Viability of a no magic list?

[Master khethil]

Hi.

I'm still at the theoretical stage, but I'm thinking of trying a no magic list and I wondered if anyone had any experience of this? I can see the DE magic is very good, but it is also very expensive and I'd prefer to sink points into more crazed killers elsewhere. This is the general idea of what I'm heading towards currently:

Dreadlord, Armor of Darkness (1+ save), Pendent of Khaleth, Soul Render, Handbow

Death Hag, Cauldron of Blood

Master, BSB, Cold One, Heavy Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Lance, 2 x Null Shards, Enchanted Shield

10 Corsairs with Handbows
10 Corsairs with Handbows
5 Dark Riders, Mus, 5 x RXB
6 x Harpy
6 x Harpy

5 Shades, GW
9 Shades, GW
5 COK, FC, Banner of murder
17 BG, FC, Banner of Hag Graef, Ring of Hotek on Champ

War Hydra and Handlers

Total = 1999


I'm not expecting to play it against the more heinous lists out there, but to me it looks like its not too bad, provided I don't come up against too many gunlines. Does anyone have an opinion or some advice on this matter? I'd be glad to hear it.

MK


Edited for list improvement.

[Kensou]

i'd say give the ring to the COK or BG champion and give the DL the seal of ghrond. That way you'll also have an extra DD.

[Master khethil]

Thats a very good suggestion.

[Irtehdar]

I wouldnt put handbows on corsairs. Corsairs are a CC unit. If I wanted shooting I would aim for RxB warriors instead. Corsairs loose too much close combat power if equipped with the inferior handbow.
And the Hydra Banner? +5 attacks to 1 unit for 1 round. Doesnt seem like the best way to spend those pts if you ask me.
Im asuming your Dreadlord is going to be in the BG unit? if that is the case give him Ring of Darkness and you just upped your potential against shooty lists a good deal.

Other than that I would say it looks like a solid list. Its not that far from something I would happily play with. Looks like a well thought out army.

[Master khethil]

Thanks for that, good advice in there.

The hydrabanner point is a good one. I think sometimes players get blinded by what could happen - I see only a turn in which the CoK and BSB charge something after being blessed by the Cauldron! I do want a BSB though, so I might look at reducing his cost a touch and maybe adding to the harpy units for screening purposes.

I have given the dreadlord the pendant as I want to be able to challenge out the big nasties like BT's so they won't sully the armor of my BG. Is the RoD also a talisman? I thought it was the very tempting half WS and BS one, which I'd go for perhaps if I did not want a guy on foot and had to make him as survivable as possible.

As for the corsairs, its more of a style thing than pure efficacy. I like the idea of elven pirates, and I think that they can actually do a fair bit of damage to T3 lists on turn 2, provided the enemy moves. RXB are much less likely to hit (although can hit sooner) and don't look quite so cool. Plus I get to shoot on turn 2 and then can SaS if I'm charged for quite a bit of damage. I really like the idea of them, though if I wanted just pure stats I'd have more DR.

[PrinceDarien]

I like this list. Anything without magic gets props in my book. I'm almost as much of a magic skeptic as the dwarves!

[Drek]

There's quite a few Dragon/Manti/2 Hydra lists running around. We'll see how they do. Personally, if I was doing a list that, a few items would be essential:
-Seal of Ghrond
-Ring of Hotek
-a Null shard here or there

With those, I think you can get enough magic defense to get by. But it remains to be seen whether this list will hold up over time.

[Warpaintoz]

I think more than being viable, it may well be the better way to build. Given that Null Shards are so cheap and the Ring of Hotek is so effective, I'd imagine you could easily put a strong list together.

I'd also add that (in Australia at least) many players consider magic an unreliable strategy to base an army around anyway, meaning that here at least the threat of magic won't be as strong!

[Mordru]

If you play in a low magic environment you should be fine. Against a lot of DoC and VC lists you will be in trouble. I think even the high elves with a prominent magic phase could give you lots of trouble.

The reason you will struggle is that you do not have enough units tailored to taking out opposing magic. One unit of dark riders and two units of harpies is unlikely to get it done. A canny opponent will quikly realize that the Ring of Hotek is on your on foot general and concetrate spells on the elements of your army that will not be in range of the ring.

You need more mage hunting capability and the ability to get the ring next to the enemy casters to make this work reliably in my opinion.

[Calisson]

see:
Optimized, low magic..........DE 2250 Tourney - Undefeated
No magic...........................No magic! Version 2.0

I updated the D.R.A.I.C.H. with your thread as well, in addition to the two above-mentioned.
Hopefully, it will become a reference and will become a part of Nightblade183's D.R.A.I.C.H. Classic Army Lists

[Joyfulcheese]

Handbows are underrated. With no penalty for moving, multiple shots or stand and shoot and the ability to stand and shoot no matter how far away they are they can be quite useful for taking down a few enemies who are about to charge you. Give the banner that gives them frenzy and you make up for the lost attack.

[Nightblade183]

For the record I am working on the Classic Army List section, it's just taking a little longer than I thought. I'm playtesting a no magic build right now with a dragon two hydras and a lot of cold ones and DRs. If anyone else is playing well with a nonmagic list I'd like to here about it otherwise I think I will use my own experience and the two posted by Calisson as reference tools. Good Luck with your list, and please let us know how it performs. Cheers! - Nighty

[PrinceDarien]

Handbows are underrated. With no penalty for moving, multiple shots or stand and shoot and the ability to stand and shoot no matter how far away they are they can be quite useful for taking down a few enemies who are about to charge you. Give the banner that gives them frenzy and you make up for the lost attack.

It's an interesting idea. I'll try it out next game. What turns me off to handbows are the restrictive range and the lack of armor piercing.

About the only feasible thing you can do with them is stand and shoot, since once you're within 8" you're probably going in for the charge.

I always invest in the double handbows for my Reaver though. It comes in handy.

[Blueon462]

I've been running a lvl 1 scroll caddy x2 scrolls + ring of hotek which has worked quite nicely.