How to make an all cavalry list work...

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

Moderators: Layne, The Dread Knights

User avatar
Yourmumrang
Noble
Posts: 453
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:10 am

How to make an all cavalry list work...

Post by Yourmumrang »

Hey all,

I've been toying with a balanced list lately but you know, I really like the idea (and models) of multiple units of CoK. So much so in fact I may drop my balanced lists for a list that is HEAVY on CoK. The only problem is I have no idea about how to create such a list!!

One thing you need to do is sort out stupidity so the Cold Blooded banner and Malus come to the fore as excellent choices.

You also need to set up your CoK for their charges so Harpies and Dark Riders are perfect.

Again, Hydras in your rares seem perfect.

But here are my questions:

- You'd need to go character light to have the points for so many Knights which isn't that much of a problem considering they pack an almighty wallop without characters! But what characters would suit an army like this?

- How many units of CoK would be best?

- What configuration would be needed?

I was going to post a list in the relevant section but I think I need to scoop up some intel!
User avatar
Kinslayer
Roleplaying Deity
Roleplaying Deity
Posts: 4577
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:50 am
Location: Roleplaying Forum

Post by Kinslayer »

perhaps your character setup could be (assuming malus is a hero choice i dont remember, i thoiught morathi malekith shadowblade and hellebronw were the lords)

Dreadlord with lance and cheap armour
idea is to keep him alive, lance for hitting power, cheap as possible. He is there for the ld10.

Malus
obvious reasons

Master BSB - cold blooded banner
again, obvious choice with the banner

Sorceress lvl 1 - dark steed - 2 scrolls
magic defence



Right, then you need your cavalry which i would make up as:

10 knights
10 knights
5 knights
5 knights
5 dark riders
5 dark riders
[i] two solid hitting units with malus in one and bsb in one, and two smaller units to take on smaller enemies. Dark riders work as screens and flankers.

and then:
6 harpys
6 harpys
war hydra


something like that, perhaps
Gustav
Dark Rider
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:56 am

Post by Gustav »

i think 3 units of 6 its a nice number what i usually use.

i also think that a sorceress on dark peggie might be worth getting, or a manticore rider.

A lot of dark riders for screens and flankers. I've thought of doing the all mounted list a few times but like our infantry choices to much.
User avatar
Elfik
Assassin
Posts: 531
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:24 am
Location: Victoria, BC, on the Western shores of the New World

Post by Elfik »

Master BSB - cold blooded banner
again, obvious choice with the banner

You don't need the BSB to take the blood banner on CoKs, and you should never need to re-roll break tests with CoKs. The BSBs mobility is also wasted since it's a one-use banner. I'm guessing you suggest this because then you can also have the standard of slaughter on your CoKs. Fair enough, but it's expensive.

So to save points I think you should either take:
-a dreadlord for ld10
-or Malus, and possibly the BSB with blood banner
People say "insert problem" but it's better to say "insert improvement"
User avatar
Yourmumrang
Noble
Posts: 453
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:10 am

Post by Yourmumrang »

I've been thinking 2 units of 7 and one unit of 6 accompanied by Malus. One other has the Banner so that only one of my units will be taking Stupidity tests.

I would either go max magic or no magic in this list and max on defensive items.
User avatar
Poisonblade
Beastmaster
Posts: 377
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2002 2:48 pm
Location: USA

Post by Poisonblade »

YourMumRang wrote:I've been thinking 2 units of 7 and one unit of 6 accompanied by Malus. One other has the Banner so that only one of my units will be taking Stupidity tests.


Sidenote: I like how your forum title is currently "Cold One Knight"... very fitting.

I've been thinking about a similar list. The idea I was kicking around was something along the lines of:

Dreadlord on Cold One (PoK and a magic weapon of your choice)
Malus
BsB with Hydra Banner on Cold one

6 CoK, full command
6 CoK, full command
6 CoK, full command, with cold blooded banner (BSB goes in here)

Hydra
Hydra
5 DR
5 DR
5 DR
5 harpies
5 harpies
small unit of shades
N(5 DR)

N= however many you can fit

That gives you 3 relatively reliable (LD10, immune to stupidity, and cold blooded banner) CoK units that all hit very hard.

I think you could get by with minimal magic defense if you take a RoH somewhere and a few nullshards. Your army will be extremely fast and hopefully you can kill a few casters early or at least get them in combat.

Throw in your preferences for magic banners too if points allow it. I haven't done the math, but that seems like it will be close to 2250.
Hate is my weapon.
Decker_cky
Black Guard
Posts: 277
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 7:55 am

Post by Decker_cky »

What about a unit of 7 or 8 with full command and Malus, a unit of 7 or 8 with full commnad, cold blooded banner and a BSB with the hydra banner, and 2 units of 5. Support with a caddy sorceress hidden somewhere, and the ring of hotek on a champion. You get a reliable pair of units that can smash through anything, and an overall fast, hitty army.
User avatar
Mordru
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 1060
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2002 5:07 am
Location: Plotting the return of the Cult of Pleasure

Post by Mordru »

When you say all mounted list do you mean no chariots?

To make this type of list more viable I would suggest 1-3 units of 6-7 CoKs, one regular chariot in the remaining special splot and one chariot as a mount for a noble. This gives you much more hittng power over a smaller frontage than just CoKs alone. Are you going to include hydras?

You should closely consider a unit of dark riders with shields.
To strive, to persevere, to conquer.
User avatar
Macknight
Beastmaster
Posts: 325
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 4:57 am
Location: McAllen, Texas
Contact:

Post by Macknight »

i made a list base on some of the suggestions here:

malus darkblade-275

master-214
BSB, hydra banner, CO, SDC, HA, beastmaster's scourage

sorceress-157
lifetaker, tome of furion, dark steed

dark riders-110
x5, rxb

dark riders-110
x5, rxb

dark riders-110
x5, rxb

harpies-66
x6

shades-102
x6, xhw

COK-262
x6, FC, standard of hag graef, ring of hotek

COK-242
x6, FC, banner of cold blood, pearl of infinite bleakness

COK-252
x6, FC, standard of slaughter, null talisman

war hydra-175

war hydra-175

total-2250

lack some magic protection, but its fast, with ring of hotek around you should ware off most magic.
"It's hell of a thing to kill a man, you take away all he's got, and all he's ever gonna."

Lord of Gluttony, former active member of the 7.
Voidmaster
Slave (off the Altar)
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 3:11 am
Location: Voidlands

Post by Voidmaster »

Heres what I field in a tipical matchup, shrinking it when needed for smaller matches, like running noting on the units (CoK and DR+Xbow) for ~1250 total. Remember nothing listed here is cut and dry for me, I allways change something up on my list to help keep an unknown factor in it. So use your imagination, overall I love runing this list...in "freindly" games...

*thanks Poisonblade for a good roster setup*

Dreadlord on Dragon (PoK, AoES)
BsB with Hydra Banner on Cold one
Sorceress vairys to much to tell
Assasin(s)*

6 CoK, full command or CoC or 5 shades*
6 CoK, full command or CoC or 5 shades*
6 CoK, full command
6 CoK, full command
6 CoK, full command, (BSB goes in here)

5 DR, Mu, Xbow
5 DR, Mu, Xbow
5 DR, Mu, Xbow
5 DR, Mu, Xbow

6 harpies
6 harpies

Hydra
Hydra

*if so wished I may add assasins, sometimes using them to cover the CoK that went stupid. Thinking of trying a Dreadlord...on foot, using the twilight to move him about !lol! .

Edit: fixed as posted below.
Last edited by Voidmaster on Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, NO! . From now on, no one is allowed to mention Slaanesh in the same sentance as a unit that has a rule allowing it to stuff units down its trousers."
-Tastyfish

http://world7.monstersgame.co.uk/?ac=vid&vid=113074506
User avatar
Mordru
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 1060
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2002 5:07 am
Location: Plotting the return of the Cult of Pleasure

Post by Mordru »

@Voidmaster

You've got yourself 7 specials in that list and 4 core. What points level are you playing?
To strive, to persevere, to conquer.
Voidmaster
Slave (off the Altar)
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 3:11 am
Location: Voidlands

Post by Voidmaster »

@Voidmaster

You've got yourself 7 specials in that list and 4 core. What points level are you playing?

Edited it:
LOL, I lost track of what army list I was useing, combinding army list is not a good thing...I am like a dog chasing cars, I would not know what to do with one if I cought it. :oops:
"FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, NO! . From now on, no one is allowed to mention Slaanesh in the same sentance as a unit that has a rule allowing it to stuff units down its trousers."
-Tastyfish

http://world7.monstersgame.co.uk/?ac=vid&vid=113074506
User avatar
Yourmumrang
Noble
Posts: 453
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:10 am

Post by Yourmumrang »

Dark Elves only have 4 Specials you know :P

As for me, I'd likely go much more minimal on characters and boost my CoK lists using standards and magic items. That way the points are spread between them all. Something like:

- 7 CoK: Musician - Champ w/ Ring of Hotek - Standard w/ Banner of Murder
(So these hit nice and hard thanks to the Standard and also provide some magical protection)

- 7 CoK: Musician - Champ w/ Crimson Death - Standard w/ Banner of Cold Blood
(A mini-hero in the Champ keeps their hitty power and the Banner makes sure they get to use him)

- 6 CoK: Musician - Champ w/ Null Talisman - Standard w/ Banner of Hag Graef/Slaughter
(Malus rides with these boys and so they have a little more defense against magic and whichever Banner you boys think is best)


After that I'd take a Sorceress w/ Scrolls, 3 x 5 Dark Riders, 4 x 5 Harpies, 2 Hydras and then either a Chariot or some Shades.
User avatar
Poisonblade
Beastmaster
Posts: 377
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2002 2:48 pm
Location: USA

Post by Poisonblade »

Looks pretty solid.

Personally, I like the ASF with Malus. It's the only time I think I'd take ASF banner on CoK. That would be a nasty suprise for any enemy cav that manages to charge you.
Hate is my weapon.
User avatar
Yourmumrang
Noble
Posts: 453
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:10 am

Post by Yourmumrang »

In fact, what do you think of an army like this?

Characters:
Malus Darkblade @ 275pts
Sorceress: 2 Scrolls @ 150pts

Core:
5 Dark Riders: Crossbows - Musician @ 117pts
5 Dark Riders: Crossbows - Musician @ 117pts
5 Dark Riders: Crossbows - Musician @ 117pts
5 Harpies @ 55pts
5 Harpies @ 55pts
5 Harpies @ 55pts
5 Harpies @ 55pts

Special:
7 Cold One Knights: Standard w/ Banner of Murder - Champion w/ Ring of Hotek @ 271pts
6 Cold One Knights: Standard w/ Banner of Hag Graef - Champion w/ Null Talisman @ 244pts
7 Cold One Knights: Standard w/ Banner of Cold Blood - Champion w/ Crimson Death @ 261pts
7 Shades: Great Weapons @ 126pts

Rare:
Hydra @ 175pts
Hydra @ 175pts

2248pts
User avatar
Joyfulcheese
Dark Rider
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:44 am
Location: Right behind you...

Post by Joyfulcheese »

Why not combine the harpies into 2 x 10 units?
"Beware the fury of a patient man"

Utharn N'Gal - Disciple of Khaine

Stats: WS - 4 S - 3 I - 5 T - 2 D - 4

Equipment - Short Sword, dagger, small quantity of poison (2 uses), travelling cloak
User avatar
Yourmumrang
Noble
Posts: 453
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:10 am

Post by Yourmumrang »

Any particular reason to do that?
User avatar
Lamekh
The Scourge of Khaine
Posts: 1208
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:33 am
Location: Raiding Ulthuan and eating Cheese near Rottenburg

Post by Lamekh »

None :D

How about using a big unit of (12) Coks and 2 small units of 5, with only musicians in them?

I'd also incude a couple of hunting nobles on dark steeds like:
Master - DS,SDC,HA,Shield,Caledors Bane,Null Shard
Master - DS,SDC,HA,Shield,Lance,Potion of Strength,Null Shard
User avatar
Yourmumrang
Noble
Posts: 453
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:10 am

Post by Yourmumrang »

Yeah, that certainly is an idea but I liked the idea of the CoK representing Malus' Warband. You know, the ones who smash through entire armies!
User avatar
Greynightmare
Warrior
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:55 pm
Location: United Kingdom, England

Post by Greynightmare »

:) thx YMR, thats helped a fair bit :D... would anyone suggest taking chariots or are they fairly expensive/pointless?

Edit: + what is the new hyrdra's movement I'm gusssing its 6?
Currently... On Campaign please leave your message after the tone and my cold one will get back to you... RAWR!!!
User avatar
Yourmumrang
Noble
Posts: 453
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:10 am

Post by Yourmumrang »

Correct. Chariots definately have a place! You get a strong hitter on a small space.

Essentially, my list uses Hydra to do the same job.

The way I see my list working is that I need to be able to bring the cav to bear where I need them and when. This is why I have so many support units!

Those CoK can smash through almost anything (Hatred usually means only 1 or 2 misses - usually for me all hit!) but there are only 3 units. So your Harpies are there to slow the enemy, redirect and bait. The Dark Riders are there for that too but I prefer them to take out support units and prepare flank charges. The Shades do what they are meant to do and they will butcher enemies with their GW's. They Hydras are troubleshooters and fire-magnets :D
User avatar
Tolkar of har ganeth
Dark Rider
Posts: 132
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:51 pm
Location: Lelystad (Holland)

Post by Tolkar of har ganeth »

I don't think that the crimson death you gave a champion would do much good. Seeing the fact that the guy already attacks with S6 on the charge. I would suggest the null shard instead, to give you some extra protection against magic.

Maybe a strange suggestion for an all cavalry force, but what about a cauldron of blood. The thing itself has inbuild magical defence, ward save and some strong crew, so it wouldn't be easily destroyed. And seeing the fact that it's stubborn, it won't flee very fast. But it can change a charge of heavy cavalry into a charge that hits harder than chosen knights of chaos! The option to get an extra attack on one of your most important charges can really tip thing in your favour. And the option to give a unit a 5+ ward save can mean the difference between a whole unit reaching the enemy or only a shot down remnance of a unit. I think it's worth considering even thoug it's not a cavalry model.

Greetz, Tolkar.
KILL!!!
User avatar
Greynightmare
Warrior
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:55 pm
Location: United Kingdom, England

Post by Greynightmare »

YourMumRang wrote:Correct. Chariots definately have a place! You get a strong hitter on a small space.

Essentially, my list uses Hydra to do the same job.

The way I see my list working is that I need to be able to bring the cav to bear where I need them and when. This is why I have so many support units!

Those CoK can smash through almost anything (Hatred usually means only 1 or 2 misses - usually for me all hit!) but there are only 3 units. So your Harpies are there to slow the enemy, redirect and bait. The Dark Riders are there for that too but I prefer them to take out support units and prepare flank charges. The Shades do what they are meant to do and they will butcher enemies with their GW's. They Hydras are troubleshooters and fire-magnets :D


Ah lol nice idea, ye I guess chariots aren't great at soaking up fire as strength 7* and POP, 100ish points gone eh?

*edit
Last edited by Greynightmare on Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Currently... On Campaign please leave your message after the tone and my cold one will get back to you... RAWR!!!
User avatar
Poisonblade
Beastmaster
Posts: 377
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2002 2:48 pm
Location: USA

Post by Poisonblade »

I like the list, but I would really try to squeeze a BSB with the Hydra banner in there. Maybe dropping Crimson Death and a few Cold Ones/Shades?

Hydra Banner on Cold Ones is just plain murder, you will mow down just about any infantry in the game.
Hate is my weapon.
User avatar
Yourmumrang
Noble
Posts: 453
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:10 am

Post by Yourmumrang »

Heck, almost anything in the game!

Rather than talk about my list, let's discuss some of the things you need for a cav army to work. Here's a few I can think of:

- You need to control the enemy movement so you can bring your Knights to bear.
- You NEED something to mitigate Stupidity.
- You need some insurance in case you don't break the enemy (IE Crimson Death for S6 in round 2).

I think the Hydra Banner is great but I prefer to spread my power around.
Post Reply