As promised. Been tinkering, no games yet. I going to start assembling this army and then modify as needed. Already own 90% of the models but most are not even assembled. Gonna take a long time to get it ready.
Looking for tweaks mostly. I think the SS equipment is a no-brainer. the master might get some tweaks. The ring seems so cool because it helps the manti too (fear the skinks!) but then there are so many options.
Dragon Sorceress All Beast2250 Pts - Dark Elves Army
Supreme Sorceress @ 680 Pts
General; Magic Level 4
Pendant of Khaeleth
Focus Familiar
Dispel Scroll
Soulrender
Black Dragon @ [320] Pts
Master @ 375 Pts
Lance; Paired repeaters; HA; SDC; BSB
Ring of Darkness
Manticore
2 War Hydra @ 175 Pts each
5 Dark Riders @ 145 Pts
RCBs FC
5 Dark Riders @ 85 Pts
5 Dark Riders @ 85 Pts
7 Harpies @ 77 Pts
6 Cold One Knights @ 252 Pts
FC, Ring of Hotek, Banner of AP
2 Cold One Chariot @ 100 Pts each
Casting Pool: 6
Dispel Pool: 4
1 dispell
Models in Army: 40
Total Army Cost: 2249
Clearly in the current ubermagic environment I'm going to have to blitz most armies.
Story-wise, I've had this vision in my head since the 6th ed book came out of playing extreme Karond Kar. The fluff is beastly all mounted army that moves quickly through the countryside living off the land (and landowners) sans baggage train popping up here and there traveling through the roughs by night and ambushing at dawn. I could probably justify using a unit of shades if needed because they should be able to keep up and could help with small game and direction. I have mixed feelings about the chariots because of the wheels limiting army travel but on the other hand they can also act as carts, might model them with some half-eaten carcasses. Alternatively my old plan was to model them as mounted beasts instead of actual chariots. Something generally ponderous with a quick charge like giant gators or rhinos so it fits with the no-marching and impact hits mechanic but I already have the chariots sitting around waiting for assembly and they look so cool and would help me finish sooner. Visually I'd love to have more harpies because I think they will look good on a display with the monsters.
Strategy-wise I've tried to stay on-theme while still being competitive. I've tried to make it strong VS what I think will be the most difficult foes and weaker VS the easy. The problem is some foes will just crumble to the 4 terror-causes and movement dominance while other armies like gunlines, magic heavy VC and nurgle demons might just wreck me. I'd like to test it against a good Bretonian and a good WE to see how well I can do. I would feel bad for O+G player. Against an extreme gunline without very favorable terrain I'm basically screwed but I don't see any good ways to further mitigate that. I actually think the CoKs are a weakness but the theme demands them and they seem like a good repository for the Ring of Hotek which seems necessary. Alternatively the BSB could carry it along with magic armour instead of the Ring of Missing. Tough call.
Not sure about the DR config either. Seems one with rxb is a good idea and also seems one Standard is good (so little static CR in army) but not sure if they should go together and not sure if the champ is good. By ditching both I could squeeze in a few more harpies. I think the harpies might be good and keeping them above US5 might be critical (so they can hit the flank of a dragon or demon for CR while my manti or dragon challenges). I fige two nekkid units of DR can try to bait and flee or sacrifice while the expensive one with rxbs, champ, and banner tries to only enter winning fights but not sure if that ill work. I like interchangable units.
I think the army provides a lot of tactical possibilities: Points denial, blitz, elaborate fients, surgical strikes... I'm hoping enemy mages will have a very hard time staying out of combat.
Comments appreciated.
DoS
Supreme Beasts
Moderator: The Dread Knights
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Duke of swords
- Black Guard
- Posts: 290
- Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:05 am
No responses, huh?
Played three games today. Crushed errantry list (opponent new to brets). Crushed a decent doombull list, and had a close loss vs Teclis. Without ring of Hotek I would have been toast!
The addition of hatred makes dark riders better than ever and they've always been good. The re-roll on horse and rider just makes them capable of so much more than before.
The BSB on manti with ring of darkness rules (except when lucky HE archers pick him off).
I already tweaked the list a bit. got rid of the champ and standard in DR and added musicians and one more set of rxbs and only 5 harpies.
I'm going to tweak it a tad more but the overall list is really working for me.
DoS
Played three games today. Crushed errantry list (opponent new to brets). Crushed a decent doombull list, and had a close loss vs Teclis. Without ring of Hotek I would have been toast!
The addition of hatred makes dark riders better than ever and they've always been good. The re-roll on horse and rider just makes them capable of so much more than before.
The BSB on manti with ring of darkness rules (except when lucky HE archers pick him off).
I already tweaked the list a bit. got rid of the champ and standard in DR and added musicians and one more set of rxbs and only 5 harpies.
I'm going to tweak it a tad more but the overall list is really working for me.
DoS
Then you don't have any needs for help?
The list is a bit small, you are lacking in heavy hitters, but the chariots will be good i suppose. In my tournament environment there are so many str 7 flying around that my chariots are either hiding or reduced to kindling.
The Mantimaster BSB looks very unprotected. He only got a +4/3 save and no ward/regen. And on top of that on a potentially frenzied large monster without armor. I would at least given him the enchanted shield for a +2/1 save.
The list is a bit small, you are lacking in heavy hitters, but the chariots will be good i suppose. In my tournament environment there are so many str 7 flying around that my chariots are either hiding or reduced to kindling.
The Mantimaster BSB looks very unprotected. He only got a +4/3 save and no ward/regen. And on top of that on a potentially frenzied large monster without armor. I would at least given him the enchanted shield for a +2/1 save.
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Duke of swords
- Black Guard
- Posts: 290
- Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:05 am
The master get heavy armor plus shield and SDC which gives him 2+ vs missiles and 3+ HTH. I think the ring of darkness might actually be better protection than most items. Need to do some math on that. In my game vs HE he had three bolt throwers and the manti got shot a lot and I think the ring did cause a lot of misses.
If you are right and some other kind of D is better then maybe he could also carry the ring of hotek and save my problem with the CoK.
I have found the manti+dragon+hydra charge is good even when the master is dead (from lucky HE archer shots but they did lose to a unit of 15 white lions with the banner of losing frenzy and hatred PLUS a BSB with the banner of D6 CR. that made me sad. That was the game I losr but at least my chariots got to butcher Teclis on turn 6.
Will post a revision soon.
If you are right and some other kind of D is better then maybe he could also carry the ring of hotek and save my problem with the CoK.
I have found the manti+dragon+hydra charge is good even when the master is dead (from lucky HE archer shots but they did lose to a unit of 15 white lions with the banner of losing frenzy and hatred PLUS a BSB with the banner of D6 CR. that made me sad. That was the game I losr but at least my chariots got to butcher Teclis on turn 6.
Will post a revision soon.
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Duke of swords
- Black Guard
- Posts: 290
- Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:05 am
So I have about 8 games with the list so far and still tweaking....
Supreme Beast 9-4-08
2250 Pts - Dark Elves Army
Supreme Sorceress @ 665 Pts
General; Magic Level 4, Pendant of Khaeleth, Focus Familiar, Dispel Scroll
Black Dragon
Master @ 375 Pts
Lance; Rptr Handbow Pair; Heavy Armour; Sea Dragon Cloak; Shield; Battle
Standard; Ring of Darkness; Manticore
2 War Hydra @ 175 Pts each
5 Dark Riders @ 145 Pts
Repeaters; Standard; Musician; Herald
5 Dark Riders @ 117 Pts
Musician; Repeaters
5 Dark Riders @ 92 Pts
Musician
7 Harpies @ 77 Pts
6 Cold One Knights @ 227 Pts
Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician
Dread Knight; Ring of Hotek
2 Cold One Chariot @ 100 Pts each
Casting Pool: 6
Dispel Pool: 4
Models in Army: 40
Total Army Cost: 2248
It's working very well. I have one loss to Teclis and one loss to Deathstar.
I had the ASF banner on the knights until this weekend which means no standard or champ in the one unit of DR and no musician on one unit of DR. Not sure I like the change as there is a LOT of ASF out there but the banner and champ in DR also has it's uses in combined charges keeping my big monsters out of challenges.
I'm still considering dropping the Ring of Darkness to move the Ring of hotek to the manti but having it on the knights has put it in good position most games. The knights don't take as much fire as I expected because there are so many other targets. My opponents took a while to learn to injure the hydras with potshots to avoid S5 fire breath.
The list is really fun to play. It breaks one of my basic rules of army construction which is go either magic overload or magic defense only. This "medium magic" is of mixed use. I will probably never do magic overload with the new DE due to miscasts. With 6 dice I can maybe sneak in one spell here and there when it counts. Yes, the ring of Hotek has gotten in my way plenty of times but it's just too good not to have. Neuters Teclis which is fun (can you tell one of my regular opponents is really into Teclis right now?) Also really helps against demons.
The list is surprizingly flexible. Frontal assault is an option but against super tough units I can still dance.
I'm strongly considering squeezing in a unit of shades. This would boost my missile phase quite a bit and give me a potential scout unit. I could easily give up the harpies. They look cool and fit the theme but don't seem to be pulling their weight. It could just be the opponents I'm facing but I think they are just too soft for the rest of the list. I might change my mind if I start facing cannons. On second thought I think I just talked myself into keeping them ;-)
Overall there is a little less punch than having a dreadlord on the dragon. I can't rush in to challenge just any old character and her extra cost forces me to be leaner elsewhere but I feel a lot less pressure to hit turn 2.
I'd like to include some battle reports but so far I've been facing folks that want to keep their army details on the QT.
DoS
Supreme Beast 9-4-08
2250 Pts - Dark Elves Army
Supreme Sorceress @ 665 Pts
General; Magic Level 4, Pendant of Khaeleth, Focus Familiar, Dispel Scroll
Black Dragon
Master @ 375 Pts
Lance; Rptr Handbow Pair; Heavy Armour; Sea Dragon Cloak; Shield; Battle
Standard; Ring of Darkness; Manticore
2 War Hydra @ 175 Pts each
5 Dark Riders @ 145 Pts
Repeaters; Standard; Musician; Herald
5 Dark Riders @ 117 Pts
Musician; Repeaters
5 Dark Riders @ 92 Pts
Musician
7 Harpies @ 77 Pts
6 Cold One Knights @ 227 Pts
Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician
Dread Knight; Ring of Hotek
2 Cold One Chariot @ 100 Pts each
Casting Pool: 6
Dispel Pool: 4
Models in Army: 40
Total Army Cost: 2248
It's working very well. I have one loss to Teclis and one loss to Deathstar.
I had the ASF banner on the knights until this weekend which means no standard or champ in the one unit of DR and no musician on one unit of DR. Not sure I like the change as there is a LOT of ASF out there but the banner and champ in DR also has it's uses in combined charges keeping my big monsters out of challenges.
I'm still considering dropping the Ring of Darkness to move the Ring of hotek to the manti but having it on the knights has put it in good position most games. The knights don't take as much fire as I expected because there are so many other targets. My opponents took a while to learn to injure the hydras with potshots to avoid S5 fire breath.
The list is really fun to play. It breaks one of my basic rules of army construction which is go either magic overload or magic defense only. This "medium magic" is of mixed use. I will probably never do magic overload with the new DE due to miscasts. With 6 dice I can maybe sneak in one spell here and there when it counts. Yes, the ring of Hotek has gotten in my way plenty of times but it's just too good not to have. Neuters Teclis which is fun (can you tell one of my regular opponents is really into Teclis right now?) Also really helps against demons.
The list is surprizingly flexible. Frontal assault is an option but against super tough units I can still dance.
I'm strongly considering squeezing in a unit of shades. This would boost my missile phase quite a bit and give me a potential scout unit. I could easily give up the harpies. They look cool and fit the theme but don't seem to be pulling their weight. It could just be the opponents I'm facing but I think they are just too soft for the rest of the list. I might change my mind if I start facing cannons. On second thought I think I just talked myself into keeping them ;-)
Overall there is a little less punch than having a dreadlord on the dragon. I can't rush in to challenge just any old character and her extra cost forces me to be leaner elsewhere but I feel a lot less pressure to hit turn 2.
I'd like to include some battle reports but so far I've been facing folks that want to keep their army details on the QT.
DoS
Interesting List DoS!
I have been thinking about a secondary list similar, but a little more aggressive.
Now I do see a certain synergy in the list which I'm sure you have found out by playing right now. The only "tweak" I see that stands out in my mind is the command of the one dark rider unit. From running multiple DR's myself, I know they only do well in combat with combined charges. Even then things can go wrong with those cursed little cubes, so I see a banner in the DR's as free VP's IMHO.
Where could those extra points be re-allocated? I would either put the Lizardman LD banner or the Warbanner on the Cold One Knights. One makes them more reliable while the other makes them able to take a charge from a non-elite foot unit and stay. I lean to the LD banner cause stupidity has bitten me before many a time, but that's just my luck, I'm sure yours is better. =)
I have been thinking about a secondary list similar, but a little more aggressive.
Now I do see a certain synergy in the list which I'm sure you have found out by playing right now. The only "tweak" I see that stands out in my mind is the command of the one dark rider unit. From running multiple DR's myself, I know they only do well in combat with combined charges. Even then things can go wrong with those cursed little cubes, so I see a banner in the DR's as free VP's IMHO.
Where could those extra points be re-allocated? I would either put the Lizardman LD banner or the Warbanner on the Cold One Knights. One makes them more reliable while the other makes them able to take a charge from a non-elite foot unit and stay. I lean to the LD banner cause stupidity has bitten me before many a time, but that's just my luck, I'm sure yours is better. =)