can still do like they used to do, kick some behind. But to make them frenzy is something from which I doubt it will work. Then again, in a unit of 7*4 backed up with a cauldron of blood, u can have ur choice then, go for 22 atacks with killing blow or for the full 29 attacks, all re-roll to hit. And u can always put a BSB in there with AP or ASF. The unit costs a lot but if they manage to deal out a punch, I don't want to be the ones standing in front of them. And to make sure they don't abuse their frenzy, some units to back them up.

Post by **Calisson** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:22 am

I plan as well to have a single unit of 10 hanbowed corsairs, used to harass the opponent. Less efficient than DR, but cheaper also. The opponent either ignores that unit and gets 20 bolts (only the champ gets its 2nd rhb and I won't waste the points of a champ in such unit), or charge them instead of the more important unit they were escorting.
Alternate use: sorceress baby sitting (with a champ): resilient to shooting, if got charged, it will bolt back 22 bolts and then the champ get the challenge.
Third use: I play often "urban wars" (got plenty of buildings). In a building, the unit is very resistant to shooting, if ever an infantry wants to get them out, they get 10-bolted when they charge (only 5 can shoot from a 1-storey building), if they don't succeed, they are pushed back 1" away, where they got 10-bolted again (with no penalty for charging troops) and they get once more 10-bolted before they can charge again. Ouch.

[llct]kain · Post by **[llct]kain** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:07 am

Currently I do not own the book (have to wait 2 weeks) but I see that a small unit of 10 corsairs with RHB will make it into my list.
I see them a bit of the center to close to the enemy. Lining up in a way that they could "rush" past the enemy if not cared about or flank if the enemy goes by or (most propably) get charged and align the enmy for a flank charge of the spear or elite block.
When closing the enemy the put some hurt into them stealing at least a rank with their no move and no long range penalty.

And with RHB they will make a great bodyguard unit saving your sorceress from long range fire and light/fast troops. Nearly no flyer and no fast cav has a good time when been hit by 10 bolts (20 shots on 4+).

Where I am still not convinced is the role as pure CC troop with 2 hand weapons, but perhaps I havt to try again :-) !?

Cathel · Post by **Cathel** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:13 pm

Did I miss something?
I thought the rhb was to be counted as additional handweapon in close combat.
If so and the exchange is for free...
On the other side the idea of a shoot resilient bodyguard with some cc capability is intriguing.

Mr. anderson · Post by **Mr. anderson** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:28 pm

Cathel wrote:Did I miss something?

Yes... you missed at least half a billion posts saying that they are no additional hand weapons

If they were handweapons, they'd be no brainers, especially if they came for free as well - you'd have to be in a weird state of mind not to take such an option... :lol:

That reminds me of brettonian champions - the AB entry says you have to take one and he is for free, instead of just saying each knight unit comes with a champion...

HUZZAH!

Irtehdar · Post by **Irtehdar** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:52 pm

In our core we have 3 types of infantry which generally serve 3 very distinct purposes.
Spearelves. Defensive block troops.
RxB's. Shooting infantry.
Corsairs. Offensive infantry.
It would seem that the Corsairs loose the edge they have in their field if they take the rhb option and try to double as shooters. Taking the rhb effectively puts them below RxB's in both shooting and CC.
If they could atleast shoot in the same turn they charged I would say that the rhb was a good alternative as it would make their charge stronger but weaken their subsequent turns. But as it is the rhb is just a downgrade. 8 inches... If your that close you want to charge or be charged. Or you screwed up...

Omnichron · Post by **Omnichron** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:06 pm

I agree with what is mentioned above.

What is the role of these rhb corsairs? They can't shoot far, and they don't fight well...

I guess they could be:

1. Meatshields. They can go forth as shields for other units and fire upon your enemy at the same time. When the enemy decides to finally charge you, you get to fire one last time to weaken them even more. I'd love to force my HE elf to charge these with his spearelves.

2. Small harassment units (flanking/flank defenders). I don't know how many of your fights are, but in most of those I participate in, my enemies has often some sort of light cavalery or scouts. Having some small units of these shooting corsairs means that he can't play with my flanks as easily, and have to consider charging them instead of just avoiding them... on the other hand, there are other units that works for this.

I can see them as the first role mostly. Meatshields that have a really defensive role, and is an obstacle for your enemies. You could also use small units of these that are placed so that when the enemy charges them, your block units can get a flank charge. If he doesn't charge them, you can just keep shooting(or charge in combination with other units)

I think I have to play several games with complete armies with and without them to see if I find them useful I guess, but as for now, I have to agree that the rhb corsairs seems a bit... off.

Scactha · Post by **Scactha** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:13 pm

They´re the middlemen. I belive that they could play a useful role as flankers with the rhb. The Slavers rules says support unit to me so I envision them on a flank countering enemy light cavalry, working beside a more heavy hitter like the Hydra, and looking into the main battle line for an opportunity to flank charge. Multi purpose.

Entreri bloodletter · Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:16 pm

And isn't multi purpose the name of the game for the druchii? At least it was for me with the 6th edition book. Everything could at least try to double their uses. Also something not mentioned yet are force multipliers. While one shooting unit or one flanking unit my not be effective, add in 3 or 4 and it is much more effective.

Now I'm not sure how well corsairs work in this regard but it is definitely something to think about. The screen idea also appeals to me a lot, a cheap screen for either witches or black guard, both of which are immune to psych means no panic tests, and limited losses from shooting and magic as well. Just march the corsairs with bows in front of the enemy and fire away, fire again when they charge and then the enemy can either overrun/pursue into your main force(BG with ASF?) or be charged themselves.

Melinia · Post by **Melinia** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:01 am

Mr. Anderson wrote:Yes... you missed at least half a billion posts saying that they are no additional hand weapons If they were handweapons, they'd be no brainers, especially if they came for free as well - you'd have to be in a weird state of mind not to take such an option...

The rank and file corsairs have the option to replace their second hand weapon with the RHB. But from what the book says, it appears that the corsair champion can take two RHBs (giving him multiple shotx4) without replacing his hand weapons.

Narius phinshredder · Post by **Narius phinshredder** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:43 am

I just put together 10 of the new corsairs, all taking the RHB option. THEN decided to carefully rip them apart and replace the RHB's with 2nd hand weapons. I really get the feeling that GW have come up short with the rules concerning them. With 2 hand weapons you could use the Sea Serpent banner for frenzy and use the COB's Fury of Khaine for +1 attack giving each soldier 4 attacks.

OR... use the RHB (Which aren't AP), Can't really use the Sea serpent banner really because the range of the RHB is to short so you'd only be able to use it as a stand and shoot reaction, you'd be forced to charge out of your RHB range. You could still use the COB blessing for +1 attack. There where a lot of rumors early on about the Corsairs being able to deploy like miners, obviously it was dropped (Or just a rumor) this would make loads of sense to the RHB rules, as you'd pop up on a random edge (Preferably behind the enemy) and use a volley from you RHB's at close range into the backs of the emeny! Nice...

Kir · Post by **Kir** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:08 am

10 placed angled with all rhb's and champ with 2 make for charge redirecters with firepower ( stand and shoot ftw

) for relatively few pointsand the exes/BG behind em will be happy at the flank they've been presented. For combat, 2hw stays a must.

Crawd · Post by **Crawd** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:15 am

If I field them, they would be 10 with musician and champion, all with 2 hand weapon, but I would pay the option to the champion to get a pair of handbow.

Gotta love how it's written, so the champion would have 2 hand weapons and 2 handbow.

Narius phinshredder · Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:44 am

Crawd wrote:If I field them, they would be 10 with musician and champion, all with 2 hand weapon, but I would pay the option to the champion to get a pair of handbow.

Gotta love how it's written, so the champion would have 2 hand weapons and 2 handbow.

So the rules say give a pair of handbows to reaver, does this mean he can have RHB's with the rest of unit having 2 handweapons? If so, I take it he still has 2 hand weapons also? This would still only work as a charge reaction if the Sea serpent
banner was used.

Melinia · Post by **Melinia** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:28 pm

Narius Phinshredder wrote:So the rules say give a pair of handbows to reaver, does this mean he can have RHB's with the rest of unit having 2 handweapons? If so, I take it he still has 2 hand weapons also? This would still only work as a charge reaction if the Sea serpent
banner was used.

The list states that you can give the champion 2 RHBs. This appears to be in addition to his normal hand weapons, though someone is disputing that in another thread in the general topic by stating that they believe that he can only take 2 RHBs if the entire unit trades one hand weapon for one RHB.

Moonblade · Post by **Moonblade** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:50 pm

An interesting point. Someone with the new book confirm the exact wording? Or maybe someone from the testers may help us out with this issue. I don't really see myself taking advantage of such exploit anyway, because I will use corsairs mostly with the Frenzy banner and so they'll be pretty busy with charging stuff.

I'm not sure if I understood that statement correctly:

This would still only work as a charge reaction if the Sea serpent
banner was used.

- Care to explain?